BMW 335i 2007+

xeye

Unfortunately, Mr. Wizard, experience dictates otherwise.

shipo

Sorry, I need to call your bluff on this one. Would you please explain the physics of how AWD negates the lifting effect of hydroplaning. I just don't get it. :confuse:

Best Regards,
Shipo

roadburner

You just have a better chance if this situation occurs in the xdrive given its capability to switch power to the wheels with traction.

I don't dispute that statement, assuming one or more tires DOES have traction. What I dispute is the mystical belief that AWD somehow prevents a tire from hydroplaning. Let's assume that you have two vehicles that are completely identical save that one is RWD and one is AWD. Identical weight, weight distribution, tires, and wheels. If the RWD car hydroplanes, so will the AWD car. The only difference will be that the AWD car can distribute power to any wheels that may have traction.

roadburner

I just don't get it.

I'm with you. Aside from the previously mentioned 4Runner traction tests I have yet to find any basis in fact for the belief that AWD prevents hydroplaning. For that matter, I've observed that my Jeep TJ will hydroplane in both RWD AND 4WD.
So it appears that the score is tied- at least with regards to the results of controlled and repeatable scientific tests.

circlew

Agreed. Hydroplanning happens despite AWD, RWD or FWD. AWD doesn't prevent hydroplaning, it gives you an edge by finding the best traction situation.

IMHO, AWD is better for low traction conditions over 2 driven wheels given changing conditions on all 4 corners.

Thus, in a hydroplaning situation, the 335xi will "find" a better traction opportunity given a changing velocity condition.

Respectful regards,
OW

roadburner

Agreed.

fedlawman

Phew. I'm glad that's settled...

So have any of you bought what is probably the single best performance upgrade for the E90?

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=33920335

roadburner

So have any of you bought what is probably the single best performance upgrade for the E90?

The lack of a limited slip option was the primary factor that discouraged me from waiting for the upcoming 135i(well, that and a nagging concern about the oil temperature issue). I can't understand why Munich won't at least make a LSD optional on non- ///M cars. If Mazda can make a LSD standard on a $23K hot hatch BMW should at least be able to offer the same feature on the 3er.

nyccarguy

So have you gotten used to a front driver yet? Is the torquesteer manageable?

dhanley

"Hydroplaning takes place when a tire is lifted off the road by a wedge of water getting trapped under the leading edge of the tire as it travels through a puddle of water. "

Right. So i'm glad we both agree that this is what causes hydroplaning, not the driven wheels.

fedlawman

"The lack of a limited slip option was the primary factor that discouraged me from waiting for the upcoming 135i(well, that and a nagging concern about the oil temperature issue)."

I have similar concerns (though not exactly the same). I'm hoping the 335i oil cooler solution will be carried over to the 135i.

The LSD option should be available from the aftermarket.

The one issue I'm still waiting on before I pass verdict is , believe it or not, the DIPSTICK. Since I'm a DIYer and fanatical about maintenance, the lack of a dipstick is a deal breaker for me.

spiritinthesky

I plan to attend the performance driving school soon and one of the courses is an X5 through over a foot of water. There is also a water wall obstacle course. I assume I will not be able to test a 335xi vs a rwd variant but perhaps some of the instructors could shed some light. I will be sure to discuss.

I've got bad news for you. I've taken the BMW performance driving course twice and Porsche's advanced course last year. You will find many "polite" instructors at the BMW course that will not make you feel bad for having bought a sport sedan with AWD. But not a single one that I met in three trips, that would ever buy AWD over RWD for themselves, given the choice. In a "sports" car, "sports" coupe or "sports" sedan that is.

It is fairly easy to put all season tires on a RWD car and tone down your driving in poor conditions. But it is physically impossible to overcome the added weight and lower drivetrain efficiency of AWD in good conditions. And if you think AWD somehow makes you a better driver in poor conditions, don't ever try taking on one of those BMW instuctors. They could lap you in an M5 on ice, based upon REAL driving ability, not the mostly placebo effect you are getting with AWD.

So I suggest you seriously consider NOT taking a "performance" driving course that will put you into a RWD equivalent of your car. Once you really learn how to drive a RWD sports coupe/sedan with confidence, you may find that AWD weight and bulkiness a little less desireable. Even when all you are doing is carving up a nice two lane road and would prefer not to have a permanant 200+ lb passenger along for the ride. If, on the other hand, you bought a 330ix/335ix to get the best traction you can in poor conditions with a nice compact sedan, then enjoy it for what it is - you made a great choice.

jenno2

Thanks, I just hope I am not that car you pass some day. Enjoy you beautiful car too. Thanks again.

circlew

OK, you saved me some money and time. I will not attend the performance driving school. I do not want to be put to shame by the polite instructors.

Instead, I am thinking of a C4S for some fantastic, over-the-top placebo effects for my fun car and a 335xi for those toned down driving conditions.

Regards,
OW

Mr_Shiftright

Why not take the open-wheel course? These little one seaters will teach you skills that you can apply across the board in any car you drive in the future. And it's a real hoot.

circlew

OK. I'll check it out. I figure I can use any help I can get.

THanks!

Regards,
OW

habitat1

Instead, I am thinking of a C4S for some fantastic, over-the-top placebo effects for my fun car and a 335xi for those toned down driving conditions.

I've got a better idea. Why don't you save $15,000 and get a C2 instead of a C4S and use half of the savings to take both of us to the Porsche Performance Driving School? Porsche School :surprise:

Seriously, when I experienced a bout of temporary insanity and was considering selling my 2005 C2S to get a 2006 ordered to my exact color specs, I drove everything: C2, C2S, C4, C4S. The added weight (100+ lbs)of the "4" and, according to my dealer, less efficient drivetrain (4-5% lower hp to wheels), completely offset the 30 horsepower advantage of the 3.8 liter "S" model. And to be honest, until I take that driving course you are buying for us, I haven't had the do-dads to push the "2" past it's performance envelope. Or even close.

See you in September?

fedlawman

"Why not take the open-wheel course?"

Because this would have the effect of making all modern sport cars/sedans feel like the soft, overweight pigs they are.

Next thing you know, you'd be trading in that E90 for an Ariel Atom.

Mr_Shiftright

True, but you'll drive a soft modern sedan a lot better coming from an open wheel car than you will drive an open wheel car coming from a soft modern sedan!

Open-wheelers are great for learning two important things about driving a BMW 3 Series well: precision and smoothness.

It's what the cars were built for!

fedlawman

Yup, and I'm sure it's a blast too...

circlew

Hmm... I like your idea! Considering they just put out the Targa 4 and 4S, I am still tempted with AWD. But if we take the course together, we can at least drive better drifting in the rain with the 2S!

Although, OTOH, I can put the $15K savings towards my 335xi for some snow/ice fun!! What's a body to do??? :confuse:

I'm not good for September as I am just into 2 weeks in FLA with the little ones. I'll let you know my schedule when I return. This is a tempting offer! I will noodle it over the vacation.

You see, I always will agree that RWD sporting is the way to go. It's just nicer to have an over the top sports car for sunshine and track days and a nice BMW AWD'er for the nasty stuff. Best of all worlds, IMO.

Regards,
OW

roadburner

So have you gotten used to a front driver yet?

I'm amazed at how neutral the car feels in all but the tightest corners. I'm going to experiment with tire pressures to see if I can dial out a bit more understeer("push" for you NASCAR fans ). As for the cornering technique, I've found that slow-in, late apex, fast-out works best for me.

Is the torque steer manageable?

The engine management system limits maximum boost in first and second gear and also dials back the power depending on the angle of the front wheels. The steering wheel still tugs a bit, but it doesnt spoil the fun. Overall the MS3 feels just about as fast as the 335i drop top I had for a couple of weeks, although the Bimmer was fitted with a slushbox. You can uncork @20 additional HP by fitting the Mazdaspeed cold air intake. It only costs about $300 and keeps the warranty intact, so I'll be installing one in a month or so. I'm hoping the front tires will last for at least 10K miles... :P

roadburner

The one issue I'm still waiting on before I pass verdict is , believe it or not, the DIPSTICK. Since I'm a DIYer and fanatical about maintenance, the lack of a dipstick is a deal breaker for me.

I forgot to mention it, but that bothers me too. I can ashcan the RFTs and I can also fit a LSD, but having to retrofit a dipstick is a bit much. :mad:

xeye

Hi,

My week 28 '07 manufacture 335xi (w/Sport but 17" all-season ContiProContacts) oddly enough did not come with an oil-cooler. So far, during the go-easy break-in period, the oil temperature has not exceeded 240F despite the 340 degree max on the gauge. Originally, while my car was being built and I'd read these postings, the parts guy at my local dealer said "Don't worry, they'll fit your car with the oil cooler". When I got my car and told the same guy I had no cooler, he said "That was a design issue they worked into the motor, You don't need an oil cooler". I'm pretty sure that he was full of horse-puckey. Still, I haven't had any issues, but I haven't pushed the motor.

Any comments?

The second thing is the 335xi equipped as mine is supposed to have something called "BMW Ambiance Lighting front and rear". Just what the heck is this? I expected my car to have this nice waterfall lighting on the side door panels. My sales guy pointed me to these two tiny LEDs on either side of the central map light.

Any more comments?

roadburner

Still, I haven't had any issues, but I haven't pushed the motor.

I sure would keep an eye on the oil temperature. I'd definitely want the cooler installed.

The second thing is the 335xi equipped as mine is supposed to have something called "BMW Ambiance Lighting front and rear". Just what the heck is this? I expected my car to have this nice waterfall lighting on the side door panels. My sales guy pointed me to these two tiny LEDs on either side of the central map light.

Your sales guy is totally clueless. All new 3ers have the lights he pointed out- so did my wife's 1997 528i, and for that matter, so does her X3 truck. The ambience lighting is the door panel lighting you referred to.
Sounds like you need to find another dealer...

xeye

I am planning on pursuing the oil cooler installation. From some earlier posts, I have a feeling that I may run up against a stone wall if the car is not exhibiting symptoms of overheating (as would presumably be logged in the ECM/key fob.) When I picked up the car, I called out a mechanic who suggested I contact BMW as he had done some after-sale oil cooler installations.

As for the so-called "ambiance lighting", the BMW web site describes this as two tiny red LEDs, in the roof panel front and rear, that are supposed to illuminate the interior with a soft red glow when the headlights are on. Perhaps I need to turn up the interior lighting (significantly), but I don't see these lighting up anything. There are definitely no lights, LEDs, or any other kind of lighting in the door panels as I've seen shown in marketing information.

I've actually been impressed with the vehicle knowledge of my sales rep so I'm not ready to crucify him yet. In this case, I fault BMW Engineering for designing something so feeble and especially BMW Marketing for spinning this way beyond any gyroscopic sense of balance.

xeye

stephend

I have read that many people might opt to install the oil cooler. Is the BMW dealership installing it. I might be wrong but my guess is that if you have someone else besides the dealership install the oil cooler than any warranties on the car might be voided. :confuse:

xeye

As I've mentioned in earlier posts, my 335xi did not arrive with an oil cooler. The car is a week 28 '07 build with manual tranny and Sport Package, but 17" wheels and all-season tires and lacking the lowered sport suspension because of the xDrive.

When I picked up my car, the sales guy called out a service tech to confirm that there was no oil cooler (DUH!). The tech at my dealership, Herb Chambers Foreign Motors West BMW, told me to call BMW Customer Relations to get the process started to get the cooler installed. (Note: When I ordered the car, I did not know that Herb Chambers was in the process of buying the dealership. I would have walked away had I known that. It was announced while I was waiting for delivery. The dealership was previously employee-owned.)

So I called BMW Customer Relations yesterday morning.

Has anyone spoken to Christa there? Absolutely no help at all. She's a parrot repeating "Management in Germany decided that only cars with 18" wheels get the oil coolers". I asked what the justification was for this. She repeated the standard phrase "The management...". I asked to have the call escalated. Can't do that apparently. I asked for the number of the president of BMW NA. "Sorry, we don't have that number." I asked for the number in Germany. "Sorry, we don't have that number."

I got a P.O. box in New Jersey. I asked to whom should I address the letter. She said "BMW". She said they read the letters and forward them appropriately. Yeah, to File 13, no doubt.

I called my dealership to ask how much it would cost to have the oil cooler installed. The Parts dept didn't know how much the labor would be, so I was transferred to a service advisor. She didn't know how much the parts were, so she wanted to transfer me to Parts. She eventually took my name & number and then never called me back.

This dealership, I found later, is rated 1.9 stars out of 5.

What a surprise!

Fortunately, the oil temp hasn't gone above 240, but I'm still in the break-in period and have no intention of ever taking it to the track.

Does anyone have experience paying for installation of the oil cooler kit in a 335*?

xeye

pat

Seems like a good time to suggest that everyone drop by the Dealer Ratings & Reviews feature and report your sales and service experiences, good and bad.

tcn2k

I have a 335i january 2007 build and have been fighting with bmw na in regards to the oil cooler till now. Same old crap, and no cooler either. My temp has reached nearly 300 at one point. My car is an early build and only have a temp guage max out at 300 rather the the now 340. They moved it up since they figured it was cheaper then putting in an oil cooler to every car.

I plan to take mine to the track, I told bmw na to expect my call to come haul the car when it over heats. BMW NA sucks!

dougsilver

This type of stuff is another nail in the coffin for me NOT going back to try a BMW a second time. This type of "customer service" is similar to what I dealt with 20 years ago when I owned a 1986 325ES. Sounds like the attitude there still is "hey, you own a BMW--that alone should make you happy so leave us alone"

Doug

kdshapiro

Don't have to look far to find any manufacturer that has issues.

bdkinnh, "BMW 5-Series Sedans" #11855, 6 Jun 2007 10:08 am

dougsilver

Of course there are problems with all cars. But, in GENERAL, it seems like there are more problems (and costlier ones) with the Germans versus the Asians (just my opinion based on my experience and those of several friends and acquaintances that have owned both). Your Lexus experience is the exact opposite of our friends, who are now on their third ES3xx. They are impressed with the reliability but even more impressed with the way they are treated by the dealer and service department (versus what they were going through when they had their BMW 528)

Before the moderator slaps me, I guess this stuff should be in "maintenance" thread.

kdshapiro

While anecdotally that may be true, I know a few Lexus owners like the one in the thread. My point is when you buy a new car, you play the odds. I played the odds with an extroaordinary reliable BMW with unbelievable customer service (for scheduled maintenance).

Everybody has a different take on things, your opinion is no more valid or invalid than anybody elses.

nkeen

The German cars may be less reliable, but the Japanese ones are built by companies with a car clinic mentality -- and a way with content management, production methods, crude but effective marketing, and profit -- but no real love of cars. Once you get past the video-game styling, ludicrous tailight assemblies, etc. you've got a fast and powerful yet ultimately soulless product. Truthfully, I don't like the way the cars smell either.

fedlawman

And as has already been discussed, your dealership experience is a function of the dealer, not the manufacturer.

My BMW dealer is fantastic. I come in for inexpensive parts fairly infrequently (every other month or so to buy a filter, whiz nig, or something) and they all know me, say hello, offer me coffee, etc.

And I've never bought a car from them.

roadburner

My BMW dealer is fantastic. I come in for inexpensive parts fairly infrequently (every other month or so to buy a filter, whiz nig, or something) and they all know me, say hello, offer me coffee, etc.

Same here. My dealer provides excellent service and has a first-rate parts and accessories department- all with a 20% CCA discount.

roadburner

Once you get past the video-game styling, ludicrous tailight assemblies, etc. you've got a fast and powerful yet ultimately soulless product.

I will say that most Mazdas -in particular the Mazdaspeed editions- seem to be an exception to the rule. I get the feeling that those cars were designed and developed by real car guys.

xeye

Chapter II:

This morning, I found that I had not 1, but 2 voice mails from the service advisor at my dealership. One at 6 PM, and another at 7:00 PM, true to her word. For now, I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt as it costs me nothing but a little faith. She told me that she believes that her manager will be able to take care of me at BMW's expense, but is waiting for an e-mail reply from "the rep". Perhaps they will be able to sway the decision. I know this is terribly naive, but what have I got to lose?

I'm reasonably sure, that behind all the hope and faith, I will hear the same old line of, "To get what you want, you need 18 inches". Pardon the innuendo, but it is just as absurd.

Maybe there is an "oil cooler god" and he/she is smiling on me.

We'll see, and I'll surely update you with the news, one way or the other. For now, I'm off to the Cape to go bombing around for a week. If I get news, I'll put down my beverage du jour on the beach and send a note.

xeye

cdnpinhead

I agree.

The Miata sent a powerful message back in the early 90's & Mazda appears to have done an excellent job of capitalizing on both the substance & the image ever since.

Zoom, zoom, zoom indeed.

Full disclosure -- I drove two different Miatas, one an R, after having driven an MGB into 44 of the states in my earlier years.

Mr_Shiftright

You might get it. The factory sometimes allows certain dealers "good faith" money to throw at valued customers.

bdkinnh

Since you brought it up, I'll update post #11855:

I sent a letter to Lexus Customer Service listing all the problems that I've been having, and told them that I would like either a replacement or a refund. Their answer was that they had repaired all the problems, and essentially ended with "... and the horse you rode in on."

I filed the Lemon Law paperwork, and a week later Lexus called me and agreed to buy the car back. Out of the $50K I spent, I'm getting $44K back.

Obviously, their approach was "We're not going to do anything unless you force us to". It's too bad, really... until that point they hadn't lost a customer forever. Good news for me, though - if the Lemon Law didn't go in my favor, I was going to trade it in anyway.

Going into the 2006 GS purchase I knew it was a new model year and I was rolling the dice. What I didn't know was that Lexus switched to using plastic clips instead of screws in the cabin (cheaper and quicker to assemble), and that the GS would be the first Lexus to rattle like a maraca.

OK, fine - I'm all for a manufacturer changing things to try and make them better for both themselves and their customers. However, proper testing would have shown the defects (which rear their ugly head mainly in really cold or really hot climates).

My point? Even Lexus can cut corners and end up screwing their customers. Lexus dropped from #1 to #5 in Consumer Reports reliability rankings (which is driven by actual owner's responses) for a reason.

I'm glad to hear that there are people happy with their Lexus ES; I've heard that due to the transmission problems, the newer ES is the most Lemoned Lexus in their history.

To make this on-topic: I'm considering the 335i, 535i, and A6.

kdshapiro

Sorry to hear, this reads like a bad novel. However, you have picked three tough choices to narrow down to.

After a GS the 535 seems like a logical choice. I drove the 335 and 550, it is said the 535 is almost on par with the 550. You can't go wrong with any of them.

bdkinnh

I've spent some time in a 335 already, but not the 535. I'm waiting for the 2008 A6 to come out so I can try them all back to back.... should be fun.

nyccarguy

Fun and A6 shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

richardga73

kdshapiro, these two, the 335 and 550 are on my shopping list. I have owned the 330 (2003) and now own the E500. Give us a review with the differences in the 335 and 550. Handling, quietness, ability to take bumps and steering feel. My 330 was a spt suspension and I thought it was a little too rough. Thanks

bdkinnh

>"the 335 and 550 are on my shopping list"

If the 335 is on your list, why isn't the 535? Same engine and close in weight. The 550 is about 270 lbs heavier, and the HP/TQ curves are pretty close.

xeye

Hi,

I've just returned from the Cape where I had an opportunity to test out the oil cooling capability of the 335xi engine. In bumper to bumper traffic on and off the clutch for almost 2 hours waiting to get into Otis AFB for the military air show (Sunday 8/26), the outside temperature read 95 or 96 degrees consistently. The oil temp barely touched 250 degrees. This was excellent news, so far. Granted I wasn't running the engine at high speed, but I was very concerned.

The Service Manager at my dealership also finally called me back and committed to work with me to "resolve" my request for the after-sale installation of the oil cooler. Oddly enough, his first statement was that the 335xi is engineered differently than the coupe and the car really does have an oil cooler, just not installed in the same place (front right wheel well). When I told him that the engine was running cool as described above, he then said that the car doesn't need an oil cooler!

Sounds to me like he is trying to find a way out of this, but we'll see tomorrow when I bring the car over to the dealership.

I'll re-post when I get back.

xeye

BTW,

Have you noticed that the 335xi COUPE is now offered on BMW's web site? Everything I'd heard indicated it wouldn't be out until next year. PHOOEY!

06ltd

Exeye, I'm sorry you didn't see my post of last month where I said that I'd placed an order for a 335xi. However, after reading the many posts that followed and talking to several people, enthusiasts, mechanics, and others, I changed the order to 2WD. I'll also order extra wheels and winter tires. Thanks to all of you who offered your opinions.

xeye

Thanks, but I think you misunderstand; I'd still opt for the AWD, but I would have preferred the Coupe styling. I'm not throwing the xi so hard at high speed into sharp corners that I need the hunkered-down suspension. And the $5000+ for the winter rubber & wheels (over the ownership/life of the car) will buy a lot of 93 octane & speeding tickets.

What were your specific reasons/requirements that prompted you to switch to 2WD?

xeye