Why is it 'wronger' for a local store to ask a premium on a TCH than the Chevy next door
Several reasons. First the government has encouraged people to buy hybrids to save on fuel. Second, Toyota has gained a lot of Green image from the hybrids. If we conclude that hybrids are for the common good, they become more of a necessity than a luxury.
I see it like milk vs coke. Kids supposedly need milk and do not need coke. Price controls have never been implemented on coke. When Carnation started running all the small dairies in CA out of business, then running the price of milk sky high, the government stepped in and controlled the price of milk.
I put the hybrid gouging dealers in the same category as the Starbucks in NYC during the 9/11 catastrophe. Starbucks was charging the fire fighters and rescue people 5 bucks a bottle for water. Later they apologized that it was a local incident. Well it sent a lot of people to other coffee houses including myself.
The fact that the tax payers are footing part of the price of the hybrids gives us some say in how that money is spent. I will write my Senators a letter telling how the credit is just being handed over to many of the low life Toyota dealers. Maybe we can get the whole credit thrown out. See how well they sell without Uncle Sam footing part of the price.
Certainly your perogative. But I normally don't see this 'good' vs 'bad' view of hybrids except through your eyes. It's just a car. I also think your view is colored by the specific situation you see in your local area where some ( several ) stores have been asking premiums for Prius' while in other large metro areas many stores are selling the same vehicles at invoice during the last year.
It certainly is a regional perception just as the previous poster complained about his/her local store. It certainly is not a national situation.
In your specific case I can see where you might get some traction from your CA senators complaining that the hybrid tax credit is being gobbled up by the local SD dealers and not going into the pockets of the actual buyers. But.... proving that, then documenting how many of the local stores were actually doing that, then finding out why the local SD buyers were willing to give up their tax credits as a gift to their local Toyota dealerships might be a tough case to document. Do you think you might be making a mountain out of a molehill?
It seems that you are just searching for some negative, no matter how minor - or imaginary, in the hope of slowing the continued expansion of HSD vehicles. I sense that in your heart that you know there must be some negative - somewhere - if you keep looking. Am I right?
Finally, if a particular store annoys you or antagonizes you why would you not just go somewhere else? I understand Longo is a wonderful place to do business. It is the largest auto dealership on the planet so it must be doing a lot right.
Do you think you might be making a mountain out of a molehill?
It seems that you are just searching for some negative, no matter how minor - or imaginary
You may be right. I really would not expect a Toyota dealer to understand. To you it seems the hybrids are just another car to unload. I came into the hybrids forum a big supporter. The more I see the less I like. I think the biggest complaint is the attitude at Toyota, that you stick it to the buyer that is weakened by his moral conscience. Most hybrid buyers spend the extra money to feel good about what they are doing for the environment. Toyota and to a lesser extent, Honda are taking advantage of that character weakness. I care about fossil fuel usage and the environment. Not to the extent I would be screwed by a car company to do my part.
In your case the Prius was strictly a smart business move. You got it for a good price and the fuel savings on your long commute is paying off. It is not that way for most hybrid buyers.
I'm not sure why Toyota is able to keep some of the regions to MSRP and some not, but it's a fact of life.
However, it is your choice to purchase wherever you want and the markup over MSRP that you might see is only going to be happening in the first few weeks by dealers who think they can and propagated by buyers who don't care.
A dealer local to me is NOW calling around to people on the 'list' and offering his first TCH due in next week for MSRP. When I originally went to talk to them only three weeks ago, they did not even want to discuss price or order the car I wanted. I went elsewhere (130 miles further away) and I'm sticking to that decision.
Also consider that right now, you will get a tax rebate for buying a hybrid. That rebate is only available in the short term and that is now when MSRP is king.
My decision to order a loaded TCH now (MSRP less $500 = +/- $30k) is that I will get a tax rebate to offset the higher price now, rather than next year, when I can possibly pickup up the same car for $28.5K and not get the rebate.
BTW, I agree with kdhspyder. The dealers and the manufacturers consider the sale of ANY car as a business decision - hybrid or not.
At least Toyota and Honda have invested heavily in the hybrid - where is Ford, GM & DaimlerChrysler?
You may be right. I really would not expect a Toyota dealer to understand. To you it seems the hybrids are just another car to unload. I came into the hybrids forum a big supporter. The more I see the less I like. I think the biggest complaint is the attitude at Toyota, that you stick it to the buyer that is weakened by his moral conscience. Most hybrid buyers spend the extra money to feel good about what they are doing for the environment. Toyota and to a lesser extent, Honda are taking advantage of that character weakness. I care about fossil fuel usage and the environment. Not to the extent I would be screwed by a car company to do my part.
In your case the Prius was strictly a smart business move. You got it for a good price and the fuel savings on your long commute is paying off. It is not that way for most hybrid buyers.
For the most part the buyers are very well educated and relatively well off and aware of business and their own personal finances. In the 5 yrs of my experience there are no helpless 'sheep' being led to the slaughter by viscious dealers. Now this is from a different section of the country where at least two huge dealerships have been offering Prius' at invoice for up to 12 mo's ( as is their perogative ). My view may be as skewed in one direction as yours is in the other.
Selling at invoice or just above and getting no benefit from the tax credit doesn't jive with your view of rampant gouging and 'sticking it to the buyer'.
Selling at invoice or just above and getting no benefit from the tax credit doesn't jive with your view of rampant gouging and 'sticking it to the buyer'.
I lean toward invoice or below buying. Then I would fly across the USA to get the best possible deal. My gripe is not with dealers selling at MSRP. It is the $2k to $5k add-ons and dealer markups. And it is true the wise buyer will just walk away. For some reason the hybrids bring out the "any cost for the environment" which to me is illogical. Oh well, just seems unethical to me.
Striaght up honest folks are the hardest to find. I put a deposit on My TCH monday . Specified color and package (base) but did not get VIN's. Made it conditional on trade-in value and test drive, since they don't have any TCH's in yet. Then, since I have no idea if they are straight up honest, I put another deposit down at another dealer tuesday ($500 - on credit card, both stating 'refundable" based on conditions above"). Both dealers gave impression they had no room from MSRP, but after a decade in sales (not cars thankfully) I know negotiating room when I smell it. One guy after much prompting "hinted" that their margin on TCH is around 6%. Which is the low end of new car margins - my research (including speaking to two former car salesmen) said these range from 6-16% on new cars, and are often accompanied by back-end manufacturer rebates of 2 - 3% based on volume sold. 6% makes sense on a high-demand car, add the back-end 2-3% and you have a very reasonable dealer profit and a good idea where you can negotiate. You will do better negotiating up the price of your trade in, if you have one, then going off MSRP, bacause Toyota does not want to see a high-demand car going for much less than MSRP, so it looks better for the dealer. I'll let you know how it works out.
Wow! Where are these 6-16% margin on new cars 'cause I ain't sure selling those! I've yet to see a Toyota with a 16% markup. If that were the case I would only work 9 months out of the year like school teachers do. Let's stop perpetuating the "bad" dealer that is making money hands over fist please. :sick: Mackabee
Wow! Where are these 6-16% margin on new cars 'cause I ain't sure selling those!
I was thinking that 6% is way too high, plus 2-3% kick back from the manufacturer. I was deeply involved in real estate when most houses sold for what you are selling cars for today, and we only got total 6%. Not only that it took months of work to close the escrow. I think if the dealership gets a total of 2-3% on a car it is plenty.
Disclaimer - I want to buy my car at the cheapest possible price because that is how the system workjs in the USA.
Saying that.... I'm not sure how 2 or 3% works out to be plenty for a dealer when you look at the the dealer's cost of being in business? Having the overhead of the showroom plus cars in stock plus salesman & support staff to sell (ignoring the repair shop) means they have to sell a bunch of cars at 3% ($600 a unit at $20,000 selling price). Is there really that many units going through a dealer, even if they are making another $600 on the trade in? I see the same cars on my Ford's lot every day - where is he making his money?
6-16% came from a friend who until recently worked for KIA and another who worked at BMW and before that Nissan. The Kia guy said some of the KIA models had 6% margins (based on MSRP) and some went as high as 16% (based on MSRP). Of course almost no one pays full MSRP, so its not like they're actually making anywhere near those margins. He also told me the typical customer comes in and offers 10% off MSRP. Where they negotiate to from there could end up anywhere. the 2-3% back-end figure comes direct from Consumer Reports site, confirmed by my friend, and gets paid to the dealer based on quotas achieved. Based on my experience of talking to various people at 3 Toyota dealerships, a lot has to do with units sold. Not only do units sold determine back end rebates, but also salespeople's comission levels, dealer allocatons and more. It was "suggested" to me that some dealer's report cars as sold to Toyota so they can increase their allocations of high-demand vehicles. one guy at a dealership told me I was buying the last of the 4 cars allocated to them - a few days later somone else there said it was only the second of 4. All in all I eventually found somone at each dealership who was decent to deal with. I was honest with all of them that I was at the other dealerships, and I made my best deal on my trade in, as no one was willing to move more than $500 off MSRP if at all. Can't wait to get the car! No one here has any yet.
Here is new news in regards to your question "At least Toyota and Honda have invested heavily in the hybrid - where is Ford, GM & DaimlerChrysler?": http://tinyurl.com/r9do9 but instead of Ford substitute BMW for the vendor lineup. Anyone of technical background will be very interested in that info. Should see fruit within a couple years, I expect.
But so as to not be too far off-topic in this forum, and update y'all on my ordering process...my dealer of choice notified me of a white TCH with only heated mirrors (no other options) that I could receive in May if I liked. I promptly turned it down.
Then I went by a Orlando Toyota dealership to test drive any 07 Camry (just to make sure it didn't feel like the horrible 05 Ford Taurus I had as a rental car up in Dayton during the week). BTW the V6 LE was a SCREAMER!!!! Anyway, this other dealership doesn't have hybrid waiting lists, and said they would even knock off a bit off MSRP to get my business.
I also turned down an indogo metallic $27,150 MSRP hybrid (go figure what options it had) that was available next week from these same folks, still holding out for the loaded beast of burden - whatever color that may be. But it's nice to know that I can officially work between 2 dealerships for the best deal.
I have been told by local dealers in AZ that it is completely impossible to get a Camry Hybrid with the leather package, but I have a really hard time believing that, because I know that the leather package doesn't require anything else. My question is if what my dealers are telling me is true and if it is are there other parts of the country where I could get a Camry Hybrid with just the leather package?
This is likely a regional situation. If what they say is true ( for them ) it probably means that the SoCal Mega stores like Longo are going to gobble up all the premium vehicles as is their right. The smaller stores will get what is left.
Now I did see one set of stats which surprised me that about 50% of all TCH would be the basic package. I do not know if this is true. OTOH the first two we are getting are fully loaded in the $30,400 to $30,700 range. Beyond that?
Finally if all you want is leather on top of the basic package it's the easiest thing in the world to do. It takes at most 2 days to install leather. I did it on our Highlander and it's perfect. But the seats are not heated this is not normally possible aftermarket. I don't suppose you need that in AZ though.
Just a few option pricing points for you... Toyoguard: retails for $699, my dealer pays $450 for it, and my dealer said he'd give it to us at his price Camry mats: don't get them factory installed if you don't have to, my dealer sells them for $90 as opposed to the factory price of $199 Leather seats and panels: can be put in at the dealer for sometimes as much as $450 cheaper than straight from the factory, it's just a matter of finding the right dealer to install them. I'm sure you might be able to negotiate on other options also. Hope this helps gets you further below the MSRP.
How does the after market leather work? Did you do it at the dealership? Did you get replacement seats or did the little elf upholsterers work day and nite in the repair shop to replace the fabric? Or did you take the car to "Johnny's Seat Repair"?
There are a couple of national outfits that supply 'kits' for every model in the US. The kits are made to spec for every model and every seat shape. The cloth upholstery is just a covering and it takes maybe 15 min to take it off a current vehicle and then several hours to install the leather kits.
In every large metro area there are probably 2-5 large reputable shops that service every dearler and make and model in that area. The dealership you are working with usually will subcontract the work for you and the quality is normally excellent. I've probably done it 150 times in the last 6 yrs including my own Highlander.
What's everyone's best quote on one of the early TCH's so far? Has anyone else been quoted equal or better of $500 under MSRP?
I'm looking for a "Package 1" or heated mirrors only vehicle.
Please help! Thanks...
OZARKGOLFER: Do you have a quote form or something that shows your quote of $500 under MSRP. I'm in your neck of the woods and this might help me in my situation. Please contact me if you do. Thanks!
500 under MSRP ("Costco pricing"), free floor mat kit, no doc fee ("waived") or any other fees except TTL. This is for a car that will have less than 50 miles on it and no "minimum stay" on dealer lot for purposes of showing other customers. Midwest. But who knows how long it will take to get in the right color and options (loaded)?
I have the order form from the dealer but the $500 is handwritten, so it is far from absolute proof. Where are you located exactly? I can put you in touch with the dealer if you wish? Contact me through my profile - I'll make sure my email address is available.
As of this morning, the option for the HYBRID TCH is now available on the Toyota web site under 'build and price'. This choice allows no options other than '50 states' emission package. Build and price price is as stated as $25,900 plus delivery. This was not available on 5-1-06 but is today 5-2-06. I have been checking each day. It would be nice if they would add the XLE option pack for the leather/NAV package as an option as well.. Perhaps they will.
?? The XLE option pack is already well known with many of the incoming vehicles spec's that way already. As a matter of fact the pricing for all 3 packages has been known for several weeks now. BTW the 'build and price' module is controlled by the local ( regional ) office not the headquarters. That's why you have to enter a ZIP first. Some regions' modules are more capable than other region's. All Toyota sales are done on a regional basis.
Pricing is from $30300 to about $30700 for the 'XLE TCH'
Thanks KDHSpyder !.. Nice to know.. I ordered on 4-12 and was told #3 on the local list.. I am hoping for the XLE option pack so I am anxiously waiting. :P
I'm sure this is a dumb question, but what is the "XLE option pack" as it relates to the TCH? I'm familiar with the 3 TCH option packages but not the term "XLE option pack".
I am reading the posts here and am shocked to read that it's hard for people to find a Toyota Camry Hybrid in stock. I heard there is a waiting list. I knew nothing of the sort last friday when all I was doing was stopping by my local Toyota dealer to see the new 07 camry's. I saw them and they are beautiful but on my way out I saw a truck off loading an 07 camry hybrid, red. Of course I walked over to it and admired it. It was not ready to test drive because it had white papertape stuff on it and all. I sat in it, checked it out, asked questions and before they could add the dealer prep of 2995.00 to it, it became mine. I got a great price, my own financing and couldn't be happier. So even if you;re on a waiting list you must go daily to your local dealer because you and them never know when one will arrive. First come first serve no matter how long that list is. That's what I am told. Drives nice, lOOKS nice and the extras are great. I hooked up my cell phone to the blue tooth which is located on the steering wheel, 9 speakers, jbl, cooling system for psgr and diff for driver, mp3 player, sirius radio, 6 disc changer, keyless entry, power everything, heated mirrors, seats etc..... I love it. joanne
There's 154 TCH's in the southeast (go to the "build your toyota" and enter in a zip like 32819). Some have 18" rims on them, which jacks up the price by almost $2000 - give me a break!!!
There are a few with nav, a few with moonroof. None with both. No smell of leather anwhere down here!
I wonder when the pipeline will start filling with the loaded ones down here? kdyspyder, any thoughts? Hell, at this rate VW will have that TDI Passat available and I'll be sorely tempted to just go with an oilburner.....
Congrats big time. You are one of the 86 first owners in of a hybrid Camry. That was the total sales of hybrid Camry's in the US.. all in the last days of April.
I see what you mean. The one common denominator is that they're all way marked up with crap nobody wants. I swear this tax credit which seemed like such a good idea is instead going to go straight to the dealers. I for one refuse to pay over MSRP and I will take my time until either one comes up or a better option is available.
Instead of giving a tax credit for buying a hybrid, congress should have enacted a higher tax for vehicles based on fuel efficiency. That would be an incentive for all manufacturers to improve fuel efficiency and would penalize people that still want to buy gas guzzlers. It will also prvent the price gauging that may be coming with the hybrid. I hope I'm wrong about this...
Did you read the lady's post just above. Just MSRP and no hassle. The full tax creit goes to her in that case. Why complain about something you can't change ( your local sales practices ) and just look elsewhere such as in Dallas like the other poster suggested. It's like screaming at the wind to stop and you are just frustrating yourself by trying to change the methods in your local area..
Vote with your feet. People do it all the time and end up happy not angry.
Have you come to an agreement firmly on pricing and equipment and dealer addons? If not I suggest that you do or risk being disappointed in the next week or two. If you have covered all those bases then I think you are in great shape. You would be with me.
I think that everything will work out fine. And you will love the TCH.
Well I gave a $500 deposit and signed a sheet with the options I wanted which is basically evrything except the heated seats and mirrors. The sheet is not a binding contract though and does say that prices are subject to change without notice. I do like the person I am dealing with and she seemed very straight up. I hope you're right.
I dont think they are making the TCH's the way you ordered it. There are for now only 3 ways. If they follow the Prius example then those will be the only 3 ways for the next 12-18 mo's.
I'm sorry but I believe that you are in for disappointment because everything isn't specified exactly to the penny. If I were you I'd call around and see what others are telling you on the options question and any addons. If your local store wont put everything exactly in writing then I'd ask for my deposit back on the spot. If getting it locally doesnt work then I'd try that store up in Dallas that the other poster mentioned positively.
Given the 3 options packages I can show you here what the likely prices should be. They have been published for about a month now.
I built what I wanted on the toyota site and the price came out exactly as the delear priced it. She didn't think there would be a problem with any of my add-ons (spoiler, mats...). I did sighn a sheet with a price on it. Whether they can get this exact configuration is something else. She didn't lead me to believe they couldn't, but maybe she didn't know any better.
The one thinng I've thought I might have to live with is the heated seats and mirrors if the fully loaded ones include this. Not much of a need for heated seats in Houston.
Are these the packakes you are referring to? I saw these arlier in the thread.
The following may be helpful. The prices for CAT (Central Atlantic Toyota) region have been released for the Camry Hybrid. Initial dealer deliveries should begin around May 17.
Pack #1 = FE, HM ( 50 States and Heated Outside Mirrors) with CF= Carpeted Floor Mats............MSRP $26,709.00
Pack #2 = FE, HM, SR ( 50 States, Heated Outside Mirrors and Sun/Moon Roof) with CF, DK = Carpeted Floor Mats................................MSRP $27,649.00
Package 3 is very close to what I want. I can live with CQ package. Do you think I should clarify this with my dealer.
When you say things should be specified to the penny, is it a formal contract or the sheet I signed that says prices are subject to change?
Yes these are the only three ways that they are making the TCH's in the beginning. Given these limits one cannot order a la carte to break up a package or add something to a package - except accessories like mats, spoiler or rub strips.
If you are OK with Package #3 now, I'd get over to the store you are working with since you and they have all the pricing info and finalize the bottom line price to the penny. Make it an 'Out the Door' price as if you were going to write them a check. You can decide on the financing when you pick it up.
The 'price subject to change' phrase would put me off. The prices will not change from Toyota in the near term. They will only change at the local level, meaning that they can add anything they want if the demand goes out of sight. I'd get that stricken from the agreement and make sure the bottom line is final.. period.. for a package #3. If they won't then ask for the depost back or be ready to give up your slot when 'yours' comes in and they do add local adjustments to the basic price.
In four years of doing this on the Prius' and other vehicles I have never had a client be surprised at time of delivery. Some Prius orders were placed 6 months in advance. Deal with the right location and it's nothing more than pick up a suit from a clothing store after the alterations have been made.
Just talked to my dealer. She sounds very on the up n up. She says I am next in line. They were able to trade their first allocation to get the configuration the #1 person wanted. She will have to wait until the next allocation is made (middle of this month?) to see what's coming in the pipeline and see whether she needs to trade for my vehicle or if by luck they are assigned a fully loaded one. She also said the only add on they do is tinted windows, which she has agreed to throw in for free. I feel more comfortable now. We'll see how things play out.
I would like tinted windows on my TCH (if I ever get one - waiting is difficult!). Is it best to do these through the dealer? Are there ever problems with the rear window defroster wires? Does tinting affect nav reception or sat radio reception? Do I have choices about degree of tint?
I realize this is off-topic. Perhaps the only on-topic part is - should I have the Toyota dealer do the tint and should I do it at time of TCH delivery when car is brand new? Other comments about any resources would also be helpful. I am willing to pay for a really good quality tint film and well-done application.
I'm getting a "token" $589 off MSRP to bring the price to $31,000. However for most people the real deal is on the trade. My dealer is being more than fair and giving me $3000 over the KBB trade in price. I'm getting the "Private Party Sell" price against the discounted price. Take into the consideration of the $2600 FED tax credit and as much as a $3750 WV Tax credit and it's a pretty sweet deal.
I also see people griping about paying MSRP. Try pricing a BMW 3 series, Lexus IS or ES, Corvette or other "new" to the market cars. I don't consider this gouging. It's market demand and supply and that's the American way. It's not stupid for either party to participate in this practice as long as the car is worth it and holds its value over time. (However I believe the idiots who paid $2000 over MSRP a few years ago for PT Cruisers are not cabable of handling their own finances. That's a different stroy altogether.)
"First come first serve no matter how long that list is. " I've bought 9 Toyotas since 2001 and if a dealer sold a car that he had on "HOLD" for me it would be the last one he would sell me.
Sorry, but your posting looks pretty naive as far as car buying goes. I'd never pay $2995 for prep but I'm guessing if that's the local dealer policy then just because you got it before the marked it on there wasn't really the reason they sold it at MSRP.
If I have one ordered they "HOLD" it and honor first come first sell at every dealer I've ever dealt with OR they tell you up front they wouldn't. (Few would not hold for you with a deposit)
True it's not hard in some areas to be first to get the Hybrid. I'm the only one waiting at my dealer and I should get it in the next 2 weeks. (By the way they don't just mysteriously show up at the dealer. He knows what's coming and usually can predict within a few days once the freight is assigned)
Not sure where you are, but I'm guessing you're like me and it's not in one of the markets where there are 20 people waiting in line.
Around here a dealer could get shot (or sued) for doing something like you described
Around here a dealer could get shot (or sued) for doing something like you described
The Toyota dealer close to me only has wait lists on hybrids. Each salesman keeps a list of prospective buyers. When a Prius comes in they all start calling and the first person through the door with the money gets the car.
Do any of the TCH side airbags come out of the seats? I'm not up-to-date on the current airbag technology since I'm still driving a '98 Camry XLE, and its front airbags do (I think) come out of the sides of the seats. So...as long as the TCH doesn't have heated seats, getting aftermarket leather shouldn't be a big deal? The side airbags are a non-issue?
A few weeks ago I stopped by a local Toyota dealer to inquire about the TCH. My main concern was the trunk size and I wanted to see the car before I made any commitments. He indicated he would be receiving them in May and took my name and phone no. to call me when one arrived. I did not make a deposit and was not put on any list.
Yesterday the same salesman called and informed me that they had just received their first TCH and would I be interested in buying it. When he told me the color (white) and model (base) I told him I wasn't interested but I would come look at the car. When I arrived he again asked me if I was interested in buying the car and again I said no. So like in message #97, in some cases, it appears who walks in first and wants it gets it!!
Oh,by the way, after looking at the car I was satisfied that the trunk size is not an issue.
Comments
Several reasons. First the government has encouraged people to buy hybrids to save on fuel. Second, Toyota has gained a lot of Green image from the hybrids. If we conclude that hybrids are for the common good, they become more of a necessity than a luxury.
I see it like milk vs coke. Kids supposedly need milk and do not need coke. Price controls have never been implemented on coke. When Carnation started running all the small dairies in CA out of business, then running the price of milk sky high, the government stepped in and controlled the price of milk.
I put the hybrid gouging dealers in the same category as the Starbucks in NYC during the 9/11 catastrophe. Starbucks was charging the fire fighters and rescue people 5 bucks a bottle for water. Later they apologized that it was a local incident. Well it sent a lot of people to other coffee houses including myself.
The fact that the tax payers are footing part of the price of the hybrids gives us some say in how that money is spent. I will write my Senators a letter telling how the credit is just being handed over to many of the low life Toyota dealers. Maybe we can get the whole credit thrown out. See how well they sell without Uncle Sam footing part of the price.
It certainly is a regional perception just as the previous poster complained about his/her local store. It certainly is not a national situation.
In your specific case I can see where you might get some traction from your CA senators complaining that the hybrid tax credit is being gobbled up by the local SD dealers and not going into the pockets of the actual buyers. But.... proving that, then documenting how many of the local stores were actually doing that, then finding out why the local SD buyers were willing to give up their tax credits as a gift to their local Toyota dealerships might be a tough case to document. Do you think you might be making a mountain out of a molehill?
It seems that you are just searching for some negative, no matter how minor - or imaginary, in the hope of slowing the continued expansion of HSD vehicles. I sense that in your heart that you know there must be some negative - somewhere - if you keep looking. Am I right?
Finally, if a particular store annoys you or antagonizes you why would you not just go somewhere else? I understand Longo is a wonderful place to do business. It is the largest auto dealership on the planet so it must be doing a lot right.
It seems that you are just searching for some negative, no matter how minor - or imaginary
You may be right. I really would not expect a Toyota dealer to understand. To you it seems the hybrids are just another car to unload. I came into the hybrids forum a big supporter. The more I see the less I like. I think the biggest complaint is the attitude at Toyota, that you stick it to the buyer that is weakened by his moral conscience. Most hybrid buyers spend the extra money to feel good about what they are doing for the environment. Toyota and to a lesser extent, Honda are taking advantage of that character weakness. I care about fossil fuel usage and the environment. Not to the extent I would be screwed by a car company to do my part.
In your case the Prius was strictly a smart business move. You got it for a good price and the fuel savings on your long commute is paying off. It is not that way for most hybrid buyers.
However, it is your choice to purchase wherever you want and the markup over MSRP that you might see is only going to be happening in the first few weeks by dealers who think they can and propagated by buyers who don't care.
A dealer local to me is NOW calling around to people on the 'list' and offering his first TCH due in next week for MSRP. When I originally went to talk to them only three weeks ago, they did not even want to discuss price or order the car I wanted. I went elsewhere (130 miles further away) and I'm sticking to that decision.
Also consider that right now, you will get a tax rebate for buying a hybrid. That rebate is only available in the short term and that is now when MSRP is king.
My decision to order a loaded TCH now (MSRP less $500 = +/- $30k) is that I will get a tax rebate to offset the higher price now, rather than next year, when I can possibly pickup up the same car for $28.5K and not get the rebate.
BTW, I agree with kdhspyder. The dealers and the manufacturers consider the sale of ANY car as a business decision - hybrid or not.
At least Toyota and Honda have invested heavily in the hybrid - where is Ford, GM & DaimlerChrysler?
In your case the Prius was strictly a smart business move. You got it for a good price and the fuel savings on your long commute is paying off. It is not that way for most hybrid buyers.
For the most part the buyers are very well educated and relatively well off and aware of business and their own personal finances. In the 5 yrs of my experience there are no helpless 'sheep' being led to the slaughter by viscious dealers. Now this is from a different section of the country where at least two huge dealerships have been offering Prius' at invoice for up to 12 mo's ( as is their perogative ). My view may be as skewed in one direction as yours is in the other.
Selling at invoice or just above and getting no benefit from the tax credit doesn't jive with your view of rampant gouging and 'sticking it to the buyer'.
I lean toward invoice or below buying. Then I would fly across the USA to get the best possible deal. My gripe is not with dealers selling at MSRP. It is the $2k to $5k add-ons and dealer markups. And it is true the wise buyer will just walk away. For some reason the hybrids bring out the "any cost for the environment" which to me is illogical. Oh well, just seems unethical to me.
:sick:
Mackabee
I was thinking that 6% is way too high, plus 2-3% kick back from the manufacturer. I was deeply involved in real estate when most houses sold for what you are selling cars for today, and we only got total 6%. Not only that it took months of work to close the escrow. I think if the dealership gets a total of 2-3% on a car it is plenty.
Saying that....
I'm not sure how 2 or 3% works out to be plenty for a dealer when you look at the the dealer's cost of being in business? Having the overhead of the showroom plus cars in stock plus salesman & support staff to sell (ignoring the repair shop) means they have to sell a bunch of cars at 3% ($600 a unit at $20,000 selling price). Is there really that many units going through a dealer, even if they are making another $600 on the trade in? I see the same cars on my Ford's lot every day - where is he making his money?
But so as to not be too far off-topic in this forum, and update y'all on my ordering process...my dealer of choice notified me of a white TCH with only heated mirrors (no other options) that I could receive in May if I liked. I promptly turned it down.
Then I went by a Orlando Toyota dealership to test drive any 07 Camry (just to make sure it didn't feel like the horrible 05 Ford Taurus I had as a rental car up in Dayton during the week). BTW the V6 LE was a SCREAMER!!!! Anyway, this other dealership doesn't have hybrid waiting lists, and said they would even knock off a bit off MSRP to get my business.
I also turned down an indogo metallic $27,150 MSRP hybrid (go figure what options it had) that was available next week from these same folks, still holding out for the loaded beast of burden - whatever color that may be. But it's nice to know that I can officially work between 2 dealerships for the best deal.
Now I did see one set of stats which surprised me that about 50% of all TCH would be the basic package. I do not know if this is true. OTOH the first two we are getting are fully loaded in the $30,400 to $30,700 range. Beyond that?
Finally if all you want is leather on top of the basic package it's the easiest thing in the world to do. It takes at most 2 days to install leather. I did it on our Highlander and it's perfect. But the seats are not heated this is not normally possible aftermarket. I don't suppose you need that in AZ though.
Toyoguard: retails for $699, my dealer pays $450 for it, and my dealer said he'd give it to us at his price
Camry mats: don't get them factory installed if you don't have to, my dealer sells them for $90 as opposed to the factory price of $199
Leather seats and panels: can be put in at the dealer for sometimes as much as $450 cheaper than straight from the factory, it's just a matter of finding the right dealer to install them.
I'm sure you might be able to negotiate on other options also. Hope this helps gets you further below the MSRP.
In every large metro area there are probably 2-5 large reputable shops that service every dearler and make and model in that area. The dealership you are working with usually will subcontract the work for you and the quality is normally excellent. I've probably done it 150 times in the last 6 yrs including my own Highlander.
I'm looking for a "Package 1" or heated mirrors only vehicle.
Please help! Thanks...
OZARKGOLFER: Do you have a quote form or something that shows your quote of $500 under MSRP. I'm in your neck of the woods and this might help me in my situation. Please contact me if you do. Thanks!
Are their numbers of $23,890 base and $24,040 with floormats and heated mirrors (including delivery) correct?
My dealer is telling me otherwise. I'm trying to find out for sure. Thanks...
This choice allows no options other than '50 states' emission package. Build and price price is as stated as $25,900 plus delivery. This was not available on 5-1-06 but is today 5-2-06. I have been checking each day. It would be nice if they would add the XLE option pack for the leather/NAV package as an option as well.. Perhaps they will.
Billl
Pricing is from $30300 to about $30700 for the 'XLE TCH'
:P
joanne
There are a few with nav, a few with moonroof. None with both. No smell of leather anwhere down here!
I wonder when the pipeline will start filling with the loaded ones down here? kdyspyder, any thoughts? Hell, at this rate VW will have that TDI Passat available and I'll be sorely tempted to just go with an oilburner.....
Instead of giving a tax credit for buying a hybrid, congress should have enacted a higher tax for vehicles based on fuel efficiency. That would be an incentive for all manufacturers to improve fuel efficiency and would penalize people that still want to buy gas guzzlers. It will also prvent the price gauging that may be coming with the hybrid. I hope I'm wrong about this...
Did you read the lady's post just above. Just MSRP and no hassle. The full tax creit goes to her in that case. Why complain about something you can't change ( your local sales practices ) and just look elsewhere such as in Dallas like the other poster suggested. It's like screaming at the wind to stop and you are just frustrating yourself by trying to change the methods in your local area..
Vote with your feet. People do it all the time and end up happy not angry.
I think that everything will work out fine. And you will love the TCH.
I'm sorry but I believe that you are in for disappointment because everything isn't specified exactly to the penny. If I were you I'd call around and see what others are telling you on the options question and any addons. If your local store wont put everything exactly in writing then I'd ask for my deposit back on the spot. If getting it locally doesnt work then I'd try that store up in Dallas that the other poster mentioned positively.
Given the 3 options packages I can show you here what the likely prices should be. They have been published for about a month now.
The one thinng I've thought I might have to live with is the heated seats and mirrors if the fully loaded ones include this. Not much of a need for heated seats in Houston.
Are these the packakes you are referring to? I saw these arlier in the thread.
The following may be helpful. The prices for CAT (Central Atlantic Toyota) region have been released for the Camry Hybrid. Initial dealer deliveries should begin around May 17.
Pack #1 = FE, HM ( 50 States and Heated Outside Mirrors) with CF= Carpeted Floor Mats............MSRP $26,709.00
Pack #2 = FE, HM, SR ( 50 States, Heated Outside Mirrors and Sun/Moon Roof) with CF, DK = Carpeted Floor Mats................................MSRP $27,649.00
Pack #3 = FE, LA, NV, SR, CQ ( 50 States, Leather Package, Voice Activated DVD Navigation System, Sun/Moon Roof, Comfort and Convenience Package) with CF = Carpeted Floor Mats..................................MSRP $30,589.00
Package 3 is very close to what I want. I can live with CQ package. Do you think I should clarify this with my dealer.
When you say things should be specified to the penny, is it a formal contract or the sheet I signed that says prices are subject to change?
When you say things should be specified to the penny, is it a formal contract or the sheet I signed that says prices are subject to change?
Yes these are the only three ways that they are making the TCH's in the beginning. Given these limits one cannot order a la carte to break up a package or add something to a package - except accessories like mats, spoiler or rub strips.
If you are OK with Package #3 now, I'd get over to the store you are working with since you and they have all the pricing info and finalize the bottom line price to the penny. Make it an 'Out the Door' price as if you were going to write them a check. You can decide on the financing when you pick it up.
The 'price subject to change' phrase would put me off. The prices will not change from Toyota in the near term. They will only change at the local level, meaning that they can add anything they want if the demand goes out of sight. I'd get that stricken from the agreement and make sure the bottom line is final.. period.. for a package #3. If they won't then ask for the depost back or be ready to give up your slot when 'yours' comes in and they do add local adjustments to the basic price.
In four years of doing this on the Prius' and other vehicles I have never had a client be surprised at time of delivery. Some Prius orders were placed 6 months in advance. Deal with the right location and it's nothing more than pick up a suit from a clothing store after the alterations have been made.
I would like tinted windows on my TCH (if I ever get one - waiting is difficult!). Is it best to do these through the dealer? Are there ever problems with the rear window defroster wires? Does tinting affect nav reception or sat radio reception? Do I have choices about degree of tint?
I realize this is off-topic. Perhaps the only on-topic part is - should I have the Toyota dealer do the tint and should I do it at time of TCH delivery when car is brand new? Other comments about any resources would also be helpful. I am willing to pay for a really good quality tint film and well-done application.
I also see people griping about paying MSRP. Try pricing a BMW 3 series, Lexus IS or ES, Corvette or other "new" to the market cars. I don't consider this gouging. It's market demand and supply and that's the American way. It's not stupid for either party to participate in this practice as long as the car is worth it and holds its value over time. (However I believe the idiots who paid $2000 over MSRP a few years ago for PT Cruisers are not cabable of handling their own finances. That's a different stroy altogether.)
I've bought 9 Toyotas since 2001 and if a dealer sold a car that he had on "HOLD" for me it would be the last one he would sell me.
Sorry, but your posting looks pretty naive as far as car buying goes. I'd never pay $2995 for prep but I'm guessing if that's the local dealer policy then just because you got it before the marked it on there wasn't really the reason they sold it at MSRP.
If I have one ordered they "HOLD" it and honor first come first sell at every dealer I've ever dealt with OR they tell you up front they wouldn't. (Few would not hold for you with a deposit)
True it's not hard in some areas to be first to get the Hybrid. I'm the only one waiting at my dealer and I should get it in the next 2 weeks. (By the way they don't just mysteriously show up at the dealer. He knows what's coming and usually can predict within a few days once the freight is assigned)
Not sure where you are, but I'm guessing you're like me and it's not in one of the markets where there are 20 people waiting in line.
Around here a dealer could get shot (or sued) for doing something like you described
The Toyota dealer close to me only has wait lists on hybrids. Each salesman keeps a list of prospective buyers. When a Prius comes in they all start calling and the first person through the door with the money gets the car.
Yesterday the same salesman called and informed me that they had just received their first TCH and would I be interested in buying it. When he told me the color (white) and model (base) I told him I wasn't interested but I would come look at the car. When I arrived he again asked me if I was interested in buying the car and again I said no. So like in message #97, in some cases, it appears who walks in first and wants it gets it!!
Oh,by the way, after looking at the car I was satisfied that the trunk size is not an issue.