I agree, and that is why allowing the downshift will not necessarily burn more fuel. The ECU sees the engine is in a "sweet spot" and adjust the injectors accordingly.
This is a subject that can be kicked round and round with no clear winner or loosers.
My take is that the manufacturers are striving to be the clear winner in the fuel wars, for bragging rights. Honda is doing that right now. Being the "highest mileage car company on the planet", (Paraphrased) sells cars.
They spend mega bucks tweaking these things to achieve the best mileage possible and still have longevity. I'm not believing I know more than they do. I believe that if some super duper air cleaner would give better mileage while still maintaining engine longevity, they would use it. If staying in the highest gear possible would achieve the best mileage, they would not have 5 speed transmissions.
One speed would be enough!
kaydens,
With the AT in drive and on flat ground, you can accelerate while in OD without the tranny downshifting. However, once you get to a certain throttle position, I believe the ECU senses, throttle, speed, load on engine, the fact that you need more power, etc.. It downshifts the tranny to allow the engine RPM to rise and the engine to provide more power for the desired task. With more power available, and not much strain, the injectors are cut back unless you again require more throttle.
On the other hand, anyone with the mindset that they know more than the engineers, with either driving practices and/or accessories, should follow their dream.
There are all types of gadget out there. You could probably install enough to potentially double the mileage you are now getting. And maybe even double the horsepower while you are at it. Problem is that they don't really work and a lot of time you wind up with serious problems after spending a ton of money.
My advice to you is to let your transmission do what it does best. Use the paddles for fun time! :shades:
That sounds like great advice. what is OD? I keep on hearing about OD but am never sure what it is and how to set my car to OD. anyone cares to elaborate?
OD is the overdrive. In your Fit, that is the 5th gear. In some cars, there is a button that can engage/disengage the overdrive, but the Fit doesn't have one. Nor do you need it.
To go a little farther, You might wonder why it is called overdrive (OD) .
To clarify a question you had earlier, And there are exceptions: In days of yore, 1st gear picked up the name of LOW gear. Then there was likely a 2nd gear and finally a 3rd or HIGH gear in most American made cars. Some imports, which were a novelty until the VW Beetle, had 4 speed transmissions. In that case you had 1st(low), 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (high). The 4 speed cars generally had small engines and needed the extra gear to help maintain higher engine RPM to stay on the power curve. Larger Trucks also often had more than 3 gears, for the same reason.
High gear was most always a 1:1 ratio between the output of the engine crank shaft and the drive shaft going to the drive axle. High gear also was known as the "Drive" gear. No matter how many gears were between Low and high/drive, drive was still a 1:1 ratio.
Somewhere along the line someone decided that since engines were becoming more efficient and more powerful the highest gear could be change to another ratio that would speed up the drive shaft a bit. At a given engine RPM the drive shaft would turn a little faster than it had before. So now that gear was considered to be higher or "OVER" the drive gear. In the case of a 4 speed tranny we now had 1st (Low), 2nd, 3rd (high or drive), and 4th (over drive).
In modern cars, 4th and 5th gear might both actually be "overdrives", although the accepted term for OD is still pretty much, as Jacksan1 said, 5th gear.
There are other factors that determine how fast the rear wheels turn when compared to the spinning drive shaft. Namely the axle ratio. Example: If the axle ratio is 3:1, the drive shaft will turn 3 RPM for every 1 rpm of the drive wheels. With a 4:1 axle, the drive shaft will turn 4 times for every 1 rpm of the wheels. So, as you can see, the manufacturers can use combinations of gear ratios in the tranny and axle ratios at the drive wheels to accomplish their needs.
The faster the engine turns, when compared to the drive wheels, the more power there is available to those wheels. We just need to keep in mind that the engine needs to be kept in it's "Happy Zone" to deliver the best mileage and longevity.
Those driving MT also known as Manual Transmissions, Stick Shifts, Straight shifts, etc. can figure this out by the engines lack of power, bucking, rattling, and so forth. With Automatics the Torque converter may unlock to take advantage of the internal slippage of fluids to compensate for an overloaded engine, or it will down shift if WE LET IT !
I sincerely believe that the best way to maximize economy from an AT is to use the throttle gently. If you can keep it from down shifting, or persuade it that it needs to up shift, you are helping things. Whenever it shifts, there is a correlation between your foot and the load on the engine. The tranny is doing it's best to deliver the best solution for the conditions the engine is dealing with.
If you use the paddles to force it to do things it is not programmed to do, well.... :confuse:
About the manual shifting of AT and its impact on fuel economy, I have not seen too many studies. One well-known Japanese magazine did a comparison (though not very tightly controlled) using two Toyotas (I don't remember the model but it was an econo one) virtually identical but the transmission. In that comparison, the manual shifting with the paddle shifter got a better mileage than letting the AT shift, by about 5%. They repeated the test several times, and found that every time the manual shifting won.
It was just one Toyota model that was in comparison, and they only ran this test on one day, so I don't give too much credence to the result. Nevertheless, it was an interesting read.
Speaking of a Japanese auto mag and mileage comparsions, a lot of their auto enthusiast mags over there do regular mileage comparisons (instead of "Wow, this Corvette is fast!"), and often rather thoroughly too. One magazine I love always takes three competing cars out at the same time, driving them together on city streets, expressways, country roads, and back to city streets, and show the mileage difference in each environment. Since three cars drive together simultaneously, driving conditions are effectively controlled, which makes for a good comparison. They do this in every issue.
After reading the poor MPG comments after just purchasing my 08-A/T Fit slightly used w/2000mles on it and getting real nervous about possibly making a bad buy-I refilled my tank-aired up the tires to 36psi-and lightened up my gas foot to never allow the Tach to go over 2500rpm-I ended up with 26.75 mpg in city driving-some stop n go and warming up car for Winter...It was advertised to receive 27mpg so I will take this with a smile. Now on my next tank I will not baby it and enjoy the peppiness-and I'll report back with that mileage..Noticed that with the gas gauge completely on empty-It still had 2 gal of as in the tank...
That gets back to the gripe I've been airing as I think about my next car and whether it could be a Fit. If people get nervous and want to stop for gas when the gauge indicates empty, then the practical range of this car is far less than even I was projecting. If 9 gallons is it for "gotta fill it now so I don't run out," then the tank and range on a tank are both ridiculously too small. Your message supports the implication of a previous poster who indicated he was getting 38 mpg, but then stated he was going 330 miles on a tank. Excuse me but that's 8.7 gallons, leaving 2.1 in the tank. Bad design of tank and gas gauge (read cheap).
stated he was going 330 miles on a tank. Excuse me but that's 8.7 gallons, leaving 2.1 in the tank. Bad design of tank and gas gauge (read cheap).
Maybe some people want to fill up before it's on "E" especially in the winter it's safer to fill up at the quarter mark. Most cars leave leave you with a gallon or so as a reserve. My other car has a 19gal tank but when it shows empty I usually can only put in 16-17 gal, so this isn't anything unusual to the Fit.
It's one thing to leave 2 gallons in a 19 gallon tank, and quite another to leave 2 gallons in a 10+ gallon tank. Thoroughly unacceptable to me. Furthermore, the poster I replied to said the tank indicated completely empty there, leaving the driver to gamble if he drives further before filling up. This make filling up the Fit at 8-9 gallons necessary and that is just plain poor design in my book. If you happen to be one of the unlucky ones whose driving habits and routes give only 25 mpg that's a meager 200-225 miles on a tank. I'll have none of that please. I wouldn't consider buying the car if I could expect such lousy mileage and range.
I totally agree... I think it's pretty standard to have 2 gallons on reserve when it shows empty, would you want your tank to REALLY be empty when it shows so? you'll be calling AAA every 3 days! if the you would cross a perfectly good car off your list of possible choices because of it's smaller than usual tank, then you should do it. But the tank size has nothing to do with the mileage it gets per gallon...
My objection to the USEFUL tank size has to do with the nominal driving range between fill-ups, not with the absolute size of the tank. I do not agree with your statement about a normal two gallon margin at empty. Maybe that is necessary for airheads, but not for competent drivers. I normally fill 11.7-12.2 gallons in my car's 12.7 gallon tank, because I watch the trip odo and trust the warning light to come on with more than a gallon left. None of the posters on this thread have mentioned using the warning light, only the indicator of the gas gauge. Should I read into that that the warning light is not being trusted, or that it comes on with two+ gallons remaining and no one has figured out that if you can only fill 8.7 gallons at the warning that it would be safe to go another 25-30 miles and still have reserve fuel. I expect to get a low-fuel warning with a specified reserve - say 1 gallon. I can then drive a safely conservative distance before stopping for gas.
Considering that the Fit's real tank capacity is less than the specified 10.8 gallons because the top .3-.5 gallons is not available if the driver avoids topping off (stop at the second automatic shut-off, having read all the warnings against over-filling), and the usable capacity is .5 gallons less than that if the low-fuel warning can be trusted to allow the driver to fill up with only .5 gallons remaining as a safety margin That gets the useful capacity down to not more than 9.8 gallons, unacceptable if I were unlucky enough to get only 25 mpg in normal driving (reason enough to dump the car or not buy it in the first place), providing a measly 245 mile range, and minimally acceptable if I got an average of 30.9 mpg for mixed driving, providing a range of 300 miles . The Fit can be great in every other respect and I still will not buy it if I have to stop for gas sooner than that. The 8.7-8.8 gallon fill-ups I read about here are ludicrous to me unless the car gets at least 35 mpg with mixed driving.
I'm looking for reasons to keep the Fit on my list, not for reasons to kick it off, but this issue might be the kicker.
"I do not agree with your statement about a normal two gallon margin at empty. Maybe that is necessary for airheads, but not for competent drivers."
I'm thinking you have your signals crossed. A competent driver will always be sure there is enough fuel in the tank for something unexpected. Only an "Airhead" would drain the tank to it's lowest possible point before refilling. :sick:
normally fill 11.7-12.2 gallons in my car's 12.7 gallon tank, because I watch the trip odo and trust the warning light to come on with more than a gallon left.
So this is with your current car? It's the same with the Fit then. Once the warning light comes on your can trust it, drive a little longer and still be safe.
Besides, if you're not going to buy the Fit because of concerns of when the low fuel warning light comes on, well that's your choice. So what vehicle are you going to buy because of this significant defect
I want to hear what people are getting for typical range and how many gallons they are typically pumping. Two posters have indicated that they are pumping 8.7-8.8 gallons, which strikes me as extremely conservative. What about everyone else out there? What are you seeing as the typical usable capacity (how many gallons are you pumping on average)? I can control my driving style, but I can't control the design of the tank or engine, so I'm still looking for multiple responses on range and capacity. The published specs are no help in the real world except as an unachievable outer limit. Thanks.
To date I've only filled the tank of my MT Fit Sport 3 times. MPG has ranged from 33.6 to 38.0 Two of those times the Low Fuel indicator came on and then I filled it as soon as I could (within a few miles), and once I filled it before that for a reason I can't remember. I've never put in 9 full gallons, always 8.x and doing that my range has always been right around 300 miles (low of 291 and high of 316).
According to the manual, when the Low Fuel light comes on there is about 1.7 gallons before Empty, and a "small reserve" after that. So it seems to me in my car I could safely go 50 miles after the light came on but I won't be pushing and testing that until better weather when I can leave the windows open and carry a small gas can.
I suspect once I've more experience with this car and know its parameters better I'll have a usual range on a tank of gas of about 330 miles, which is acceptable for me, but everyone has their own requirements.
To date I've only filled the tank of my MT Fit Sport 3 times. MPG has ranged from 33.6 to 38.0 Two of those times the Low Fuel indicator came on and then I filled it as soon as I could (within a few miles), and once I filled it before that for a reason I can't remember. I've never put in 9 full gallons, always 8.x and doing that my range has always been right around 300 miles (low of 291 and high of 316).
According to the manual, when the Low Fuel light comes on there is about 1.7 gallons before Empty, and a "small reserve" after that. So it seems to me in my car I could safely go 50 miles after the light came on but I won't be pushing and testing that until better weather when I can leave the windows open and carry a small gas can.
I suspect once I've more experience with this car and know its parameters better I'll have a usual range on a tank of gas of about 330 miles, which is acceptable for me, but everyone has their own requirements.
To date I've only filled the tank of my MT Fit Sport 3 times. MPG has ranged from 33.6 to 38.0 Two of those times the Low Fuel indicator came on and then I filled it as soon as I could (within a few miles), and once I filled it before that for a reason I can't remember. I've never put in 9 full gallons, always 8.x and doing that my range has always been right around 300 miles (low of 291 and high of 316).
According to the manual, when the Low Fuel light comes on there is about 1.7 gallons before Empty, and a "small reserve" after that. So it seems to me in my car I could safely go 50 miles after the light came on but I won't be pushing and testing that until better weather when I can leave the windows open and carry a small gas can.
I suspect once I've more experience with this car and know its parameters better I'll have a usual range on a tank of gas of about 330 miles, which is acceptable for me, but everyone has their own requirements.
Hi zombietom3, I have logged every single one of my gas purchases at fueleconomy.gov. I bought my car on March 13, and I filled up for the first time on March 17th. I fill up approximately every two weeks. Looks like the least amount I put in was that first fillup: 8.977 gallons, and since then I put in about 9 to 9.6 gallons every time.
I tend not to fill up until the gas light has been on a while - I don't drain each tank completely, but I like to see how many miles I can get per tank. The most so far was 354.60. The least was 324.30. My best tank was 38 mpg, and my worst was 35.2. Per calculations on fueleconomy.gov and my own calculator it seems my most mileage comes when I get the most miles per tank. Logically, that makes no sense, but it is what it is.
My steady average is 36 mpg.
My Fit is a Sport MT, and my driving is mostly highway, about 30% city. I drive conservatively, and my top speed is typically 70 mph.
A big thank you for that post. I log every gas purchase too, total gallons and miles driven, plus the mpg calc. That gives me a quick indication of any unexpected change in the car's performance. I appreciate the detail you provided. Tell me one more thing if you will. When you fill up do you stop at the first automatic shut-off? The second? Thanks again.
to zombietom3: I have 31,000 miles on my fit. Have filled up 103 times so far. I like to get the most miles per tank, and also to get very accurate MPG readings. after much research, I fill up normally at a station where the Island Tilts slightly DOWNHILL to the passenger side. When the tank nozzle clicks off first, it take me 8 to 12 times to carefully actually get the tank and hose full to the cap. gallon wise, it take 2 to 3 gallons from the first kick off to get a full tank. My tank will actually hold 12.5 to 13 gallons. I have never run it totally dry. If you learn your tank, you will NOT spill any gas doing this. The lineal function of my guage continually changes. I use one of the trip guages and fill up whenever I get to 300 or 320 miles.. I love my Fit!
Thanks and ha ha. I too look for the down and away slope at the pump. You will find a lot of arguments against topping off to the max if you google topping off. Here are a few: http://www.sbcapcd.org/edu/dont-top-off.htm http://www.epa.gov/donttopoff/ http://autorepair.about.com/b/2007/12/11/topping-off-the-tank-you-might-want-to-- think-twice.htm However, before I ever heard any of that I topped off the same way you do for years and years, and at 150k miles my car isn't indicating that I ever harmed it in any way doing that. For the environment's sake I have recently modified my practice and now stop at the 2nd or 3rd shut off, which in my car is still 1/4 gallon from the top (the first shutoff is .5-.6 gallon from the top). A margin as large as you state is rather amazing.
So if you are filling up at 300-320 miles then how did you ever calculate the capacity of your tank unless your fuel efficiency is dreadfully low or you do mainly stop and go or city driving?
I have over 21,000 miles on my AT Fit. I get an average of 35 mpg; high was 39.9 (all highway, good weather, no heat or A/C, just me in the car), low was 27.7 (all city, AC on, car was very loaded down).
I usually fill up anywhere from 320 to 360 miles on the trip meter. The Fit has no problem going for quite a long time after the gas light comes on. There have been several times when I've driven all the way home to where the gas is cheaper (about 42 miles) and gotten stuck in a few small traffic snags, all without a problem.
Now that we are using winter gas here, my mileage has been a little lower, but that's to be expected. I only fill up the tank to the first click, and have put in anywhere from 8.5 to 10.3 gallons, depending on how far I've driven.
2008 Honda CR-V AWD- combined EPA average 22MPG, 15.3 gal tank = 336.6 miles.
2008 Honda Fit Manual - combined EPA average 31MPG, 10.8 gal tank = 334.8 miles.
2008 Honda Fit Auto - combined EPA average 30MPG, 10.8 gal tank = 324 miles.
The CR-V is the best selling crossover vehicle in the nation right now, and has a very similar commuting range on fuel. The manual Fit is practically identical to the CR-V as far as combined driving range.
I think the tank size thing is being blown out of proportion, but that's just one little opinion.
Tell me one more thing if you will. When you fill up do you stop at the first automatic shut-off? The second? Thanks again.
I only fill up to the first cut off, and then I tap the nozzle to get any last drops and call it a fillup. I guess I wouldn't know how much more to put in, so I just leave it at that.
For me, the extra piece of mind knowing I'm not overfilling my car and flooding any emissions equipment is worth driving 25 miles less between fillups.
I would be scared to "over-fill", and wouldn't want gas to leak down the side of the car, so I'm good with stopping when the pump says I've got enough.
And, I agree about being able to drive up to 40 or so miles with the gas empty light on, but no one wants to chance getting stuck with a dry tank, so I try to fill up fairly soon after that light goes on (though I like to push it a bit - I like to check the actual gauge versus the miles on the trip meter, and go from there - so far so good).
I usually buy fuel before my light even comes on - I try and buy it when the weather is most temperate (a quick check of the 7-Day Forecast does that for me).
Sometimes I may not use more than 10 gallons from my Accord's 17.1 gallon tank. I typically fill up and put about 12 gallons in - equaling about 320-350 miles. I like to have plenty in reserve for emergencies, getting stuck in an hours-long traffic jam, etc.
2008 Honda CR-V AWD- combined EPA average 22MPG, 15.3 gal tank = 336.6 miles.
2008 Honda Fit Manual - combined EPA average 31MPG, 10.8 gal tank = 334.8 miles.
2008 Honda Fit Auto - combined EPA average 30MPG, 10.8 gal tank = 324 miles.
The CR-V is the best selling crossover vehicle in the nation right now, and has a very similar commuting range on fuel. The manual Fit is practically identical to the CR-V as far as combined driving range.
I think the tank size thing is being blown out of proportion, but that's just one little opinion.
Thanks for the above.
As I wrote some posts ago, when we had a RAV4 with a 14.whatever G tank, we drove no further than our current Fit with a single tankful. We just paid more, that's all.
I've driven 35-40 miles after the light comes on, I think the most I've ever refilled the tank was 10.1 gallons, meaning I could have gone another 30 miles, theoretically (36 mpg with .8 gallons left). If I refill right when the light comes on, it's usually about 9.1 gallons.
My carpool lady freaks out when she sees my light come on "Oh, you need to stop for gas!!!"
So, yeah, I get about 330 miles per tank, driving a bit after the light comes on.
That sounds good. Question: If you have pumped as much as 10.1 gallons, were you filling to the brim or stopping at the first or nth shutoff? If at the first I would assume that you were about a half gallon from the brim, and if the spec of 10.8 gallons is the capacity measuring to the brim then you got about as close to empty as I would ever tempt..Excellent benchmark. Thanks.
Couple points that are simple-but some do not seem to understand. The fuel range on a vehicle is not important unless the total range is less than any normal commuiter distance. The fit give me 300 to 400 mile range per tank. That is plenty- When on a trip, I do not know anyone who can go 300 miles with out a bathroom stop anyway. You should not drive over 200 miles with out stopping just to exercise your legs. 300 mile range is OK anywhere in the USA. Total range should NOT be a factor when buying a car. COST PER MILE FOR FUEL IS IMPORTANT. Secondly: I alway top my tank off- you cannot do any harm. The only time any spillage would occur is if you fill up from a cold tank, drive no where except home, and the ambient temp rises GREATLY before car is moved. The Fit tank is easy to top off. I have put as much as 12 GALLONS in my tank on several occasions. I am guessing the total capacity is about 12.5 gallons when topped off. If you feel comfortable only filling to first shut off, that is OK. The Fit tank with the extremely long filler hose does not permit accurate tank to tank MPG checks. You will have to average several. I love my Fit.
The first thing comes across my mind would be, if someone had sabotage your car by putting water into your tank! Do you have a locking gas cap? Does the places you park your Fit is secure?
How much time does it take for you to "top off" the tank after the first auto stop? I usually only fill it till the second stop. The max amount of fuel I put into my Fit is 38 litres or about 10 US gallons, normally it is around 32 litres (~8.5 gallons). I get about 28 mpg on average and it is mostly city driving. I am very happy with my Fit.
anyone with experience on this topic care to share? my last 2 tanks were at different pumps at different gas stations. assuming that the driving condition and my driving style did not vary too much between the two tanks my calculation tells me that one pump kept going for another gallon and a half after the other shut off. I guess this makes it all the more important to use the same pump at the same station if one were to calculate MPG more precisely. on a different topic, has anyone here owned/installed Scangauge or things of that sort on their FIT? how does it work, and/or does is really work and give precise numbers as it is supposed to?
my Sports AT is still floating around the 20 MPG mark in wintry NYC...... (it has 1200 miles on it)
I've found (for me) the most consistent way to fill the tank is to push the nozzle all the way into the filler neck, then let the pump run on "auto" until it clicks off. Then wait 10 seconds or so for the air bubbles to settle. With the nozzle still deep into the neck, run the pump very slow, by hand, until it clicks off again. Done! I never fill to the brim as that can cause damage to a canister.
A gas tank can hold more or less gas, depending on how level the car is sitting.
Considering an absolutely full tank from the beginning: As fuel is used an air bubble forms in the top of the tank, just like it does when we pour liquid from a bottle. An air bubble and fuel can't occupy the same space.
Example: When fueling, if the front of the car is tilted "UP" that bubble can become trapped and the tank will hold less fuel. If the front of the car is tilted down most of the bubble can be forced to escape out the filler neck and the tank can hold more fuel.
All this will depend on how and where the filler tube is attached to the tank. So some cars may eliminate the air bubble better with the front up.
I also believe that different nozzles are more or less sensitive to shut off. With the car sitting at the same pump, at the same angle, creating or eliminating a given size air bubble, and the nozzle that shuts off the same each time will give the best tank to tank measurements. However, ambient temperature can also have some effect. So try to fill in the mornings, when temps are coolest.
I've heard and read some really good things about the Scan Gauge. I will be getting one!
had no idea pumping gas could be such an art... hahah~~
do let us know how the scangauge works! I am really interested in it, but I really, really, don't want to have to give up my stock stereo and have to buy a new one just so that the scangauge can fit in there...
With such a small gas tank like the Fit's (about 9gallon fill ups), small changes make a big difference in calculation. As long as you average over three or four tanks you'll be pretty accurate, even if one tank fills a little more or less. I've learned not to get too excited by any one tank: right after my 40 mpg tank (my highest) I got 36 (my lowest)!
do let us know how the scangauge works! I am really interested in it, but I really, really, don't want to have to give up my stock stereo and have to buy a new one just so that the scangauge can fit in there...
The Scangauge can sit on the dash. Lots of people have tried different ways to mount this thing, and some vendors even sell a bracket that mounts the Scangauge to the rear-view mirror. So you need not lose the stereo slot to install it.
I am curious about how it works, exactly. From what I can see, it is attached to the car computer...? and by doing that, it gives you the exact amount of gas you are consuming? how is that possible unless the car has a build-in mechanism that calculates the fuel consumption? if so, then why don't car companies just make that info available for drivers?! I really know very little about cars, as you can see~ but, I am willing to learn..
how is that possible unless the car has a build-in mechanism that calculates the fuel consumption? if so, then why don't car companies just make that info available for drivers?!
Some cars these days do come with drive computers that show, among other things, the mpg figures. In Japan, the Fit comes standard with the km/l gauge, which would have been nice to have in our North American Fits.
Ultimately, it is the cost that prevents all cars from having this kind of computer. Technology is and has been there for sometime now. I have a feeling that more and more cars will come with this kind of information system, which may eventually become something that everyone would expect in all cars.
Knowing at any moment in time your exact MPG is pretty useless. The manual method of just calculating at fillups will give more accurate MPG. Remember MPG stands for Miles Per Gallon. If you use a trip computer (in the car or aftermarket) to show you a current MPG, what you're really seeing is fraction of a mile per a fraction of a gallon, so it's more like feet per ounce of gas being used. In statistics, that's called a small sample versus a large miles per gallon sample, which is much more accurate. But their nice toys to play with in the car when the drive is boring
Example: Does the car get better mileage (instant) on a particular type of hill or terrain if I force it to stay in 5th gear, or would a downshift serve me better?
That subject has been debated a few time. A Scan Gage will show results instantly.
Good mileage is made up of a lot of small decisions we make. I have no problem with instant verification of whether or not something is working as intended. Gives me the opportunity to change actions on the spot.
Comments
This is a subject that can be kicked round and round with no clear winner or loosers.
My take is that the manufacturers are striving to be the clear winner in the fuel wars, for bragging rights. Honda is doing that right now. Being the "highest mileage car company on the planet", (Paraphrased) sells cars.
They spend mega bucks tweaking these things to achieve the best mileage possible and still have longevity. I'm not believing I know more than they do. I believe that if some super duper air cleaner would give better mileage while still maintaining engine longevity, they would use it. If staying in the highest gear possible would achieve the best mileage, they would not have 5 speed transmissions.
One speed would be enough!
kaydens,
With the AT in drive and on flat ground, you can accelerate while in OD without the tranny downshifting. However, once you get to a certain throttle position, I believe the ECU senses, throttle, speed, load on engine, the fact that you need more power, etc.. It downshifts the tranny to allow the engine RPM to rise and the engine to provide more power for the desired task. With more power available, and not much strain, the injectors are cut back unless you again require more throttle.
On the other hand, anyone with the mindset that they know more than the engineers, with either driving practices and/or accessories, should follow their dream.
There are all types of gadget out there. You could probably install enough to potentially double the mileage you are now getting. And maybe even double the horsepower while you are at it. Problem is that they don't really work and a lot of time you wind up with serious problems after spending a ton of money.
My advice to you is to let your transmission do what it does best. Use the paddles for fun time! :shades:
what is OD?
I keep on hearing about OD but am never sure what it is and how to set my car to OD.
anyone cares to elaborate?
I agree with Jacksan1.
To go a little farther, You might wonder why it is called overdrive (OD) .
To clarify a question you had earlier, And there are exceptions:
In days of yore, 1st gear picked up the name of LOW gear. Then there was likely a 2nd gear and finally a 3rd or HIGH gear in most American made cars. Some imports, which were a novelty until the VW Beetle, had 4 speed transmissions. In that case you had 1st(low), 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (high). The 4 speed cars generally had small engines and needed the extra gear to help maintain higher engine RPM to stay on the power curve. Larger Trucks also often had more than 3 gears, for the same reason.
High gear was most always a 1:1 ratio between the output of the engine crank shaft and the drive shaft going to the drive axle. High gear also was known as the "Drive" gear. No matter how many gears were between Low and high/drive, drive was still a 1:1 ratio.
Somewhere along the line someone decided that since engines were becoming more efficient and more powerful the highest gear could be change to another ratio that would speed up the drive shaft a bit. At a given engine RPM the drive shaft would turn a little faster than it had before. So now that gear was considered to be higher or "OVER" the drive gear. In the case of a 4 speed tranny we now had 1st (Low), 2nd, 3rd (high or drive), and 4th (over drive).
In modern cars, 4th and 5th gear might both actually be "overdrives", although the accepted term for OD is still pretty much, as Jacksan1 said, 5th gear.
There are other factors that determine how fast the rear wheels turn when compared to the spinning drive shaft. Namely the axle ratio. Example:
If the axle ratio is 3:1, the drive shaft will turn 3 RPM for every 1 rpm of the drive wheels. With a 4:1 axle, the drive shaft will turn 4 times for every 1 rpm of the wheels. So, as you can see, the manufacturers can use combinations of gear ratios in the tranny and axle ratios at the drive wheels to accomplish their needs.
The faster the engine turns, when compared to the drive wheels, the more power there is available to those wheels. We just need to keep in mind that the engine needs to be kept in it's "Happy Zone" to deliver the best mileage and longevity.
Those driving MT also known as Manual Transmissions, Stick Shifts, Straight shifts, etc. can figure this out by the engines lack of power, bucking, rattling, and so forth. With Automatics the Torque converter may unlock to take advantage of the internal slippage of fluids to compensate for an overloaded engine, or it will down shift if WE LET IT !
I sincerely believe that the best way to maximize economy from an AT is to use the throttle gently. If you can keep it from down shifting, or persuade it that it needs to up shift, you are helping things. Whenever it shifts, there is a correlation between your foot and the load on the engine. The tranny is doing it's best to deliver the best solution for the conditions the engine is dealing with.
If you use the paddles to force it to do things it is not programmed to do, well.... :confuse:
Kip
It was just one Toyota model that was in comparison, and they only ran this test on one day, so I don't give too much credence to the result. Nevertheless, it was an interesting read.
Speaking of a Japanese auto mag and mileage comparsions, a lot of their auto enthusiast mags over there do regular mileage comparisons (instead of "Wow, this Corvette is fast!"), and often rather thoroughly too. One magazine I love always takes three competing cars out at the same time, driving them together on city streets, expressways, country roads, and back to city streets, and show the mileage difference in each environment. Since three cars drive together simultaneously, driving conditions are effectively controlled, which makes for a good comparison. They do this in every issue.
100% in stop-n-go NYC traffic
18.4 MPG........!!!!!
yikes
and warming up car for Winter...It was advertised to receive 27mpg so I will take this with a smile. Now on my next tank I will not baby it and enjoy the peppiness-and I'll report back with that mileage..Noticed that with the gas gauge completely on empty-It still had 2 gal of as in the tank...
Maybe some people want to fill up before it's on "E" especially in the winter it's safer to fill up at the quarter mark. Most cars leave leave you with a gallon or so as a reserve. My other car has a 19gal tank but when it shows empty I usually can only put in 16-17 gal, so this isn't anything unusual to the Fit.
Your choice...but if you browse on every board in the Edmunds forum and look for the worse case you'll never buy any car
I think it's pretty standard to have 2 gallons on reserve when it shows empty, would you want your tank to REALLY be empty when it shows so? you'll be calling AAA every 3 days! if the you would cross a perfectly good car off your list of possible choices because of it's smaller than usual tank, then you should do it. But the tank size has nothing to do with the mileage it gets per gallon...
Considering that the Fit's real tank capacity is less than the specified 10.8 gallons because the top .3-.5 gallons is not available if the driver avoids topping off (stop at the second automatic shut-off, having read all the warnings against over-filling), and the usable capacity is .5 gallons less than that if the low-fuel warning can be trusted to allow the driver to fill up with only .5 gallons remaining as a safety margin That gets the useful capacity down to not more than 9.8 gallons, unacceptable if I were unlucky enough to get only 25 mpg in normal driving (reason enough to dump the car or not buy it in the first place), providing a measly 245 mile range, and minimally acceptable if I got an average of 30.9 mpg for mixed driving, providing a range of 300 miles . The Fit can be great in every other respect and I still will not buy it if I have to stop for gas sooner than that. The 8.7-8.8 gallon fill-ups I read about here are ludicrous to me unless the car gets at least 35 mpg with mixed driving.
I'm looking for reasons to keep the Fit on my list, not for reasons to kick it off, but this issue might be the kicker.
I'm thinking you have your signals crossed. A competent driver will always be sure there is enough fuel in the tank for something unexpected. Only an "Airhead" would drain the tank to it's lowest possible point before refilling. :sick:
Kip
So this is with your current car? It's the same with the Fit then. Once the warning light comes on your can trust it, drive a little longer and still be safe.
Besides, if you're not going to buy the Fit because of concerns of when the low fuel warning light comes on, well that's your choice. So what vehicle are you going to buy because of this significant defect
According to the manual, when the Low Fuel light comes on there is about 1.7 gallons before Empty, and a "small reserve" after that. So it seems to me in my car I could safely go 50 miles after the light came on but I won't be pushing and testing that until better weather when I can leave the windows open and carry a small gas can.
I suspect once I've more experience with this car and know its parameters better I'll have a usual range on a tank of gas of about 330 miles, which is acceptable for me, but everyone has their own requirements.
According to the manual, when the Low Fuel light comes on there is about 1.7 gallons before Empty, and a "small reserve" after that. So it seems to me in my car I could safely go 50 miles after the light came on but I won't be pushing and testing that until better weather when I can leave the windows open and carry a small gas can.
I suspect once I've more experience with this car and know its parameters better I'll have a usual range on a tank of gas of about 330 miles, which is acceptable for me, but everyone has their own requirements.
According to the manual, when the Low Fuel light comes on there is about 1.7 gallons before Empty, and a "small reserve" after that. So it seems to me in my car I could safely go 50 miles after the light came on but I won't be pushing and testing that until better weather when I can leave the windows open and carry a small gas can.
I suspect once I've more experience with this car and know its parameters better I'll have a usual range on a tank of gas of about 330 miles, which is acceptable for me, but everyone has their own requirements.
I tend not to fill up until the gas light has been on a while - I don't drain each tank completely, but I like to see how many miles I can get per tank. The most so far was 354.60. The least was 324.30. My best tank was 38 mpg, and my worst was 35.2. Per calculations on fueleconomy.gov and my own calculator it seems my most mileage comes when I get the most miles per tank. Logically, that makes no sense, but it is what it is.
My steady average is 36 mpg.
My Fit is a Sport MT, and my driving is mostly highway, about 30% city. I drive conservatively, and my top speed is typically 70 mph.
I love my Fit.
I have 31,000 miles on my fit. Have filled up 103 times so far.
I like to get the most miles per tank, and also to get very accurate MPG readings.
after much research, I fill up normally at a station where the Island Tilts slightly DOWNHILL to the passenger side. When the tank nozzle clicks off first, it take me 8 to 12 times to carefully actually get the tank and hose full to the cap. gallon wise, it take 2 to 3 gallons from the first kick off to get a full tank. My tank will
actually hold 12.5 to 13 gallons. I have never run it totally dry. If you learn your tank, you will NOT spill any gas doing this. The lineal function of my guage
continually changes. I use one of the trip guages and fill up whenever I get to 300 or 320 miles.. I love my Fit!
http://www.sbcapcd.org/edu/dont-top-off.htm
http://www.epa.gov/donttopoff/
http://autorepair.about.com/b/2007/12/11/topping-off-the-tank-you-might-want-to-- think-twice.htm
However, before I ever heard any of that I topped off the same way you do for years and years, and at 150k miles my car isn't indicating that I ever harmed it in any way doing that. For the environment's sake I have recently modified my practice and now stop at the 2nd or 3rd shut off, which in my car is still 1/4 gallon from the top (the first shutoff is .5-.6 gallon from the top). A margin as large as you state is rather amazing.
So if you are filling up at 300-320 miles then how did you ever calculate the capacity of your tank unless your fuel efficiency is dreadfully low or you do mainly stop and go or city driving?
http://www.sbcapcd.org/edu/dont-top-off.htm
http://www.epa.gov/donttopoff/
http://autorepair.about.com/b/2007/12/11/topping-off-the-tank-you-might-want-to-- - - think-twice.htm
However, before I ever heard any of that I topped off the same way you do for years and years, and at 150k miles my car isn't indicating that I ever harmed it in any way doing that. "
Just kinda make ya wonder why those folks go to all that trouble :confuse:
I usually fill up anywhere from 320 to 360 miles on the trip meter. The Fit has no problem going for quite a long time after the gas light comes on. There have been several times when I've driven all the way home to where the gas is cheaper (about 42 miles) and gotten stuck in a few small traffic snags, all without a problem.
Now that we are using winter gas here, my mileage has been a little lower, but that's to be expected. I only fill up the tank to the first click, and have put in anywhere from 8.5 to 10.3 gallons, depending on how far I've driven.
2008 Honda Fit Manual - combined EPA average 31MPG, 10.8 gal tank = 334.8 miles.
2008 Honda Fit Auto - combined EPA average 30MPG, 10.8 gal tank = 324 miles.
The CR-V is the best selling crossover vehicle in the nation right now, and has a very similar commuting range on fuel. The manual Fit is practically identical to the CR-V as far as combined driving range.
I think the tank size thing is being blown out of proportion, but that's just one little opinion.
Tell me one more thing if you will. When you fill up do you stop at the first automatic shut-off? The second? Thanks again.
I only fill up to the first cut off, and then I tap the nozzle to get any last drops and call it a fillup. I guess I wouldn't know how much more to put in, so I just leave it at that.
And, I agree about being able to drive up to 40 or so miles with the gas empty light on, but no one wants to chance getting stuck with a dry tank, so I try to fill up fairly soon after that light goes on (though I like to push it a bit - I like to check the actual gauge versus the miles on the trip meter, and go from there - so far so good).
Sometimes I may not use more than 10 gallons from my Accord's 17.1 gallon tank. I typically fill up and put about 12 gallons in - equaling about 320-350 miles. I like to have plenty in reserve for emergencies, getting stuck in an hours-long traffic jam, etc.
I would rather have it and not need it , than need it and not have it.
Kip
2008 Honda Fit Manual - combined EPA average 31MPG, 10.8 gal tank = 334.8 miles.
2008 Honda Fit Auto - combined EPA average 30MPG, 10.8 gal tank = 324 miles.
The CR-V is the best selling crossover vehicle in the nation right now, and has a very similar commuting range on fuel. The manual Fit is practically identical to the CR-V as far as combined driving range.
I think the tank size thing is being blown out of proportion, but that's just one little opinion.
Thanks for the above.
As I wrote some posts ago, when we had a RAV4 with a 14.whatever G tank, we drove no further than our current Fit with a single tankful. We just paid more, that's all.
My carpool lady freaks out when she sees my light come on "Oh, you need to stop for gas!!!"
So, yeah, I get about 330 miles per tank, driving a bit after the light comes on.
any one care to chime in on how Ethanol proportion effects MPG?
Secondly: I alway top my tank off- you cannot do any harm. The only time any spillage would occur is if you fill up from a cold tank, drive no where except home, and the ambient temp rises GREATLY before car is moved. The Fit tank is easy to top off. I have put as much as 12 GALLONS in my tank on several occasions.
I am guessing the total capacity is about 12.5 gallons when topped off. If you feel comfortable only filling to first shut off, that is OK. The Fit tank with the extremely long filler hose does not permit accurate tank to tank MPG checks. You will have to average several.
I love my Fit.
on a different topic, has anyone here owned/installed Scangauge or things of that sort on their FIT? how does it work, and/or does is really work and give precise numbers as it is supposed to?
my Sports AT is still floating around the 20 MPG mark in wintry NYC...... (it has 1200 miles on it)
I never fill to the brim as that can cause damage to a canister.
A gas tank can hold more or less gas, depending on how level the car is sitting.
Considering an absolutely full tank from the beginning: As fuel is used an air bubble forms in the top of the tank, just like it does when we pour liquid from a bottle. An air bubble and fuel can't occupy the same space.
Example: When fueling, if the front of the car is tilted "UP" that bubble can become trapped and the tank will hold less fuel. If the front of the car is tilted down most of the bubble can be forced to escape out the filler neck and the tank can hold more fuel.
All this will depend on how and where the filler tube is attached to the tank. So some cars may eliminate the air bubble better with the front up.
I also believe that different nozzles are more or less sensitive to shut off. With the car sitting at the same pump, at the same angle, creating or eliminating a given size air bubble, and the nozzle that shuts off the same each time will give the best tank to tank measurements. However, ambient temperature can also have some effect. So try to fill in the mornings, when temps are coolest.
I've heard and read some really good things about the Scan Gauge. I will be getting one!
Kip
do let us know how the scangauge works! I am really interested in it, but I really, really, don't want to have to give up my stock stereo and have to buy a new one just so that the scangauge can fit in there...
The Scangauge can sit on the dash. Lots of people have tried different ways to mount this thing, and some vendors even sell a bracket that mounts the Scangauge to the rear-view mirror. So you need not lose the stereo slot to install it.
I really know very little about cars, as you can see~ but, I am willing to learn..
http://www.scangauge.com/
Some cars these days do come with drive computers that show, among other things, the mpg figures. In Japan, the Fit comes standard with the km/l gauge, which would have been nice to have in our North American Fits.
Ultimately, it is the cost that prevents all cars from having this kind of computer. Technology is and has been there for sometime now. I have a feeling that more and more cars will come with this kind of information system, which may eventually become something that everyone would expect in all cars.
That subject has been debated a few time. A Scan Gage will show results instantly.
Good mileage is made up of a lot of small decisions we make. I have no problem with instant verification of whether or not something is working as intended. Gives me the opportunity to change actions on the spot.
Kip