Toyota TACOMA vs Ford RANGER - VI

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Comments

  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Yes so far the work looks good.

    Clean newer shop, people good to work with. Think they farmed out the paintless repair though.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    I know fire spreads in the tree tops.

    I was refering to the standing dead and the fuel on the floor.

    What do you have against people gathering wood and putting it in a truck bed off of a limited access road? Some people in that area heat homes in the winter based on the gathered firewood, saving by not using gas or oil which is not renewable.

    That is just common environmental sense.

    Remember, nature does have a way or renewing the planet and has done that since long before man was here. How else would the planet have gotten from volcanic periods to periods of lush growth?

    You see, that is the reason the extream far to the left "...protect till the last ant.." attitude breaks down.

    Man, with his superior brain, can and does assist nature in management or the environment. Take the Buffalo Creek blaze a few years ago. Man did attempt to re-forest/grass areas to prevent runoff due to the fire. It made it a bit better than if nothing was done.

    Now when you deny access vs restrict access, man cannot get to areas when it is needed.

    Plus, seriously, look at the true reasons for the grabbing of land. You will find massive oil reserves that cannot be tapped resulting in being dependent on foreign oil to be a very major reason. Like that $2.00+ a gallon gas?
  • hindsitehindsite Member Posts: 590
    How does hunting contribute to the environment?
  • mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    "Take the Buffalo Creek blaze a few years ago. Man did attempt to re-forest/grass areas to prevent runoff due to the fire. It made it a bit better than if nothing was done."

    I am not really disagreeing with you because I struggle with these issues but did the replanting make it better for nature or just easier for man to deal with nature? Nature can do just fine adapting to its own natural processes.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Think of hunting as population management.

    With the demise of natural predators (wolves, bears, foxes, coyotes, etc...) caused by man, the population of various game animals ends up being controlled by starvation.

    Which would you consider better for an animal, a bullet or starvation?

    As a hunter, I also eat what I kill. Poaching and other detrimental actions to the environment are looked down on by the general hunting community. Hunting usually goes hand in hand with conservation and the preservation of our wildlands.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Get out and try one if you get the chance. I got hooked. Now, I've got 5 for just my wife and I.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    in that fire by Pine, Co. Just finished building a log house himself, except for the roof which he had done.

    They are saying it was lightning that started it either hitting a tree or the ground.

    spoog, I do not disagree with you regarding how fires spread, but, things on the ground that are combustable will burn.

    Additionally, to deny access allows existing trails to deteriorate. If, in the future, you HAVE to access that area for say fire fighting, the roads will not be there.

    I am reminded of two things, the fire in Mission Valley near San Diego 10 years ago and the the huge fire in Australia a few years back. In BOTH cases, government got involved and told people they could NOT clear out brush, small and or large dead trees etc. Had to save the golden tufted sap sucker rabbit (made that up, but it was true that it was to protect the environment).

    Well, a fire hit both places. Fueled by the dry dead trees/brush that the Governments would not let property owners clear, San Diego lost 120+ homes and just burned everything to the ground. Australia had a National Park and hundreds of homes go up in flames.

    Now fire in these places has it's good points. In the case of Australia, all the old gorwth had become rampant with desease, paracites, and were not faring well. Also, the fire released seeds that formed HEALTHY new growth forests providing cover and food for the returning animals.

    The earth HEALS, always has, always will. As long as when you are out there you follow a simple code of conduct, the environment is safe.

    Protect wilderness? YES, or coarse. But is it right to build MORE wilderness and upset/effect the lives of thousands/millions for no good reason?

    I enjoy going to the forest, looking at and yes, hunting to help manage the animal resourses. The choice of starvation or a bullet is easy one.

    I found a great code of conduct for off-roading and will try to get it to post here.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    The wife said I can get a Ramsey 8000 winch for Fathers Day! On sale on line for $449.95.

    Gonna get some RS9000 shocks too. Same site has them "Buy 3 get one free."

    Slowly but surely improving on a currently very good platform.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    today. The wrong glass came in. Getting it tomorrow.

    Scottsss, Standars is putting a glaze job on the truck for free. Shines BETTER than like a new penny, more like a mercury coated dime! They did, in my opinion, a great job on the truck.

    It will be down there if you want to shoot by tomorrow. A Platimum Supercab. Talk to Brad if you want to see an example of the work by looking at mine.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    I'm not a hunter myself but I respect you for that fact that you eat what you hunt. It really bothers me to see someone kill an animal and leave it to rot. We just had deer hunting resumed in Yosemite National Park because the deer population got so large that adequate food was not available and they were starving. The predators have been wiped out of a lot of areas, so I agree with you that hunting is certainly necessary to control animal populations.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    I too eat what I hunt/fish(with no apology to the catch and release crowd).

    However, all taking, for lack of a better word, of managed anamals has a purpose. Even if an over populated, very destructive species, such as the coyote, is left, scavengers get an easy meal and survive another day. The coyote is so destructive in this state the season runs
    1/1-12/31, no bag limit. Same for the cute little prairie dogs who are very destructive to livestock and horses.

    You might disagree with that, which is your right howerver, that is the way it is.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    The calcium of bones left in the field are used by many animals to get an intake of the mineral, poduce harder shelled eggs or any other number of reasons.

    BTW if you have ever seen a coyote run down an antelope, it is not pretty. Saw that once thanks to being able to cross a 2 mile set of field in my Ranger.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Thanks for the words of support.

    One area that I disagree with is hunting top-level predators and endangered species. I don't see the reason for hunting grizzlies, blackies, wolves, and various big cats. A large predator will range many 10s of square miles, and taking just a few of these animals can very easily rid an entire area of its population.
  • meredithmeredith Member Posts: 575
    Before we go TOO far afield....

    let me say that MAN is the ULTIMATE predator.... I was raised to eat what you shoot/catch, the exception being "pests" such as groundhogs, mice, rats, and now coyotes. The occasional predator will require "culling," they get old and lazy, and it is easier to kill a sheep or household pet than to bring down a deer. At that point it is time to remove the risk as small children may be next on the food chain.

    The major issue is DEER.

    In the east the problem is endemic. The deer have no natural predator save man (read AUTOMOBILE). But you can't harvest them sensibly (What? Shoot Bambi?) and so human lives are endangered so human sensibilities of a cartoon character need not be offended.

    A deer strike with a 97 Suburban did $3500+ in damages (a large buck!), had we been driving the 87 Cherokee or any normal sized sedan, the vehicle would have been totaled - with possible serious injuries. My Maryland county alone had 400+ deer strikes last year....

    Nature WILL redress the balance....

    Now.... back to Trucks....

    Front Porch Philosopher
    SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host

    Hunter
    Fisherman
    RKBA Advocate
    Defense Conservative
    Social Liberal (from when it wasn't a term of derision)
    Fiscal Moderate....
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    lol!

    I saw that epsiode as well. It was on TNN Redneck TV. I think it's called something like the "4x4 show".

    Two hosts with mild southern accents worked on that Dodge with the tracks. I too saw it mash and destroy everything in it's path. These yahoos were driving over unroaded streambeds, plants, shrubs and so forth. I could see if they were corssing a previous road into the stream, but this borderd on irresponsible.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    meredith:
    I KNEW there was something I liked about you!

    Bet you chew too and support NRA too. . .

    spoog:
    I am sure there is no wood in your house, correct because if there is, it was logged and more than likely brought out on a Ford or International.

    Well, in Pine Colo, the only thing left, other than the rocks, bricks and burned out vehicles is the trees that were standing at the time of the fire. Burned badly but the only thing standing.

    If it is on the ground and is not real green or wet, it will burn. Want to talk to my coworker who just lost his $300,000 brand new log house or the 4 people across the street from him that also lost everything?

    For man and nature to exist together, there must be some form of management by man. Won't always work, but it has to be there.

    BTW, if that show was done on private land, it is none of your business what they do.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    to be started in NM more than likely just before he sped off in his Tacoma TRD.

    Who is to be held responsible? If MY truck started a fire like that I know darn well I would be held responsible by the forest service.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    That's not the point and you know it. Regardless of where they filmed the show, it is irresponsible behavior and they are promoting it by airing the footage. People like that are going to get all of us kicked off a lot of public land if nothing is done about it. And if it was done on private land, they could have at least mentioned that it was private and to stay on established trails on public land.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    There is a LARGE undecided mainstream that determines who does what and when.

    I have always said that the offroaders WORST enemy is stupid offroaders, not left wing extremists.

    I STILL maintain that hunting's worst enemy is stupid "hunters", not PETA.

    Hunting and offroading kind of fall in with the same crowd.....

    It is about presenting the best possible image with those activities that keeps those privelages intact.

    Offroading is touchy, because what we do IMPACTS other people's enjoyment of the outdoors.

    People who enjoy hiking can't and don't infringe on our activities , nor do they distrub us in pursuit of those activities. But offroading has the potenetial to really screw up the land if done by idiots. This EFFECTS others who enjoy other activites in the outdoors.

    The activity of offroading sometimes TAKES from the land.

    THe activity of hunting TAKES from the land.

    The activity of hiking does not. The activity of bird watching does not. The activity of enjoying motro-free areas does not.


    The activities that have the potential to ruin others experiences and the ones that take from the land need to be done as responsibly as possible. Thats the price we pay for choosing activites that take.
  • hindsitehindsite Member Posts: 590
    "Population management," sounds nice since you are on the hunting end of the stick.

    Starvation by nature unless it is due to man's neglect and urbran sprawl. Then it would be the responsibilty of man protect nature.
  • hindsitehindsite Member Posts: 590
    Well, you are going to improve an already good platform? The Tacoma TRD needs none of that :)
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    True on both counts.

    Remember too that man is a predator (and a damn destructive one too, unfortunately).
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Yes the worst enemy of an off-roader is an irresponsible off-roader. BUT and irresponsible hiker can be just as bad by:
    -Failure to follow posted trails.

    -Allowing their dogs to run free(Boulder just passed a law that man is their "guardian" not owner, kind of a weird attitude.

    -Irresponsible fire use, like NOT in an fire circle(heck I learned that in Scouts, an organization that some want to see disbanded.

    -Not taking out the trash hauled in.

    As long as 4 wheelers stay on the assigned roads, maintain the roads to allow good access, reducing the need to go off the beaten path, things will be ok. But I do not think, like in the case of Al Unser, who was fined 10K when he got lost and crossed over onto Wilderness area while trying to get back to the approved trail, that people should be hammered for making a slight mistake. Take the case of cross county skiers that OFTEN, WILLFULLY depart approve trails, cause sometimes deadly snow slides and force local rescue groups large sums of money to find them. And no fines are ever issued in those cases.

    Heck last year they had a group of people that went up over Guinella Pass, when it was reported that high winds and snow were coming into the area. The cost on that was 10K AND searching for them caused the officials to tramp through the tundra area, causing some damage too.

    So just do not jump on the loggers, guys trying to make a living and off-roader trying to enjoy a sport. The so called nature lovers, hikers, etc cause their share too.

    Again, if you believe it or not, nature does heal itself. Always has, always will. Show me a case that that has never happened and you cannot cite Exxon Valdes, Mt Pinatubo, Mt Etna, Mt St. Helens, or even the oil platforms (now ruled illegal, like them high gas prices?) off the CA coast.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    \\But I do not think, like in the case of Al
    Unser, who was fined 10K when he got lost and
    crossed over onto Wilderness area while trying to
    get back to the approved trail, that people should
    be hammered for making a slight mistake\\


    Al Unser is an idiot, and should have been fined more than that. HE EVEN had the gall to file a lawsuit against the NAtional Forest. THEN he went before congress with Ted "wild and free" Nugent, claiming that wilderness areas should be opened up with roads.

    For the record, Unser was REPEATEDLY warned by the Ranger in the South San Juan wilderness to "not go in there".

    Unser responded at one time, " I can go in there anytime I want, and you can't catch me!".


    So, he and his buddy decided to rip through the non-motorzed wilderness on their sleds. Low and behold, he got stuck, and was lost in the wilderness. He walked out, luckily. The Rangers found his sled deep within the wilderness boundary, and so he was fined.

    Unser is an idiot. There ar eplaces motors don't belong. And car racing stinks in general. What a boring sport, and what a waste of gas.
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147
    I as a backcountry skier HATE the Snowmobile. It is becuase of the irresponsible approach to the sport.. on known cross country trails they shoot around at 30 mph.. thats like driving on the sidewalk for all us people on foot... Most have little to NO avalanch training making it UNSAFE for all of us that do.. And the Popular act of "highmarking" has led to many avalanches endagering all on the mountain.

    Not to mention the air and noise polution that a 2 stroke engine puts out..
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    I don't snow mobile or snow ski, too damn cold for me. I am an avid power boater. Your attitude is the same as fishermen vs. jet skiers, power boater vs. sail boats (sail boats always have the right of way, however) I'm just curious why one recreation or hobby is more important then another? I want your opinion and I'm not starting a flame war. Have you ever thought that you irritate the snow mobilers? Always in the way...Blah blah blah. My feeling on humanity is that some one can always find fault with what some else does. So in the words of the great Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    spoog says:
    "...And car racing stinks in general. What a
    boring sport, and what a waste of gas."

    Oh but street racing, which you brag about often is ok, right?

    Post your supporting data regarding Unser otherwise it is your OPINION.

    In regard to NASCAR racing, it is a sport/skill that causes much less damage to the environment than racing thru mudded Ill. cow pastures. . .

    So much built up hate, spoog. No I do not disagree with you or scottsss that snowmobiles should not have freerun in the forests.

    However, my point was this. On one case you have a guy crossing into restricted areas getting fined 10K, you have another case of a guy ordering a controlled burn in 70mph windy conditions resulting in hundreds of houses and thousands of acres of virgin timber getting burned down receiving no fine and allowed to retire.

    BOTH could be considered idiots.

    My own opinion, ATV's, snow mobiles, 4 wheel drive vehicles, etc should be used responsibly. I have NO concern if someone uses one to go tend thier cattle who are starving in a huge blizzard, they are doing work that is much harder then my job, or even if they use them for recreation. I, unlike some, willingly SHARE the natural wonders of this land, rather than locking them up for the use of just the few.

    I would like to do a survey sometime on the ACTUAL use numbers on the Wilderness areas. I would suspect the number of visitors to them is very, very low. The end result is to cram more 4 wheel drive vehicles in smaller areas, doing more damage to those areas.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Got the truck back yesterday. Looks great!

    xena1:
    Will be hitting the trails this weekend checking out the Westcliffe area.

    Winch should be here in a few days. Got the Ramsey REP 8000, Class III hitch platform and roller fairline adaptor for about half the cost of buying it in town. Looking to put on a front hitch next weekend and test out the winch. As long as there is a tree 90 ft away, the Ranger will go anywhere.

    Anyone have experience with anchors for winching? Looks like a shovel, you bury it in the ground as a winch point?

    Oh, BTW, the Ranger has the areas under the rear seats for storage of the winch accessories plus my tool kits, tow strap, gloves, straps, spare parts, etc.

    Where would you store that kind of stuff on a Tacoma?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Whoa! this room has roared back to life. The weather is beautiful up here in the NW. After all that rain, it really pays off. Lakes are clear, rivers running clear, air is clear. From a point I go to on MT Hood, I can see MT Rainer, MT ST Helens, and the 3 Sisters, and MT Jefferson! Took my girls up too and they enjoy going up into the Cascades and just looking around. Its a shame a few have to ruin it for the many. I never, ever go off trail or path that hasn't been established or is obviously being used. Once in a while I see some young alpha males trying to do something stupid or make their own trails.. It really makes my adrenalin levels go up. In the future I really see the areas in which I can explore being severly limited.. Its just a matter of time.
    CP, the answer your going to get from a Toyota owner is, "Tacoma's can't get stuck, nor ever get flat tires". LOL!!
  • mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    There are two storage compartments in the x-cab where I keep a tool set, tow strap, bungy cords, etc.
  • xena1axena1a Member Posts: 286
    Vince -
    A few years back, my wife and I spent about a week in Bend, OR. Beautiful country. Enjoyed it very much. Man, they make good beer up there!!!

    Cpousnr -
    Glad to hear about your truck. 2 weeks until I head up to Westcliffe. Can't wait! I was sorry to hear about the fires. When I drive from Westcliffe to Louisville, I always take US 285. That goes right through the affected area. I wonder if that route will be accessible by July 4th?
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    285 should be fully opened by then. My boss' mom lives up there (her house has been spared so far) and they told her they estimate that she can go back home around the 25th of June. Only an estimate, but the cooler weather and lighter winds lately are definitely helping out.
  • xena1axena1a Member Posts: 286
    Thanks for the info. Appreciate it...
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Why is it that a sport would be looked down upon because it involved an engine?

    If there were a 4 cycle engine readily available in my price range, I'd gladly look into it. The only manufacturer I know of that makes one is Redline. This is their first year of production with a total output of 800 sleds costing around $10,000 each (if you can even get one that is).

    About the only people that can throw the pollution flag would be those who don't own an automobile, don't use electricity, and don't use manufactured goods.

    If you think that all snowmobilers are irresponsible and all skiers are wonderful, responsible nature lovers that never cause any problems, I think you might need to reassess your views.

    Have you ever heard of back country skiers? How many slides do they cause a year? How much does it cost the taxpayer to find these idiots who like to go off the marked trails and get themselves lost?


    BTW, I snowmobile only in Wisconsin (primarily flatland) and only on trails that are clearly marked for snowmobile use only.

    I apologize if I come off as abrasive, but I get really damn sick of people condemning recreational activities (such as snowmobiling) with the high and mighty environmentalist attitude when they damage the environment in other ways.

    I'm also sorry if you're having problems with idiots riding on skiing only trails. Maybe you should try taking this up with a park ranger or local law enforcement.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    "
    "I don't snow mobile or snow ski, too damn cold for
    me. I am an avid power boater. Your attitude is
    the same as fishermen vs. jet skiers, power boater
    vs. sail boats (sail boats always have the right of
    way, however) I'm just curious why one recreation
    or hobby is more important then another? I want
    your opinion and I'm not starting a flame war. Have
    you ever thought that you irritate the snow
    mobilers? Always in the way...Blah blah blah. My
    feeling on humanity is that some one can always
    find fault with what some else does. So in the
    words of the great Rodney King, "Can't we all just
    get along?"



    The difference is that motored vehicles TAKE from the land, while walking or cross country skiing exudes a FAR LESS toll on the surroundings.

    Lets look at the facts:



    1. Motors are very noisy
    2. The wake from faster boats is LARGER
    3. ATV's rip new trails if not used properly
    4. 2 stroke engines are foul, antiquate designs, causing very bad air pollution.



    1. Crosscountry skiers- NO noise, no impact
    2. Fishermen in canoes- no wake, no noisy motor,
    no pollution



    If anyone can't see why MOTORS infringe on peoples enjoyment, you are clueless.

    Im not against motors, but please, wake up and acknowledge the facts.

    MOTORIZED ACTIVITIES infringe on others enjoyment.

    Hikers, canoers and cross country skiers DO NOT infringe on others enjoyment.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    give up your rights.

    You have a voice, if someone is "...infringing..." on what you think is your enjoyment, understand that YOU are infringing on THEIR enjoyment.

    That is the problem with many so called environmentalist.

    NO comprimise. and the frankly is B__S___.
    You don't like the noise, ask nicely and they may move otherwise, hike your but 20 mile into the wilderness, where your alone, and leave the majority alone.

    cthompson:
    I do not particularly LIKE some of the snowmobiles and ATV's when they do dumb things like chase deer/elk and bother me while I am hunting. BUT I FULLY understand their right to "...life, liberty and the persuit of happiness...".

    Some people here cannot even tell me what document that came from.

    As long as you follow the rules with off-road or snow vehicles, that is ok with me. It is a VERY large and beautiful country out there that we all enjoy in many different ways.

    But if you do not follow the rules and are a threat to me, better take my Univ. of Smith and Wesson sticker seriously. Model 27's are rather accurate and can take out a tire at more distance than you may imagine.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    lets see what spoog has to say on the enviornment:

    Tacoma vs Ranger I post #204
    “Oh, that little supercharger allows me to beat
    mustangs off the line, and pass many cars on the
    highway. You should see the look on the mustang
    drivers faces when a pickup blows by them.
    Or, better yet, the foolish Ranger drivers who see
    my black beauty parked at the light next to them,
    and try to race me. Muhahahahahahaha!
    Imagine that! They cant EVEN come close to me,
    I mean, I outrun them so fast it is funny.”

    Real friendly to MY enviornment, the highway.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    but I agree!
    Tacoma vs Ranger I #467

    "I AGREE that the RANGER is a BETTER VALUE. Ok?
    There, I said it. I am tired of all this useless
    bickering and stat-ignoring.
    '
    FOR THE MONEY< THE RANGER IS A BETTER VALUE.

    IT ALSO HAS A MORE COMFY INTERIOR AND IT LOOKS
    BETTER TO ME ON THE INSIDE."
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    in your image spoog BUT,

    Not everyone has the ability to crosscounty ski or canoe a lake. Some see the great outdoors in power boats, snow mobiles and Rangers and Tacomas.

    You have NO right to deny them access just because you do not agree.

    Do not turn around too slow spoog, your Tacoma just may be on a hit list as being dangerious to the environment and be listed on some executive order somewhere.

    BTW I feel fortunate to have grown up at a time where I could and did own, without government restrictions, a 69 Coronet 500, 383CID with 345 hp v8 that would rip the paint off that fancy Tacoma of yours as it passed it by. Those were the days. Sorry for you that you missed those days. It was a heck of a decade,. . .

    Also, BTW, my Ranger emissions puts out water, a small bit of C02 and cleaner air than it take into the intake.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    in regard to canoing, every canoe Lake Powell?

    Know where Lake Powell is and how big it is? Try Southern Utah and Northern Az, and maybe 1000 mile of shoreline under 110 degree, if your lucky, heat.

    Want to canoe that?

    Be realistic spoog, not everyone thinks like you.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    in regard to canoing, ever canoe Lake Powell?

    Know where Lake Powell is and how big it is? Try Southern Utah and Northern Az, and maybe 1000 mile of shoreline under 110 degree, if your lucky, heat.

    Want to canoe that?

    Be realistic spoog, not everyone thinks like you.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Better get that Electric Tacoma . Muhahahahah.

    1. Motors are very noisy........sometimes.

    2.The wakes from faster boats is larger......My 100 mph tunnel boat has a very small wake. barely in the water when it's packing air.

    3. ATV's rip new trails when not used properly......OK, and inconsiderate hikers leave their $h!t behind too. I see,.. all non-motorized users of our land are perfect.

    4. 2 stroke...blah blah blah... don't know about snow mobiles but personal watercraft are starting to run converters and out boards are going to 4 strokes and fuel injected 2 strokes.

    Spoog, get off your high horse. You race on the street(thanx cpousner) you put a super charger on your truck that uses more fuel when under boost and therefore pollutes more and given your past you'll most likely repeat this same argument 500 times this month.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    in regard to canoing, ever canoe Lake Powell?

    Know where Lake Powell is and how big it is? Try Southern Utah and Northern Az, and maybe 1000 mile of shoreline under 110 degree, if your lucky, heat.

    Want to canoe that?

    Be realistic spoog, not everyone thinks like you.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Anyone ever install one?

    Looking for advice for installing one on 99 Ranger.

    Ah, a cool rain in colo...helping the fire situation.

    Just fired off a REAL set of logs in the fireplace, not that ceramic/gas stuff. Ah, the smell of wood and the staisfaction of using a renewable resource, wood vs gas which cannot be renewed. . . Taking the morning chill off.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    MY Charger doesn't use that much more fuel. And my engine design is not an antiquated 2 stroke design from the 60's.

    Did you know that 1 snowmobile causes as much air pollution as 100 cars?
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    \\Not everyone has the ability to crosscounty ski or
    canoe a lake. Some see the great outdoors in
    power boats, snow mobiles and Rangers and Tacomas.\\



    I agree. And there are places for that. But not EVERY place should be full of motor boats and roads. 9o some percent of the lower 48 is roaded and trailed.

    Should we build roads into every wild corner just so a few folks can get a nice view once a year? I don't think so. And I don't think the disabled would want this either. There are PLENTY of beautiful drives through our wildlands and parks. We don't need more roads in the national forests.

    \\You have NO right to deny them access just because
    you do not agree.\\



    I am not denying anyone access. I am just propogating BALANCE. And the balance right now goes heavily towards motors and roads.

    \\Do not turn around too slow spoog, your Tacoma
    just may be on a hit list as being dangerious to
    the environment and be listed on some executive
    order somewhere.\\


    Whatever. Give me a freaking break. Take this consiracist looney-crap somewhere else please.




    \\BTW I feel fortunate to have grown up at a time
    where I could and did own, without government
    restrictions, a 69 Coronet 500, 383CID with 345 hp
    v8 that would rip the paint off that fancy Tacoma
    of yours as it passed it by.\\


    It's nice to dream, isn't it?




    \\ Those were the days.
    Sorry for you that you missed those days. It was a
    heck of a decade,. . .\\



    Thats ok. I'll pass.
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147
    A skier is not better than or more entitled to be out doors than a snowmobiler. BUT they DO have MUCH lower environmental impact. they also tend to much more educated in backcountry safety.

    Any Jacka$$ can get a snowmobile and race into the backcountry with no training at all. With skiing (and its evil stepchild, snowboarding :) ) you can not do this, only the best dare to step out of bounds to earn their turns.

    Answer me this : why in the three avalanche courses that I have taken has there NEVER been 1 snowmobiler there.

    Wildernees areas are for the WILDERNESS. If you want to visit the wilderness get off your [non-permissible content removed] and go in under your own power.

    When i hike ski bike or whatever, I dont want to hear an engine or smell an engine.

    I love my truck, but i would love to spend less time in it.

    that last post by spoog might be his best one yet. thank god it didnt habve that damn 4wheeler review in it :)
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147
    Lake powell (technically a reservoir) was built by the bureau of reclamation on a partial platform that many people could not Access this beautiful country. So thier answer was lets fill it up with water. And by doing this they buriedup many of the beautiful things they were claiming to make easier for people to see. Glen canyon was one of the most beautiful canyons in the southwest. Now its a big lake that evaporates millions of gallons a day. The mighty Colorado river never reaches the ocean anymore. that has more to do with all the dams than all the golf courses in Arizona. Now we have all this Great water for all our water sports. Anybody been over the three bridges on the northwestern edge of the lake? I have, its sickening. Oil slicks, solid waste, and trash are all swept into the little side canyons.

    anyone that hasnt seen Rainbow bridge better go see it now before the water erodes its base away and it topples to the water below. you can practically drive you boat right up to it. We dont drive our cars into our churches, museums, concert halls, and other Cherished placesof our culture. Why do we feel the need to bring them in to our Countries natural treasures?

    PS... next time you are there tell me how beautiful that bathtub ring lake powell now has is :)
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147
    ..till the two weeks on the river ..no cars, no radios, no trafic.. CANT WAIT
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    I do not disagree with your statments, however my question is on the designation of hundreds of thousands of acres of NEW wilderness areas. All by executive order, NOT the will of the people effected. We are a REPRESENTED in government not a monarchy and the State senators and representitives of those areas were not even consulted before it was said and done. AND the latest areas in Colo were just GRABBED, NO FUNDING TO MANAGE THEM IS ALLOCATED. You must understand oil reserves larger than Saudi Arabia are UNDER most of the most recently designated wilderness area land.

    I agree with you regarding noise in a Wilderness area, however, some of us older people with arthritic knees cannot trudge 10-15 miles off the beaten path. But we can drive and walk the shorter distances to some of the areas less traveled.

    Speaking of roads less traveled, went to Yankee Hill Road, I think that is what it was called, Saturday. You go up Fall River Road, bear to the right near the top on Lake road and then find Mine road. It goes from there, Idahoe Springs to Central City. Went with my sons Toyota and a guy called coloranger, with an 87 XLT, 2.9, lifted, that, as spoog would say, crappy Explorer front and rear differentials, and a set of 4.56 gears. Well, to make it short, that old ranger will outclimb mine and my sons Toyota. I hit an area, very deep holes, steep, very loose dirt. I may have been able to make it if I had hit it a bit faster but I stopped rather than get in deep. And before I am asked, a locker would have just dug me in deeper. Well, the 87 went right thru it like it was not there. Took some pics and will post soon as the roll is done. Lots of neet trails up there and will go back.

    BTW, I will not go into details but with the latest ineptness of the Energy Dept., the guys that also control oil (seen the pump price lately)
    everyone should be sweating bullets regarding those Los Alamos disks. You heard it here first.
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