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Comments
Clean newer shop, people good to work with. Think they farmed out the paintless repair though.
I was refering to the standing dead and the fuel on the floor.
What do you have against people gathering wood and putting it in a truck bed off of a limited access road? Some people in that area heat homes in the winter based on the gathered firewood, saving by not using gas or oil which is not renewable.
That is just common environmental sense.
Remember, nature does have a way or renewing the planet and has done that since long before man was here. How else would the planet have gotten from volcanic periods to periods of lush growth?
You see, that is the reason the extream far to the left "...protect till the last ant.." attitude breaks down.
Man, with his superior brain, can and does assist nature in management or the environment. Take the Buffalo Creek blaze a few years ago. Man did attempt to re-forest/grass areas to prevent runoff due to the fire. It made it a bit better than if nothing was done.
Now when you deny access vs restrict access, man cannot get to areas when it is needed.
Plus, seriously, look at the true reasons for the grabbing of land. You will find massive oil reserves that cannot be tapped resulting in being dependent on foreign oil to be a very major reason. Like that $2.00+ a gallon gas?
I am not really disagreeing with you because I struggle with these issues but did the replanting make it better for nature or just easier for man to deal with nature? Nature can do just fine adapting to its own natural processes.
With the demise of natural predators (wolves, bears, foxes, coyotes, etc...) caused by man, the population of various game animals ends up being controlled by starvation.
Which would you consider better for an animal, a bullet or starvation?
As a hunter, I also eat what I kill. Poaching and other detrimental actions to the environment are looked down on by the general hunting community. Hunting usually goes hand in hand with conservation and the preservation of our wildlands.
They are saying it was lightning that started it either hitting a tree or the ground.
spoog, I do not disagree with you regarding how fires spread, but, things on the ground that are combustable will burn.
Additionally, to deny access allows existing trails to deteriorate. If, in the future, you HAVE to access that area for say fire fighting, the roads will not be there.
I am reminded of two things, the fire in Mission Valley near San Diego 10 years ago and the the huge fire in Australia a few years back. In BOTH cases, government got involved and told people they could NOT clear out brush, small and or large dead trees etc. Had to save the golden tufted sap sucker rabbit (made that up, but it was true that it was to protect the environment).
Well, a fire hit both places. Fueled by the dry dead trees/brush that the Governments would not let property owners clear, San Diego lost 120+ homes and just burned everything to the ground. Australia had a National Park and hundreds of homes go up in flames.
Now fire in these places has it's good points. In the case of Australia, all the old gorwth had become rampant with desease, paracites, and were not faring well. Also, the fire released seeds that formed HEALTHY new growth forests providing cover and food for the returning animals.
The earth HEALS, always has, always will. As long as when you are out there you follow a simple code of conduct, the environment is safe.
Protect wilderness? YES, or coarse. But is it right to build MORE wilderness and upset/effect the lives of thousands/millions for no good reason?
I enjoy going to the forest, looking at and yes, hunting to help manage the animal resourses. The choice of starvation or a bullet is easy one.
I found a great code of conduct for off-roading and will try to get it to post here.
Gonna get some RS9000 shocks too. Same site has them "Buy 3 get one free."
Slowly but surely improving on a currently very good platform.
Scottsss, Standars is putting a glaze job on the truck for free. Shines BETTER than like a new penny, more like a mercury coated dime! They did, in my opinion, a great job on the truck.
It will be down there if you want to shoot by tomorrow. A Platimum Supercab. Talk to Brad if you want to see an example of the work by looking at mine.
However, all taking, for lack of a better word, of managed anamals has a purpose. Even if an over populated, very destructive species, such as the coyote, is left, scavengers get an easy meal and survive another day. The coyote is so destructive in this state the season runs
1/1-12/31, no bag limit. Same for the cute little prairie dogs who are very destructive to livestock and horses.
You might disagree with that, which is your right howerver, that is the way it is.
BTW if you have ever seen a coyote run down an antelope, it is not pretty. Saw that once thanks to being able to cross a 2 mile set of field in my Ranger.
One area that I disagree with is hunting top-level predators and endangered species. I don't see the reason for hunting grizzlies, blackies, wolves, and various big cats. A large predator will range many 10s of square miles, and taking just a few of these animals can very easily rid an entire area of its population.
let me say that MAN is the ULTIMATE predator.... I was raised to eat what you shoot/catch, the exception being "pests" such as groundhogs, mice, rats, and now coyotes. The occasional predator will require "culling," they get old and lazy, and it is easier to kill a sheep or household pet than to bring down a deer. At that point it is time to remove the risk as small children may be next on the food chain.
The major issue is DEER.
In the east the problem is endemic. The deer have no natural predator save man (read AUTOMOBILE). But you can't harvest them sensibly (What? Shoot Bambi?) and so human lives are endangered so human sensibilities of a cartoon character need not be offended.
A deer strike with a 97 Suburban did $3500+ in damages (a large buck!), had we been driving the 87 Cherokee or any normal sized sedan, the vehicle would have been totaled - with possible serious injuries. My Maryland county alone had 400+ deer strikes last year....
Nature WILL redress the balance....
Now.... back to Trucks....
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
Hunter
Fisherman
RKBA Advocate
Defense Conservative
Social Liberal (from when it wasn't a term of derision)
Fiscal Moderate....
I saw that epsiode as well. It was on TNN Redneck TV. I think it's called something like the "4x4 show".
Two hosts with mild southern accents worked on that Dodge with the tracks. I too saw it mash and destroy everything in it's path. These yahoos were driving over unroaded streambeds, plants, shrubs and so forth. I could see if they were corssing a previous road into the stream, but this borderd on irresponsible.
I KNEW there was something I liked about you!
Bet you chew too and support NRA too. . .
spoog:
I am sure there is no wood in your house, correct because if there is, it was logged and more than likely brought out on a Ford or International.
Well, in Pine Colo, the only thing left, other than the rocks, bricks and burned out vehicles is the trees that were standing at the time of the fire. Burned badly but the only thing standing.
If it is on the ground and is not real green or wet, it will burn. Want to talk to my coworker who just lost his $300,000 brand new log house or the 4 people across the street from him that also lost everything?
For man and nature to exist together, there must be some form of management by man. Won't always work, but it has to be there.
BTW, if that show was done on private land, it is none of your business what they do.
Who is to be held responsible? If MY truck started a fire like that I know darn well I would be held responsible by the forest service.
I have always said that the offroaders WORST enemy is stupid offroaders, not left wing extremists.
I STILL maintain that hunting's worst enemy is stupid "hunters", not PETA.
Hunting and offroading kind of fall in with the same crowd.....
It is about presenting the best possible image with those activities that keeps those privelages intact.
Offroading is touchy, because what we do IMPACTS other people's enjoyment of the outdoors.
People who enjoy hiking can't and don't infringe on our activities , nor do they distrub us in pursuit of those activities. But offroading has the potenetial to really screw up the land if done by idiots. This EFFECTS others who enjoy other activites in the outdoors.
The activity of offroading sometimes TAKES from the land.
THe activity of hunting TAKES from the land.
The activity of hiking does not. The activity of bird watching does not. The activity of enjoying motro-free areas does not.
The activities that have the potential to ruin others experiences and the ones that take from the land need to be done as responsibly as possible. Thats the price we pay for choosing activites that take.
Starvation by nature unless it is due to man's neglect and urbran sprawl. Then it would be the responsibilty of man protect nature.
Remember too that man is a predator (and a damn destructive one too, unfortunately).
-Failure to follow posted trails.
-Allowing their dogs to run free(Boulder just passed a law that man is their "guardian" not owner, kind of a weird attitude.
-Irresponsible fire use, like NOT in an fire circle(heck I learned that in Scouts, an organization that some want to see disbanded.
-Not taking out the trash hauled in.
As long as 4 wheelers stay on the assigned roads, maintain the roads to allow good access, reducing the need to go off the beaten path, things will be ok. But I do not think, like in the case of Al Unser, who was fined 10K when he got lost and crossed over onto Wilderness area while trying to get back to the approved trail, that people should be hammered for making a slight mistake. Take the case of cross county skiers that OFTEN, WILLFULLY depart approve trails, cause sometimes deadly snow slides and force local rescue groups large sums of money to find them. And no fines are ever issued in those cases.
Heck last year they had a group of people that went up over Guinella Pass, when it was reported that high winds and snow were coming into the area. The cost on that was 10K AND searching for them caused the officials to tramp through the tundra area, causing some damage too.
So just do not jump on the loggers, guys trying to make a living and off-roader trying to enjoy a sport. The so called nature lovers, hikers, etc cause their share too.
Again, if you believe it or not, nature does heal itself. Always has, always will. Show me a case that that has never happened and you cannot cite Exxon Valdes, Mt Pinatubo, Mt Etna, Mt St. Helens, or even the oil platforms (now ruled illegal, like them high gas prices?) off the CA coast.
Unser, who was fined 10K when he got lost and
crossed over onto Wilderness area while trying to
get back to the approved trail, that people should
be hammered for making a slight mistake\\
Al Unser is an idiot, and should have been fined more than that. HE EVEN had the gall to file a lawsuit against the NAtional Forest. THEN he went before congress with Ted "wild and free" Nugent, claiming that wilderness areas should be opened up with roads.
For the record, Unser was REPEATEDLY warned by the Ranger in the South San Juan wilderness to "not go in there".
Unser responded at one time, " I can go in there anytime I want, and you can't catch me!".
So, he and his buddy decided to rip through the non-motorzed wilderness on their sleds. Low and behold, he got stuck, and was lost in the wilderness. He walked out, luckily. The Rangers found his sled deep within the wilderness boundary, and so he was fined.
Unser is an idiot. There ar eplaces motors don't belong. And car racing stinks in general. What a boring sport, and what a waste of gas.
Not to mention the air and noise polution that a 2 stroke engine puts out..
"...And car racing stinks in general. What a
boring sport, and what a waste of gas."
Oh but street racing, which you brag about often is ok, right?
Post your supporting data regarding Unser otherwise it is your OPINION.
In regard to NASCAR racing, it is a sport/skill that causes much less damage to the environment than racing thru mudded Ill. cow pastures. . .
So much built up hate, spoog. No I do not disagree with you or scottsss that snowmobiles should not have freerun in the forests.
However, my point was this. On one case you have a guy crossing into restricted areas getting fined 10K, you have another case of a guy ordering a controlled burn in 70mph windy conditions resulting in hundreds of houses and thousands of acres of virgin timber getting burned down receiving no fine and allowed to retire.
BOTH could be considered idiots.
My own opinion, ATV's, snow mobiles, 4 wheel drive vehicles, etc should be used responsibly. I have NO concern if someone uses one to go tend thier cattle who are starving in a huge blizzard, they are doing work that is much harder then my job, or even if they use them for recreation. I, unlike some, willingly SHARE the natural wonders of this land, rather than locking them up for the use of just the few.
I would like to do a survey sometime on the ACTUAL use numbers on the Wilderness areas. I would suspect the number of visitors to them is very, very low. The end result is to cram more 4 wheel drive vehicles in smaller areas, doing more damage to those areas.
xena1:
Will be hitting the trails this weekend checking out the Westcliffe area.
Winch should be here in a few days. Got the Ramsey REP 8000, Class III hitch platform and roller fairline adaptor for about half the cost of buying it in town. Looking to put on a front hitch next weekend and test out the winch. As long as there is a tree 90 ft away, the Ranger will go anywhere.
Anyone have experience with anchors for winching? Looks like a shovel, you bury it in the ground as a winch point?
Oh, BTW, the Ranger has the areas under the rear seats for storage of the winch accessories plus my tool kits, tow strap, gloves, straps, spare parts, etc.
Where would you store that kind of stuff on a Tacoma?
CP, the answer your going to get from a Toyota owner is, "Tacoma's can't get stuck, nor ever get flat tires". LOL!!
A few years back, my wife and I spent about a week in Bend, OR. Beautiful country. Enjoyed it very much. Man, they make good beer up there!!!
Cpousnr -
Glad to hear about your truck. 2 weeks until I head up to Westcliffe. Can't wait! I was sorry to hear about the fires. When I drive from Westcliffe to Louisville, I always take US 285. That goes right through the affected area. I wonder if that route will be accessible by July 4th?
If there were a 4 cycle engine readily available in my price range, I'd gladly look into it. The only manufacturer I know of that makes one is Redline. This is their first year of production with a total output of 800 sleds costing around $10,000 each (if you can even get one that is).
About the only people that can throw the pollution flag would be those who don't own an automobile, don't use electricity, and don't use manufactured goods.
If you think that all snowmobilers are irresponsible and all skiers are wonderful, responsible nature lovers that never cause any problems, I think you might need to reassess your views.
Have you ever heard of back country skiers? How many slides do they cause a year? How much does it cost the taxpayer to find these idiots who like to go off the marked trails and get themselves lost?
BTW, I snowmobile only in Wisconsin (primarily flatland) and only on trails that are clearly marked for snowmobile use only.
I apologize if I come off as abrasive, but I get really damn sick of people condemning recreational activities (such as snowmobiling) with the high and mighty environmentalist attitude when they damage the environment in other ways.
I'm also sorry if you're having problems with idiots riding on skiing only trails. Maybe you should try taking this up with a park ranger or local law enforcement.
"I don't snow mobile or snow ski, too damn cold for
me. I am an avid power boater. Your attitude is
the same as fishermen vs. jet skiers, power boater
vs. sail boats (sail boats always have the right of
way, however) I'm just curious why one recreation
or hobby is more important then another? I want
your opinion and I'm not starting a flame war. Have
you ever thought that you irritate the snow
mobilers? Always in the way...Blah blah blah. My
feeling on humanity is that some one can always
find fault with what some else does. So in the
words of the great Rodney King, "Can't we all just
get along?"
The difference is that motored vehicles TAKE from the land, while walking or cross country skiing exudes a FAR LESS toll on the surroundings.
Lets look at the facts:
1. Motors are very noisy
2. The wake from faster boats is LARGER
3. ATV's rip new trails if not used properly
4. 2 stroke engines are foul, antiquate designs, causing very bad air pollution.
1. Crosscountry skiers- NO noise, no impact
2. Fishermen in canoes- no wake, no noisy motor,
no pollution
If anyone can't see why MOTORS infringe on peoples enjoyment, you are clueless.
Im not against motors, but please, wake up and acknowledge the facts.
MOTORIZED ACTIVITIES infringe on others enjoyment.
Hikers, canoers and cross country skiers DO NOT infringe on others enjoyment.
You have a voice, if someone is "...infringing..." on what you think is your enjoyment, understand that YOU are infringing on THEIR enjoyment.
That is the problem with many so called environmentalist.
NO comprimise. and the frankly is B__S___.
You don't like the noise, ask nicely and they may move otherwise, hike your but 20 mile into the wilderness, where your alone, and leave the majority alone.
cthompson:
I do not particularly LIKE some of the snowmobiles and ATV's when they do dumb things like chase deer/elk and bother me while I am hunting. BUT I FULLY understand their right to "...life, liberty and the persuit of happiness...".
Some people here cannot even tell me what document that came from.
As long as you follow the rules with off-road or snow vehicles, that is ok with me. It is a VERY large and beautiful country out there that we all enjoy in many different ways.
But if you do not follow the rules and are a threat to me, better take my Univ. of Smith and Wesson sticker seriously. Model 27's are rather accurate and can take out a tire at more distance than you may imagine.
Tacoma vs Ranger I post #204
“Oh, that little supercharger allows me to beat
mustangs off the line, and pass many cars on the
highway. You should see the look on the mustang
drivers faces when a pickup blows by them.
Or, better yet, the foolish Ranger drivers who see
my black beauty parked at the light next to them,
and try to race me. Muhahahahahahaha!
Imagine that! They cant EVEN come close to me,
I mean, I outrun them so fast it is funny.”
Real friendly to MY enviornment, the highway.
Tacoma vs Ranger I #467
"I AGREE that the RANGER is a BETTER VALUE. Ok?
There, I said it. I am tired of all this useless
bickering and stat-ignoring.
'
FOR THE MONEY< THE RANGER IS A BETTER VALUE.
IT ALSO HAS A MORE COMFY INTERIOR AND IT LOOKS
BETTER TO ME ON THE INSIDE."
Not everyone has the ability to crosscounty ski or canoe a lake. Some see the great outdoors in power boats, snow mobiles and Rangers and Tacomas.
You have NO right to deny them access just because you do not agree.
Do not turn around too slow spoog, your Tacoma just may be on a hit list as being dangerious to the environment and be listed on some executive order somewhere.
BTW I feel fortunate to have grown up at a time where I could and did own, without government restrictions, a 69 Coronet 500, 383CID with 345 hp v8 that would rip the paint off that fancy Tacoma of yours as it passed it by. Those were the days. Sorry for you that you missed those days. It was a heck of a decade,. . .
Also, BTW, my Ranger emissions puts out water, a small bit of C02 and cleaner air than it take into the intake.
Know where Lake Powell is and how big it is? Try Southern Utah and Northern Az, and maybe 1000 mile of shoreline under 110 degree, if your lucky, heat.
Want to canoe that?
Be realistic spoog, not everyone thinks like you.
Know where Lake Powell is and how big it is? Try Southern Utah and Northern Az, and maybe 1000 mile of shoreline under 110 degree, if your lucky, heat.
Want to canoe that?
Be realistic spoog, not everyone thinks like you.
1. Motors are very noisy........sometimes.
2.The wakes from faster boats is larger......My 100 mph tunnel boat has a very small wake. barely in the water when it's packing air.
3. ATV's rip new trails when not used properly......OK, and inconsiderate hikers leave their $h!t behind too. I see,.. all non-motorized users of our land are perfect.
4. 2 stroke...blah blah blah... don't know about snow mobiles but personal watercraft are starting to run converters and out boards are going to 4 strokes and fuel injected 2 strokes.
Spoog, get off your high horse. You race on the street(thanx cpousner) you put a super charger on your truck that uses more fuel when under boost and therefore pollutes more and given your past you'll most likely repeat this same argument 500 times this month.
Know where Lake Powell is and how big it is? Try Southern Utah and Northern Az, and maybe 1000 mile of shoreline under 110 degree, if your lucky, heat.
Want to canoe that?
Be realistic spoog, not everyone thinks like you.
Looking for advice for installing one on 99 Ranger.
Ah, a cool rain in colo...helping the fire situation.
Just fired off a REAL set of logs in the fireplace, not that ceramic/gas stuff. Ah, the smell of wood and the staisfaction of using a renewable resource, wood vs gas which cannot be renewed. . . Taking the morning chill off.
Did you know that 1 snowmobile causes as much air pollution as 100 cars?
canoe a lake. Some see the great outdoors in
power boats, snow mobiles and Rangers and Tacomas.\\
I agree. And there are places for that. But not EVERY place should be full of motor boats and roads. 9o some percent of the lower 48 is roaded and trailed.
Should we build roads into every wild corner just so a few folks can get a nice view once a year? I don't think so. And I don't think the disabled would want this either. There are PLENTY of beautiful drives through our wildlands and parks. We don't need more roads in the national forests.
\\You have NO right to deny them access just because
you do not agree.\\
I am not denying anyone access. I am just propogating BALANCE. And the balance right now goes heavily towards motors and roads.
\\Do not turn around too slow spoog, your Tacoma
just may be on a hit list as being dangerious to
the environment and be listed on some executive
order somewhere.\\
Whatever. Give me a freaking break. Take this consiracist looney-crap somewhere else please.
\\BTW I feel fortunate to have grown up at a time
where I could and did own, without government
restrictions, a 69 Coronet 500, 383CID with 345 hp
v8 that would rip the paint off that fancy Tacoma
of yours as it passed it by.\\
It's nice to dream, isn't it?
\\ Those were the days.
Sorry for you that you missed those days. It was a
heck of a decade,. . .\\
Thats ok. I'll pass.
Any Jacka$$ can get a snowmobile and race into the backcountry with no training at all. With skiing (and its evil stepchild, snowboarding
Answer me this : why in the three avalanche courses that I have taken has there NEVER been 1 snowmobiler there.
Wildernees areas are for the WILDERNESS. If you want to visit the wilderness get off your [non-permissible content removed] and go in under your own power.
When i hike ski bike or whatever, I dont want to hear an engine or smell an engine.
I love my truck, but i would love to spend less time in it.
that last post by spoog might be his best one yet. thank god it didnt habve that damn 4wheeler review in it
anyone that hasnt seen Rainbow bridge better go see it now before the water erodes its base away and it topples to the water below. you can practically drive you boat right up to it. We dont drive our cars into our churches, museums, concert halls, and other Cherished placesof our culture. Why do we feel the need to bring them in to our Countries natural treasures?
PS... next time you are there tell me how beautiful that bathtub ring lake powell now has is
I agree with you regarding noise in a Wilderness area, however, some of us older people with arthritic knees cannot trudge 10-15 miles off the beaten path. But we can drive and walk the shorter distances to some of the areas less traveled.
Speaking of roads less traveled, went to Yankee Hill Road, I think that is what it was called, Saturday. You go up Fall River Road, bear to the right near the top on Lake road and then find Mine road. It goes from there, Idahoe Springs to Central City. Went with my sons Toyota and a guy called coloranger, with an 87 XLT, 2.9, lifted, that, as spoog would say, crappy Explorer front and rear differentials, and a set of 4.56 gears. Well, to make it short, that old ranger will outclimb mine and my sons Toyota. I hit an area, very deep holes, steep, very loose dirt. I may have been able to make it if I had hit it a bit faster but I stopped rather than get in deep. And before I am asked, a locker would have just dug me in deeper. Well, the 87 went right thru it like it was not there. Took some pics and will post soon as the roll is done. Lots of neet trails up there and will go back.
BTW, I will not go into details but with the latest ineptness of the Energy Dept., the guys that also control oil (seen the pump price lately)
everyone should be sweating bullets regarding those Los Alamos disks. You heard it here first.