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Comments
The extra 2yr and 150K is worth a lot for resale value. Not sure if you are comforted by Toyota's claim that the battery is good for at least 150k based on extensive lab testing. I am not. If they put it in writing in terms of a warranty for all hybrids irrespective of states, then I would believe it!
Total miles driven: 20,513
Average miles per month: 1,282
Total amount spent on gas: $1,492.13
Average price paid per gallon: $2.67
Average cost per fill-up: $36.39
Average gallons per fill-up: 14.16
Average miles driven per tank of gas: 497.58
Average miles per gallon: 35.1
Loving it !!!
Obviously for me the benefit of the $2600 FED and $3750 State tax credits as well as a free tires for life program from my dealer has made this an outstanding ownership experience. I'm guessing right now my trade in value is about equal to my purchase cost less tax credits
However, I think it is entirely possible to get lousy mpg depending on the circumstance. I have seen situations where the engine simply refuse to back down. I can imagine if you make short trips with lots of power offs in between, you will get poor mpg. My weekend trips are typically 30 miles altogether and often involve ~10 poweroffs and ~30 traffic stops. My mpg would drop by 10 points!!!
Here's another scenario that kills my mpg. Driving out from a cold start with the first stretch of road in a 25 mph zone. My typical choice for a morning commute is find the route that will allow me to drive at 40-45 mph as quickly as possible. But once the engine is warmed up, I get back on a 35 mph zone and drive at 40 mph before I hit the highway.
Those of you with mpg issues should consider route planning. The only downside is the extra commute time and extra miles. For me, that extra time to myself and knowing that I am minimizing the damage of this car to the environment is worth every extra minutes.
Looking forward to all your comments!
http://www.eere.energy.gov/states/news_detail.cfm/news_id=10285
Now what does that mean????
All 2008's are covered?
All cars bought after January 1st 2008 are covered?
Your guess is as good as mine.
What about all the 2007's... are they covered?
I do not know but if anyone finds out, let us know.
Also my 2002 Van had a header go bad last June... and the dealer said was covered under the California Emissions.
Is it now in effect or were they just blowing smoke?
Either way it saved me over $700.
Gampa
The TCH emmission is so low already that they meet CA emission standard by default. It is simply up to toyota to extend the same warranty on the battery. Should they choose to honor the extended warranty on '08 model, then one would expect to see PA stated explicitly in the warranty booklet.
I have an 07. The warranty booklet shows clearly that PA is NOT on the list of states with extended warranty.
But seriously, I wonder if this means that Pennsylvania dealers will not start offering the Nissan Altima Hybrid. My Toyota Camry Hybrid is, all-in-all, the best car that I have ever owned but I confess that the car I am now really curious about is the Altima Hybrid.
I will even confess that if the Altima Hybrid were avaialble when I bought my Camry Hybrid, I might have bought the Altima.
Who knows.
By the way, I have not kept a detailed log but in the year I have owned my Camry (it will be exactly one year on September 28th), my "guessti-mate" is that I am avaeraging a little bit better than 37mpg. Usually, the trip computer shows me in the 37-38 mpg range as my avaerage.
Great car!
Some observations from the data that the car computer spits out are that mileage is reduced for cold starts, short trips, high speed freeway driving, on very cold days, or with the AC on (these are true for any car). The mileage in the low-mid 40’s quoted above always has included one or more of these mileage reducing conditions for at least a good part of the tank full of gas over which it is calculated. I was curious as to what mileage I could achieve if I could eliminate these conditions and drive in totally optimal conditions. So I did a test.
I drove, starting with a warm engine, 10 laps around my community, a total distance of 36 miles, or 3.6 miles per lap. Each lap had 4 stops, and I admit to rolling through most of them at about 10 mph, because even though the brakes regenerate electricity, they are not 100% efficient, so you are better off maintaining kinetic energy when you can. It was about 65 degrees that day, so I did not need AC. The elevation averaged 6000 ft (southwest of Denver), and it probably varied +/- 100 feet across the course. I put 45 psi in the tires. Owner’s manual recommends 32 psi, but the tires allow 51 psi max. Winds were almost non-existent. I averaged a speed of 34.3 miles per hour during the test, including the stops, so I was mostly doing 35-40 mph. The car operated in electric mode 74% of the time, and in gas mode 26% of the time. It was on gas mainly when it was climbing hills or accelerating from a "stop", and on electric most of the rest of the time.
I started the test at the same elevation as I ended, so it was not like it was one long downhill test. The winds were light, and I went in 10 big circles, so wind had no effect on the mileage. I started with an 80% charge on the battery bank, and ended with a 90% charge, so I did not drain down the batteries to artificially inflate the gas mileage. In the end, the car’s mileage computer indicated 63.0 MPG for the duration of the test. Even though it over-predicts mileage slightly, I am still confident I got over 60 MPG. I have read about Priuses, under very controlled conditions getting over 100 mpg. They were on courses with no hills and no stops. They also used driving methods called gliding (coasting with electric mode and gas mode off) and warp driving (no idea what this is). I find it difficult and impractical to glide so I didn't for the test. But I suspect if my course had no hills or stops, I could have gotten over 70 mpg in my Camry just driving normally.
Just a few more observations - Obviously, it drops into electric mode most frequently and easily when the engine is warm. On really cold winter days (below 20 degrees F or so) it will rarely if ever go into electric mode, even after driving more than 10 miles. On warmer days, it will drop into electric mode after driving 3 or 4 miles from a cold start IF you take your foot off the gas while going about 40 mph. If you do the same thing at 30 or 20 mph it will not go into electric mode. There seems to be a sweet spot around 40 mph because that's where it will go into electric mode quickest and easiest. After driving 10 or 20 miles, it will go into electric mode at lower speeds. It also seems to like to go into electric mode if you drive it for 5 or more miles, then park the car for 10 minutes to an hour, then drive again. I think there is probably some emissions equipment that needs to be hot (like a catylitic converter) to go into electric mode. While driving, the air flow keeps it somewhat cool. But if parked with a warm engine, the hot engine heats that component such that when you drive again it goes quickly into electric mode. That is just speculation on my part, but it makes sense to me.
You will occasionally find people who tell you they are disappointed because they only get 25 or 30 mpg. I strongly suspect they do many short trips on cold starts with the AC on or in very cold conditions. It you drive 3 miles to work in the morning, and 3 miles home at night, and that it typical of most of your driving, you will probably only get 25 to 30 mpg. But very few people drive that way, hence very few people complain about the mileage. My daily commute to work is 10 miles each way, but I also usually do other driving as do most people.
As far as power goes, the Camry has plenty. I can maintain 90 mph up any mountain grade in the Colorado Rockies with 2 adults, 2 teenagers, and 2 Golden Retrievers in the car and a packed truck. And it can beat many cars off the light when I need it to.
I can't find any reason why every car should not be a hybrid. I love mine.
Beautiful, BEAUTIFUL post !! Bravo, Double Bravo, and Excellent work !!
My lifetime is still 35.2 but many of my trips are short (less than 10 miles) so I have a disadvantage.
Love my TCH though......
I think you nailed it. I drive round 2-3 miles to work. Other than that, it is usually short trips around town. So, my mileage is around 25-28. But I thought that it was supposed to get very good mileage in stop-and-go traffic. : (
I should point out that this statement is true of many non-hybrid cars, such as all Honda models. Most manufacturer prefer to make all cars "50 state" emissions compatible rather than deal with having two emissions requirements.
The exception is diesels, which cannot be sold in CARB states unless the vehicle weighs over 6000 lbs. However, CARB compliant diesels are set to debut in 2009. I have read that VW and Honda have such diesel technology.
As you've noticed in the prior posts the single biggest killer of fuel economy for all vehicles is short trips. As a further example when CR does its vehicle tests it often finds fuel economy values of 12-18 mpg in its 'City' segment for a standard ICE vehicle.
Non-hybrid cars take quite a hit in MPG in the winter. I assume that the extreme cold will impact a hybrid’s battery efficiency not to mention the impact of cold engine starts, engine warm-ups and the like.
I'm interested in knowing how the TCH performs in extreme cold.
Thanks in advance
In Oregon, our TCH's mileage dropped about 5 mpg (from 38-40) when we crossed into winter. Still, the car delivered superior mileage to a non-hybrid Camry.
I am driving almost 100% city, with some short stretches of highway, but a moderate # of stops. I don't have a heavy foot, and am doing my best to start gently from stop signs and red lights, but no go. The temp is now around 30-40, and I am told that Maryland oxygenated fuels that start around now can drop the mileage by 1-2 MPG. The town has a grade, so my 7 mile AM commute is 90% mild downhill, and the reverse coming back. My own house is on a very steep short grade. In the one stretch of 50 mile highway driving I did, it got maybe 33-34 MPG.
Should I be worried? Is there anyway to improve the mileage in city driving if one cannot control the amt of stopping? Does the car indeed "learn your style" and adjust? I don't know how to warm up the car before driving, because the gas engine doesn't turn on. Does it warm up anyhow? I am completely puzzled by those on this list who say they get 35 MPG w/o even trying, and more if they do. Should I expect improvement w/some more mileage? Why would that be so? Do the cars vary, or are the only variables the driver style, temp and nature of the trips?
I am ready to turn this back to the dealer service to see if there is anything that can be adjusted, but I am also 90% sure there will be nothing to find. Aside from this mileage thing, which really bugs me, the car is a dream. Any words of wisdom or comfort would be appreciated.
Macolyte
I have owned my 2007 TCH since February, and I have about 10,000 miles on it. I have mastered every trick and technique discussed in these forums, and I don't live in a city with a lot of hills. But the lifetime mileage on my TCH so far is 31.8. That includes a fair amount of highway driving, although probably 75-80% of my driving is in the city. If I drive only in the city for an entire tank, it's a struggle to keep the mileage above 30. My worst calculated mileage on a tank is 26.6 and my best is 36.6 (that was a tank with all highway driving at about 65-70 mph). My last 5 tanks have been 29.6, 31.2, 34.2, 31.9, and 32.6. I did not notice any improvement at 5,000 miles or after breaking the car in. My battery is fine and everything else on the vehicle checks out OK, so I don't know why I can't do better. But I'm very skeptical of people on here who keep saying they can get 35 or better in the city without even trying. They must be going downhill all the time
Good luck!
As a little experiment, I did try driving this AM w/my foot totally off the gas pedal as much as possible and mileage did seem to improve. That is definitely a different style than normal cars, and maybe that is the whole difference, i.e. those that think they are driving "gently" but keep a steady foot on the accelerator, and those who really take it off entirely, or nearly so.
Thanks again, and I hope a few others chime in.
The people that do the best have the longest commutes. I've got a dual commute -- 3 miles to my day job and 20 miles to evening classes when I've got them. I normally use another car to my day job when I don't have an evening class. Mileage to work is typically 25mpg with temps in the 40's. I'll get 39-41mpg to class.
I've got 38mpg overall at greenhybrid.com.
When I moved from Oregon to California and my driving went from mostly city to mostly rural (and to a warmer climate), my mileage went from good to outstanding. I doubt my driving habits changed any.
A fair test of the car's mechanicals would be on a level freeway at 65 mph, using cruise control if possible. You should expect about 38 mpg.
I've always wished I was in the position to drive one of these "lemons" or to have my car in the same situatuion just to really see the effect of different drivers, location or cars.
I don't use my car for commuting but have found that interstate driving is not my cars best feature. At less than 70mph I can get 38 to 40mpg, but at "speed" keeping it at 70 to 75 mph I'll usually be between 36.5 and 37.5mpg. Most of my trips are between 5 to 15 miles but mostly rural. After 35,500 miles I'm still at a 37.6 mpg lifetime average. It used to be 38.5 but for the last several months I've quit being obsessed and my milage has dropped to 37's.
I can understand the 34's and 35's but the absolute worst tank I've ever had was 31.5mpg and that trip was in the cold, on the interstate mostly at 85+mph in traffic and with wind and rain. Under normal circumstances, even when driving in Baltimore and Pittsburgh I've been able to get 36. In smaller cities like Charleston WV and that size I've been able to get in the high 39's. At Nags Head I had a300+ mile tank where I was getting 45mpg. Where the car really shines though are on rural 2 lane roads (even in the hills of WV) and I can easily get 40.
In a rural setting on short trips I've found that even with a cold engine, accelerating fairly briskly to achieve speed and then lifting off the throttle and then maintaining speed I can easly get 38+ without the engine kicking off until I get into town. I can then coast pretty much around town until the battery discharges and the ICE kicks back on.
Mainly they are best for producing less fumes in town or stop go driving. You get the same effect if you turn off your car every time you stop for a sign or red light. If you're not moving you waisting gas.
The Hybrid Chevy Trucks we got still only get 15-17 mpg, and they take some getting use to, just like when ABS brake systems came out and people did not understand their function...(Don't pump the peddle).
Don't get me wrong, I do applaud the advances in automotive technologies, but the correct info would be nice.
I myself am still waiting on the long celebrated Hydrogen Powered vehicles that make water for exhaust, (better have stainless steel exhaust pipes.) especially since we are in drought conditions.
Enjoy the discussion, :shades:
So typically with her 12 mile round trip commute she hits about 35 MPG average.
On one hwy trip to Birmingham she got 40MPG. We did a trip today from Suwanee to Columbus Ga to see our daughter in college. I drove this time and tried to get good mileage. I got 40.6 when i hit the garage. This was driving on the highway between 65 and 75 miles per hour and then the 5 miles or so off the why to get to and from the home were about 40 miles per hour..
I have driven the car to work maybe 4 times when the wife would let me and I manage to get between 38 to 40 paying attention to how I drive. When I drive like a normal mad man and rush from the starts to accelerate fast, the mileage will be in the 32 range..
So those are real world numbers. We have about 2500 miles on the car. Bought Sept 23. This car is quiet, smooth and fun to drive. We tinted the windows and put on an after market (factory style ) spoiler.. and have used layers of Zaino polish to keep the shine spectacular... PS (I get GM employee discounting and after driving numerous GM cars, we decided there were no cars that GM makes in this midsize range that compared with gas mileage!) Our first non GM car since 1983 toyota celica! We are happy and made the correct decision!
_I am convinced if you drive this car like a normal gas car expecting instant gas pedal response from a stnadstill then your gas mileage will be in the 30 -33 range. Relax, enjoy the driving, ease into it from a standstill and enjoy the money savings to pay for that starbucks coffee! Ed
I got my new 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid. I am not able to link my garage door to the Homelink System in the car. Does anybody have a similar issue? I tried to follow the instruction as per the Owners Manual and the owners Manual of the Garage Door Opener(Phantom and Legacy CD/CDB Series). ANy Help is appriciated.
Thanks
I got my new 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid. I am not able to link my garage door to the Homelink System in the car. Does anybody have a similar issue? I tried to follow the instruction as per the Owners Manual and the owners Manual of the Garage Door Opener(Phantom and Legacy CD/CDB Series). ANy Help is appriciated.
Thanks
If I remember you push the camry button in for a few seconds until it is ready to program, then you have like 30 seconds to go up to your garage door opener motor and somewhere is probably a small black button.. You need to push that button on your opener in the 30 seconds, then the camry will be programmed correctly. If that does not work or you do not get another reply, let me know and I will dig out the camry manual and give exact directions. This was the same for my chevy avalanche also..
Pleas try this exact sequence as I have written below..
1, I have a Genie Intellicode (2 of them actually) garage door opener-- just an FYI. It is the Rolling code type....
2, so lets try this:
Step 1. Press the "training button" on the garage door opener- one in the ceiling)
You have a few seconds to get back to the camry.
Step 2. press and release the one button you want to program in the camry 2 times. (maybe hold it for 1/2 second each time)
If the door opens the process is complete, if not, press it a third time.
YOU MUST DO ALL THIS ABOVE IN 30 seconds! (Maybe get a friend or spouse to help if needed. (one person push the button on the opener in the ceiling and one in the car...
Just wait maybe 30 seconds and now try to push the camry button you programmed and see if it works now....
If not let me know and we can try something else I suppose..
The other thing is this does not work is maybe you need to CLEAR the memory.. Reading on page 264 ERASE the program a (See picture also) and then try the above procedure as I have written.. Maybe the program is messed up
Ed
Temp just drop to 30+ in the morning for me and clearly my mileage drops significantly. My commute is 16 miles in the morning with 50%/50% higway/suburban. Mileage should not drop much over the winter if the bulk of your commute in on the highway. Just be sure you are using the 0w20 grade oil.
Macolyte
You have best described what I was hearing today. It was not annoying and something I could easily live with. I am sure the odd sounds will go away over the years with improvements in technology. I believe I am sold on the Camry Hybrid and probably will buy one by year-end.
I doubt it. The ICE has been around a long time and it still makes noises. Many people spend big $$$'s to make that noise even more pronounced. I'm guessing real hybrid fanactics will eventually figure out which whinny noises they want people to hear and figure out a way to make them louder.