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Porsche 944 and 924

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    ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    I hope you can answer questions here instead of email -- your answers are bound to help a lot of other members :-)

    MODERATOR

    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review

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    tlabuzantlabuzan Member Posts: 3
    Todd,
    thanks for help

    i looked in owner's manual and it does not show a relay for starter or solenoid and I could not figure out how the appx 1.5" x .5" x .5" relays come out (ie i tugged on one). there are aeveral ones listed in manual as "not used". however, it appears all sockets are used. there is one much longer than the others.

    there is no factory alarm.

    Ted
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    R85BabyR85Baby Member Posts: 1
    Have a 1985 944. Went and got a book to start doing some work on it since I can not get the Sunroof to work. Unfortunately in the book there was nothing on the sunroof. I can't get it to lock into place in the back. Any ideas what the issues might be? I tried the manual over ride and even that didn't work
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    Hi R85Baby,

    I assume you've got an electric sunroof, right? There is an adjustment and it can be made at the sunroof motor location which is in the drivers side rear quarter. You have to pull the carpet back (as you may already know) and it's mounted to a bracket up against the firewall there.

    The adjustment isn't so obvious, but if there's slack you should be able to loosen everything and make it taught.

    Do you know for a fact that the sunroof can physicially close by itself without the cables? What is the condition of the sunroof seals?
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    LA_ICELA_ICE Member Posts: 1
    I have had my 944 sitting in the garage for the past year after an accident. I am at the stage of bleeding the clutch and have some difficulties. When the clutch is depressed the peddle springs to the floorboard of the car. I have read some bleeding directions but cannot begin to bleed the system as long as it has no hydraulic action. The brake/clutch fluid is full and I need to know where to start with the clutch.
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    Actually, it shouldn't be too bad. The hardest part will be bleeding the clutch slave cyl on the transmission. But, start with the clutch master cyl first (on the firewall right behind the clutch pedal in the engine compartment). What you want to do is remove the clutch line from the clutch master cyl first. Put a LOT of rags down to catch the brake fluid. As you know, brake fluid is VERY caustic to paint and some people even use it as a paint stripper.

    Anyway, remove the clutch line. Take the cap off the top, and fill it with clean fluid. Have someone go into the car and depress the clutch pedal until you start to see fluid come out of the clutch cyl.

    To be honest, your best bet is to get a master cyl bleeding kit. It's basically a tube that screws into the clutch line opening on the cyl, and you put the end of the tube in a can of brake fluid. As you depress, it will push the air out, and when you release, it will suck in fluid. You keep doing this until you get ALL the air out.

    You'll want to disconnect the clutch line at the slave cyl, and then siphon (or force rather) fresh fluid through the clutch line at the master cyl side. When you think it's full, tape off the end (so it doesn't leak) and then quickly attach the clutch hydraulic line to the clutch master cyl. Hopefully, the clutch slave cyl doesn't need to be bled, and you can just hook the ine up directly.

    You should have plenty of clutch action at that point.
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    tattoojohnjohntattoojohnjohn Member Posts: 1
    i have what apears to be an oil leak,coming fron under my dist cap. pressure stays at four,never below two.
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    Hi John, I assume you're talking about a 944, right, with the distributor coming off the front of the cam tower?

    It's not common for it to leak at the distributor, but it's still entirely possible. It's kind of a pain to get to, really, because you'll need to remove the cam cover as well. You definitely want to do this because you don't want any oil getting onto the timing belts, which would totally destroy your valves and possibly the cyl head.

    You'll want to order a gasket kit first, and then remove the timing cover. Just work slowly, and you'll see how to remove everything. (Take the distributor cap off first obviously).

    You'll want a cam gasket, and the camshaft seal gasket.

    You can get those cheap from 944Online.Com

    Hope that helps...
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    my_pet944carmy_pet944car Member Posts: 1
    I just bought an 86 944, this car has been sitting for three years, and turns over when fed fuel through the air intake. I want to do the job right, and end up with a daily driver here. I have no idea what kinds of problems I am looking at, but I do want to equip myself with what I need to get started. How should I handle the fuel tank? Is it easy to remove, or should I try to clean it intact? I plan to clean the entire fuel system, but what kind of problems should I look for, injectors, dampers, pump, lines?? What is the best way to clean those lines?? I was told that the car would not hold a charge before it was parked three years ago. It would run, but after parked would need to be charged before it would start again. Battery will be replaced, but should this be an alternator problem or just a regulator? I will have the car at home this weds morning, but until then I am researching in the dark, and looking for advice. I<img src=" want to bring this pretty little car back to life and have it reliable. How much should I plan on spending to ge the timing done, and the typical 120K mile stuff? Thanks so much for any help, I am thinking this site will be a great resource for me.
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    Hi Pet944Car (didn't see your name),

    You'll want to treat this just as you would any other vehicle that's been sitting for this long. However, there are several things that are critically important on a Porsche 944 that would otherwise not be so critical on other cars.

    Before I start, I just want to warn you... for a Porsche 944 that's been sitting, you're probably looking at close to $2,000 in parts, (not labor, it assumes you do it all yourself), minimum, to get the car running decently, and in the condition that you would feel proud to drive it. With that said... seriously consider if it's worth it to you to spend this kind of money, versus getting one that's already running and in decent shape on eBay or somewhere else. I TOTALLY know how it is. It's been the story of my life. I took a Porsche 944 that was complete, and ended up spending upwards of $4,000 on it... and the engine was SOLID, didn't have to tear into the motor, or the transmission. It still needed another good $1,000.

    I bought it for $1,200, spent $4,000 on it, and sold it for $2,100... yup...

    Anyway, to see the entire rebuild I did, go to http://www.PontiacPerformance.Net and click on Past Cars (it's all the way at the bottom).

    Anyway, to answer your question... the most critical thing on a Porsche 944 is the timing belt. It's an interference motor, so if the belt snaps, you destroy all your valves, and possibly the cyl head and pistons depending on the RPM of the engine at the time the belt snaps. Belt service usually costs around $350-500 for the minimal service. Since you have a 1986, you'll only need to go in once (all 1985.5 Porsche 944s got the belt tensioner which doesn't require the every 10k mile belt tensioning).

    Anyway, it's important that you get those belts inspected. There are two, one that goes to the cam and the crank, and the other that goes from the cam to the balancing shafts.

    You can inspect them by removing the timing cover. If you see that they're frayed, any cracks ANYWHERE, teeth missing on the belt, or they are excessively loose, then before you do ANYTHING, have it towed to a Porsche shop to have them replaced.

    Cars on eBay (if you were to resell them) are worth about $500 more JUST by providing proof that the belts have been changed within the past 2 years.

    As far as the fuel system goes. I wouldn't worry too much about it, but you'll want to drain the fuel tank. Disconnect the rubber hose that connects to the bottom of the fuel tank, and allow it all to drain into a pan (you can use it in your lawn mower). The fuel tank is a dry sump tank (excellent design), so it's easy to clean and drain. Basically, all the sediment leaves the tank continuously and gets filted through the fuel filter, rather than most tanks that are fed through the top (and all the sediment sits at the bottom). Definitely overengineered.

    In my opinion, I would recommend replacing all the rubber portions of your fuel system. That means EVERYTHING from the body lines (just forward of the transmission (which as you know is mounted in the rear) all the way to the fuel tank. This will cost you about $300 bucks in parts. It includes several pieces as well as a new fuel filter and the rubber hose that connects the tank to the external fuel pump (also a great design).

    You'll also want to replace the fuel lines from the body lines to the fuel rail in the engine compartment. A lot of people have lost their 944s due to this.

    Other than that, check your brakes, I would change all the fluids in the vehicle. Oil, gear oil, coolant, and brake fluid. Even change your power steering fluid.

    Change the plugs, wires, cap & rotor.

    There are also several components specific to this fuel injection design that can fail and can cause the fuel pump not to run.

    Before spending money on replacement parts, check to make sure that the fuel pump is in fact running. You said you can get it to run with stuff being sprayed in the throttle body. One thing to consider is this.. when you disconnect the air intake tube, you're bypassing the AFM (Air Flow Meter). This will prevent the car from being able to run (I assume you know this already).

    The other thing is... the fuel pump will not turn on if certain conditions are met. Do you have the factory alarm? (you would have a second door lock slot on the drivers side quarter just behind the drivers side door). This fails (often) and prevents the car from starting. If you don't have that, then the next thing is the DME. This relay (located under the dash) can fail, and will prevent the fuel pump from getting voltage.

    Yet ANOTHER thing that will prevent the car from running are the crank sensors. if they don't sense the crank moving, they won't provide power to the fuel pump either. The ECM is clearly moving as you are getting voltage to the ignition (obviously since you can get it to run with fuel).

    So I would check those.

    A quick easy way to tell if those are bad is to hook up a power lead directly from the battery, to the positive terminal on the fuel pump (located behind the rear passenger side wheel well). You can hook it up, and then quickly run around to the drivers side and try to start the car. If it runs, then you have a problem with those things I mentioned above. If you need new crank sensors (known as "reference sensors" you can get more information on my web site under Tech Articles. There are cheaper ones than the standard Porsche ones that work JUST as well.

    Chances are, depending on mileage and how long the car has sat, you'll also need a new AFM. They run about $350-400 bucks for a Porsche 944... yeah, I know... they can be rebuilt so you can get a good rebuilt one from a company named "Python" for about half that.

    Feel free to e-mail me if you have any specific questions... or need more help.

    It's a great car when it runs...

    Hopefully you don't have any sunroof leaks... otherwise you've got quite a bit more fun ahead of you.
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    heart2heart2 Member Posts: 38
    I have an '84 944 with only 32K miles and tires are of 1987 vintage but look good ie no cracks or at least external dry rot. Also engine mounts are bad. Anyone remember if there was a problem with original engine mounts? Also any rec. for replacement tires if I decide to go that route?
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    Hi heart2,

    I've got a couple things I'd like to mention, but first I'll answer your question. With respect to the age of the tire, there is usually a date code that is imprinted on the tire. If the tire's age really is around 1987, then you won't be able to find this code. Realistically, if the car was stored indoors, especially climate controlled, then you likely won't see any cracking. However, the tires are still relatively dry and probably will fail in due time. Certainly not something you want on a performance car anyway. My recommendation is to replace them. I highly recommend going to TireRack.com. You DON'T need to buy them from there, but it will give you a good idea of what you want. Your tire size (if original) is 215/60/15. This was a very popular tire size back in the 80s for performance cars, like the Pontiac Fiero V6, the 944, and the Toyota Supra. This tire size really isn't as common anymore, but I know that they still sell some in that size. Pirelli has a nice tire that fits that size, and Goodyear has brought back their "Eagle GT" which was one of the more predominant tires of that era. They are relatively vintage looking (for that time frame) but with modern tread and materials. The Eagle GTs I think go for about $70 dollars a tire while the Pirellis go for about $160 a tire.

    It also depends on what you're looking for. I live in Fort Lauderdale so my cars will NEVER, EVER see snow. Because of that, the only tire I'm interested in is a performance tire that has good wet and dry adhesion. Basically, a NON-All Season tire. If you plan to drive in the snow, the High Performance All Season Eagle GTs, while not only a great price, are also probably the BEST tire for you. That's what I would recommend... at least on a stock tire, and if you're trying to keep the car period correct. (these are brand new tires manufactured within the last year, FYI).

    You can have these tires shipped to your house, or to an installer. Or, you can simply determine the tires you want, and then ask your favorite tire place to order them for you.

    If you car does have 32k miles, then it means (as you would know) that it's been garaged probably most of it's life. Even though the car runs really well right now, I have to warn you that your timing belts and many of the seals may be on the verge of failure. The 1984 Porsche 944 does not have an auto tensioner, and the belts must be changed every 35k miles or every 5 years as per the service card. If you still have your original belts in the car, I would recommend that the VERY FIRST THING YOU DO is to have them changed out. It costs about $500-600 dollars at the local Porsche dealership and then you must go back after 500 miles for retentioning (which is usually included in the original price).

    Please heed my warning on this. It would be a real shame to see a ~32k mile survior with a damaged cyl head show up on eBay...

    Todd
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    heart2heart2 Member Posts: 38
    Todd: Thanks for the info. I drive the car very infrequently and it is garaged. I plan to start getting it out at least once a week since the good weather is starting. I have owned the car since new and to look at it you would think it is brand new. Timing belt, water pump replaced 2 yrs ago. Now it is getting new engine mounts, new radiator (original still in car) and brake fluid changed. The clutch slave cylinder leaked all over the garage and that is being replaced as well. I will probably replace the tires over the next couple of mos as well and the Goodyear (which are on car now from 1987) sound like a good bet. I will just need to find a careful installer if I purchase from Tire Rack. The stock radio does not work and I will need to find one and probably replace it and check the speakers. It really is a nice car and with the price of new ones I will keep this one repaired.
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    tlabuzantlabuzan Member Posts: 3
    motor mounts have been redesigned several time, maybe 4 or 5 so the newest ones are supposed to hold up.
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    jasemanjaseman Member Posts: 1
    Hi guys can anyone help?
    i have a 1982 944 and the problem started when my battery kept going flat and was not being re charged.So I bought a new battery and still the same so i bought a new alternator and still the same, when engine running the battery test results were showing just under 12v instead of about 14v? I have now noticed that when i turn the ignition onto the first click without the engine running the temperature shoots straight to red and i have no battery or oil light displayed on the dash. I have checked all ground points and they all seem to be ok?
    Any help will be greatly appreciated as it is driving me mad :confuse:
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    douglass2douglass2 Member Posts: 3
    Hi, any help appreciated. My 85.5 944 turn signal stopped working, I took the steering wheel off, then the turn signal part which was held together with four rivets. I drilled out the rivets, got inside the box, cleaned and sanded the contacts, re-assembed and my turn signals now work fine. HOWEVER, my horn has stopped working (fuse & relay ok), and the dashboard indicator light for which gear I am in, now comes on only when my headlights or parking lights are on! This seems most peculiar, since I re-assembled the turn signal box, with all its contacts to the harnesses, very carefully. I can't understand how the two malfunctions I note above should have resulted from what I did. Any advice on how to correct these two functions will be appreciated.
    ALSO, my muffler system is quite new and upon careful inspection I can't find any leaks all the way from the manifold to the tailpipe--yet, I get exhaust fumes in the cabin if the windows or roof are open. If they are closed I get no exhaust fumes. I tried the test of plugging the tailpipe to see if that would kill the engine--the engine hesistated but kept running, so I would guess there's a leak somewhere, is that true?
    Any leak must be up near the manifold because the exhaust pipes are pretty new and a leak would be easily found. How do I find the leak so I don't get asphixiated with the windows down? And if there is a leak, how come I don't get any exhaust in the cabin when the windows and roof are closed?
    Thanks for any help.
    Doug, Toronto
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    dark944dark944 Member Posts: 9
    Hello all. If anyone has some ideas I would love to hear them. I have an 88 944, it runs great however I have no brake lights or instruments. I was able to check the bulbs. those are fine. the fuses are okay as well. Slot 18 and 19 were not getting power. I checked to make sure everything in box was connected it was. So I figured I would jump the circuit just to see if everything came on and worked. So I jumped power to the fuse slot and I was able to get them working for a few moments. Now here is the odd part. There was a click that came from the cruise control unit. This had also poped right before everything started working. Once I turned the key off it popped again and then nothing worked anymore. All the clicks came from cruise control unit. So what I am thinking is that my cruise control switch or circuit is open and not allowing the power to get to the fuse box. Is there a relay or something that trips out on these in this manner? I would disconnect the cruise control but looking over the diagram it seems the brake lights and clutch also tie in with the cruise on the same circuit. Anyone go through this? :confuse:
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    tdoubletdouble Member Posts: 4
    I've had my 84 944 for a few years now howerever its been parke since i bought it . i'm just getting my liscence back and want to put it on the road. All my lights were working last year but now only my headlights and break lights and signals work. my marker lights, tail lights and running lights dont work. also my washer fluid pump wont work either the switch for the pump works ive tested the wire for power and they do work the pump is new and it works but wen i plug it in it wont work. anybody got any ideas wat i should do before i take it to a shop?
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    dark944dark944 Member Posts: 9
    Hello, looking over all the stuff from my car the circuits seem pretty straight forward. I would start at the fuse box and look over those. If those are good check your bulbs. IF all of that is good it could be the switch for the lights. the first click might be worn or lost contact to acknowledge the switch. Good luck, I know those shops are tough 75$ per hour and 1 hour just to look it over. hard to cough up right now.
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    msimmsim Member Posts: 1
    Hi Doug, did you get any answers on your fumes? I am a new owner of a 1988 Lux and face the same problem, but only when windows are down. No problems with leaks to be found underneath or in engine bay. I wondered if there was some vortex at work dragging the air back into the cabin. It is spoiling the fun even though the weather is not great in UK at present. I am new to this site also, so I am sorry if I have missed any posted feedback. Mike
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    tdoubletdouble Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for replying dark944 . I've checked all my fuses, replaced all my lights and my switch. still no changes tho . think i might have to goto to the shop.
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    dark944dark944 Member Posts: 9
    Hey t I have one more thing you might look at. I have been going through my car all over even tore the dash apart looking for a frayed wire or short. Looks like my problem was one of the big relays in the fuse box. I pulled out one G15 I believe. It is labeled instruments and light relay in the fuse box. Well the ends of it were blackened. i scraped them back down to shiney metal and plugged it back in. My brake lights and dash came back to life. So i would check some of those they may just be dirty and not have a clean connection. :blush:
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    tdoubletdouble Member Posts: 4
    Heres my problem. I've got a 1984 944 w/ a new battery and rebuilt alternator. Everything was running good and all the sudden the battery will not charge. i've tested the alternator and it is good. I tested the ignition wire ( wire that goes from ignition to alternator) with the key in the on position and it is not giving any power out. is this my problem?
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    tdoubletdouble Member Posts: 4
    Hey thanks again for replying . I figured it out it was a bad connection from one tail light to the other. i ran a new wire and viola all my lights work.
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    dark944dark944 Member Posts: 9
    tdouble, not sure on the ignition wire. I would check your batter cables though. Just because they look good on one end or the other. the cable could be full of corrosion under the shrinkwrap. This could stop the flow of juice back to your battery. Just cut into a section behind your cable where it is shrink wrapped. Open up the shrink wrap and look at cable. The cable should be shiney, if its is full of green or brown crud then i would say just buy a new cable. If cable looks good then just get some electrical tape and wrap the cut section back up.
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    demonpedrodemonpedro Member Posts: 1
    Hi Doug, Hi msim.
    I'm led to believe that when you open a window or sun roof in the 944, it creates a differential pressure in the cabin. This tries to 'suck' hot engine air (not exhaust) in through the gear lever housing and gaiter. With a good seal on the gaiter, no fumes but a lot of heat. With any gaps, engine air gets in and smells. How dumb - open windows and it gets too hot.
    Haven't heard of a fix but I would havr thought that some sort of heat deflector could be rigged up under the gear lever ???
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    pdunk2009pdunk2009 Member Posts: 1
    I'm replacing the fuel pump and even though the new battery has 12.6 volts there is only 9.8 volts at the pump terminals with the pump hooked up. And it will not run and pump fuel. Out of the car the pump runs fine using a battery charger or battery and there is 12.6 volts at the pump terminals. If I'm losing voltage through the pump relay is there anyway to test the relay to see it it's the problem?
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    Honestly, they go bad quite frequently. It's the DME relay in the fuse panel.

    The only way to really test it is to take it out and use a continuity voltage tester on it by providing switched power and a continuous hot and then just measure the voltage going into it and out of it.
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    ohio1948ohio1948 Member Posts: 2
    I changed fuel pump and still not getting fuel, I have dme fuel relay but there are multiple relays under dash. How do I know one from the other? One relay is now causing a continuous buzzing when battery is connected after I removed that first relay at top left and plugged back in.
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    Ok, what I'm going to tell you is ABSOLUTELY the best way to rule out ALL possible problems. It will tell you A) if your fuel pump is good, B) if your ECM is good, and C) if your car is actually running.

    What you need to do is wire your fuel pump up manually. You can do this temporarily by feeding a wire through one of the drain holes in the rear fender (on the passenger side where the fuel pump is). Feed that wire through the inside of the car and have it coming out of the door jamb, into the cowl and hook it up directly to the battery.

    What you do is wire it up to the fuel pump (disconnect the lead on the fuel pump) and then get ready to start your car. Pop the hood, and hook that lead up directly to the batery. This will ENGAGE the fuel pump and the fuel pump will be running. At this point of course, the car will be off and the key will be in the OFF position. The fuel pump CAN run with the car off, it simply maintains pressure in the system.

    Now, make sure the wire is secure, get into the car, and try to start the car. If the car starts and runs, then you know all three things are true: A, fuel pump works, B: the car's ECM / Computer is good, and C: the car actually runs, which tells you all the OTHER possibly positives like... it's not a problem with the crank position sensors, or the AFM meter, or anything else.

    That will tell you RIGHT then and there that it's the DME relay.

    I sold my Porche a year ago so I can't tell you for sure which relay is the one that's the DME relay. I DO however seem to recall that it was the BIGGEST one that was located on the SECOND ROW in the back.

    Anyway, the above method is only TEMPORARY. You don't really want to do any driving around like this other than what is absolutely necessary. This is how I worked out all the problems on my own car (also an 84 Porsche 944).

    Trust me, it will be a huge relief to you when you get the car running at this point. If you do need new crank position sensors, you'll want to get the BMW replacements. They're the same as the Porsche ones, but 1/3rd the price. (worked on my Porsche and the car ran AWESOME). Check it out under the tech articles at http://www.PontiacPerformance.Net
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    944project944project Member Posts: 4
    People heres one for you. Got a 85 944 lux 2.5 auto the fuel pump relay has been by passed hence its running all the time, headlamps have been dim for 15 years and the previous owner has run the live from one to feed the other, that has been cut out, the h lamp switch when pressed on activated the h lamp motor, the live for the pump has been breached into the live from the washer jet motor. What electrics worked, side lamps, indicaters, reverse lamps and stop and tails electric windows dash lamps,rear fog lamps have never worked. the washers have been wired onto a switch on the centre console and all relays work (no AC not fitted)
    Yes the car is a project but a do-able one new auto box wheel bearings, torque converter and lots more.

    The problem, have changed the fuse boards wire for wire and checked the relays all ok a bit of a burn out on number five block at the first pin on the bottom and centre of the block, rewired soldered and lengthened, feeds going to all the main lives and voltage checked all pushing 13.5 plus volts, took clocks out and the rear mister wire has been breached to feed the fuel pump live??? i know, i now have clock, interior lamps no window motor and the main beam comes on when the left stalk is pulled towards the driver, no pop up lamps when h lamp switch pressed and still no rear foggs, all earth checked.
    I need to know the colour of the wires to the fuse board in order to chase the problem but unable to get the relevent colour codes andiagrams, haynes manual crap,
    Any ideas Porsche enthuasists.
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    Hey 944project, my reply won't really be much help in terms of solving your problem, but it's a better idea of how to tackle these problems. Rather than focusing on the big issue, a better way to look at it is to try to fix each "system" seperately. For example, if your windows don't work, then focus on fixing JUST that, first.

    Unfortunately, you're probably going to have to tear out most of the interior to expose a lot of the wiring. I would even recommend maybe removing the dash so that you can have easy access. The dash is NOT hard to remove. It's only attached by 4 or 6 philips head screws if I remember correctly. You should have easy access to all of the wiring.

    You can actually TEST all the wiring (at the doors) where they connect to the harness inside the car by hooking up the leads to a 9 volt battery. A fresh 9 volt battery will provide enough power for you to be able to test the up and down motion (if this works, then you know that you won't need to open up the doors). You can also use a car battery with leads attached of course too.

    Anyway, once you've tested the wires at the door, you can then follow the harness all the way back behind the dash and to the fuse panel. I'm willing to bet that more than likely the problem is relays. The relays in the Porsche 924 / 944 are notorious for failing, plus the fact that the car is already 25 years old...

    Porsche rather over-engineered this car, and by doing so made it less reliable than it could have been. Almost everything is on a relay, and if you have an 85 vs an 85.5 then you have the old fuse block too... (if you have the old style interior, then you've got the old wiring harness).

    Anyway, I hope that helps some. Try to focus on one system at a time... you're going to have to take apart your interior (it's not hard, I gutted mine and then put it all back) in order to properly trace the wires.

    Good luck...
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    hawaii9hawaii9 Member Posts: 1
    I have an 86 944, with a bunch of electrical problems. First the windows quit. That was some time ago. Recently I lost the wipers, both front and rear. The fogs have gone, the air blowers,and the ect. mirrors. I first cleaned 6 of the 7 grounds, checked all the fuses, and then all the relays for continuity,and cleaned the lugs, every thing checks out fine.
    I did find a squat item in with the relays called "spare links" Could this be the problem? can't figure out hoe to check it. Can anyone help with this? I have no idea what to do next. Help!!!

    Thanks
     
    Paul
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    944project944project Member Posts: 4
    Hi people, i have brought a 944 in white some time ago that needs a LOT of TLC, on flicking through various web sites the other day i noticed on one site that the UK only had 37 white 944's in the country, is this true or false can anybody tell me.

    Thanks.
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    944project944project Member Posts: 4
    I too have one with electric probs etc, i have cleared the waterways and ensured that the water, doesnt enter the interiour of the car via the battery tray thats above the fuse board (have a look) then i researched on fitting the later fuse boards, there are several earth points above the fuse board under the battery tray that corrode and turn green, clean these buggers up and check the fuses. Also several blocks on the back of the board can get hot, put a meter on them and check continuanity voltage under load etc.
    Good luck.
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    944project944project Member Posts: 4
    Thanks mate, that's good advice, i have most of the inside in bit's, but it's not a hard car to take apart and diagnose.
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    dark944dark944 Member Posts: 9
    Hello all, I have an 88 944, the top part of the backseat was not together when i got the car. Does anyone know what size the seat bolt is for the side of the upper back seat. Are the stock ones hex or allen headed bolts? thanks for any info. cannot seem to find a print that has the bolt size on it. ;)
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    Hi, are you talking about the bolts that hold in the bracket which attaches the SEAT BACK to the inner sides of the vehicle? Specifically, as you know, you can push the seat back down and up. When it's in the up position, are you referring to the bracket that allows you to latch it to the sides?

    I know that those bolts are ALLEN head. They are tapered so that they sit flush with the bracket. I no longer own my Porsche 944, but if you want to look at this picture: (http://www.pontiacperformance.net/CarImages/84_Porsche/944_carpet_3_lrg.JPG) you'll see the bracket just to the right of the speaker and to the left of the fuel filler neck bump-out in the trunk area. It's held in by three bolts. If you're missing this bracket, you'll want to get one. There's a place called German Auto Dismantlers. I've ordered from them in the past, but they have dozens of 944s and that should be a relatively trivial piece for them to get for you.
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    dark944dark944 Member Posts: 9
    Hello all, My odometer is not turning. I have removed the cluster from the dash. The small gears seem to be free and the tripodometer resets with ease. All the connections on the cluster are good but still no odometer turning. Anyone have any ideas? :confuse:

    Also my wiper control is not working very well. anyone ever replace the control unit on the sterring wheel? I was thinking about changing it out but have not seen any around for replacement.

    Thanks in advanced to all who reply and read.
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    dark944dark944 Member Posts: 9
    Hi todd, thanks for the reply yeah the upper back seat bolts. I got them I just took a few and sized it up. back seat is in movi9ng on now to the dash stuff. lol
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    edited March 2010
    Hi, if your odometer is not turning, and you can verify that the cable IS in fact turning, the the problem is likely in the odometer itself. Can you try spinning the odometer feed by sticking in a small philips head or something to get leverage? Or even putting a square tip into a power drill. If you don't see the tenths moving, then what could be the problem is that either the gears are messed up, or they are gummed up.. which would likely mean the gear that powers the entire assembly is spinning freely from the shaft.

    As far as the wiper control motor... I assume this is an 83-85 Porsche 944? The wiper controls are very easy to change out, but you'll have to remove the steering wheel. You then have to remove the TOP and BOTTOM of the steering column "shell". it looks like a clam-shell. I think there are two or three small philips head screw drivers. You can then remove the top and bottom, and you'll be able to get at the wiper stalk. You can see here inthis picture on my site where I removed the wheel and you can see how it's attached. One you remove the steering wheel, you'll have to remove those three brass screws that hold the retaining plate on (also shown in pictrure)

    http://www.pontiacperformance.net/CarImages/84_Porsche/944_gauge_3_lrg.jpg

    EDIT: Just wanted to make sure I Was clear. There are little philips head screws that hold the "clam-shell" together that encases the outer part of the steering column. Those screws are located from the bottom. You'll see them once you look under there. YOu remove those three and then you can take them off. Then of course once the steering wheel and that is off, then you remove those three screws from the backing plate (that you'll see in the picture from my site) and that comes off (careful) and you can easily unbolt the wiper control stalk with like two small screws.
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    dark944dark944 Member Posts: 9
    I have an 88 944. I have taken the steering wheel off. I have tried to push the odometer but its resistant. i did not want to force but maybe that is the problem.

    The wiper controls do not contact I have to hold them forward slightly before they conect and the arms move. So I was thinking of just replacing it but like I say I have not seen replacements.

    thanks for the reply.
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    84porschegrl84porschegrl Member Posts: 2
    I just got a 1984 Porsche 944 on Friday. I love it!! Today I drove it (for my first time) and took it to work. It began raining at the end of the day. When I got in the car after work, I did not notice any leaking/wet spots. A few hours after I got home, I went into the car to get something and noticed the passenger side floor mat and carpet underneath the mat were soaking wet. And when I say soaking, I mean I hung the mat from the back of my husband's pick up truck and the water was dripping off it. When I opened the hood, I noticed that next to the battery there are 3 small holes. When I stuck my hand up behind the glove compartment area, I could feel water there too.

    Could the water have run in from the engine compartment into the cabin? (I was parked on a slight incline) What are these 3 holes next to the battery for? Is there something that I can put in these holes to prevent any further leaking?

    Thanks for your help!

    84porschegrl :cry:
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    Hi 84 Porsche Girl,

    This is EXACTLY where your problem is. Unfortunately, the Porsche 944 is notorious for having leaks in predominantly two areas, the sunroof, and the battery tray. There should be NO holes in the floor of the battery tray. You should see two holes however, one coming from the sid that goes into what looks like the fender area, and I believe this comes from a drain hole in the sunroof. The other hole should be a spout which drains the area around the battery and into the engine compartment (but presumably onto the ground and not on the engine). Unfortunately, the battery tray functions as both a water runoff from the cowl-area and a battery tray.

    You MUST plug those holes or it will continue to leak water into your car. You MUST make sure too that you don't allow this to continue or you will get mold in your car. The Porsche uses an older style carpet backing which is a foamy jute type material. It absorbes water and will grow mold if left in the sun afterwards with the wndows up.

    The right way to repair this area would be to weld a patch panel in it. This is what I did with my 84. I ground the area down with a wire brush until the area was completely opened up and then welded a small patch on it. If this is absolutely not an option, you could try to seal it using something like "Rhino Liner" or some sort of truck bed material. (RTV sealant will scrape right off).

    Hope that helps.

    FYI, it's leaking onto your A/C fan.
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    lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Todd, with all that knowledge, you need to get another 944.

    I bought my '86 from a guy similar to you. He bought it running and in decent shape for around $5,500 on eBay. Over the next year, he spent a couple thousand more replacing injectors, the clutch, tires, the timing belt and water pump, etc. (not including his free labor). At that point, the car still had a couple paint issues, some rips in the seats and a nonworking AC. After getting the shaft from two different eBayers, he sold it to me for $2500. I've had it for three years now. I put some nice seat covers on it. Other than, the only thing I've done is changed the DME relay. I've had the urge to do a little paintwork, fix the AC, recover the seats, etc. I've resisted knowing that I'll be the one selling the car at a big loss afterwards. These are definitely cars you need to buy completely done unless you are looking for a labor of love.
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    ohio1948ohio1948 Member Posts: 2
    the holes around battery are to drain runoff from battery area which will fill if undrained. Your leak is likely from rear hatch or sunroof . This seals dry out. Check the drain holes at rear hatch which should be at each bottom.
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    Yeah, it's definitely a labor of love. I miss my Porsche 944 a LOT too..

    But, I'm back to school after work two days a week, and I now have a daughter, so all the fun stuff had to take a back seat for a couple of years.

    I took a big loss on my 944 as well. I bought it for $1,500 or something? Put about 4 grand into it in which I basically completely tore apart the car from bottom to top, and then sold it for $2,018. I picked the guy up from the airport and drove it up from Fort Lauderdale to Ohio. He drives it every day to work and loves it... says he gets 30+ miles to the gallon on the highway... sigh...

    When I'm finished with school, I'll get another one.

    I still have my Pontiac Fiero (first car) and a 73 VW Bus both in the garage... so I dunno where I'll have the room for the Porsche if / when I get another one. I REALLY REALL like the 944 though and will definitely get one of those before I get any other kind of Porsche. I still have a totally rebuilt 1969 Olds 455 big block rated at around 480hp with no car to put it on... it's just sitting on an engine stand in the garage.

    Maybe I'll sell that and buy my Porsche 944? hehe....
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    dark944dark944 Member Posts: 9
    Hello 84porschegrl, Yes if you open the hood and look on the drivers side of your car junt under the windshield you will see your fuse box. Behind it and below is an openeing for water to drain. make sure these stay free of leaves and stuff otherwise the water will rise and your driverside will get wet. If you have and air compressor just stick in and blow it out. If not put a vacum nossel from the car wash in there and suck it out. The same goes for the battery side however its easier to get to by removing the battery. hope that helped. :blush:
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    84porschegrl84porschegrl Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for all the tips everyone!! We found a clog in one of the drains and blew it out with an air compressor and no more leaks!! YAY!!

    Now my other problem. When I bought the car, the air conditioning worked. Now, it will not blow out cold air. There is free-on (sp?) in the car and it seems like the compressor is not working. Is this common for these cars? Could there be something else causing this to happen?
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    todd82tatodd82ta Member Posts: 32
    It's no more or less common in the Porsche 944 than it is on any other car that's 25 years or older.

    If it were mine, the first thing I would check would be to see if the compressor is actually spinning. You can check this by starting your car, and then engaging the A/C. You should hear a fan turn on under the passenger side of the dash. Remember, the 944 actually has TWO cabin fans... there is a fresh-air fan which is ALWAYS running. That is the fan that's actually located inside the cowl area in the very center. Even with the fan switch turned completely off, it's still running slowly to create flow-through venthilation. The other fan ONLY comes on cars equipped with A/C, and that is the one located on the passenger side. When you turn the A/C fan knob (top of center console), you'll hear this fan go on. If you do NOT hear the fan go on, then there's something wrong with either the fan, or the circuit. For the life of me, I don't have any of my Porsche manuals or anything else left of my Porsche except a EuroSpec 944 front bumper in my attic, so I can't tell you exactly what fuse it is. However, you'll want to check your manual and see if you can find what fuses and or relays control the A/C and test them.

    If the fan turns on, that means the inside is OK. Go outside and pop the hood of the car. Look at the A/C compressor and check to see if the "clutch" has engaged. If the CLUTCH has engaged, you will physically see the front of the A/C compressor spinning. If the front of the compressor is not spinning, then that means the compressor has not engaged, and it's doing nothing more than acting as a dead pulley (IE: the belt will freely turn the compressor pulley, but it's not engaging the clutch).

    This can mean any number of things. Typically... when freon (R12 or R134a if it's been retrofitted) is low, it alerts a low pressure sensor which prevents the clutch from engaging. This is to save the compressor from burning out since without freon, it's likely not getting any oil in the lines either. These sensors can ALSO go bad, and it would be something you'd want to investigate if in fact you did have the correct pressure level at both he high and low pressure fittings.

    That would be my next step however... is to check the freon level. You'll want to get the appropriate guages and check the levels.

    If everything seems good, but you're STILL not getting cool air, then check the vent operation. This of course is the lever that allows you to switch between fresh air and cabin recirculation. Some of the flaps in the ductwork are controlled by vacuum, so it's possible that it's just not properly blowing the cool air (although it would likely default to the window defrost. Anyway, you can check the vacuum lines by disconnecting it at the vacuum canister. This canister is located JUST to the passenger side of the cowl fan I mentioned earlier. It's a cyl with a half spherical end. Disconnect the hose from the back and put your finger on it while the car is running. If you feel vacuum, there is good vacuum. More than likely however, you would hear a hissing noise inside your car (subtle) and your idle would be 100-150-200 rpms higher than it should.

    Hope that helps...
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