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Comments
I don't think the agenda is hard to figure out for either side. The one wants to maintain the status quo with negative economic growth, the other no restrictions on growth. The middle ground is going the way of the middle class. Or the haves want to keep control over the have nots. The elitist view is, I am entitled to drive around in my 6 Suburbans you little people need to get a Yugo to cut GHG.
me: I have asked this many times before myself. I can see a warming Earth may cause some land to become uninhabitable but I can also see more areas becoming habitable. Right now there are vast stretches of Canada and Asia where only a few people scratch out an existence, and want to live.
Living in NH as I do, I know that the "typical" day is too cold - below my minimum comfort level of 70F. Consequentially I run my wood-stove 8 - 9 months per year, which creates CO2. And my neighbors use lots of oil and propane to heat their houses.
Thus my personal experience is that the Earth is too cold, and I'd like to see it much warmer. My preference therefore is not to want to limit my CO2 emissions.
Here's the basic issue to this question though. If you ask the billions of people on this planet if they want a car, 99% will answer yes, as it is the best form of transport invented. And how much do they want to drive - quite a bit (if we had the money and supply). And since there is no current replacement for oil/gasoline for the hundreds of millions of autos built and being built, oil will need to be burnt.
All forms of hydrocarbon fuels on this earth will continue to be burnt until they are exhausted, civilization comes to an end, or we come up with an advanced nuclear energy.
Correct.
"The worst part is the whole GHG thing is a political tool. Has very little to do with science and a lot to do with fear mongering and manipulating elections."
Really? You don't say......
I thought that fear mongering was purely the domain of the GOP (he says sarcastically....)
OK, I can buy that.
But how quickly is TOO quickly? And just how much HAS it gone up over the last century (because I've seen numbers all over the map regarding the severity of the increase and the rate of increase).
BTW - I saw a little demonstration of the effects of CO2 as a GHG once on TV. The demonstration entailed a couple of empty 3liter soda bottles. One was filled with fresh air, sealed and left in the sun with a temperature probe. The second was filled with CO2, sealed and left in the sun with a temperature probe.
Over the course of several hours, SONOFAGUN, sure enough, the temperature in the CO2 filled bottle was, in fact, a couple of degrees higher than the other bottle. Wow, was I impressed....
Until I realize that the % of CO2 in our atmosphere varies from around 0.03% to around 0.06% and with the 'massive' increases in CO2 emmissions these figures may jump up to 0.04% to 0.07%......and that bottle used in the 'demonstration' was probably close to 50% CO2.....
Actually I wouldn't mind seeing temperatures go up about 3 degrees. I live in So. Maryland and we get about 6 snowfalls a year. It seems that everytime we are right above the snow/rain boundary. A few degrees should push that boundary a little north and I would almost never have to deal with snow.
No. I'm disputing the MAGNITUDE of the corellation. And given the huge range in predicted temperature increases (and rate of temperature increases), many scientists do as well.
BTW - one may ask how they know what the CO2 levels were in the past; afterall, we can't take air samples from 100-200-500 years ago, right?
Wrong. By analyzing ice cores, scientists can get a pretty good idea of what those old CO2 levels were. And plenty of evidence has been circulated showing a marked correlation between CO2 levels and the advent of the industrial revolution.
Hmmmm, but there may be a problem with the ice-core CO2 levels.....
http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/
The models are based on increased CO2 casusing a small amount of warming and this results in more water vapor in the atmosphere and this warms things a bit more and this results in even more water vapor in the atmosphere...
The weather is not even predictable enough that they could figure out that there was plenty of time to play a ball game before any significant rain came in NY last night
Versa owners are reporting barely cracking 30 MPG in the real world.
The Corolla's engine is quite noisy and the ride may be rough at 70 MPH on a wavy, worn highway. A new, nicer Corolla may be out in a year.
Perhaps because the weight of the oxygen in CO2 (which comes from the air) is more than double the weight of the Carbon?
That might not sound like a lot at first, but when you think about a car sucking down 400 cubic feet of air per minute, that's about two pounds per minute it's taking in. Or about 120 pounds per hour.
LOL!
Andre, 0.0807 lbs./cf = about 12.4 cf/lb (just take the inverse of 0.0807).
So, 12.4 cf of air = 1 pound.
A molecule of carbon weighs about 12. Gasoline is about 85% carbon, so 14 pounds of gasoline would contain 12 pounds of carbon.
When burned completely, each carbon molecule results in a molecule of CO2 . Each molecule of CO2 weighs about 44. So 12 pounds of carbon (14 pounds of gasoline) should result in about 44 pounds of CO2. Therefore, the weight of CO2 is about 3.1 times the weight of the gasoline (44 pounds CO2 divided by 14 pounds gasoline).
A gallon of gasoline actually weighs about 5.6 to 6.5 pounds, not 7...so a gallon of gasoline should create about 17.5 to 20 pounds of CO2.
I thought something didn't seem right though in my calculation. If it really took 198 cubic feet of air to get to one pound, I'm guessing hot air balloons, helium dirigibles, etc, wouldn't be able to displace enough air to get off the ground!
(unless you are reading this thread on top of Mt. Everest. )
From a marine biology standpoint ...I can say that the warming of the Earth has caused massive die offs of coral reefs everywhere.
We need to drive less, bunch up our errands, and convince people not to adopt the American way of life...and go back to bicycles and walking and mass transit, IMO.
People in Venezuela, where gasoline is only 12 cents a gallon, are all flocking to get into SUVs....
On the subject of this thread, I wonder how much damage is caused by the thousands of gas powered leaf blowers that show up around here this time of year. Not to mention the noise pollution.
And of course, the out of sequence stop lights my area enjoys cause harm too.
Actually, standard air pressure (at sea level) is 14.7 psi.
Kind of like Lily Tomlin at the phone company....we don't care, we don 't have to. It's not like these guys can face any accountability...
Dr. Irwin Kellner is chief economist for MarketWatch. He also is the Weller professor of economics at Hofstra University and chief economist for North Fork Bank.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/business/yourmoney/08view.html?ei=5090&en=3a74- - 9625ac447e79&ex=1317960000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnnlx=11605068- - 33-EzJLANskiHD/v7ILiCpsIA
Yes..I do have a cayenne...which does a lot for what I consider " my usage of gasoline" . DOes it waste gas ? I guess it is all in the eye of beholder , eh ? Let's just say I am not wasting any more gas then the guy in the small car , idling while waiting for his friends.
I am driving it less now....only on long trips or family trips. Just bought a Jetta TDi diesel, and gonna put biodiesel mixed with some regular diesel in it....kinda wean off the fossil fuel, a little bit, at least.
Yes..leaf blowers and out of sequence lights are all contributing..as welll as low pressured tires, gunning the engine, mindless idling the engine, cruising , etc....
I am thinking about getting the home biodiesel kit, but not sure as to its safety.
"If you actually idle your car for more than 10 seconds, you're wasting fuel," says Quentin Chiotti, air program director at Pollution Probe, a Canadian environmental watchdog group.
"That's a shockingly short amount of time."
An average idling gas engine burns 3.5 litres of fuel per hour. So if gas was selling at 85.9 cents per litre, in the 10 minutes you spent idling in the Tim Hortons lineup, you just threw away 50 cents.
If you did that five days a week, waiting for that morning coffee would cost you about $130 over a year.
PS
The 10 second goes against some auto manufacturers requirements. Some cars need to run at least 30 seconds on a cold morning for the transmission fluid to properly circulate. Many cars with turbos should be idled about a minute before they shut down also.
""Actually, standard air pressure (at sea level) is 14.7 psi. ""
so that may be the best example of global warming, eh? the warmer molecules are less dense, and causing less pressure...
J/K////
You are right, it is 14.7 psi ...give or take ....
Partially correct.
Actually, this is simply evidence that our atmosphere is slowly bleeding away into outer space. From ice core data, we know that 200 years ago the atmospheric pressure was closer to 20psi. Eventually, it will get too thin to keep the excess heat in and the whole planet will snap directly into an ice-age.
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Rocky
Rocky
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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FWIW my uncle has a 2003 Corolla, and commutes about 120-150 miles per day, depending on where his company sends him. He averages 34-38 mpg in mostly highway, albeit often stop-and-go, ground to a rush-hour halt traffic. He borrowed my Intrepid for about a week once, when his car had to go in the body shop, and I think he was averaging about 26-28 mpg with it.
It also says that fewer than 1/2 have a commute of 20 minutes or less. Lets be honest how far can you get in 20 minutes in rush hour traffic?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I tried to talk them into letting me telecommute 1 or 2 days a week, but they wouldn't go for it. I tried to stress the fact that most of what I do is on a computer, and can be done from home and if they really needed me in the office I could be there in 10-15 minutes, but it still didn't sway them.
So what I've been doing instead is just flat-out taking off about one day per week. I have a ton of leave saved up, and might as well use it.
I doubt if I'll be moving anytime soon, either. At 3.5 miles away, there's no sense in trying to move closer to work. And with the way house prices are, I don't think I could afford to sell my place and buy another! At least not another place with 4+ acres and a 4 car garage! So my commute will stay the same for the forseeable future.
They're doing some construction work on the roads though, and re-routing one of them. It'll be interesting to see if it does any good or not.
On behalf of me and all others who have to drive 1/2 hour or more to get to work I say unto you "Go take a hike".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Rocky
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061018/AUTO01/610180332/1148-
Rocky
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061018/BUSINESS01/610180331/10- 14
Rocky
P.S. This one should stir the pot a lil' more
I am seriously contemplating walking the four block commute starting tomorrow. And the population of the town I live in is around 3,700.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
With 12 more hybrid cars trucks and SUVs on pace to hit the road by the end of model year 2008, it seems like his opinion will be in the minority.
Even next year when they revise the way they test the cars for fuel economy, nothing will change as far as peoples' mileage varying heavily from the numbers on the window. However, they will probably all be a little more satisfied, because there will be more of a likelihood that the mileage they actually get will be higher than the numbers on the sticker.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Back then I drove 45 miles each way from the Skagit Valley north of Seattle to Everett, WA. The morning would take an hour and 15 minutes or so and the afternoon, with many people's rush hours merging in to the late afternoon, it could take me anywhere from an hour and a half to two hours because of the "rolling slowdowns". This small SE Arizona town I live in now is a welcome change commute-wise for me, as well as several other aspects of my life.
A good change.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117191
Rocky
Yeah, if I could ride a bike to work I would. Well, on the nice days at least. Unfortunately though, if the traffic didn't get me, a stray bullet might! :surprise:
There are some people here at work who ride their bike in though, so it can be done. A few months ago though, someone did get struck and killed by a woman in an SUV, on the road just outside of work.
Yet with their oil independence they are still subject to the ups and downs of the oil market. So what is to be gained by not importing oil?
As more countries get into the oil business especially the Soviet Bloc countries we will have less of a volatile supply chain.
The major reason for the price edging downward is the fact that OPEC does not have the clout they once had.
VIENNA, Austria — Oil prices slipped below $60 a barrel Monday on doubts that OPEC would pursue proposed production cuts and as geopolitical concerns lifted.
Light, sweet crude for December fell 89 cents to $59.86 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange by afternoon in Europe. Brent crude fell by $1.10 to $59.98 on the ICE Futures exchange in London.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/4296931.html