Fuel Economy and Oil Dependency

1464749515279

Comments

  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    they should consider cylinder deactivation system. Honda's v6 got one, and I bet its pretty neat since the now huge car still pull the same mileage as the old one.

    btw andre, the current Mustang use the same platform as Lincoln LS. Modified so it can take live axle instead of having to settle for independent (cost cutting, obviously). The use of LX platform for challenger is dumb imo, but makes sense as they got nothing else (the avenger platform is deemed a failure).
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I passed a 1988-91 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency for sale on my way to work this morning. The car appeared to be in pretty good condition, (at least from 50 ft away). I'm going to check it out at lunchtime. My only concern is that I heard that the Buick version of the FWD C-body was a lot more reliable than the Olds version. Funny because they're essentially the same underneath.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Go for it! You need another car almost as much as Andre does! Maybe you could add a Pontiac and a Chevy and have a GM grand slam...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,369
    The old 3800 V6 is supposed to get around 30 MPG highway, right? Not quite a "gas beater" the same way that an old Metro is, but more economical compared to an SUV.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Very true. My 1988 Buick Park Avenue can top 30 MPG under the right conditions. I guess something like a 3800 V-6 is my idea of a gas-saver as my other cars are a 1989 Cadillac Brougham and a 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance. I don't think I'd feel safe in an old Geo Metro and I'd look pretty silly as I'm a pretty big guy.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Did they use the 3.3L derivative of the 3800 in the FWD cars after 1990 or so? Seems that mill with a 4-speed might be your best option for a city-driven beater.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I went to look at that Olds and didn't even get out of my car when I saw it up close. The top is dry rotted, and the right front corner, (not visible from the street) was hit. It also appears that the clearcoat was peeling off in sheets from the right rear quarter panel. All my 1988 Buick needs is new paint for the roof, decklid, and hood. This Olds appears to be in worse shape than my current beater.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,071
    Did they use the 3.3L derivative of the 3800 in the FWD cars after 1990 or so? Seems that mill with a 4-speed might be your best option for a city-driven beater.

    I don't think that 3.3 version ever went in the C- or H-bodies. IIRC, it was mainly used in the A-body Century/Ciera. It might have gone into a few W-body Cutlass Supremes and Regals as well, but I'm not sure. I think those things used mainly Chevy 2.8/3.1's, and then Chevy 3.4's or Buick 3.8's in the later years.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Spotted a blue 1990 Oldsmobile Delta Royale on a used car lot. If it has the 3.8, low miles, and is reasonably priced, I might consider it.

    Why might you ask am I thinking of replacing the Park Ave? Seems girlfriend is ashamed of it in its current condition. I would like to get it PROPERLY repainted, but that seems like a fierocious waste of money for a car that could develop a terminal illness any time this late in its life.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Ahh, yes. The things we do for love! :blush:
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,369
    Paint it a solid color with a roller...

    Note: The above is a link to a thread on another auto forum, but it's a fairly specialized topic that I haven't seen come up here.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Interesting. Wonder if I can find that TREMCLAD in the same color as my 1988 Buick Park Avenue. First, I have to find out just what the color is. It is a really nice medium-dark blue metallic. If I had money to burn, I'd have the Park Ave professionally repainted as it really is a pretty blue. Heck, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to turn it into the nicest '88 Park Ave out there. Everything else appears to be in good condition. Of course then it won't be my "gas beater" anymore but another really nice car I'm too paranoid to drive.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,369
    IIRC, there aren't many different colors of metallic Rustoleum / Tremclad, but there are a lot of solid colors.

    My grandmother used to have a 1990 Park Avenue Ultra in navy blue metallic (with the navy vinyl roof). The Ultra model had the zillion-way adjustable leather seats (which were still relatively flat and not very supportive), and a smaller rear window.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    They have a US website and there are dealers around you just have to look.

    http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    As for another candidate, is the girl friend more for show than go? :blush:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    As common rail turbo diesels work on getting cleaner they also use a bit more fuel. The Jetta Nippon mentioned is a prime example. The Old diesel Rabbit I used to car pool in got 49 MPG in 1985. It was not a turbo, it was slow and I have no clue what it would have been rated using the new EPA standards but it got 49 day in and day out. Plus the new diesel fuel costs more to produce. Diesel has cost more than premium gas for many years now. Because it is also used as heating oil in the colder states it isn't likely to drop in price anytime soon. Where I live diesel is about 45-50 cents more than regular. Doing the math diesel isn't what it once was, I still like the torque it provides in a truck and wonder how well it might do in a mid sized vehicle but I would save any money getting one. And like Nippon said the Diesel VWs cost as much as a Hybrid Toyota and VW is hardly the dependable car Toyota is.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,675
    My buddy has the Military style model, it looks really cool and draws onlookers like flies, too bad it's a piece of crap.

    He's trying to figure out if he can put in a different motor.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Thats what I have heard for both the Indian built Enfields and the Russian built side car bikes whatever they are called Urals I think.

    The bike it self is good but the engines self destruct within a year or so as they just aren't machined to tolerances that are tight enough.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,547
    I want a Ural with a BMW engine. Cool looks and somewhat better durability.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,675
    I want a Ural with a BMW engine

    Might as well buy a Beemer rather than a BMW copy with a BMW engine.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah but you can't get a factory new BMW with a sidecar AFAIK.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,547
    I want a prewar style bike. A period BMW or Zündapp in nice shape will set you back 25K+++ (grows with the depreciating greenback)...a Ural or C-J would cost a fraction of that,and an old BMW engine couldn't cost a fortune.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    My mothers next door neighbor has three BMW bikes right now. One from the late 80s and the other two from the mid 90s. The late 80s bike has over 300,000 miles on the original engine. The other two bikes have over 100,000 miles and one has right around 200,000. Right after his son graduated High School they went on a trip to Alaska and that is where the 80s BMW went over 300,000 miles and on the way back the other bike passed 150,000 miles.

    Even an old BMW engine will last 10 times longer then the new engine in a Ural.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter from a large newspaper is looking to speak to consumers who filled up their tank for the first time and had to pay $100. If you’re interested in speaking to the reporter, please contact Chintan Talati at ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information no later than July 3 2008.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,547
    Off-topic, but what the hell...that reminds me, I also like the BMW R1200 GS series. But I like the old style sidecar rigs more.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I would love to get a nice used BMW touring bike as my second motorcycle but I have to get my skills back up first on something a little smaller and more manageable.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,547
    heh....I've never actually driven a motorcycle :blush: ...just been a passenger. I still don't have the guts to do it here.

    I do like sportbikes too, but I doubt I have the self-discpline or skill to keep myself free from injury or worse. Either that or I would drive it like a little old lady in a Buick, and that would go aganst the point. I do like somewhat larger engined bikes. Most of the old sidecar rigs were 750 units I think.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    OTOH, just think about how much nicer a drive the Jetta would be vs the Prius. I just can't figure it though: you would pay the same amount of money for the Jetta, and it would use 30% more fuel than the Prius, not to mention the fuel itself would cost 20% more. There is a reason that Prius is back on a 1-3 month waiting list with the gas prices now.

    It doesn't necessarily mean the VW TDIs are DOA though. I mean, VW only intended to import small volumes of them I suppose. They will still sell those without a problem probably.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The TDI will get better highway gas mileage then the prius but the prius will get better city mileage. It all depends on your commute which one would be better for you.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Nah, the Prius will do low to mid 40s even on the highway. The TDI won't beat that. And its fuel will still cost 20% more.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    fueleconomy.gov lists all the EPA data for cars by model, year, engine, etc.

    The VW Jetta TDI gets 30 mpg city, 38 mpg highway.

    The Toyota Prius gets 48 mpg city, 45 mpg highway.
    .
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Ummm, so you're agreeing with me, right?! :-)

    I started thinking about it, and really I think people whose sole focus is to save gas (maybe they're hanging on to the ol' gas hog as an extra vehicle for a while, maybe they just need a commute car that they don't drive much on weekends, etc) won't go for the TDIs.

    Not when Yaris and Corolla make 29/35 and 27/35 respectively, so very close to the Jetta for $5-8K less purchase cost and 20% cheaper fuel. You also have the Cobalt and the Civic at 25/36, again pretty close to the TDI for substantially less purchase money and much cheaper regular unleaded.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    The only real problem I have with diesels, apart from its fuel price, is the fact that they still cant fix that rattling engine. Yes the new, latest diesels are pretty sweet, but even those still rattle.
    Other gripes, albeit less prominent, are the horrible quality of american diesel fuel and the smoke that smells just eww...

    To be fair I find diesels the best option for off-roading. Since it lacks the gas engine's combustion component its possible to seal up the engine, making it possible for the vehicle to cross rivers without fearing the engine will get water hammered.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Did you miss this article on Edmunds?

    link title

    A 2005 Jetta TDI with over 50,000 miles on it and the PD style engine did beat the prius in highway and back roads driving. The new common rail TDI engine is more efficient then the old PD style.

    You can't go by the EPA ratings for small diesels as the EPA even admits that their tests handicap diesels by about 18%.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Yeah, diesels are the king for highway driving, but the only ones sold here are in land barges and Volkswagens (some of those are land barges themselves). :sick:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "An influential Republican senator suggested Thursday that Congress might want to consider reimposing a national speed limit to save gasoline and possibly ease fuel prices.

    Warner cited studies that showed the 55 mph speed limit saved 167,000 barrels of oil a day, or 2 percent of the country's highway fuel consumption, while avoiding up to 4,000 traffic deaths a year."

    National speed limit pushed as gas save (CNN)
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    You can't legislate morality, but you can legislate the state speed limit. 60 is preferred over 55 though. The American driver is not willing to make sacrifices and 55 is expecting too much in the way of a sacrifice. So what's the sacrifice? It is practicing better time management by leaving sooner.
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    I heard that a previous Democrat candidate endorsed the 55 mph speed limit, which in my view is the best way to ruin one's credibility.

    This look like the cheap solution that will allow politicians to duck and cover instead of finding the key alternatives.

    They forgot to address the issues of speeds slower than 55 mph. for such a SL to be effective, it should be a minimum speed too as we know that any speed below 45 mph seriously hurt fuel mileage. Traffic jams should be heavily fined as being at a standstill returns 0 MPG.

    Ridiculous.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Speed limits are in the realm of the state and the Feds should stay out of it.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • tinkermanlttinkermanlt Member Posts: 9
    While 55 saved 2% of the fuel back then, the cars weren't built for 65 like they are now!
    The Government needs to get real and do something!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,704
    >the cars weren't built for 65 like they are now!

    I don't believe the cars are "built" for any different speed now than then. Indeed with computer controls on the fuel and motor operation they are more efficient at all speeds than "back then."

    The truckers kept saying that their tractors were more efficient at 70 and 75 than at 55 and 60 therefore the speed limits for their massive loads had to be increased. Bullduky.

    I notice most truckers have slowed down the last many months. Obvious it is NOT costing them more fuel to slow down.

    I also notice it has taken the aggression out of their driving mode in many cases. They don't tailgate someone doing 60 in the righthand lane of the interstate.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Another nice side effect of the high gas prices! :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,839
    i disagree(again). 55 is too slow for modern vehicles. they just won't be able to make it up hills without downshifting, which kills your highway gas mileage.
    since you are in ohio, i think the reduced speeds are more reflective of the police speed enforcement than fuel efficiency.
    also, efficient at 70 to 75 mph could have meant a difference in range(miles driven per day), although i really think it had more to do with less regulation.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,704
    I'm on the other side of the thinking. Each of your points merits a response.

    >i disagree(again). 55 is too slow for modern vehicles. they just won't be able to make it up hills without downshifting, which kills your highway gas mileage.

    But by downshifting they speed up the motor and get it back to their claimed most efficient speed in rpms--the one they claim is most efficient on the level road at 80 mph.

    >since you are in ohio, i think the reduced speeds are more reflective of the police speed enforcement than fuel efficiency.

    The observation was through Kentucky, Tennessee, and Ohio (and a big of Indiana driving) over several weeks. The enforcement hasn't changed in Ohio. In the past the high speed truckers could drive with impunity and almost never would get stopped. We have too few State Patrol officers on the road because they are all guarding the Governor and Columbus.

    Speed limit is 55 for some trucks but 65 for others.

    >also, efficient at 70 to 75 mph could have meant a difference in range(miles driven per day), although i really think it had more to do with less regulation.

    We don't really care about their range per day. Fuel conservation is more important; they need to adjust their planning just as they have had to readjust to the new time in the seat standards since the new regs went into effect.

    I've seen too many accidents through this area caused by truckers meeting deadlines, driving too long, driving too fast, whatever excuse they have when the end up in the courtroom.

    Traffic had slowed because of construction on I70. Best example is the driver who rear ended a pickup truck on his way to work because the semi driver was "tired." He pushed him into the semi in front of the pickup. A terrible way to die because a trucker was "tired"

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,839
    'tired' is not directly related to gas mileage. my experience is that ohio is the slowest state i have driven in due to the traffic enforcement measures.
    i spent plenty of time today @20 over, but that was running with the pack.
    i wasn't a front runner, but i was ok with it.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    In a 20 over pack, you're way better off in the middle of it... leaders and trailers get nailed!

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    leaders and trailers get nailed!

    I have never seen a leader get nailed. Its always been the back of the pack that gets it.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    If a popular car were found to get the best mileage at say 82 MPH would that then become the speed limit for that make/model?

    Sorry, folks I went thru that 55 garbage and got ticketed (70 in a 55) till I made SR-22.
    It's expensive, stupid and saves nothing except insurance companies. Follow the money, guys. Senator Warner must have bought his family some State Farm stock.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    than just one speeding ticket. The possibilities range from DUI to No Insurance. :sick:
This discussion has been closed.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.