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Comments
Yes, but gas mileage is much worse at 15 than 55. This issue is not addressed by a 55 SL. This is the reason for a 55SL would have very little contribution to lowering US gas dependancy.
>Saving money personally is not my motivation, I made a decision to do my part.
Many people do it because of gas prices. High gas prices did much more in having people save gas, whereas the 20-year 55 SL failed miserably.
>but at least be honest enough to admit you are too selfish to sacrifice 5 minutes
1) Depends where you put the threshold. I assume that 5 minutes means your trip is a commute trip. If you commute 200 times a year, that makes 16 hours more spent behind the wheel. That is starting to make a difference.
2) Let us imagine you could do this trip by electric bike or electric mass transit. It would not be 20% but 80% less equivalent oil burned. A much stronger good for the country. Would you commit into it? And if there is no such mass transit, would you lobby for it ?
3) Some people are car-pooling. Even if those cars did 80 mph to make up for the potential lost time of car pooling, the balance would still remain overwhelming positive
Did you really do the best for your country?
Unless you walk/run/cycle for 100% of your transports, I guess you didn't.
And even if I did those myself, I would not call people choosing to go 80 selfish.
A 8 USD/ Gallon is the key for conservation. No need to enact an inefficient and frustrating 55 SL limit. Still much cheaper than in Europe anyway.
I don't know such thing. There is certainly too much bureaucracy, but I would never make your claim mine.
>Seeing the damage already done to western manufacturing and wage structures by greedy business entities that will exploit a system nearly devoid of social and environmental responsibility
It looks like I saw it in earlier times for Japan or Taiwan.
>And also noticing the ever-present militarism, barbaric actions at home, and threats to neighbors
Look likes US is putting quite a lot of money in the military too and is waging wars on two foreign theaters. I won't discuss whether it is for the good cause or not,
I rather see the huge debt incurred by these operations as a more short term threat to US, compromising the country's ability to finance its R&D and infrastructure change to really become less oil dependant.
That's .18% of a year? Not much. Perhaps spending that leisurely driving time contemplating things to be done at work would be more beneficial than the 5 minutes per day following the speed limits. It's better than trying to speed and weave in and out to keep up the 75 mph commute and having to be more alert to other drivers and what they're doing.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's not folks in their 32 mpg at 65 full-sized cars doing the speeding; the majority are the vehicles already getting 20-24 driven ideally at 55. Who knows what they're averaging at their high speed gunning it to get around the guy in the left lane only doing 76 tactics.
My thinking is that if a 55 limit were in place, everyone will be driving 65 thinking the police will give 10 mph over the limit. That would save lots of fuel if only the large, unthinking consumers in their large SUVs, pickups, and vans could slow down.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Detroit would actually have to believe that first, and so far there is no evidence that anyone there does.
LOL - lets see how you rationalize here. I made a decision to drive 7 miles per week round trip to and from work. Using your logic you should make every effort to match what I do - benefits to society as a whole and all.
I don't take the freeway, and don't get above 40.
So to sort of quote you - how do your rationalize your waste? Noby buys it if you want to dirve in excess of 7 miles a week I can't stop you, but at least be honest enough to admit your are too selfish to sacrifice to benefits society as a whole. :shades:
One quick question for you - My neighbor drives a new Honda Civic 35 miles each way, other neighbor drives an SUV about 5 miles each way. Which neighbor is the bad guy? :confuse:
- You would call my SUV driving neighbor unthinking...I would call the SUV owner the one with the smaller carbon footprint...
Why? Are refineries some magic artifact that no one knows how to make? Is oil some arcane substance that is given to us by G-d in a fixed amount each day?
No. We can drill for more oil... and build more refineries to increase our production of gasoline. By doing so, we can reduce the price of gasoline. So, when that doesn't happen, we have the right to complain.
Furthermore, you can hypermile all you want, no one is stopping you. So, why do you demand the right to force others to do *YOUR* bidding?
What are you, some tin-pot dictator wanna-be? I bet you'd find it a great idea if we implanted mind-control devices into every person in America... and programmed them all to find a 55-mph speed limit to be a good idea.
---
And that's the essence of the 55-mph national speed limit idea. That some know better than the drooling masses... and will force you to do their bidding, for your own good. For you stupid masses are, by definition, too stupid to think for yourselves.
:mad:
That is a perfect example of the "What I think should count, because I'm better than you." ideology. You think that the beliefs of others are wrong.
Now we're back to the accusatory mode to try to mock good ideas. Actually slowing some people down to fuel-saving speeds will save gas and save lives. Driving more gently might save stress on the driver. Some seem to be really stressed out weaving in and out through traffic trying to maintain a speed above the nominal speed.
Good idea? In *whose* mind is that a good idea? In *YOUR* mind it's a good idea. You automatically disregard anyone disagreeing with you as wrong. And the upshot is that you believe that your ideas are better than those of others.
But to others, your idea is revoltingly horrible.
Really?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
But I also know that if the rest of society would slow down we would all benefit from lower prices at the pump, less imported oil, less greeenhouse emissions, etc.
And so, you believe that you should be allowed to force the entirety of America to do your bidding??? All because you believe that your idea is better than the rest... according to your opinion???
Who do you think you are?
I think you need to have a duck glued to your forehead... should I get the right to decide that about you?
:mad:
Well, I think its a 'no-brainer' that you need a duck glued on your forehead. It'll keep you from hurting your forehead if you trip and fall on it.
See, it's for your own good!
If you recall the new trucking laws giving truckers 11 hours of driving times a day, there's a wrinkle in there that a reduced speed limit could affect.
"A federal rule gives truckers 11 hours of driving time a day, but once he starts his engine for the first time, he must shut her down no more than 14 hours later.
If Congress heeds the recent suggestion of a Republican senator, meeting his daily deadlines could grow more difficult, he said."
Can’t drive 55? Don’t be so sure (St. Joe News)
It's for your protection, of course.
(The real point of the duck idea is to point out how ridiculous it is to base a law governing the actions of millions on the belief that one person's opinion is better than another. As we are all created equal, my opinion on ducks is just as good a reason for a law as another's view on bringing back the 55-mph national speed limit. It's all opinion.)
[I really brought this topic back to life, didn't I?]
:P
So they can try lower the speed limit, but in many areas it won't do much good because people will still go faster. Maybe not as fast, but you better believe that people will be going faster than 55...
Also, I find it interesting how Europe has higher gas prices, but they have higher speed limits than we do. They recently "lowered" the speed on a section of the autobahn to 75 mph and it was done for many of the same reasons they want to do it here: environmental protection, traffic safety, etc.
autobahn speed limit
I find it interesting that their cars burn less fuel at 75, while here in America the logic is 55 is the more optimum number. There's something wrong with this picture. It says to me American cars are still behind if they burn less fuel at 55 while the German cars are designed to run better 20 mph faster.
I don't really think it's that cut & dry, but I don't believe for 1 minute that every single car made runs more efficietly at 55 mph.
The article also goes on to say:
German highways often have speed limits for noise reduction, where traffic is heavy, or at junctions. Currently, a little over half of German highways have no speed limits around Germany.
So again, their gas prices are much higher there than here, yet they still have the option of zooming along as they please in many areas. Yet here they want to limit our speeds even more? I don't understand.
It's never been about safety or saving fuel... it's about control. Forcing others to do your bidding.
Taiwan and Japan have/had a minuscule population compared to China, and didn't nearly tread in the areas of social injustice and environmental crimes as China.
The US wars are creating a price that will be paid for generations. But that's a deflection from the crimes and motivations of China, which is indeed a danger to the west, and those who wish for the west to die in the grand scheme of globalization are enabling it.
The debt is as you say a short term disaster. China will be a longterm issue.
The lack of credible arguments for such a backwards speed limit really tells the story.
The speed limit is the question here. What are the speeds and driving style? I can show you hondaphiles zoom-zooming lowering the gas mileage their 4-cylinder would have gotten greatly. So it's driving style.
Carbon footprint is off topic, unless we want to discuss China and India's pollution and overusage of resources. Great amounts of carbon are coming from underground coal mine fires in China.
But I'm talking speed and speed limits that need to be set to rein in the free spirit of thoughtless consumers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Exactly right. And in my post I suggested that with a 55 limit people will be driving 65.
Some here seem to think that driving licenses are a right rather than a privilege granted by the states.
The logic seems to be that lowering the speed to a more efficient speed to effect overall fuel use reduction is "controlling" and other adjectives along with imposing an unreasonable limit on speed. However the 65 and 70 mph limits currently in place aren't "outrageous" and too low and "controlling" like the 55 would be. So speed limits are bad if they're ones that you're not used to, but speed limits are good if they're the ones you currently have in place? I don't understand how one speed limt is bad and another is good; how one is unconstitutional and the other is constitutional.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
For India I don't know. For China I live in the country so I can taste the "miracle". There is no miracle for me. There is hard work and the will to improve.
>and $10 a gallon would soon be the standard.
It is already in Europe. I don't think it will be either in China or the US, unless oil barrel shoots past the 300 USD mark.
>Solar. Fuel cell and Shale are the buzz words in the US
You are right, they are the buzz words. For real word mass implementation, we still need to wait. Those technologies are not mature yet.
>Sorry, you're busted vchiu.
Thanks for your compassion.
But, look, there is no doubt that a better public transport system would be a far better solution. I know so from experience at university campuses......when there is a bus to take students to and from class, most don't bother to drive to class at all! If you have so much intergrity, lobby for good public transport.
[No, you won't because you enjoy the comfort of your car too much and probably wouldn't want to mingle with "riff-raff" on a bus or train.....and you think I'm selfish......]
No, cars of today don't get 70+ mpg. But that's partly (actually, largely) due to cheap gasoline (until recently) and manufacturers focusing on size and performance instead of fuel economy, presumably to satisfy the wants of consumers. It's not because of a lack of potential in developing more economical cars!
As long as I know there are better solutions, I'm not going to "sacrifice" the enjoyment of driving at 70 - 80 mph. No way!
That pretty much says it all! :confuse: :sick:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I respect your opinion if it stays this way. If you have the power to enact a 55 SL and that you did so, it means you would decide that it is not much in my stead. Hopefully, it is not the case, yet.
>Perhaps spending that leisurely driving time contemplating things to be done at work would be more beneficial than the 5 minutes per day following the speed limits
>It's better than trying to speed and ...... .......... having to be more alert to other drivers and what they're doing.
You suggest that the driver should distract him/herself from solely concentrating on driving and caring about other drivers. That is the reason why fatalities are so many on US Roads. Of course, I strongly condemn such an attitude.
With a 55 SL, I am sure people will want to do anything but driving when behind the wheel.
I don't remember a single context where treating someone like a child, humiliating him or her with ultra-restrictive rules, withdrawing any freedom, responsibility or autonomy resulted in a positive behaviour.
It was more like the restricted person behaved like a child or rebelled or did something bad afterwards.
On the contrary, when given responsibility, enpowerment, trust and a latitude for decision making, even the tiniest brain sparkles back to life and wisdom.
We can dumb down the driver to a 55 mph SL. We should not expect much activity from the encephalogram, which is really bad news for safety on the road.
"I am sorry, I ran over your child, but I am not responsible : I was going the speed limit"
The over-controlling nanny state is the reason for the upcoming demographic disaster in Europe, it has ingrained a mentality in more than a generation of people, a mentality of false guilt and submission. These are not a way to survive. And even they have more realistic speed limits than on this side of the globe. If this mentality overtakes North America, western civilization is doomed.
"but I am not responsible : I was going the speed limit"
That will sum up millions of motorists. As long as they follow that law - and in neocon mentality following a law is they key goal no matter how idiotic the law may be - they are golden.
Thank you for making the point that a national speed limit is...well...pointless!
But keep on tell us all what we should do.
Maybe it was veering off topic too much.
China has 50 to 75 mph SL on highways, which are strictly enforced. I found up to 21 cameras on a 80 miles highway stretch. it does not prevent the too many accidents occuring. Many trucks are crawling at 35 mph. The drivers must be sleeping soundly at those paces.
60000 deads every year for about a 1/3 of the US traffic.
Edit : yes was removed by host. Any further discussion through pm
Speed cameras are a ridiculous idea, all in the name of profit and favored by those who have control issues. That's one thing the US has been smart enough to avoid in most areas - and if they do become common in some kind of neocon Orwellian dream control state, I hope teams of snipers come out at night and remove them. Maybe 55mph speed cameras could be the straw that breaks the camel's back...
Drive the speed you, personally, can handle.
And leave others to make that decision, themselves.
If they die because they misjudged their capabilities - GOOD. Thinning out the idiots that drive on the road... is a good thing, in my opinion.
Maybe I should make my opinion the law?
While this darwinian vision may look appealing, the reality of accidents is that they often involve other vehicules/people.
A cousin of mine was a rear passenger of a car driven by a brainless brat. The Brat hit a pole which fell on the car. Brat survived but my cousin died. He was 26 and engaged. I remember how my uncle and aunt looked when I visited them to cheer up. I don't want to experience this again.
Around the local malls, I just poked with ttraffic.
On local two-lane lightly traveled roads, 50 felt about right, though the limit was 45 and some cars tended to tail gate me, until we got to a dotted line, then they zoomed by.
In my area, we use interstates for most local driving. Limit is 65. On weekends, traffic travels at about 75. I found that 55 was way too slow even for the right lane, which is usually conceded to trucks that have problems with the hilly terrain. A drive from central CT to Mass was excruciating at 55, even the car seemed bored silly. The missus threatened to play her sappy CDs if I didn't speed up. She then volunteered to drive on the way back, observing that she had work to do and needed to get home to do it. She ran with right- and center-lane traffic.
My conclusions:
The mpg in my 4 cyl sedan did not improve over any other weekend. In fact it was a little worse, possibly because the car didn't spend as much time in overdrive.
Drivers have voted with their right feet on the traveling speed they're comfy with. It most definitely is not 55. In my neck of the woods, it's between 70 and 75, though this won't entitle you to monopolize the left lane.
Driving a European sports sedan at 55 mph on an open highway is enough to make Jesus weep.
All I am advocating is that people voluntarily slow down a little bit for the good of all.
I am not suggesting that you move closer to work, I am not suggesting that you buy a smaller car. These things are not financially possible for most, and there are many valid reasons for people living in the suburbs or owning an SUV.
All I have stated in any of my posts is that we all make a small sacrifice of 5 minutes a day in our commutes (if you use use mass transit or bike great). Most people still drive their own car to work, and everyone would benefit from lower prices at the pump if we would all decide to drive 55 instead of 75.
I would suggest that people still enjoy their lives with their leisure activities as they always have, I don't support any infringement on that.
Our daily commutes, however, are NOT part of that. We all must get to work everyday, spend an extra 5 minutes doing it and everyone will be better off.
I have conducted a similar "experiment" in my car, my fuel economy has gone from 35 MPG to 43 MPG by slowing down from 75-80 to 55-65 on the freeway.
Maybe some drivers ed would be beneficial for you.
If you can convince people to drive slower *WITHOUT* resorting to force, intimidation, or law... then that's great.
The complaints you make sound like someone addicted to nicotine trying to quit smoking and suggesting that smoking is good for you because it doesn't seem right psychologically when you're without the drug..
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So obviously you concluded that a vehicle is a vehicle is a vehicle no matter what its weight, gearing or aerodynamics? Just like a jungle cat - lion, tiger, leopard, jaguar, panther, lynx - all have the same running abilities? You're a genius!
Exactly. A law which the majority of people do not believe in or follow is bound to fail, and just weakens the moral authority of the other good laws.
I also don't see any compelling need to sacrifice so we'll save gas and prices will be lower.
First I see less traffic as a benefit, so if financially people cut back on their discretionary driving or carpool - Great!
Second if you wish to drive as much as you like, try making more money. There is plenty of gas in the world such that the U.S. doesn't need to conserve. There is 4X more. But you need to out-compete some other people in the world, or be more willing to use a higher % of your income for fuel.
That is exactly right. Watching people who think they have to drive 80 in their large vehicle or small vehicle try to dominate others who are following the speed limit by tailgating, lane changing, and zooming around shows how strong those psychological flaws can be.
Many of the same people have the view of the current speed laws, at 65, as somethiing they can violate as a way of flaunting their ability to control others and to control the speeds on the highway instead of following the societal speed limits.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The reports on supply demand usually talk about a slight deficiency in the amount of oil.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Globally. Why can't we in the U.S. buy more of it? Oil and gasoline go to whoever is willing to pay more. I have no problem with outbidding the people of China and India, and letting them stay on bicycles. Or similarly to be unbiased, I really can't control how many people choose not to drive here in the U.S. by not making enough money ( or reallocating what they spend their money on).
So again there is plenty of gasoline available to bring into the U.S. Offer $0.02 more per barrel for that tanker on its way to China, and it'll turn right around to the U.S.
Lane discipline improves safety, which you claim is a concern of yours. Driving at a ridiculously underposted limit does not. Nor does lowering speed limits to unrealistic levels on limited access highways.
You'll have more credibility if you learn the difference.
Incidentally, this past Sunday I drove on the Pennsylvania Turnpike for a good distance. On both trips I was surprised at the lack of traffic, particularly for a Sunday in July, which is usually when tourist season is in full swing around here. Also suprising was the lack of recreational vehicles on the highway. But traffic still flowed at the safe, comfortable speed of about 75 mph. All in all, it was a pleasant, safe drive at 75 mph.
Looks as though people are taking steps on their own to save gas, without Big Brother or the professional busybodies looking over their shoulder, which is as it should be. Amazingly enough, people are smart enough to figure out what works for them.