Fit vs. Rabbit

cmk

I'll be cross shopping the two, and I imagine that others will be too. Close in price, same type of vehicle.

What makes me lean towards the Fit:
Mileage, reliability, spiffy seats

What makes me lean towards the Rabbit:
Style, comfort, freedom of option choices, satisfying amount of standard features.

bodble2

Has anyone priced out the new VW Rabbit in Canada? Approx. $22.5K(including freight) for the 3-door, with 6-sp tiptronic, traction and electronic stability control, 150hp motor, 6 airbags, and the usual power accessories.

Another $1K for the 5-door. Yes, more expensive than the Fit, but a no-option Fit Sport is about $22.5K.

I think the VW is a very appealing alternative.

carfanatic007

Appealing alternative? Well, I've owned a VW GTI, 2001. It had the 1.8 liter Turbo. I was the worst car I ever owned. Had to take it in three times because of the Coils. The electronics had constant problems (Alarm, Doors, etc.) I WOULD NEVER buy another VW. Honda is light years ahead of VW in Build Quality and reliability.

johnnyvj

Have to agree, carfanatic. Every single person I know who has a VW is strongly considering ditching it due to reliability problems, and I know a few people who already have.

The complaints range from bad electrical systems to leaking oil in a big way after only 25k miles. With VWs in the past few years, it seems like "its always something".

No wonder they're emphasizing safety in their (shock effect) commercials... they sure can't talk about reliability. :sick:

bodble2

What I understand, though, is that VW reliability has a lot to do with where the car is built. Mexican-built is a no-no, but German-built is ok. Also, are your friends' VWs older models, or late-models?

marika

I am deeply disappointed in the engine choice for the Rabbit. The 22/30 EPA city/highway mpgs are unacceptable and will be even more so in the future as gas prices increase. Maybe at some point VW will offer a more economical and environmental engine but for now I will pass.

mwqa

My understanding is that the Rabbit is not VW's new entry level car, and that is more expensive than the Fit, too. So comparing the two may not be as useful.

I heard that VW's new entry level car will be called the City and be based on the Golf/Jetta mk4. Basically, it will be the recycling of an older model, at a reduced price. I've also heard that it may only be a 3-door and be available in August. I don't follow VW very closely, so can't point you to the original source.

Edit: Hmmm... was reading a bit more and it may just be us Canuks getting the City.

cmk

The main Rabbit thread has several sources stating base price of 14,990 for manual 2-door. I'd say that's close enough for comparison.

mwqa

Could be... cars in Canada are a bit more expensive, so we have a slightly different price points and different products.

Just for get I said anything.

cmk

No, it's a valid point, the Rabbits will be more expensive. Just not enough to (for me) make the comparison unnecessary.

Plus, you get a lot of options standard:
link

Another thing I like is the ease to add individual options:
link

I don't need to buy the embarrassing "ground effects kit" to get cruise control, like I would have to on the fit!?? I can get a sunroof? Awesome!

mwqa

I think the the Rabbit is made in Germany, too, which is also good news.

reddroverr

maybe, but there is a thread here with 95 posts comparing the Fit to the Accord..so I say, have at it.

The gas mileage and the price and reliability puts da wabbit out of my running.

johnnyvj

I'm just amazed anyone is still seriously considering VW... their reliability has really gone off a cliff in the past few years. Why is that? They used to be pretty good.

claudius753

I like the look of the Rabbit, and VW makes some nice interiors.

But I just find a 5 cylinder engine weird. Mileage is ok, but not stellar.

The Fit only has a 1.5 liter, compared to the VW's 2.5 liter, but it gets much better mileage, and because of the weight differences, it is probably as quick if not quicker in acceleration. I have read reports of the 5AT Fit doing naught to 60 in under 8.5 seconds, pretty good and plenty for me.

I'd love to get a 5 door VW GTI, but because of my returning to college and limited finances, the FIt is most likely "GO".

Really, a better match up with the Fit would be the VW Polo, but it isn't sold in the US. The Rabbit is sort of trying to match Fit and Civic. I really just can't get over that I5 engine.

carfanatic007

I am the previous owner of a 2001 VW GTI. While it did have a nice interior reliability was below par. I had to replace engine coils 3 times (AT VW Expense). I had alarm and electrical problems several times. As for the Fit AT doing 0-60 under 8.5 seconds? I don't know where you heard that but it is false. Car and Driver rates it at 10.4. Motor Week at 11.0 seconds. The 5 Speed MT is rated at 8.7 seconds (Car and Driver) and 9.3 seconds (Edmunds). That is with one person and taking it to Red line in each gear. I like the Fits interior quality. Especially the front gage cluster. It looks like it belongs on an Acura. The seats to me are comfortable, although I wish there was a center arm rest.

randydriver

I long for the days when VW made good cars....

dewaltdakota

The owners of VW (both the company, and the cars) probably do too...

nippononly

"The Fit only has a 1.5 liter, compared to the VW's 2.5 liter, but it gets much better mileage, and because of the weight differences, it is probably as quick if not quicker in acceleration."

Ummmm, the Rabbit will weigh 20% more than Fit and have almost 70% more torque, available at a lower RPM too. Also, almost 40% more power. I don't think there's any question which will be faster. :-)

The Rabbit will also have all the usual features at exactly the same price (in the 3-door) as Fit (a 5-door), except for alloy wheels. Unfortunately, yes, the Rabbit's gas mileage is terrible in the context of other cars in its class, and especially given that it's not even a 6-cylinder. The Rabbit, of course, will include VW's famous and wonderful Monsoon sound system at the $15.5K price point. Compare this to Fit's stereo, which while perfectly fine for a $15k car, is hardly inspiring.

carfanatic007

I didn't think the VW sounds system was so great. As a matter of fact, the stereo in my Fit Sport is outstanding!

johnnyvj

Ummmm, the Rabbit will weigh 20% more than Fit and have almost 70% more torque, available at a lower RPM too. Also, almost 40% more power. I don't think there's any question which will be faster.

The Rabbit will also have all the usual features at exactly the same price (in the 3-door) as Fit (a 5-door), except for alloy wheels. Unfortunately, yes, the Rabbit's gas mileage is terrible in the context of other cars in its class, and especially given that it's not even a 6-cylinder. The Rabbit, of course, will include VW's famous and wonderful Monsoon sound system at the $15.5K price point. Compare this to Fit's stereo, which while perfectly fine for a $15k car, is hardly inspiring.

None of which will matter if the Rabbit's reliability stinks. :lemon:

Which, given VW's record of the past few years, seems likely... sad to say.

nippononly

I am not here to disagree with you on principle, but I drove a Rabbit 4-door today, and I have to say it seems to be easily $2000 more car than the Fit. The engine is a rocket over 2500 rpm, and torquey even down at 1500 rpm. The alloys are a $400 option, making the car $18K even when priced back to back with the Fit Sport. Those are 16-inch rims though, to the Fit's 15-inchers.

The stereo is phenomenal, and it was the standard stereo (there is an optional stereo). It is a 10-speaker system with a lot of power and adjustments for midrange as well as bass and treble, not to mention individual dials for the most common controls, rather than a pushbutton system.

But uh-oh - what's this? Rated 22/30 EPA? The gas mileage will stink in comparison to the Fit. In the looks department, I give first prize to the Rabbit, but looks are very subjective. I like having a full-size spare (Rabbit yes, Fit no).

The clutch in the Rabbit is very deep, which I am not sure I would like. I continue eagerly to look for a dealer to actually have a Fit Sport manual in stock for me to test drive, so I have not drawn any conclusions yet. But the Fit has some strong competition in the Rabbit.

Oh, and as someone who has owned pretty much Toyota and Honda his whole life, I will say this: they make very good cars that are very reliable overall, but reliability is not everything. The Rabbit is a clear cut above in terms of interior and ride over the new Civic, for instance, at about the same price. Not to mention throttle response. I am getting a little tired of rational cars - maybe I am just at that age. Toyotas and Hondas are very rational and provide a strong value quotient, while VWs are less rational (less reliable statistically) but with more of a sensual quality (not to get too heavy here!) and emotional appeal.

moparbad

It may be trivial, however, it is interesting that both the Fit and Rabbit are only now available in US and both have been available in Europe for several years.
Both have different names in the US compared to Europe with Jazz and Golf the names on the other side of the pond.
Both are approaching their FMC (full model change).
Both are hatches that do not sell well in the US since ultimate utility is not appreciated here.
Both have been number #1 sellers outside of the US.

nippononly

Yes, isn't that funny?

In both cases, there is a strong case to be made that waiting two years to get the new model would serve the prospective buyer well.

With Fit, I think we can expect Honda to put i-VTEC in the next model, which will give it better midrange torque and probably improve fuel economy a bit at the same time.

VW, of course, has made some very public announcements about updating the Golf early to make it an even better handler next time around while making it lighter at the same time. And giving the engine direct injection, which should improve fuel economy a couple of points and bump up power at the same time.

There are a couple more things I like about the Rabbit vs the Fit - independent rear suspension (vs the Fit's torsion beam) and 4-wheel discs on the Rabbit (vs rear drums on the Fit). Plus, the Rabbit is PZEV, where the Fit is LEV.

jpmccormac

I really wanted to like the FIT but when I found it had no seat height adjustment and my wife couldn't see the front of the car, she nixed it. I love my '96 Golf 2slow and am waiting for the 2007 Rabbits to arrive later this summer because of the better color selection on the 2007s. Future reliability on the Rabbit is still up in the air, but at least the warranty is much better than the Honda's. I don't care about the mileage that much; I drive only about 5-6,000 miles a year. The six speed auto in the Rabbit sounds like it will be fairly economical. Time will tell...

reddroverr

Not to mention throttle response. I am getting a little tired of rational cars - maybe I am just at that age.

I am sure you can find a better midlife crisis car than a Rabbit.

hungarian83

"Both have been number #1 sellers outside of the US"

From what I have seen, Volkswagen has a better reputation "over the pond".
I have driven the SEAT Cordoba and the Skoda Fabia. Both nice cars made by Volkswagen. Of course, I think SEAT (Spanish) and Skoda (Czech) have higher ratings than Volkswagen in terms of reliability, which surprises me since they are all essentially rebadged Volkswagens.

"Both are hatches that do not sell well in the US since ultimate utility is not appreciated here."
Ironic that while Americans seem to not like hatchback cars, their prized minivans and SUVs are essentially just that...a hatchback! :confuse:

nippononly

The warranty is almost identical: 4/50 B2B. The VW gets an extra 10K miles powertrain only, but there isn't much in it. However, as you mention, the Golf/Rabbit has power seats which include lumbar and height adjustments - two more points for the VW IMO.

reddroverr: No, I'm not at midlife crisis time yet - believe me, when that time comes, there will be a Boxster with my name on it! :-)

I am just getting to the age where numbers and stats and the perfect transportation appliance don't quite satisfy enough any more - I want a little extra, and I might be willing to give up some of the vaunted reliability to get it. I am rarely successful at quashing car fever enough to keep a car past the 50-60K point anyway, so everything would be covered under warranty.

Certainly, buying a Honda or Toyota, I would expect to never have to repair it at all after the initial bugs of the first couple of weeks, invariably caused by inattention during the PDI. And getting the VW, I would go in with the idea that I might spend some time at the dealer's service department.

jpmccormac

I stand corrected. I just learned that Honda has extended their warranty on 2006 > models: "Model Year 2006 or newer, Honda has extended the new-car limited warranty powertrain coverage to 5 years/60,000 miles."

moparbad

Rabbit Review

But if you're looking for something even less expensive from VW, stay tuned for a product announcement in August. We don't yet know what this is, but it won't be called a Rabbit. :confuse:

johnnyvj

I fully understand where you're comin' from, and I too have tended to like VWs and their particular 'style' and driving dynamics.

The problem is, I simply do not have the time to baby and fuss over my car, nor take it into the shop every couple of months for that 'one more thing' that has gone wrong. Unfortunately, a lot of VWs tend to exhibit just this sort of track record, and the result is an angry, frustrated VW owner... a group I do not wish to join. :sick:

I'd definitely be taking a long, hard look at the Rabbit, if only VW would improve their reliability. As it stands, I simply cannot see myself in ANY VW car until they get their act together.

Sad to say, because I think their cars are quite entertaining to drive.

crimsona

That August announcement could be a Canadian only model (we like small cars?)

First time I've heard of it too though

jpmccormac

Re: That August announcement could be a Canadian only model (we like small cars?)

Rumor on the VW Vortex forum is that it MAY be the Polo.

carfanatic007

No! One of them big monster Infiniti SUV's with 340 HP, or a Porche yes, Rabbit?

dewaltdakota

I have to admit, the VW Rabbit commercial I saw was cute as all heck. They play on the fact that rabbits are known for multiplying. Two VW Rabbits (one black and one white) go into a tunnel, but when they come out, there's an additional two grey rabbits, plus one that has a mix of panels (black, grey and white). As the commercial progresses, there's more and more rabbits, until they reach gridlock, all while the "birds and the bees" song plays in the background.

If I didn't already have my Fit, I would at least have gone to take a look at the VW Rabbit... simply because the commercial made me laugh out loud.

MUCH better marketing than the Fit, if you ask me.

backy

And, the Rabbits have hopped into my local dealers. I might take one for a spin if I have time this weekend.

carfanatic007

Not on "cute" commercials. Honda rules over VW.

cmk

Even though I'd love to have the Honda's mileage and reliability, I test drove the Rabbit last week and loved it. The driving experience was 500% better than the Fit's. the feel of the handling, power, comfort, convenience, features, and options, hands down the Rabbit is the winner.

Too bad I probably won't buy it because I fear the reliability. Of course the experience has made me dissatisfied with the Fit too, so... heh. I guess I'm sticking with my current car.

carfanatic007

I agree that the Rabbit drives better and handles better. It has a rear stabilizer bar and a better rear suspension. For the money you get more without a doubt. BUT, as a three time former VW owner you have to CONVINCE me that VW has cleaned up there reliability. I have owned a 1987 VW GTI, 1998 VW GTI VR6 and a 2001 VW GTI. All were initially great cars. However, as time (a few months) went on I had numerous mechanical/electrical problems. As you can see, I obviously gave them three chances, I wanted to like VW, but the 2001 experience (replaced coils three times, power locks broke, alarm broke, etc). I swore off VW. If this new model can do a couple of years without a big black dot next to it in Consumer Reports, I may give them another chance!

jpmccormac

I'm not apologizing for VWs past reliability problems but things seem to be improving. In the latest ratings by JD Powers, VW was rated as "the most improved nameplate." Their ranking jumped from 24th to 14th, quite an improvement. Details here: http://tinylink.com/?W3unZOeTKe

I just wish the Rabbit had a more fuel efficient engine.

PS. My '96 Golf has been great in terms of reliability and still rides and handles wonderfully.

nippononly

that study you linked doesn't measure reliability, it measures how much people love their new cars after 90 days.

johnnyvj

Yep. And reliability problems usually take longer to set in than 90 days.

That survey may have held some weight if had been done after say 3-5 years of ownership...

irfanm

You can't get a sunroof on the 2 door( Rabbit )!?! Please correct me if i'm wrong . .

I too am confused in a Fit vs. Rabbit situation. . . I love the Fit's paddle shift in the sport trim and its honda badge . . . but VW's have always been nice too and . . the Rabbit . . just is so damn appealing . . .and why have a paddle shift if its gonna take you forever to get to 60 .. can anyone give me a 0-60 on the Rabbit ?

I was at the New York Intl. Auto Show this year and spoke to someone at Honda and they told me they won't have sunroofs in the fit til another year . . I can't wait that long . . if the sunroof can be in a 2 door Rabbit . . i'm going with that one . . I've always loved the Golf

backy

A factory glass sunroof is available only on the 4-door Rabbit. Have you considered aftermarket?

irfanm

I was thinking about that .. but doesn't that void the warranty?

backy

Which warranty? The warranty on the roof panel?

You could ask your local VW dealer or VW customer service about that.

gogirlgo

I've had my 4 door Silver Rabbit for two weeks and driven 500 miles. My needs in a car of this class where safety, fun to drive, quiet interior, height adjustable seats, good visibility, solid feel. I found this in the Rabbit. I did not drive the Fit so I am not going to comment on making a comparison. This is my 4th VW and my experience in the reliability department has been positive so I did not hesitate to buy VW. I can understand that getting a car that is unreliable would turn a person off from buying another one. I have a friend that owns a VW Bug and had no problems, another had a Jetta that had lots of electrical problems. Guess who will not buy another VW...at least not for a while.

irfanm

yeah .. i'm scared of vw's cause of electrical problems mainly because I know they can have them and I remm the tourag had a big recall cause of it . . the odometer was showing wrong! . . but I still would buy a rabbit . because w/e MIGHT happen if it even does . . of course everything will be taken care of at volksagen's expense . ..

_wraith_

Customer Service Index:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006119
Initial Quality:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006082
:surprise:

I still want to test drive a Rabbit, but it looks like I might need a rabbit's foot before trying to buy one.

shrinermonkey

I have a 2001 VW Passat Wagon (German built, not Mexican) and I am currently shopping to replace it because of poor reliability and horrible dealer service. The Fit is at the top of my list right now along with the Matrix/Vibe twins. It is probably going to come down to the test drives and what kind of deal I can get because I think all 3 will satisfy my requirements. However all 3 of these cars a going to be a big drop in classiness and driveability compared to my Passat and it will take some getting used to.

I don't think I will ever own another VW unless it is a classic squareback or something. They have a LONG way to go te get their quality up to snuff.

gagrice

I am just getting to the age where numbers and stats and the perfect transportation appliance don't quite satisfy enough any more -

I hear you. I would not trade the driving experience I had for 13 months in my 2005 Passat for anything that Honda has to offer. Well except the S2000. I had it into the dealer twice in 13 months. First the audio volume control did not work from the get go. Drew VW in La Mesa CA, were so gracious to deal with. Gave me a loaner overnight while they installed a new steering wheel. Second time was for 5k mile oil change, 50 bucks using the high priced VW TDI synthetic oil. So my experience says that all these stories about reliability are made up by folks working for Toyota and Honda. They know they cannot compete on any level except MPG so they spread stories about VW reliability.

I bought the Passat expecting things to go bad. Just did not happen in 13 months and 8300 miles. And sold it for $3000 more than I paid new. Try that with any Honda.

gagrice

You must have hit a real low in VW history. The new ones from at least 2005 on are great. The cars you are contemplating are not even close to the VW for handling, performance or safety. If your dealer was lousy they must have gotten trained at a San Diego Toyota or Honda dealer.