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Comments
With regards to the TSB, I to have heard that some coupes have had the problem. It must have not been enough for Honda to release to TSB. I find this odd to be honest. Honda is not at their finest lately.
The reason why the dealership does not want to touch your car is because they know it's been hit. This gives them an excuse not to have to fix your car because REPAIRS COST MONEY, warranty work or not & LABOR COST AS WELL. The accident gives them the perfect excuse to lay blame, not on faulty parts but the accident. Even if the parts were faulty, there is no way to prove it now, one way or another.
I have learned that WARRANTY does not always mean what we think it means. We always think it's unconditional. We really know it's very conditional and STEALERSHIPS no many ways to get out warranty work. This is why they always turn down cars that have been modified even if the part was a failure due to being faulty. It's just an excuse and a viable one, at least to them.
Insurance companies are powerfull. If you feel comfortable, let them do the work for you but keep on their butts for info.
Eventhough I am like you and like to KNOW WHY, most times we don't ever get the WHY and when we do, most times it's BS so you don't sue the manufacturer over something like this. The truth will be very hard to come by at this point, SO DON'T FOCUS ON THE WHY, focus on getting your car back and moving onto more important things and bigger and better things.
I hope all gets resolved. Take this from someone who went through their own nightmare with a car and and accident.
Sigh! How times have changed.
However, there is no claim whatsoever that I modified the car or did anything to void my warranty. The allegation is that the body shop didn't repair the car properly over five months ago. So this isn't a loophole--it's just "bounceback", if you will.
My big concern, though, is that by letting the body shop do the work, they're giving themselves an opportunity to claim that the warranty on the engine is now voided.
That's the best reason for getting a Honda rep involved in the mix.
Yep, I think I've convinced myself. I'll be on the phone first thing in the morning--both to Honda and also to let my insurance adjuster and the body shop know what I'm doing.
I have to protect my warranty, and not let some sleezy service manager cheat me out of what I paid for.
Of course, I'll also be talking to the body shop telling them I want to know when they'll be taking the car apart and that I'll need to document it for Honda's purposes.
I can't wait to see the allegedly damaged parts. Are they damaged? And, more importantly, is there evidence that they were damaged prior to the engine mount failure?
All of that will help the insurance company point the finger at the proper party. And they definitely plan to.
Maybe that's the most important part--that the insurance company doesn't let anyone get away with anything. They're my best ally at this point.
Can I let it go entirely? It's not in my nature to drop it without trying to get a few more answers. I spent too many years litigating. Will I take it upon myself to sue? No. Not worth it on so many levels.
But mine became much more complicated when, for whatever reason, the engine moved about 4 inches forward in the engine compartment. It's a major complication, but not my problem. It either happened because of the failure or because of unrepaired wreck damage. The complication is when Honda started passing the buck.
I really feel that, at this point, I need to document that Honda refused to do any repairs on the car. The more I think about it, the madder I get. I mean, there was money to be made there if, for example, Honda said, "We can fix it, but it's gonna cost. You might want to talk to your insurance company, because it's related to the prior wreck." The Honda dealer could have had the insurance repair if it had played its cards right. Instead, it flat out refused to work on the car.
The refusal worries me for its implications in the future. Is it always this difficult to get warranty work done on your Honda? Is this attitude why I haven't heard a word about the Service Bulletins that I've learned about in the last two days on this board and another one? And, most importantly, are they going to use this incident to try to void my warranty?
So, I'll continue to document--my camera and I are headed to the body shop today to take pictures of the engine and my experiences over the past two days are already being documented. I'll call Honda and get a rep out to look at the car if they'll send one. If not, then I'll get the rep to talk to the body shop and my insurance adjuster. And then we'll save the parts that are being removed. Like I said earlier, I just can't let this go yet. I'll reach that point later, but not until my insurance company has had a chance to hold Honda accountable.
And do you want to know the worst part? I really miss my car! I've driven a 2006 Toyota Forerunner and a 2007 Saturn Ion now, and neither holds a candle to my Civic. For everyone who is complaining about the quality of your Civic, yes, our cars may have problems (my problems were either self inflicted--one wreck was my fault--or inflicted by someone else--a jerk hit my car--or a warranty problem--the questionable motor mount), but there is a lot worse baseline quality out there. Neither of the two vehicles I've driven has the feel of the Civic, or the interior touches that our cars have. Right down to the cup holders, Honda engineers stand head and shoulders above the others.
My husband wants to either trade my Civic on a Saturn Vue (maybe a Green Line) or add a Vue, but I'll have a hard time giving up Honda, notwithstanding this service experience.
You will take a very big hit on it's value not only because the accident but the first year, the car depreciates the most and then levels off.
I went to trade my 06 LX Sedan. The car is perfect in and out, not a ding or damage to be found. I even clean my engine bay every few months.
I paid $17,200 (at the time, it was a great price) and just a week ago went to trade for a 07 scooby impreza "I" wagon (I had an impreza wagon in the past, loved it) and 3 dealerships appraised my car at $14,000. This is $3200 loss in the first year. They even remarked at how low the mileage was at 10.200 (the car should have 14,000 miles by now, it just reached one year old).
You will have a ton of negative equity (unless you paid cash for your car) and most banks finance only so much negative equity, normally $2000-$3000 unless they play the "hide the negative equity game"
I wanted to trade mine because I felt for the money, the problems I was having would only get worse based on people who have more mileage with shocks going, struts going, engines leaking oil, etc etc.
I am going to hold onto it for a year or so longer and just take care of it so I can pay it down more.
At the time, they told me they found nothing wrong. But because the problem magically disappeared after that visit, I get the feeling they knew exactly what to "tweak" to make it go away. Maybe there is a secret fix and if you complain, they do it, thereby avoiding a recall? Who knows?
Of course, the starting problems may yet resurface (hope not!), but it's been five weeks so far of perfect starts since the dealer visit so I'm hoping they did something that made the problem disappear.
So, the salesman did not react but promised to check it out ASAP.
Therefore, two things come to mind: this forum talks about the problems experienced by this model the first year it came out and someone mentioned that a car with less than 2 miles was never tested by the dealer to make sure the car was OK.
First lesson, is make sure you test drive the car and put it through its paces. Next, a car with less than two miles was driven by no one to see if it was OK or not. Lastly, Honda may still be having problems even though the car has been in production since Sept 2005 (?).
I personally do not want that car and wrote down the VIN in case they tried to sell it me anywhere, as I liked the color and it was the only one between the 3 dealers I am working with.
Question: anybody has any ideas what the vibration could have been? The salesman kept saying tire air pressure was off. I thought no way, as I am one of those that checks the family fleet (4 cars!) every single darn week. Own an air compressor and I know what a low tire looks like. Hope some one has an answer. Have a great day folks!
10,000 miles later, the alignment (done 3 times in less than 1000 miles) seems to be holding and the motor mount was replaced and so was the belt for the longer belt to eleminate the 1400-1500 rpm lug bug problem.
With regards to your test drive, dealers rarely correct the tire pressure and almost all cars have 5-6 PSI higher than what the sticker says it should be. This can cause a very harsh ride and also can translate much more noise and vibration into the car. It's like driving on rocks. It can also cause unpredictable handling characteristics and make the car feel twitchy and all over the place.
Also, the car might have had a tire weight missing and thus maybe one of the tires were out of balance.
It does not mean the car was not good.
I always bring a tire gauge with me so if and when I purchase, I correct the pressures before I drive home so I know if something is really wrong or not.
I hope you find a car you like.
Thanks for the advice, I will use it. Wish you a good holiday.
With regards to my galaxy gray LX sedan, no one else had this color at the time so I took the chance.
So far, other than the things I mentioned, all else is well. I hope I don't develop the oil leaks others have and also I hope my shocks & struts hold up. Other have had them replaced with low mileage.
Good luck and happy holiday!
My question: any thoughts on a show room car versus one in the parking lot?
My thoughts are that the one inside has been protected from the environment better...any thoughts?
Thanks all & happy Easter!
#1 check how many miles on the car. I never buy a new car with over 10 or so miles. If the car has 20-30 miles, it most likely has been test driven a lot or been transferred from another dealership.
#2 these cars have been sat in alot and have been tinkered with by customers and salesman. This is not a big deal but again, I myself don't like this type of thing, does not mean anything bad though. Just my preference.
#3 the good thing is that the car most likely has been waxed well to make it look great in the show room. When they prep a car from the lot I think they normall do a sloppy job as they are rushed to deliver the car to you so you take it the same day.
#4 if you are going to purchase this car, check all fluids including oil & other vitals fluids. This car most likely has been sitting a while in the showroom (ask how long) and if it's been months. Have them change the oil for you as a courtesy so you know the oil in the car is fresh. Oil should not sit for many months without the car being started.
Those are my views. Check the cover over carefully for scratches as people tend to lean on the car in the showroom.
Happy Easter!
Broke my cardinal rule of car buying by buying a 1st year model but so far have been lucky. Had the lug bug TSB performed eventhough it wasn't that noticeable. But since they agreed to do it, figured why not. Besides that, the car's been fine. Very happy with everything about it.
The Sandman
I have an '06 EX MT in Galaxy Gray, built in April '06, and i've had no problems at all with this car. My lowest MPG has been 34, due largely to snowy weather and winter mix fuel.
Thanks
How bad is the vibrating/rattling? If you bring it to the dealership, can you reproduce the problem while with a technician. If so, it's just proves there is a problem and they need to fix it.
You can always call the Honda Car line and insist on a higher level technician meet you at the dealership and or a regional manager with a field rep/tech.
I would get this documented as soon as possible and insist to whomever that they figure out the problem and repair it.
Nice car.
The Sandman
Today, American Honda phoned me to let me know that they had reviewed my complaint a second time, and looked at the web links that had been provided. Wayne (I'll hold his last name) explained to me that the data found on these websites is nothing more than "opinion" and that American Honda was not going to change its position. I asked who else I could talk to and he told me no one. This was the final decision. I told him that I wasn't satisfied because he had not sufficiently explained why Honda repairs some and not others. He told me that Honda had repaired the others out of "goodwill" to those customers. I told him he had just lost me as a customer.
Ironically, I used some photos and support material from this and other websites to illustrate how Honda owners are fixing the vibration/rattle that originates from the subwoofer, back speaker deck. The dealer took that info and instead of using paper towels to stuff into the openings, they used a foam material. Unfortunately, the support materials I sent regarding the condenser didn't fly with them.
So, now I will take the vehicle to an independent repair shop (the dealer wants $750 and the indie guy wants $500). Other than potential warranty issues, I will NEVER step foot on another Honda lot. This will be my first and only Honda, and I very much can't wait to trade it for something else.
Finally, I've ordered lemon magnets and I plan to drive it up and down the street in front of th dealer. I told Wayne that I'd really f- with them and I will. Yep, folks, I am ticked off... and truly hurt that Honda is not the company I thought it was.
You may have to do some searching to find who is the next person in the chain of command. You can also try a website called planetfeedback.com. It's a place where you can submit bad customer service for a host of different industries. From what I understand, companies do monitor this website.
Good luck.
The salesman was going to have their service manager check the cars and have one ready for me to drive again this weekend. If someone can put me at ease on this that would be great because I love everything about the car and have had an accord in the past that I was very happy with.
Seems like someone screwed up the PDI when the car came into the dealership.
The Sandman
My current 06 LX sedan, the pressures were 6 to 7 PSI high.
Many year ago I started bring a tire pressure gauge with me when I pick up my new cars so I can lower then before driving home. This helped me to make sure things were okay or not okay with the car.
Tire pressures are so overlooked when cars are on the lot and when they are delivered.
The Sandman
My car still pulls to the right despite the 3 alignments and dead balls accurate tire pressures.
It's not really that bad but if you let go of the wheel while coasting, it goes over to the next lane pretty quickly.
Since I am exhibiting mostly normal tire wear, I have learned to live with it.
Keep the rear drum brakes in adjustment if you have an LX or DX and it keeps the cable lubricated!
"If your brakes break, they won't brake and your car will break."
How you apply the parking brake on a hill is important. Always apply it first, then let off the foot brake pedal for second to place the load on the parking brake, then shift into park.
If you shift to park 1st, all the strain of the car on the hill will be held by the relatively small parking pawl inside the transmission. This can make it difficult to move out of park.
I find this very strange because when my 2002 Civic EX coupe had the failed struts at 3 years and again a year later with the timing belt tensioner/water pump problem there was no question they were to be repaired by the dealership. I feel Honda knew this was coming because the 2002 was the second year of that model redo. I'm getting ready to buy a 2007 Civic EX coupe and I'm hoping that if this model has been out there since Sept. 2005 that this 2007 will not have any of the 2006 problems. If it does, this will be my last Honda as my 5 year old 1982 Accord had a failed rack and pinion steering seal. Cost me almost $1,000 to replace.
It all depends on the dealerships in your area.
On Long Island, the dealerships (service departments) are far from friendly for the most part (I am sure there are a few good ones) and you really have to make a stink to get something fixed that they think is fine when you know it's not. I took me 4-5 visits and a call to Honda to get my mount replaced and the serpetine belt replaced (lug bug noise). I also have to bring down copies of the service bulletings which they said they never saw. I know their system has these TSB's cause mine problems were quite a while after honda issued the TSB's.
Either way, buy your car, enjoy it and most likely, some or all of the problems have been resolved.
If you have any doubts, buy something else. Nothing worse than buying a new car and already feeling worried about things.
This is my first car I ever purchased, because I was never able to have my parents give me a car, I'm a 19 female and I think I'm being taken advantage of.
Ok.... I have 30,000 miles of my 2006 Honda Civic and they are already telling me my rotors have to replaced along with my brake pads. I understand that around 30,000 miles your brakes need to be change, I know that and I know how to do that. But my rotors, I didn't think that was right. Someone please tell me if this is correct or not. I need help before I pay someone to do this for me.
Thanks!
~Chrissy
Honda rotors are known to warp very quickly. I have had many hondas and was advised by a long time mechanic that they tend to be thinner than other makes so heat warps them quicker.
Most likely, you would need a rotor resurface. If your steering wheel does not shake left to right while braking, you rotors are not warped. Normally when replacing disc pads, most places do a resurface of the lining so that the new brakes don't wear prematurely.
I hope this helps.
You'd have to replace the rotors under 2 conditions, typically. If you let the disc pads wear down to the point where you had metal to metal contact (worn out pad grinds against rotor). You hear this by the grinding noise when applying brakes, and visually you can inspect the rotors to see if they are scored. Be sure to look on both sides of each rotor.
The second reason is if the rotors have warped. You notice this when you are applying the brakes, and you feel a pulsation in the brake pedal. This warping happens with heavy braking where the rotors get very hot.
I have heard of a number of situations where companies are just automatically replacing both, so I don't think it is necessarily a case of somone wanting to take advantage of you.
You might be able to have rotors re-surfaced, where they cut off some of the metal using a lathe to make it smooth and true. However, since the rotors don't cost all that much, it is usually just easier to replace them.
At 30K I would expect to replace the front pads, nothing would normally be needed on the rears as they do minimally work stopping the vehicle. You would not normally need front rotors, unless you have experienced the grinding or warping.
Good luck
Chrissy, I encourage you by all means to take the advice you've already been given and get a second opinion.
Many places now just replace the rotors rather than bother with turning them, since in their case, time is money. Since I do my own brake work, I typically have them turned. It's more bother and takes a bit longer, but i do it anyway.....
It is rare that a rotor needs to be replaced, if done properly turning them (actually done on a lathe) will extend their life for a very long time.
However, if you let the pads wear too far, you WILL damage the rotors and they will need to be replaced. So replacing the pads whenever you start hearing the squeal is very important (and cost effective!)
My 97 camry has 201,000+, my 93 had 198,000+ and I've only replaced the rotors once on each. They had been turned so many times they were past the minimum allowable thickness. On average, every other pad replacement got the rotors turned, but only if warped or badly glazed.
You should definitely get a second or third opinion.
For the record 95 K miles on original pads isn't typical nor should your mechanics have had to "bug" you about replacement. Many states including mine have annual mechanical inspections and when the pads/shoes get within a certain point they MUST be replaced. But nonetheless I don't scrimp on things like brakes (cost: about $40 +/- for new pads) and mine last about 35K miles or so.
I have realized from the many different hondas I have had, an 86 LXi accord, 86 CIVIC SI 1500, 2006 LX, it's best to use OEM pads or a high quality replacement.
If you don't specify this when going to a small shop or one of those tire centers, they will use a cheap replacement and your car will not only stop worse but the pads will wear quicker.
Honda's OEM pads are really good from my experience.
My brakes worked perfectly fine for the duration of the 95,000 miles (no noises or other weird symptoms.) I replaced the pads when they needed to be replaced.
That Civic was virtually maintenance free, which is why I decided to buy the '07 model. Hope it will be as great as my previous car.