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2017 Toyota Sienna Alignment issues: Are aftermarket camber bolts necessary?

JL402Sienna17JL402Sienna17 Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1
edited December 2018 in Toyota
I recently went to a Firestone Tires to get an alignment check. After getting the initial alignment, I noticed that some of the numbers were still not within factory specs (FR camber, RR Toe). When I brought my van back to the shop, the technician mentioned that there was no factory adjustment for the rear. Is this true?

Also, is front camber adjustable OEM? Or do I need to install front camber bolts? Anyone else experience this?

Comments

  • capriracercapriracer Somewhere in the USPosts: 877
    First, there should be no excuse for a vehicle leaving the alignment shop out of spec - or at least, not informing the owner that the vehicle can not be put back into spec and giving them the option of extra cost aftermarket kits to get it back into alignment. Please note: I am of the opinion that EVERY vehicle can be brought back into spec - except for those that have crash damage - and even then …..!

    I suggest you take it somewhere else, one that will state up front that it might be necessary to install a camber kit and how much that would cost.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,994
    edited December 2018
    First is this all wheel drive, or just front wheel drive?

    I recently went to a Firestone Tires to get an alignment check. After getting the initial alignment, I noticed that some of the numbers were still not within factory specs (FR camber, RR Toe).

    Please post the alignment measurements and the specifications in the format below.

    Front ------------ ----- LF________ RF Spec
    Caster _____________|_____________
    Camber ____________|_____________
    Toe _______________|_____________
    SAI_______________|______________
    Included Angle______|_____________
    Other??

    Rear------------------ LR _________ RR
    Camber _______________|___________
    Toe __________________|____________
    Thrust Angle ____________|___________
    Other??


    When I brought my van back to the shop, the technician mentioned that there was no factory adjustment for the rear. Is this true?

    It is true. There is no factory adjustment. Does the rear suspension look like a trailing arm that supports both rear wheels, or is this independent suspension? If it is the full arm, then once aftermarket suppliers design and make them the alignment will be adjusted with shims that go behind the hub bearings. If this is independent, the only thing service information states is that if it's out of specification, inspection to identify a damaged part is required and the tech is just supposed to replace the damaged part(s).


    Also, is front camber adjustable OEM? Or do I need to install front camber bolts? Anyone else experience this?

    You would either need camber bolts, or simply have a tech that knows how to make the adjustment and then elongate one of the strut to knuckle bolt holes to fit. This is a better routine than the camber bolts, but if you want them they would be these.
    https://www.amazon.com/Centric-Parts-699-44004-Camber-Bolt/dp/B07H994XR7/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1544037228&vehicle=2017-76-1027------------3-0&sr=1-1&ymm=2017:toyota:sienna&keywords=camber+bolts

    BTW the O.E. camber bolts are 90109-A0052, 90109-17013, 90109-17014, and 90109-17015 and are purchased and installed as needed. These have to be clocked via service information as required.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,994
    edited December 2018

    First, there should be no excuse for a vehicle leaving the alignment shop out of spec - or at least, not informing the owner that the vehicle can not be put back into spec and giving them the option of extra cost aftermarket kits to get it back into alignment.

    Right here is where everyone should assume that you are not involved in consumer based servive facility. For the one time in a hundred that a shop encounters someone like the O.P. they will have to deal with fifty that would object to an additional expense and half of them would go so far as to post bad reviews and call them rip-offs, for doing the job correctly.


    Please note: I am of the opinion that EVERY vehicle can be brought back into spec - except for those that have crash damage - and even then …..!

    On this I will agree, it can be done. The question is at what cost and who pays? I know who shouldn't and that is the technician and yet that is exactly what often happens when dealing with a vehicle that requires anything over the basic adjustments. BTDT too many times to count. You'd have to experience this first hand to really know what I am talking about.


    I suggest you take it somewhere else, one that will state up front that it might be necessary to install a camber kit and how much that would cost.

    I would adjust this easily without a camber kit install on the front. I need information about the rear to truly comment on it.

    But there is one more thing that needs to be considered and that is, does this Sienna have an ADAS systems installed such as Radar Cruise? Pre Crash Warning or Assist? Blind Spot Assist? Lane Departure Warning or Assist? If it does this "basic" alignment just got a whole lot more complicated.

  • capriracercapriracer Somewhere in the USPosts: 877
    Cardoc said: " …….. For the one time in a hundred that a shop encounters someone like the O.P. they will have to deal with fifty that would object to an additional expense and half of them would go so far as to post bad reviews and call them rip-offs, for doing the job correctly. …… "

    What I am objecting to is a customer leaving the shop thinking his alignment is in spec and it isn't. This is deceptive and worthy of a bad review. There are ways to inform the consumer that he has a problem and what it will take to make it right. In particular, being upfront that there may be some additional costs is the right way to do business. Having a customer leave the shop with the job not done right is not.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,994
    At this point that is what the OP has stated. I haven't seen the specs and measurements yet.  Did you?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 120,254

    At this point that is what the OP has stated. I haven't seen the specs and measurements yet.  Did you?

    We shouldn't have to craft every response on the basis of hypotheticals. The OP stated that was the case, and a reply was made, based on that statement.

    Sheeeesh

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,994
    kyfdx said:

    We shouldn't have to craft every response on the basis of hypotheticals. The OP stated that was the case, and a reply was made, based on that statement.

    Without real oversight you are correct, you wouldn't have to and the responses don't have to be correct. It has always been acceptable, maybe even desirable to throw the shops/techs under the bus. We don't know how far out of spec this vehicle is, that means it isn't known if a correction is really necessary or not. There is plenty of room here for the shop to have done exactly what they should have done on the technical side even if they failed to communicate that fact. Everyone needs to take a step back and work from hard facts especially in the world now where ADAS adaptives might also come into play. If it needs a rear toe correction and has laser cruise this becomes a lot more than "just an alignment". If it isn't perfectly in spec but is within tolerance then it should be left alone.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 120,254

    kyfdx said:

    We shouldn't have to craft every response on the basis of hypotheticals. The OP stated that was the case, and a reply was made, based on that statement.

    Without real oversight you are correct, you wouldn't have to and the responses don't have to be correct. It has always been acceptable, maybe even desirable to throw the shops/techs under the bus. We don't know how far out of spec this vehicle is, that means it isn't known if a correction is really necessary or not. There is plenty of room here for the shop to have done exactly what they should have done on the technical side even if they failed to communicate that fact. Everyone needs to take a step back and work from hard facts especially in the world now where ADAS adaptives might also come into play. If it needs a rear toe correction and has laser cruise this becomes a lot more than "just an alignment". If it isn't perfectly in spec but is within tolerance then it should be left alone.

    In our (my) world (this forum), we are allowed to relate our experience, without it being assumed that we are lying about it. We can also reply, based on that assumption. We don't need proof.

    Your speculation and expertise about the possible actual problem is appreciated. But, others may provide feedback without the "proof" you seem to require.

    There are plenty of crappy tire and repair shops out there. If your intention is to defend each and every one of them (without proof?), that is going to be exhausting. ;)

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    Edmunds Moderator

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