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Traffic Laws & Enforcement Tactics

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  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    You better stay out of the 'fast' lane here... 'keep right except to pass'.
    And obstructing other traffic is oftentimes the root cause of road rage.
    Be careful what you wish for...
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Yes, well we in America seem to think the "fast" lane means the "speeding" lane.

    And I disagree vehemently with that.

    I can drive the speed limit (legally) in ANY lane I want, in any state.

    No state has a law which says the "fast lane is for SPEEDERS only."

    If the "fast lane" average speed is 75 and the speed limit is just 65 (a much-too-common-occurrence) and I need to pass someone using that "fast" lane and I can pass them going 65 but it might take a mile or two (saying the person I'm passing is only going 62 MPH) I have every right to be in that lane long enough to make the pass.

    The same token, unless there is a sign which says "left lane for passing only" then I can also legally drive 65 in any lane I want - including the fast lane.

    I know, there are true stories of people getting ticketed for "disrupting the flow of traffic" but there are VERY few judges who are going to uphold a ticket for someone who was driving the LEGAL speed limit.

    All this discussion is just silly. Just obey the traffic laws and quit trying to be a rebel.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Yes, well the way I do it is not AT ALL dangerous. Just annoying to the speeders. Which is my goal.

    ROFL! Cutting people off and impeding traffic are not only ALWAYS dangerous but also against the law.

    But let us play it your way.

    Yes, well the way I speed (do it) is not at all dangerous. Just annoying to the campers and blockers and slow pokes; which is my goal.

    Actually my goal in speeding isn't to annoy people, cause danger, or get somewhere on time (usually, but not always).

    I just don't have time to waste, as I'm a busy guy and have things to do that are more valueable than the extra 3 droplets of gasoline I'll use speeding. As I tell my wife who sometimes reminds me to slow down (if only to avoid getting another ticket), "I'll slow down when I get there!" is my smart response.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Yes, well we in America seem to think the "fast" lane means the "speeding" lane.

    that's not true, it is simply the passing lane. If you aren't the fastest traffic on the road, then you are impeding it, and need to move right. Very simple.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    edited November 2011
    andres3 says, "Cutting people off and impeding traffic are not only ALWAYS dangerous but also against the law."

    Well, not the way I do it. I don't impede law-abiding citizens. Just the random "I don't care what the speed limit is, I'm driving THIS FAST SPEED!" drivers.

    Like I said - if you rode with me for a few days you could come to understand the purity of my method and how it is neither illegal nor dangerous.....it's just effective...... :shades: :shades: :shades: :shades: :shades:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Totally true.

    It's not illegal in one single state to impede "SPEEDERS."

    Like I said - very few judges are gonna let a ticket stand if you were driving the speed limit.

    If the "traffic flow" is at an illegal speed, then impeding it is not a crime.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited November 2011
    Cut me off as i am speeding, and I will get around you, brake check you, you will careen off the road in your mindless souless blandbox, hopefully to vanish in a fiery explosion down an embankment. I hope it was worth it. If you want to be a traffic cop, sign up and join a force, otherwise know your role and move over, or you might wish you had from an ICU or a pine box. If you seriously go out looking for fights, sooner or later one will find you, and nobody should mourn when you come to an unfortunate end.

    "Authority" as we have it today needs to be en masse brought in front of tribunals, and the bad ones sent to the gallows.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    It is illegal in many areas to obstruct traffic. Speed limits are not mentioned in these laws and are irrelevant.

    Just when the greatest generation is finally aging off the road, now we have to work with selfish useless obstinate boomers.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    California traffic law on "impeding" is as such:

    V C Section 22400 Minimum Speed Law

    Minimum Speed Law

    22400. (a) No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law.

    No person shall bring a vehicle to a complete stop upon a highway so as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic unless the stop is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

    (b) Whenever the Department of Transportation determines on the basis of an engineering and traffic survey that slow speeds on any part of a state highway consistently impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the department may determine and declare a minimum speed limit below which no person shall drive a vehicle, except when necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law, when appropriate signs giving notice thereof are erected along the part of the highway for which a minimum speed limit is established.

    Subdivision (b) of this section shall apply only to vehicles subject to registration.


    Notice it says, "at such a slow speed." That would never mean the legal speed limit.

    That is surely open to judicial interpretation. But I'm pretty sure if I flat out asked a judge, "So, you are saying it's LEGAL for the reasonable traffic flow to be at a level of SPEEDING, but it's not legal for me to drive the SPEED LIMIT in any lane I choose to do so?" what the obvious answer would be. A judge cannot condone speeding.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    See post 768. Speed limit is not mentioned but would be considered by a judge if he/she were doing their legal due diligence.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited November 2011
    You forgot to preface that with "in my opinion"

    Just stay in the right lane where you belong, and let actual motorists get on with their lives

    I seriously hope a road rager teaches you a lesson you will never forget.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Is that your professional legal opinion? What makes up your knowledge and credentials in this?

    Just keep right, or someone will make you.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Pshaw....Way to incite violence in a non-violent scenario. We have enough road rage already. Don't be foolish by condoning more of it.

    Take your loss of 10 seconds of time and move on with life.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Well, I've been doing this for about 7 years now in Phoenix, and so far, no one has "made me" do anything.

    Speeding is dumb. Just admit it and move on.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited November 2011
    You're being foolish by looking for a fight. And if finding one seriously changes your life or worse, nobody should mourn. Really, many should celebrate.

    Your passive-agressive idiocy is just "violence" for those who lack the stones to do more.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    In a place with the crime and endless social ills of AZ, you are simply living on borrowed time. Maybe being another soulless boomer in a beige Camry doesn't draw as much ire as others would, but it's only a matter of time. All it takes is a midly unstable thug with a handgun in the center console, and you're gone forever. Would it be worth it?

    If you want to be a cop, please go join a force. Otherwise, move right - it works in more developed places than where you live.

    Blindly deferring to arbitrary "limits" set by overpaid underworked sucks is stupid, if you want to be stupid, fine, just move over and get out of the way.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    As Paul says, 'keep right except to pass' is the law in most states. It doesn't matter if you are doing the speed limit or not.

    Arizona's keep right law is here.

    "On all roadways of sufficient width, a person shall drive a vehicle on the right half of the roadway except as follows:

    1. When overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction under the rules governing the movement.

    2. When the right half of a roadway is closed to traffic while under construction or repair.

    3. On a roadway divided into three marked lanes for traffic under the rules applicable on the roadway.

    4. On a roadway designated and signposted for one-way traffic.

    B. On all roadways, a person driving a vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall drive the vehicle in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway."

    Let the cops do the traffic enforcement please.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    You are the only one who has brought up anything about a "fight."

    I have a method which makes it look like I'm not "intentionally" slowing down anyone.

    And I'm not usually out and about when most of the drunks are around.

    And....did you just say if I die that people should celebrate?

    That's fairly harsh, bro........ :(
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Steve says, "Let the cops do the traffic enforcement please."

    Well, obviously, if there were enough cops around to do the enforcement, then my little efforts to assist them would be unnecessary....

    I have complained to the DPS several times about the particular short stretch of highway I travel (about 3 miles once a day) and they so far are not doing their job.

    So.....
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited November 2011
    You willingly say you intentionally block people. That's an offensive maneuver. It's looking for a fight whether or not you want to admit it.

    Who said anything about drunks? Although maybe you should be called in as one.

    We live in a harsh world. Reality is harsh. Less harsh when people can swallow their pride and embrace lane discipline. I speed a lot - although when at home seldom more than 10 or so over. When someone comes up behind me moving faster, I move over as soon as I can and let them go past, then I go on with whatever I was doing, no harm done. I don't know why they are going faster and I don't care. Why is that so bad?
  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    Lars - do what you want. I'll go around you. Take your chances, behind me.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    ...and he shouldn't be surprised if he gets cut off. People who deliberately hold up traffic to "enforce" the speed limit seem to have outsized ego's and exaggerated self worth. In fact, it's a good way to cause traffic accidents and if he does, hopefully he's the one who gets impacted the worst. That behavior in my book is just being a jerk.
  • m6vxm6vx Member Posts: 142
    "I'm always trying to cut speeders off, and block them in traffic."

    and

    "Cut me off as i am speeding, and I will get around you, brake check you, you will careen off the road in your mindless souless blandbox, hopefully to vanish in a fiery explosion down an embankment."

    We just need to take the idiots off the road. :sick:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Like I said - my ego is intact and normal. Have never come CLOSE to causing an accident, because I do it in a safe manner.

    And since you are so adept at psycho-analysis of people you don't know, go ahead and give me the mental rundown on speeders who think the laws don't apply to them, think that the laws of physics don't apply to them, and think that they can do whatever they want, please.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Well, you are half right..... :sick:
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    edited November 2011
    Please cite me the vehicle code that says that impeding traffic is allowed if you drive the speed limit. Or to put it another way, please show me where it says that you CANNOT by definition impede traffic once you go the speed limit.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    Actually you're likely at more risk of being in an accident, including a nasty head-on, by left lane camping.

    Here’s a sobering thought for left-lane bandits (Wheels.ca).
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    edited November 2011
    Yes I would be, but I don't left-lane camp. You have milked my tactic out of me.

    I spot a speeder in my rear-view, someone weaving through traffic and obviously oblivious to the speed limit.

    I SAFELY maneuver my way into their path, casually, so they have to slow down. Then I SAFELY and conveniently slow down or speed up to the speed of the car in the lane beside me, causing a "blockage" but not making it obvious.

    (Remember - this is almost always only done on one 3-mile stretch of a 2-3 lane freeway I use in the mornings. Nothing on a 5-8 lane monster freeway. And this freeway has a concrete divider median between it and the oncoming traffic.)

    As long as possible, I make it look innocent and accidental. Then as required for SAFETY, I do what it takes to get to my exit lane.

    I wish you all could come ride with me and see how I do it. It's not inflammatory in ANY way. But it gets the job done.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Well, obviously, if there were enough cops around to do the enforcement, then my little efforts to assist them would be unnecessary....

    I have complained to the DPS several times about the particular short stretch of highway I travel (about 3 miles once a day) and they so far are not doing their job.


    It's because the speed limits are set by gov't officials more interested in maximizing revenue than in setting reasonable speed limits. The cops (most of them at least) don't give a crap if your speeding, because it makes their job easier to meet quotas if everyone is doing so. If no one sped, then their job would be much tougher!

    You must be one of those vigilante minute men border patrol members too, since they don't do thier "job" either!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    edited November 2011
    In fact, it's a good way to cause traffic accidents and if he does, hopefully he's the one who gets impacted the worst. That behavior in my book is just being a jerk.

    What's hilarious is he cited saving gas as a reason to not speed, yet with all the traffic jams due to the domino effect of brake checking and slowing down traffic, he's probably caused TONS more pollution and wasted gas than he has saved.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You're impeding traffic and becoming a safety hazard.

    Enough, let's move on (in the proper lane please!).
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    edited November 2011
    You might think it's not inflammatory, but inside, sometimes deep inside, the flame gets fed more gas and the fire grows within.

    Some might attribute it to cluelessness and obliviousness (which is what you are saying you try to make it look like), but the smart one's know that some of these are just actors like you and are doing it on purpose.

    I suspected as much for a long time, thanks for confirming my suspicions.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    We tied (although the edits messed up the time stamps). :)

    But we really are moving on....
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    edited November 2011
    I love livening up the Spirit Of Debate !! I managed to being this forum to LIFE today !! :shades: :shades: :shades: ;)

    (and other than the Death Wish, I thought it went fairly well !!!)
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Your wish for SUPER Photo radar camera's and videos enforcing multiple citations per second will never happen in law abiding, constitution respecting States.

    Radar is ancient technology, and is thus susceptible to errrors and erroneous "spurious" readings.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    I knew that the original post would open up a can of worms. I had to bite my tongue (fingers) to keep myself replying then not wanting to fuel the fervor I suspected he was trying to incite. Thankfully it's over now...
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Some people under estimate the number of GUNS out there and how some people who have been "taught a lesson" are apt to use them.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Oh, yes, the right to shoot someone because you want to speed is guaranteed in the Constitution......
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    My point, that you seemed to have missed is the fact that "lesson teachers" have no idea of the state of mind that other driver may have.

    He may be a mental case with a pistol lying on his front seat.

    " Brake Check" a person like that and you might just push him over the edge.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Oh, yes, the right to shoot someone because you want to speed is guaranteed in the Constitution......

    just keep your windows up and a low profile. Unless you're a skilled marksman, it's hard to get a clean head-shot through a closed window. At least, that's what they told us back when we had to contend with the Beltway sniper! :surprise:
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    At least, that's what they told us back when we had to contend with the Beltway sniper!

    Interesting...

    Is it because of the reflection of the glass? The glass itself reflecting the bullet path? Hmmm... :confuse:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Is it because of the reflection of the glass? The glass itself reflecting the bullet path? Hmmm...

    I think it's a little bit of both. Also, I think it's more than just reflections on the glass, but also refraction, distortion, or whatever they call it. Depending on the curvature of the glass and such, the target inside might not be exactly where they appear to be when viewed from outside. I think it's the same general principle as curved windshields back in the day, and how if you tried looking out the part where it curved the most sharply, it would distort your view.

    Regardless of how hard a head shot is to make though, I'd rather not make myself a target!
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    edited November 2011
    Forget a head shot, people will soon be equipping their vehicles with grenade and rocket launchers that would expire all souls within the vehicle in one shot!

    Vigilante justice!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Sounds like a way to thin out the LLC herd. I've always wanted a missile launcher in my car.

    Been in Hotlanta and surrounding states for 10 days now - issue here isn't LLCs surprisingly enough, but tailgaters, and dare I say, lack of speed enforcement (or reasonable limits). Countless times I have been going 70-75 in a 55 and am being passed by the majority of traffic - albeit on a wide open smooth safe road. The undoubtedly comfortably paid civil engineers here need to rethink their strategies.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Hotlanta is like Chicago and a lot of other big cities - you take your life in your hands if you try to do the limit. The right lane pokes and the other lanes speed. I'm not sure any one actually drives the posted limit except for cop cars (and they often exceed it too) and an occasional old foggy.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    It's so different than Seattle, where going even 5 over puts you in the top 10% or so most of the time, and the locals are both timid and passive-aggressive, loving to poke along at just under the limit. I don't mind doing as the Romans do and just flying along at 15-20 over like so many others - not a lot of spots for cops to hide out on most urban highways either.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    It's very rare now to see a police unit doing the limit, they used to do it to slow up traffic, sometimes employing two cruisers running in formation.

    I think they quit that when they realized it was just causing traffic to bunch up. Nowadays the only way you get a speeding ticket is if you're blowing by traffic or out there by yourself going into a trap. You're pretty safe just pacing traffic at 5-10 over.

    Where I come from the right lane is sometimes the fastest as the dolts loaf in the fast lane and traffic flows around them to the right. It's especially prevalent in Connecticut, a state full of terrible drivers possibly due to the absurdly low limits (state speed limit 55-but don't try that on the Merritt or Wilbur Cross, they'll run right over you!) .

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The two states that really stick in my mind for keep left except to pass are both in the Midwest - Wisconsin and Indiana. Texas sticks in my mind for driver's not moving over to let people merge onto the expressways.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Forget a head shot, people will soon be equipping their vehicles with grenade and rocket launchers that would expire all souls within the vehicle in one shot!

    Well, back in the 70's, there was an "SS" Version of the Volkwagen Karman-Ghia!

    image
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Nowadays the only way you get a speeding ticket is if you're blowing by traffic or out there by yourself going into a trap. You're pretty safe just pacing traffic at 5-10 over.

    Here in MA, the speed limits on the highways really are just guides. 5-10 over won't get you in trouble. What does get you in trouble is flying past other vehicles or weaving in and out of moderate traffic - basically drawing attention to yourself.

    LLC are rare around here. It seems mostly folks that were going right along and then got a phone call. Cell phone use immediately drops speed by 10 mph.
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