If you want a real truck get a Dodge or Ford. If you want a cheap heap truck get a Chevy or Toyota. The word Chevy means. The cheapest heap enVision yet.
So how bad did Chevy burn you? Only someone with a huge chip on their shoulders would be so atimate to campaign against and put so much negative energy into slamming a truck manufacturer as much as you do. You must of been nieve in your purchase, didn't do your homework, don't know anything about trucks, or all the previously mentioned.
You never answered me on the other post. Did you figure out what needle shims are? LOL! Quad and I are on you! Wait a few years until you actually have a driver's license before you can enter this type of debate.
I'm proud to see you learned about the caps lock key at school today. Next lesson(Probably a wasted one on you): Dodge makes inferior engines. Plain and simple. IT's a real engineering accomplishment to make an engine that sucks so much fuel but makes up for it with mediocre performance. The 5.2 makes what? 235-240 hp? Chevy's 5.3 makes 40-50 more horsepower with about the same torque. And better fuel consumption. Dodge's 5.9 makes 245 hp in the ram and I think 345 lb-ft of torque. The Silverado's 6.0 makes 300 hp and 385 lb-ft. Both Chevy and Ford are more advanced and more powerful. Dodge will be witing until 2003 to redeign the Ram if I've heard right. By that time Ford's 5.4 will be making 300 hp and even more than it's current class leading 350 lb-ft of torque. If Dodge does not start moving faster and making more improvements sooner it will be playing catchup for another decade. Their first priority should be a new high output V8 for the half ton. The 4.7 would be a mistake in the Ram. Either rework, or, better yet, completely replace the 5.9 with a new engine of the same displacement that is not a leftover 60's throwback.
The entire gas engine lineup will be replaced in the 2002 model year. The story is that they are going to be using the hemi design and will be procing a great deal more power. The 1500 series will have a complete redesign in the 2002 model year and the 2500/3500 series in 2003. They will have two seperate lines at that point.
By the way, although dodge's engine are old in design and less efficient than both ford and chevy, they are bulletproof.
Bullitproof? err wutch 'u be smokin' boy? redesign or not it's too late for dodge. by that time toyota will have left dodge in the dust. that's dodge though, not chevy or ford, their already on to toyota.
I'm glad you made that point about Dodge engines. I agree, the current design may not have the sex appeal of the high zoot engines, but they are tough nonetheless.
that was comming out. 300 horse I think, but I can't remember. But I think the 4.7L would be a good small V-8 for the Ram. Heck, they should have used that for the 2000-2001 model year instead of sticking with the 318. Big mistake there. Sounds like they'll close the gap by 2002...
Tough? How about anemic? They couldn't compete with Chevy's old 350 of the day. Hell, the Ford I-6 kicked [non-permissible content removed] even in 3/4 ton trucks. Go ahead and compare old versus old and Dodge still placed third. Nostalgia for engines that were never favored perplexes me.
I liked my 99 Silverado, despite a few initial quality issues in the new model. I really like my 2000 F150 though. I have seen nothing but quality so far. Course, I only have 300 miles on it so far. I will not be too proud to post any problems I encounter. It is a truck and I don't take things personally like I have seen some on Edmunds do.
Only reason people buy Fords is cuz they can't aFORD a Chevy! Now Dodge, not to much else to add except maybe they need to stop working so hard on there engines and do something about that cheap ol' interior and clunky hood/grill. Come on back when the RAMS are grown up.
I will agree with those that say that dodge's egines are in need of replacement. I will also agree that the brakes are not as good as ford's and possibly chevy's. I definately disagree about your assesment of the interior. From the driver's seat it is the roomiest cab and the best laid out of the three. You either have not been in a Dodge or cannot tolerate anything but a chevy squared off dash that has only had mild updates from the seventies. The thing about the dodge dash that may have confused you was that it was that unlike chevy, you don't have to constantly fixing broken pieces or fixing rattles.
I take it none of you have sat in a Ford Super Duty Cab lately, these trucks make the full size Ford, Chevy, & Dodge seem like your sitting in a mini truck. Take one for a test drive if you can find one on a lot. I'm waiting for GM & Dodge to come out with something to compare to the Super Duty.
I agree the Dodge interior is nice, but disagree that the Chevy dash is broken or rattles. So far, mine has been very solid after 27,000 miles. '99 Z71.
The Ford SD dash is incredibly boring, but I love the spaciousness of it. I don't need that much truck. Won't fit in my garage. And it's noisy. Rides stiff. But it's a real truck capable of serious work, or towing 5th wheels, and a top choice. But it looks great and has impressive size. That's why people who don't need what it offers will put up with it anyway. Most of my friends that have SDs and Cummins trucks also drive cars.
The dodge is nearly identical in all dimensions to the superduty cab. This is one of the many reasons that I'm seriously considering this as my next truck-in the very near future. A little boring but spacious and great payload ratings. 90-95% of the time the 1500 does the trick but I do get those 2,500-3,200# loads that I simply will not chance in the 1500 series. Unfortunately I would lose the quiet ride in my dodge.
Only had one rattle with my Chevy in 2years and it was cuz I broke part myself, very dumb. What I was writting about in particular was the seats and layout of the console. I did take a look at all Chevy's competitors in '98-'99 and decided on the new body style Silverado. And I do have to admit I biased towards Chevy, but if something else is out and I think its better, then I will give it a try. Except a Ford. No harm meant.
I am an educated man, have a very good income, and could buy any of the trucks available with cash, multiple times. Money had nothing to do with my decision of buying a quality product. Glad you like your Chevy. Mine was only a year old and spent more time being worked on than being driven (mainly by me because GM wouldn't).
You seem to be one of those blind faith die hard GM fans. Thats fine. There are plenty of people that are ok with overlooking quality issues to be loyal to GM. I am not one of them. If I was willing to endure fixing all the initial quality issues, eventually my Silverado would have been a good truck. Too many issues to have to deal with on a $27k truck.
May have problems with the Ford. May not. At least I am not blinded by a bowtie emblem though.
I went looking for a Crew Cab 4x4 fullsize, never would consider a Ford before when buying a truck. I wanted a 2000, I had looked at the GM product almost bought one, but the fact that you couldn't even order a airbag in one was an uneasy point. In a 3/4 ton, it's not required so GM doesn't install it. I had in the pass a GMC Seirra & a Suburban, no problems except a bad rear axle in the Sub. When GM couldn't offer the options I wanted in a Crew Cab. I looked at Ford's Super Duty, I liked the look, the roominess the back seat has 45 inches of room compared to 38 for GM. and airbags were standard. I know airbags are not garaunteed life savers, some even kill, but I didn't want to be in the situation that if I or my passenger could of been saved if there was an airbag, and I had decided on the truck without one. Heck when GM brings out their new Crew Cab I may sell my Ford. But as of right now, nobody has a truck like the Ford Super Duty Crew Cab.
All you Bowtie, Ford, Dodge and any other make out there, you tell me that when you're stuck out in the boonies in a mud hole and you have tried everything to get out, that no matter what you see coming around the bend, if it's not the same make as yours, that you are going to refuse their help.........ya right.......and I got a bridge in Utah to sell too. (sorry I got off topic)
Rocles, you are honestly saying that an early 90's unmodified 350 outpowered a dodge 318 or 360?. Now way. The 350's before chevy revamped them where slugs. 200 or 210 horsepower (depending on year) and 300-310 pounds feet of torque. Dont get me wrong good trucks but any dodge half-ton pickup or ramvan would kill the chevy in towing or stoplight braggin contest. I know, I know you have probably drivin both many times in your VAST experience we always hear about, but so have I and many others. During the early 90's many regarded chevy as having the inferior engine whereas dodge and their MAGNUM's where a step above. Sorta like chebby today.
They all complain of the same problems I encountered. Steering rattles and vibrations, heavy spark knock (although a year later, I finally got it pretty well fixed....MYSELF), launch shutter, transmission clunk, etc. etc.
Glad you got one of the few ones or you are able to just ignore the problems. I could do that too if the truck was 10 years old. I just couldn't see having paid for a new truck and driving one that ran worse than that 10 year old truck.
If you think the GM trucks are the best all around, you would really love the F150! No noises, smooth operation, lots of power, higher ride stance, etc. etc.
I buy the best truck at the best value. The GM truck will be good in a few years when all the quality issues are resolved. Till then, I will keep driving the new "lesser quality" F150 and love every minute of it!
Vast experience? Me? Hell, I hardly bring it up anymore...but since you raised my ire--I'm game. 230hp is a huge jump over 210? Hmmmm... Second off , seems to me that those mighty (anemic) Magnums still only pull 300 pounds versus the early 350's performace of--What?--300 lbs??
Where is the improvement?
That's right. I'd still take an early 90's Chevy 350 over ANY 318 coughed up by that crap Chrysler Corp. This from a Ford fan, mind you.
By the way, where were you living in the first half of the 90's?? Since when was the Ram a better truck than a Chevy? Are Dodge fans subjecting to revisionist history now? The only Rams sold before 94 were the ones with the Cummins. Gas jobs barely cracked 50k in production. The overall line was @90 grand a year. I'm no Chevy fan but who wants a 318 Dodge over a 350?
Yeah your right 230 versus 210 or 200 horses isnt that much of a difference on PAPER. But in the real world the 318 always had more get up and go. Maybe the fuel injection system (MPI versus TBI ??) was more advanced on the dodge at the time but they certainly had more topend and wouldnt run out of breath like the chevy did. Its amazing, maybe here in Canada we arent as blinded by the GM propaganda as you slick americans are but most people I have talked with think the early 90's dodge powerplants a step above the chevy's. Iam not even going to go into sales in determining who had the better pickup truck and which had a better engine. As a wise man once said "you can sell [non-permissible content removed] on a stick if you market it right" and thats what GM has done many times in the past. Hey I can hear the Bob Seager tune playin in your head now.
Are you sure you're comparing 350 vs. 318?? Chevy had a dog motor 305 that the 318 maybe outperformed. Or 360 vs. 350, again maybe. I just don't see the 318 out performing the 350 with equal gearing. Any magazine comparisons or any other data or do we just take your word for it?
Comments
The word Chevy means. The cheapest heap enVision yet.
Get over it, grow up, and get on with life.
he found it once, but seems to can't find it again!
And please dont put Chevy and toyopet in the same sentence let alone grouping em together.
what a joke..
...They got a body people buy....now they need brakes/an engine/and a tranny!
Ford and Chevy...the only 2 choices worth making.
I chose Chevy.
Somebody get this Kid outa here..
..Meredith....do we really need this topic?
- Tim
You never answered me on the other post. Did you figure out what needle shims are? LOL! Quad and I are on you! Wait a few years until you actually have a driver's license before you can enter this type of debate.
By the way, although dodge's engine are old in design and less efficient than both ford and chevy, they are bulletproof.
redesign or not it's too late for dodge. by that
time toyota will have left dodge in the dust.
that's dodge though, not chevy or ford, their
already on to toyota.
...red
Nostalgia for engines that were never favored perplexes me.
Sorry for off topic.
Now Dodge, not to much else to add except maybe they need to stop working so hard on there engines and do something about that cheap ol' interior and clunky hood/grill. Come on back when the RAMS are grown up.
'99 Z71.
The Ford SD dash is incredibly boring, but I love the spaciousness of it. I don't need that much truck. Won't fit in my garage. And it's noisy. Rides stiff. But it's a real truck capable of serious work, or towing 5th wheels, and a top choice. But it looks great and has impressive size. That's why people who don't need what it offers will put up with it anyway. Most of my friends that have SDs and Cummins trucks also drive cars.
No harm meant.
Danog
Glad you like your Chevy. Mine was only a year old and spent more time being worked on than being driven (mainly by me because GM wouldn't).
You seem to be one of those blind faith die hard GM fans. Thats fine. There are plenty of people that are ok with overlooking quality issues to be loyal to GM. I am not one of them. If I was willing to endure fixing all the initial quality issues, eventually my Silverado would have been a good truck. Too many issues to have to deal with on a $27k truck.
May have problems with the Ford. May not. At least I am not blinded by a bowtie emblem though.
I'll take a bowtie thank you..
- Tim
and airbags were standard. I know airbags are not garaunteed life savers, some even kill, but I didn't want to be in the situation that if I or my passenger could of been saved if there was an airbag, and I had decided on the truck without one. Heck when GM brings out their new Crew Cab I may sell my Ford. But as of right now, nobody has a truck like the Ford Super Duty Crew Cab.
All you Bowtie, Ford, Dodge and any other make out there, you tell me that when you're stuck out in the boonies in a mud hole and you have tried everything to get out, that no matter what you see coming around the bend, if it's not the same make as yours, that you are going to refuse their help.........ya right.......and I got a bridge in Utah to sell too. (sorry I got off topic)
cool!
- Tim
They all complain of the same problems I encountered. Steering rattles and vibrations, heavy spark knock (although a year later, I finally got it pretty well fixed....MYSELF), launch shutter, transmission clunk, etc. etc.
Glad you got one of the few ones or you are able to just ignore the problems. I could do that too if the truck was 10 years old. I just couldn't see having paid for a new truck and driving one that ran worse than that 10 year old truck.
If you think the GM trucks are the best all around, you would really love the F150! No noises, smooth operation, lots of power, higher ride stance, etc. etc.
I buy the best truck at the best value. The GM truck will be good in a few years when all the quality issues are resolved. Till then, I will keep driving the new "lesser quality" F150 and love every minute of it!
Vast experience? Me? Hell, I hardly bring it up anymore...but since you raised my ire--I'm game. 230hp is a huge jump over 210? Hmmmm... Second off , seems to me that those mighty (anemic) Magnums still only pull 300 pounds versus the early 350's performace of--What?--300 lbs??
Where is the improvement?
That's right. I'd still take an early 90's Chevy 350 over ANY 318 coughed up by that crap Chrysler Corp. This from a Ford fan, mind you.
By the way, where were you living in the first half of the 90's?? Since when was the Ram a better truck than a Chevy? Are Dodge fans subjecting to revisionist history now? The only Rams sold before 94 were the ones with the Cummins. Gas jobs barely cracked 50k in production. The overall line was @90 grand a year.
I'm no Chevy fan but who wants a 318 Dodge over a 350?
Iam not even going to go into sales in determining who had the better pickup truck and which had a better engine. As a wise man once said "you can sell [non-permissible content removed] on a stick if you market it right" and thats what GM has done many times in the past. Hey I can hear the Bob Seager tune playin in your head now.
Like A rock!!!!!!!!
and the 350 parts for Chevy's are just so expensive...
uh huh..
keep telling yourself this...
- Tim