but the 350 is a great engine no matter what horsepower level it has. I can't say the same about the 318. Just my experience though.
dbhull - yeah, good luck with your Ford. I drove it and the Dodge and prefered the Silverado. More room, power, mileage, etc. Just a nicer truck in my opinion, but the Ford is nice also. But your sorely mistaken if you don't think Ford has any of the same problems. Like I said a bad apple and I can point you to many posts of Ford problems, but what's the use...
You are correct. What would be the use? I've already had my share of quality issues with the Silverado. There is no way an F150, with 3 years to work out the bugs, could come even close to having as many quality issues to resolve.
I am glad that those that claim they don't have problems with their Silverado are satisfied. I must just have much higher expectations than most other Silverado owners have.
The Silverado was my first full size Chevy I ever owned. I owned nothing but Fords up till then. The Fords never gave me even 1/4 the grief the Silverado gave me. Most other Silverado owners I conversed with had the same problems, but they had bowtie glasses on and always acted like the problems were not a big deal. Huge blind loyaly factor seems to exist among GM fans. That is ok. It is their money. If they are ok with having to work on their own brand new vehicle more than they drive it, to each their own. I would rather be driving my truck rather than working on it, so I went back to Ford.
I have a friend that owns a GMC Envoy and a GMC Denalli. He is constantly taking both in for fixing one thing or another. Yet he still swears that GM is the best auto maker, Jeff Gordon and Little E are the best Nascar racers, and Apple pie is sacred. Tunnel visioned big time.
Thats ok though. He's my best friend. I don't mind giving him a lift back from the GM Service shop in my Ford. One day he may just learn a lesson with all he pays out for a vehicle constantly in the shop.
If you can't tell by my post, I say all of this in fun. Makes no diff to me what other people drive and have best luck with. For my money, the Ford has more quality. I would buy another GM truck, but not till all the quality issues are resolved. I would have been a better sport about the problems had GM even attempted to fix them. Most shops knew less about the new Silverado and how to work on them than I did. The ones that did know a little bit, didn't give a rip to try and help me out. I got the typical, "Within limits", "No problem found", "Could not duplicate at this time", etc.etc. Didn't matter that I showed them the Defective equipment notifications via NHTSA, as well as certified statements from over 100 other owners with the same problem. They didn't care. That is worse than not knowing how to fix the problem.
I have a 98 Durango with a 318 in it, the vehicle is fine but the GAS MILEAGE SUCKS, I'm lucky to 13.8 on the highway, no matter how I drive, and 9 when I pull my boat. Yet with a 5.4 in my Ford Crew Cab 4x4 I get 16 on the highway & 11 towing my boat. What gives, my truck must weigh 2 to 3 thousand lbs more.
From what I have experienced, Dodges are gas-hogs. My brother's brother-in-law (did everyone follow that) had an extended cab Dodge with a 360 auto. When they set out to go to work (in other states) they only got at the very most 14 mpg, empty, 100% highway. My brother gets more than that with his 460 Ford. He gets nearly that when pulling a 5000 lb trailer, and 460's have never been good on gas. None of us could even believe how bad the mileage was in the Dodge, until we talked to some other Dodge guys. Same story. As for an explanation, I have none. I just know they suck gas, big-time.
"Here in Canada" ?? So what is that worth? A klondike bar? Canukers make up--what?-30 million? Hmmmm--Such a supreme civilization. (That's right--I can say Canuk since my wife is from Orillia, Ontario.)
The 318 is a DOG! DOG! Did I say DOG?? Give me a break...who would take a piece-of-crap 318 versus the always optioned 350? And what truck would you put it in? You never answered that one. Would you go with the 318 in a pre-94 Ram over a Chevy of like model year? Hmmmmm
I guess I should have replied: "Here in Philadelphia, er... we're slicker than those Dodge guys..." Hmmmm, seems to me though, that those wonderful 318 were sitting at the dealer's lot while the 350's were working...
Those pre-'94 Rams remind me a lot of the chevy trucks. Squared of, boring, no imagination. Dodge did something about that and Chevy.....Well maybe next time.
That "Box" shape..aka 77...happens to be one of the most classic pick up styles made. All the years of Chevy's....box or not....sold in very good numbers......and Dodge?....well.."maybe next time.."
I'd snap a picture of one to remind you...but I can't seem to find any on the road....DOHH!!
How about the failed Ramcharger?.....as low as 2600 units made in one year!.....
as I've said.....the looks of the Dodge seems to be the only thing that makes it sell..(farr behind GM #'s I might add)...and the only defense Dodge fans can use...
There is a dodge 3500 with a cummins here where i work ugly green color. Its probably an 89 or 90 the ugly style. Please dont take no pics of any if u see em they are ugly there momma slapped em with an ugly stick.
Chevy is the only truck that didnt go radical and why was that??? Chevy did research with its customers and found they wanted a smiliar look. I like the new look and also the old look too they just did a lil rounding. At least 1 automaker communicates with its customers.
Three dodge vans pre-1990 excellent), 1 Ramcharger (garbage),1 Chevy 1 ton, 1 3/4 ton GMC (transmission value=0), 1 toyota truck, 1 Bronco, 2 scouts, 1 Dodge Ram pickup. That's my truck list for the last 15-20 years. I haven't tried a full sized ford yet but probably will. The 318 lasts forever. Period. Ramcharger didn't sell because it was junk. Chevy was fast and loud. Constant had to have the exhaust manifold re-machined (characteristic of the 454). GMC - garbage. Toyota was dependable but only light loads- unacceptable for real work. The broncos and scouts were play vehicles. The Dodge hasn't failed yet but I will admit that the engines are less efficient. I would look at the ford super duty right now but I can't justify a trade when the Dodge has done everything that I asked of it.
Dodge is known for this.....it's possible to get a bad one....as with anything....(dad had a Olds 98....tranny went 3 days after he brought it home..never had another experience like that though with GM)...but I usually don't hear about bad GM trans....or at least Value=0!
The good old THM 350/400 are damn good trannys man
Paid $3680.00 brand new in 76, ran it, rolled it, ditched it, ran it, took abuse like no other truck,with a 318 in it, gas was .46 per gal and my Dad thought that was highway robbery. with 4x4, loaded had everything but air. reverse went out once but that was all my problems. In 87 I traded it off on a bronco 2 (big mistake, nothing but problems) Power Wagon had 157,000 miles on it, got 2700 on the trade, I thought the dealer was nuts....but I guess he saw me coming by unloading that bronco on me.
From the 84 bronco I went to a 86 jeep, then a 87 Dodge Dakota along with an 88 Ramcharger, traded the Ram for a 91 GMC Suburban, and the Dakota for a 95 GMC Sierra, then from the 91 I went to my 98 Durango from the 95 GMC I went to the 00 Super Duty Crew Cab. Out of all those vehicles the only major problem I had was with a rear axle in the Sub. All vehicles have served there purpose, since the bronco that I bought used, I have boughten new.....I just don't want somebody else's traded off problems, even though by going this route and buying used you could save thousands.
I think the ORIGINAL Dodge body style that came out in 72? looked really good,as good as the GM,and a lot better than the Ford.But,like they always seem to do,they ruined it after several years,and changed the side styling and got rid of the fender creases,and just made it as BLAH as possible,I wonder who the dolt was that designed it,and who the heck approved it? When I see a Dakota or Durango without the factory fender flares,it always reminds me of the full size trucks after they messed up the styling.They don't look good at all without flares on them.Good thing they are pretty cheap. Oh,I almost forgot about that insane hood ornament that Dodge had on there towards the end of the old body style.Could there be anything tackier than that thing was?My friend took it off a day after he bought his truck.he said he didn't want to see that thing any longer than he had too.When he got in a wreck,the morons at the body shop REPLACED the ornamant!!He had left them instructions to fill the holes in the new hood before they painted it,it was on the invoice,and they fixed it,but only after my friend went ballistic in the body shop when he came to pick it up.
Long, old story. I won't get into details again but the '92 tranny went out at 38,000 miles and was rebuilt at the dealership and fried again at 54,000 miles (all maintainence was perfomed). They let a bad one go from time to time. The first rebuild was not done at Joe's transmissions and dry cleaners. It was done at the dealership. If it was a lemon it should have been COMPLETELY repaired and brought up to snuff. I suppose that it must have been a rare lemon from the factory and then brought to one of the few dishonest dealerships that had a real fluke- an incompetent certified GM mechanic.
I don't hate GM products, I just keep all that love neatly tucked away where no one can find it for many years.
People say the chevys have the same boxy look...if you go back...even to 1995 for Ford (and later)...and take a look....Chevy has had the most round look way before the others....Ford and Dodge had become a brick wall...(yes even GM had that period..but shorter). 94 saw a radical change for Dodge..(thank God)...and yes,...they got rid of that hood ornament..(i forgot about the tower of ugly)....Ford has changed to a...well....cartoon space look?....and the Chevy remained "similar"...as the customers wanted it...including me.
I realize they didn't make a huge leap..like Ford/Dodge...but they didn't have to...they were already in the round phase for years and years.
That's my take on "the boxy" same look
....what's going on here?....we are actually discussing??
When they went to their new look in 88, I remember people saying they liked the old box type. Back then it was just as radical for GM to change the style of the old reliable, as it was for Dodge in 94, the only differance Dodge had to do something to try to survive. GM just stepped into the future sooner with a new look....History has a way of repeating....look at the PT Crusier..that car/truck combo brings back memories......
Dodge was going to be history for trucks....todays designs are more radical than 1988. So yeah...I guess it was just as radical in 88 as it was for Dodge on 94....never thought of it that way...
Looks...looks...looks... They helped DOdge sell trucks when the norm was blase'. You can hate Ford's new look but obviously it has not hindered the sales. Wonder why? Hmmmmm...must be the actual "truck" inside that won them over. I feel that the re-design in 94 brought in non-truck buyers to the Ram as opposed to stealing from GM and Ford.
Hard to believe some of the people on this message board. I talk about a certain year for a vehicle and they automatically bring up some older souped up model for comparison. Whatever. The fact remains that saying that GMC/CHEVY had greater sales before 1994 (example) does not mean they make a better truck. Come on, Logic like that proves that alot of Americans are the most ignorant people in the world. (rocles)
As for a mid 90's 350's outperforming a magnum 318 in a similarily equiped truck. Well I havent seen it. Drove more than a few 94,95 Chevy Z71 packages with your amazing 350 and a magnum in a dodge truck would always outpull the chebby especially when towing a killer 20 foot stratos bass boat with 225 horse johnson. Of course the gearing for both trucks was 3.72 rearend. I far from an expert but I would assume that its because the dodges were newer tech at the time using MPI fuel injection versus chevy's ancient TBI.
As for rocles and his comment "the only people who owned a pre 93 Dodge Ram where dodge factory workers" thats a pretty funny statement. Again the statistics and sales figures are clouding your mind. I know of more than a few friends who work the deep bush of Northern Ontario and they always ran dodge half tons. Not great to look at but you could beat the crap out of them on a daily basis and they wouldnt wimper. As many people in Bush Camps joke, you can take a dodge 2wd almost anywhere a Chevy 4wd would go.
Getting tired of writing (thank god) but I will leave you with my idea of why dodge ram sales picked up after there major revision in the early 90's. A little something called "ergonomics" . Dodge changed the way pickups looked, brought them into the 90's. People want pleasing curves instead of retarded angles like chevy products today have. I have owned a few chevy's and while the drivetrains are good I and many others agree that the interiors are damn UGLY and cheap!.
Period. Take a Dodge two wheel drive where a Chevy 4WD goes, man you are funny. About the only place that Dodge gas pig is going is to the gas station...
but hopefully Dodge's new multi speed auto will prove to be a better tranny. Hopefully, there new line of engines will breathe a little more life in those trucks also, hopefully...
So were there retired Dodge factory guys in "northern Ontario"? Where is "northern"? Above Toronto (ie:Barrie/Orillia) ?? Because North of that is a barren wasteland. Anyone that lives there deserves a Dodge. Hey Slackjaw, before you spout off your mouth--how about looking up sales figures for Dodge pre-94 and try to give me a reason for it.
I can't wait to see what pipe dream you will think of next...
Why don't I suggest to you to keep a dictionary in front of you, so you can make sure that you can spell correctly! By the way, what's a froum?
Now, getting back to my original point! We have enough topics in this "Town Hall" already. I don't see why someone needed to create another "Chevy Truck" topic. The host weeded out a bunch of near duplicate topics only last month!!!
Like I stated before, I don't care if someone thinks that GM doesn't build good trucks! Their opinion is just as valid as mine! My point is, use one of the MANY chevy truck topic that are already here!!! A good example "Silverado XIII", why not go there?
Chevy can't build trucks, that's why they sell so many. Some people just don't get it - there are a few bad ones made by everyone. Most are made here in the US so I don't get how people in Indiana can make a better truck than the people in Detroit. Sure GM will have more problem cause the make 10 times more than Toyota. Think about it - if Toyota made that many they'd probably have just as many, if not more, problems...
reasoning with these yuppy/kids who claim Tundra as the king. They really do have no clue as to what the hell they are saying.
you are right....if X percent is the average for problems...and GM sells 50 times more than Toys...then they would have 50 times more..by numbers..of problems.
I find these people amusing and well worth my effort to keep in touch....as to see just how dumb people really can be
You mean the Toys roll of the assembly with possible problems?? Boy, and I thought they were perfect....after the what the Tundra guys said and all....
Just got back from working the Sears Point racetrack. More PWT gathered in one spot than a pro wrestling meet. The staff uses 2 new silverados (donated by GM of course) along with 2 new fords (also donated for publicity). The big suprise was they also use 2 new Tacoma 2wd trucks. Kind of amusing. They're given Domestics, but when they spend their own money it's on a Tacoma. BTW, after picking up hillbilly and redneck trash all day, I've decided I don't like NASCAR racing. Yep, they get all that gas for free, while we pay $1.90+ a gallon.
More crying???? OK. There were lots of things I didn't like doing while I was in the military and I don't like doing now, but I don't cry about it. Don't blame Nascar for your having to pull extra duty picking up trash. You are the one that joined the military. The Air Force is the one that took on that volunteer work. I guess the AF stinks because they gave away all your labor, right?
There isn't a sport around that doesn't have sponsorship of some kind. If you knew how much of a Driver's earnings went to pay for his crew, his cars, etc. etc. you would see that it is a business, just like anything else.
For you to blame high gas prices on Nascar is just plain ignorance. That gas is not free. Someone paid for it. Sponsors, etc. pay for it among other things so that we can have a spectator sport with our families. I guess you don't like the Olympic games or Football, or Baseball either, huh?
Quit crying and go drive that Toyota you love so much. Lord knows "it" uses plenty of gas!
The "PWT" you refer to are the minority. I'm positive that if you go to any other sporting event, you'll witness some rogues. And what does it matter anyway? These people are spending their money on entertainment they and I seem fit. As a veteran, I find your responses repugnant towards your own citizens. Does everyone need to accomadate your snobbish social outlook and standards? It is rather disgraceful that the military is accepting elitists such as yourself. Gosh, what would your first impression of me be? A roofer in a work truck must be below your standards....
Actually I volunteered to raise money for charity. That's definetly worthwhile and has nothing to do with the huge waste of resources. The 1 NASCAR fan in the squadron refused to volunteer because he knew how piggish the crowds get there. I've been to many large airshows, fairs, etc. They're mostly clean and well organized in comparasion. At this place you could't see the bare ground because of all the trash simply thrown instead of placed in one of the many trash recepticles. Most of the people there seemed bored by the racing and only watched part of the time and remained drunk or stoned (yeah, lots of pot smokers present). At the end of the race these drunks were turned loose on the highway in droves. As I was picking up trash, a lady commented to me what a waste all the millions of unrecycled cans was. As for all the Thousands of gallons of gas wasted by racing every year, don't worry it's paid for...at your local gas station pump. Also, I don't understand the hero worship. These guys drive cars around a track fast. To me, the real hero's are scientists who find cures for disease, firemen who rescue people out of danger, etc. Rocles, I worked construction, still do for Habitat for Humanity, why would I have a low opinion of a roofer? BTW, I sense you guys just might be NASCAR fans....
Hey, all those bored, piggish, pot smoking drunks and other gang bangers are a uniquely California phenomenon. Please do your part to keep it that way.
Comments
dbhull - yeah, good luck with your Ford. I drove it and the Dodge and prefered the Silverado. More room, power, mileage, etc. Just a nicer truck in my opinion, but the Ford is nice also. But your sorely mistaken if you don't think Ford has any of the same problems. Like I said a bad apple and I can point you to many posts of Ford problems, but what's the use...
I am glad that those that claim they don't have problems with their Silverado are satisfied. I must just have much higher expectations than most other Silverado owners have.
The Silverado was my first full size Chevy I ever owned. I owned nothing but Fords up till then. The Fords never gave me even 1/4 the grief the Silverado gave me. Most other Silverado owners I conversed with had the same problems, but they had bowtie glasses on and always acted like the problems were not a big deal. Huge blind loyaly factor seems to exist among GM fans. That is ok. It is their money. If they are ok with having to work on their own brand new vehicle more than they drive it, to each their own. I would rather be driving my truck rather than working on it, so I went back to Ford.
I have a friend that owns a GMC Envoy and a GMC Denalli. He is constantly taking both in for fixing one thing or another. Yet he still swears that GM is the best auto maker, Jeff Gordon and Little E are the best Nascar racers, and Apple pie is sacred. Tunnel visioned big time.
Thats ok though. He's my best friend. I don't mind giving him a lift back from the GM Service shop in my Ford. One day he may just learn a lesson with all he pays out for a vehicle constantly in the shop.
Good luck with your Clunking Detonator.
Hahahah
- Tim
"Here in Canada" ?? So what is that worth? A klondike bar? Canukers make up--what?-30 million? Hmmmm--Such a supreme civilization. (That's right--I can say Canuk since my wife is from Orillia, Ontario.)
The 318 is a DOG! DOG! Did I say DOG?? Give me a break...who would take a piece-of-crap 318 versus the always optioned 350? And what truck would you put it in? You never answered that one. Would you go with the 318 in a pre-94 Ram over a Chevy of like model year? Hmmmmm
Roc
God those puppys are ugly!
No wonder they sold more in 94 than all previous years combined I bet!
I betcha 95% of 94-2000 Ram owners never owned a Dodge pickup before.
...Great following eh?
- Tim
318 is a nice little engine. It has/had more get-up than the 305. But the 305 did get a LOT better gas mileage--but so did everything vs Dodge.
318 vs 350??? Please. My '94 350 would outpull and get better mileage than my best friends '98 Dodge with 318.
318 and 360 are bulletproof. top performers, though they are not.
That "Box" shape..aka 77...happens to be one of the most classic pick up styles made.
All the years of Chevy's....box or not....sold in very good numbers......and Dodge?....well.."maybe next time.."
I'd snap a picture of one to remind you...but I can't seem to find any on the road....DOHH!!
How about the failed Ramcharger?.....as low as 2600 units made in one year!.....
..you must be a "since 94" Dodge man...
- Tim
How sad
- Tim
Chevy is the only truck that didnt go radical and why was that??? Chevy did research with its customers and found they wanted a smiliar look. I like the new look and also the old look too they just did a lil rounding. At least 1 automaker communicates with its customers.
Ryan
I'm surprised you would say Tranny value=0..
Dodge is known for this.....it's possible to get a bad one....as with anything....(dad had a Olds 98....tranny went 3 days after he brought it home..never had another experience like that though with GM)...but I usually don't hear about bad GM trans....or at least Value=0!
The good old THM 350/400 are damn good trannys man
wah happened??
- Tim
From the 84 bronco I went to a 86 jeep, then a 87 Dodge Dakota along with an 88 Ramcharger, traded the Ram for a 91 GMC Suburban, and the Dakota for a 95 GMC Sierra, then from the 91 I went to my 98 Durango from the 95 GMC I went to the 00 Super Duty Crew Cab. Out of all those vehicles the only major problem I had was with a rear axle in the Sub. All vehicles have served there purpose, since the bronco that I bought used, I have boughten new.....I just don't want somebody else's traded off problems, even though by going this route and buying used you could save thousands.
When I see a Dakota or Durango without the factory fender flares,it always reminds me of the full size trucks after they messed up the styling.They don't look good at all without flares on them.Good thing they are pretty cheap.
Oh,I almost forgot about that insane hood ornament that Dodge had on there towards the end of the old body style.Could there be anything tackier than that thing was?My friend took it off a day after he bought his truck.he said he didn't want to see that thing any longer than he had too.When he got in a wreck,the morons at the body shop REPLACED the ornamant!!He had left them instructions to fill the holes in the new hood before they painted it,it was on the invoice,and they fixed it,but only after my friend went ballistic in the body shop when he came to pick it up.
I don't hate GM products, I just keep all that love neatly tucked away where no one can find it for many years.
94 saw a radical change for Dodge..(thank God)...and yes,...they got rid of that hood ornament..(i forgot about the tower of ugly)....Ford has changed to a...well....cartoon space look?....and the Chevy remained "similar"...as the customers wanted it...including me.
I realize they didn't make a huge leap..like Ford/Dodge...but they didn't have to...they were already in the round phase for years and years.
That's my take on "the boxy" same look
....what's going on here?....we are actually discussing??
LOL
- Tim
boxy to you, round to me, but I think the boxy chevy accusation is just an excuse!
don't worry Tim, someone will disrupt the order and civility...
- Tim
- Tim
- Tim
As for a mid 90's 350's outperforming a magnum 318 in a similarily equiped truck. Well I havent seen it. Drove more than a few 94,95 Chevy Z71 packages with your amazing 350 and a magnum in a dodge truck would always outpull the chebby especially when towing a killer 20 foot stratos bass boat with 225 horse johnson. Of course the gearing for both trucks was 3.72 rearend. I far from an expert but I would assume that its because the dodges were newer tech at the time using MPI fuel injection versus chevy's ancient TBI.
As for rocles and his comment "the only people who owned a pre 93 Dodge Ram where dodge factory workers" thats a pretty funny statement. Again the statistics and sales figures are clouding your mind. I know of more than a few friends who work the deep bush of Northern Ontario and they always ran dodge half tons. Not great to look at but you could beat the crap out of them on a daily basis and they wouldnt wimper. As many people in Bush Camps joke, you can take a dodge 2wd almost anywhere a Chevy 4wd would go.
Getting tired of writing (thank god) but I will leave you with my idea of why dodge ram sales picked up after there major revision in the early 90's. A little something called "ergonomics" . Dodge changed the way pickups looked, brought them into the 90's. People want pleasing curves instead of retarded angles like chevy products today have. I have owned a few chevy's and while the drivetrains are good I and many others agree that the interiors are damn UGLY and cheap!.
So were there retired Dodge factory guys in "northern Ontario"? Where is "northern"? Above Toronto (ie:Barrie/Orillia) ?? Because North of that is a barren wasteland. Anyone that lives there deserves a Dodge.
Hey Slackjaw, before you spout off your mouth--how about looking up sales figures for Dodge pre-94 and try to give me a reason for it.
I can't wait to see what pipe dream you will think of next...
If someone doesn't like Chevy trucks...fine! I don't care, but the Tundra bashing topic was frozen as it should have been.
There is too much crap written on these postings!!!
rcoos
Just because you think it's stupid and others don't I suggest you go take your self to another forum.
One more thing, " can't we all just get along????"
and don't take it personal, we already got in trouble for attacking one another in froum # 2705
LOL
The Milk Man!!
Now, getting back to my original point! We have enough topics in this "Town Hall" already. I don't see why someone needed to create another "Chevy Truck" topic. The host weeded out a bunch of near duplicate topics only last month!!!
Like I stated before, I don't care if someone thinks that GM doesn't build good trucks! Their opinion is just as valid as mine! My point is, use one of the MANY chevy truck topic that are already here!!! A good example "Silverado XIII", why not go there?
rcoos
They really do have no clue as to what the hell they are saying.
you are right....if X percent is the average for problems...and GM sells 50 times more than Toys...then they would have 50 times more..by numbers..of problems.
I find these people amusing and well worth my effort to keep in touch....as to see just how dumb people really can be
Keep up the good entertainment guys!
- Tim
There isn't a sport around that doesn't have sponsorship of some kind. If you knew how much of a Driver's earnings went to pay for his crew, his cars, etc. etc. you would see that it is a business, just like anything else.
For you to blame high gas prices on Nascar is just plain ignorance. That gas is not free. Someone paid for it. Sponsors, etc. pay for it among other things so that we can have a spectator sport with our families.
I guess you don't like the Olympic games or Football, or Baseball either, huh?
Quit crying and go drive that Toyota you love so much. Lord knows "it" uses plenty of gas!
See ya in my rearview mirror.....:)
The "PWT" you refer to are the minority. I'm positive that if you go to any other sporting event, you'll witness some rogues. And what does it matter anyway? These people are spending their money on entertainment they and I seem fit.
As a veteran, I find your responses repugnant towards your own citizens. Does everyone need to accomadate your snobbish social outlook and standards? It is rather disgraceful that the military is accepting elitists such as yourself.
Gosh, what would your first impression of me be? A roofer in a work truck must be below your standards....
Rocles, I worked construction, still do for Habitat for Humanity, why would I have a low opinion of a roofer? BTW, I sense you guys just might be NASCAR fans....