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Toyota Echo Real World MPG

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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    Well I knew this would be my worst tank and it was. Many horrible hours stuck in Weds and Thurs Thanksgiving traffic, and a long weekend with much more city driving than usual for me. Still managed 395.7 on 9.05g for 43.7mpg. Hopefully that is as bad as it gets. Running ave 46.1 mpg.
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Did another stint of off-site commuting this week - 175 miles a day. And despite upping the speeds to 75 mph or so, I still managed 45+ mpg: 422 miles, 9.2 gallons. Almost 46 mpg, in fact.

    This car is a wonder. I am not usually one to keep cars very long, I just get the itch for something new every couple of years, and this one's 2-year anniversary comes up in about 6 weeks. But my plans for this one are gradually changing. I might keep it another year or two...oil should break $100/barrel any day now. My Matrix's best only comes in at about 37, maybe 38 mpg.

    Imagine what I could do if I slowed down a bit. dephinusorca, I want to match your gas mileage!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Ditch the itch!
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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    I've driven every car I've ever had until it fell apart. I usually can't stand buying cars--never bought a bad one I just like the familiar. Right now this is my favorite ever. No frills but I like the simplicity, economics. My only complaints are (1) no intermittent wipers drives me nuts on a daily basis. I'd gladly have paid whatever the option price on that was (2) have to be honest I think it's one funny-looking car. Then again, how often do you really see your car? For me, just long enough to unlock the door and climb in.
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    mrbwa1mrbwa1 Member Posts: 42
    dephinusorca,

    I remember reading on another forum about ECHOs that the intermittent wipers are a drop-in replacement. I can't remember exactly where, but try searching online. The basic idea is that the Newer Corollas and Esp the Rav4 and Matrix/Vibe wiper stalks have the same switch and mounting as the ECHO. I have been meaning to hit up the local junk yard (will have to wait for spring now) as I would like Variable Intermittent wipers instead of the single speeds.

    We have a local Pull-N-Save place where you take it off the car and switchgear is usually around $10, but I'm not sure if there will be any newer Toyotas there.

    I also have to agree that the ECHO looks a bit funny, but I think it boils down to functionality and Cost. The biggest issue is the proportions of components. The front and rear windows looks like shrunken units from a Camry, but the side windows are rather small. The headlights and taillights look like full sized units, but are set into a tiny (by proportions) trunk lid and hood. And there there's the tiny wheel wells and even smaller wheels, yet the front doors look like the are full sized for something like a Camry. Honestly, I'd rather have off-beat styling than something like my old '94 Mercury Sable what the same styling could be seen be simply checking the cars around you at every stoplight!
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    dogadderdogadder Member Posts: 1
    I am planning to buy an Echo primarily for the gas mileage, but I am having trouble finding the 4 door model (which I need) with a manual transmission, so I am wondering if you Echo owners can tell me what you are getting for mpg out of the automatics.

    Will it be worth it to wait, try to work with the somewhat difficult dealership that does have what I want 7 hrs away, or go for the well priced automatic 2 hours away?

    Thanks for any feedback you can give me.
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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Check out Craigslist all over the country till you find what you want. Make a deal, get a supersaver ticket. Fly in and drive home!
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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    mrbwa1 ,

    Thanks for the tip. I don't know how I would go about that, so maybe if I can't find some clear instructions on the internet I'll ask my mechanic, who is very reasonable, about doing what you suggest.

    dogadder , I think just judging from what I saw in these forums when researching that an auto might reduce mileage by 10%, although there is virtually no difference in the official rating--and individual driving style, I'm pretty confident, is most important. If the initial outlay for the manual at the dealership is much larger than for the auto (and I would believe it if it is, since the dealers here are selling echo's for what seem like insane prices to me) it could take years of saving 3-4mpg on your manual car to recoup it's extra cost, and may not be worth it.

    However, I would agree with Kneisl1 on looking for a deal, especially if you can just wait for the right car at the right price to come along. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to fly to one, because you might get there and find that it'd been sold, or was misrepresented, etc.

    Good luck.
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    mrbwa1mrbwa1 Member Posts: 42
    dephinusorca,

    I had the link on my home PC, so had to search for it, but here you go: http://www.echodrivers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11492&highlight=intermittent+w- - ipers

    I don't know how mechanically inclined you are, but it appears to be 2 screws and a couple of electrical connectors. The only downside that I see is mos of the Matrix/Vibes or RAV4s will probably have a rear wiper switch that will be useless on an ECHO sedan, but to me it would be work it (for variable int wipers).

    dogadder,

    I have an '01 Auto Sedan (w/ power steering). I drive about 6 miles all city to work and back, so it doesn't get fully warmed up. I have been getting about 30-32 MPG. when my wife was driving to work about 10 miles city/hwy mix, it would average about 35 MPG. On pure freeway trips, she will get between 35-41 MPG. 35MPG was loaded down with 3 people and a lot of luggage visit my wife's family. Speeds were near 80 MPH (Souther Idaho has 75 MPH speed limits... quite the excitement when merging in a loaded ECHO!) Nearer to home at 65-75MPH speeds, 49-41 MPG has been pretty much the standard. One thing I have noticed is that tire pressure makes a difference. I have a hard time getting over 38MPG with 32PSI (standard), so I try to run at 36-38 PSI. And as always, it pays to keep on top of Air filter and spark plug changes (I believe Toyota went to 100,000 mile plugs in the '02 model year, or partway through '01). The other thing to watch is that the ECHOs with A/C run A/C on the defrost cycle like a lot of newer cars. my wife like to leave the air selector on DEF and it can cost a few MPG as well.
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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Oh man am I going to pursue this wiper interval switch thing! Corolla, Matrix, and RAV4 eh? 2002-2006? Is that right?
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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    mrbwa1,

    Wow that's great. Thanks. I'll see if I can get the project started over Christmas.
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    mrbwa1mrbwa1 Member Posts: 42
    kneisl1,

    If you poke around that forum I linked, there are a few other threads that get into the specifics. I have been prowling on eBay, but have seen some switchgear with different designs than pictured. I think I will head to the pull-n-save in the spring and look for the switch. if they have one, I 'll go back to the parking lot and pop out the echo unit for comparison.
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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    1-800-765-7100 has the switch for $50. For a 2006 Corolla without foglights. Has varible intermittent feature. I ordered one and they were very quick so I think they have lot of 'em!
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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    Last tank went for 461.5mi on 9.84g for 46.9mpg. Now gone 3,104.7 mi on 67.133g making 46.25mpg average over six weeks. Not many cars only burn 67 gallons between recommended oil changes--good thing I didn't go with the Escalade.
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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    mileage took a bit of a hit: 457.6mi / 10.50g = 43.58 mpg. Took a trip to the mountains which wasn't great for the mpg, probably especially the hour and a half or two driving with snowchains. Running ave 45.88. Next tank try to get it back above 46, since this is the first dip below.
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    came in at a low 40.5 mpg. Low morning temps are beginning to take their toll. :-/

    I have actually taken to leaving the heat off in the morning until the little blue light goes out. There is quite a noticeable difference in the amount of time it takes to go out, depending on whether I have the heat on or not.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    tonight's fill-up: 8.0 gallons, 311 miles, that's only just shy of 39 mpg, a pretty lousy tank all in all....

    :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    No work or commute made for 3 weeks on one tank. 445 mi on 10.224 = 43.5 mpg. Lots of city and very hard driving but still a good average. May try to get a long trip in soon and see what that can do for the mileage.
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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    First tank under 40mpg, 39.01, probably 50/50 driving. The good and bad news though is that my vacation is over, so back to the regular commute.
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    was 40 mpg right on the nose, although with the car having been in the shop for two weeks, I kind of discounted it. I will need to fill up again some time in the next couple of days, so I am hoping that one will be better. :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    mrbwa1mrbwa1 Member Posts: 42
    39mpg... That's Nothing! The dead of winter has set in here; combined with my short 4 mile commute, gas mileage has taken a belly flop from the high dive. Last 2 tanks were 26mpg. ('01 Auto). 100% city driving. At lest she warm up extremely fast!
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I had another one right on the nose of 40 mpg tonight: 318 miles, 8.0 gallons (OK, 39.75, if you must! :-)).

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    My mileage is down to 37 mpg now that the winter gas is here. Lucky it hasnt been colder or it would be worse.
    A year ago I started saving all my gas reciepts. For a years driving (4800 miles) I spent $252. Gas ranged from $2.31 a gallon to $2.93.
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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    I'd take that in a heartbeat. I'm not sure that I've seen gas for $2.31 in five years, and I'm sure I've averaged over $3.00/gl in the last year.
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    rrhaneyrrhaney Member Posts: 1
    Have read posts regarding gas mileage and wonder if somethings off with my Echo. Bought a 2003 coupe a month ago, and the highest I've recorded is 32 mpg. Combination of short trips and highway, actually mostly highway. Car is an automatic, I live in Ct. Have noticed when the car is cold it seems to take a longer time to shift into a higher gear. Suggestions, observations???---Bob
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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Cold weather and winter fuel mix contribute to poorer mileage results. Try again in the spring. ECHOs dont have mechanical problems as a rule.
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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    Could be the cold--I think everyone notices the difference with that and I imagine CT has been pretty cold last month. I don't drive enough in the city to know my city mileage--but If I drive a weekend around town my gas guage drops fast. Also, I gather the autos are noticeably (10%?) less efficient. Finally, I think driving habits (quick acceleration, sudden stops particularly bad) is the biggest variable of all.

    Oh yeah...last tank 10.0 g and 415 mi, ave outside temp 30-40 degrees, prob 80% freeway.
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    my last tank, 40 mpg right on the nose again. 349 miles, 8.7 gallons. Had a long day the next day so filled up 50 miles before I otherwise normally would have.

    Average temp around here the last few weeks has been around 45, with freezing mornings pretty much every day (causing longer warm-up times when I head out to work) and a lot of rain, necessitating a lot of use of the defrost, which is A/C-linked in my car.

    So all in all, I figure I am doing pretty good, but I can't wait to get back to 41, 42 or more in the spring.

    rrhaney: the automatic Echos do get several points worse fuel economy than the sticks. I believe dephinusorca's is a stick like mine, so our numbers will naturally be higher. I think kneisl's is a stick too? I forget.

    If most of your trips are under 5 miles, and given the time of year, I think 32 mpg from an automatic is in the normal range. That was about its city range from the EPA, I think. The Yaris, which has essentially identical mpg ratings to the Echo before it, is rated only 29 city under the new ("more reliable") rating system for '08.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Yes mine is a 5 speed! No automatic for me! (not yet anyways)
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    dakedake Member Posts: 131
    The Echo computer doesn't allow the automatic to upshift until the engine's warmed up. If you notice the little blue thermometer that lights up on your dash when it's cold - the second that goes away it will shift higher. I've noticed the Yaris does the same thing.

    As for me, I have bigger tires and now in the winter I'm holding steady right at 30 in my '01 automatic. It should pick back up again in the warmer months. On the smaller tires and long highway trips I still managed 40 mpg. But even a little in town driving really knocks down the mileage on the auto.
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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Hmm maybe I should stay in a lower gear with my manual till the light goes out.
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Personally, I have never liked the way Toyota automatics rev up to like 4000 rpm or more when they are stone cold, just so as to warm the engine up faster. It's wearing on the engine to run at such high rpm when the oil isn't circulating properly yet and the rings haven't expanded into position. But that's just me.

    I find that the Echo warms up enough for the little blue light to go out even if you just drive normally for a couple of minutes. Now I must admit, I am mildly curious to know what temperature the coolant is at when the blue light goes out. I do wish it had a real temp gauge, but my first wish would still be for a tach...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    sschribersschriber Member Posts: 89
    First 3 tanks yielded 33, 30 and 34 mpg. I was getting 30 with my 2005 Chevy Maxx. Hope it gets better...
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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Winter fuel mix. Summer is coming...
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    only 39 mpg tonight...378 miles, 9.7 gallons. Warmer temps and the summer gas just can't come fast enough...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    hleeedhleeed Member Posts: 2
    just got a 2002 echo 4door auto .. love it but have a problem .. when i first got it i was getting 35mpg .. the air filter was very dirty (no light) .. i changed the filter and put on new hi end tires ... now for the last 5 fill ups i am only getting 22 mpg. (city) i am thinking maybe the computer was compensating for the clogged filter and now is in left field.. i tried different gas but same results. its my understanding that most cars today automatically tune themselves but maybe i am wrong .. it runs perfect (maybe thats a clue that its not running lean enough) .. i will try re setting the computer if i can figure out how .. i didn't know that 22 is very bad millage (i am used to 16mpg) until i saw this forum .. what a sweet well thought out little car this is .. wonder if anyone has tried the new 0w30 weight synthetic oil. the overhead interior light wont come on when the doors are opened .. i understand that this is a common problem.. the dash lights indicate an open door properly ..
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    hleeedhleeed Member Posts: 2
    higher rpm's for a cold engine means lots of oil circulating and lowered torque requirements ... if the trany shifted into hi gear too soon then engine lugging at low rpms greatly increases bearing forces while oil pump delivery is low. thats why the smart folks at toyota lock out the shift to high when cold. (lesser of the evils) ..
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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Owners manual recommends 5-30 in the ECHO. Maybe in winter 0-30 (maybenot!) Obey your owners manual!
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    highmiler650highmiler650 Member Posts: 75
    I wrote to Toyota Canada and they say 5W-20 is possible too!
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Just not if you live in LA, eh?!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    Warmer weather (40s-50s) and @90% freeway made for 464.2 on 9.65 (all before the gas light even came on). That's 48mpg.
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    one tonight: put in 8.9 gallons for 339 miles, that barely breaks 38 mpg. Maybe it's time for a tune-up...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I just saw a blurb on TV for the Honda Acccord. It said the city MPG for the Accord is 19 mpg!
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    That's for the V-6, I believe the 4-cylinder is rated at 21 city.

    And of course, that's under the new system. Using the same system, us folks with manual shift Echos would have rated only 30 or so in the city...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Thats completely insane. How could they make a car that gets 21 mpg with gas over $3 a gallon? Why would anyone buy it? You might as well buy a pickup truck!
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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    I've read that they do it because people who started buying accords 25 years ago are getting older and heavier and want an old person's car, so they have gradually morphed the accord into a buick and run out new lines of smaller cars for younger people, like the fit.

    I am plenty shocked, though, that cars overall get worse mpg than they did 25 years ago, although they weigh considerably more and have tons more horsepower. Since when did the average driver become a drag racer who needs 2-300hp for their commute? I spend a lot of time in the car and never need all 108 of the echo. My old car had less than 100 and in 9 years of driving it that was always enough. I hope we will get a new administration in soon that will dramatically raise the mpg standards.
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    kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    My 1974 VW Beetle was 48 hp. It was slow on hills. But I never gave it a thought. I remember it averageing 28 mpg. Most I ever got was 34 mpg. Not great for a 48 hp car! But a reliable easy to work on vehicle.
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    tonight's fill was 341 miles, 8.4 gallons, for a value of 40.5 mpg. :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    456.6 on 9.41 for 48.5mpg. Last four tanks made 46.25, 48.1, 46.1, & 48.5mpg, so I think my December and early January numbers were winter aberations and I should get my running average (currently 45.59) back above 46 soon.
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