Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

tenpin288

Just go away your car does not Qualify as a Large car.It doesn't belong on this forum,I'm sorry.

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but you sound as if you are mired in the days of tail fins and bullet bumpers. I used to argue about car size with my friends when we were little kids! You know the kind of arguments I mean... my dad drives a Ford and your dad drives a Chevy and so your dad's Chevy is junk because my dad likes Ford! :P

Anyway, I looked up your Charger and a number of other vehicles on the EPA website I referenced before and low and behold, the Charger has one of the smaller interiors at only 104 cubic feet passenger volume! The Azera's comes in at 107 cubic feet and has 17 cubic feet trunk volume. I couldn't find the trunk volume for the Charger on either the EPA site or the Dodge site.

The point here is that car classes are not determined by physical exterior measurements. There are too many variables due to styling choices that could falsely change a vehicle's classification so the EPA/government decided some time ago to use interior size to determine a vehicle's size class.

As to your assertion that the Azera is not a large car like your Charger, please do us all a favor and go to:

Find a Car

Once there, click on "Search by class" and then click on "EPA Size class". From there you can choose Large cars from the drop down box and see "ALL" vehicles classified by the EPA as LARGE!

Happy New Year!

tinydog1

With the warranty on the Azera, you don't need a large bank account. Chances are you WILL need it for a Chrysler.

chilliwack

You bought a Dodge, so you may be walking sooner than you think.

dodgeman07

The Azera has 124 cubic feet of total interior volume (includes cargo). Large cars are classified by the EPA as 120 cubic feet or more of total interior volume. Clearly the Azera IS a large car by recognized standards. The Dodge Charger has 121 feet of total interior volume. Smaller than the Azera, but still considered large.
Please let this one go - the Azera belongs here.

tinydog1

104 cubic feet on the Charger. WOW, even the Sonata has more interior volume at 105 cu.ft.

tinydog1

Styling is purely subjective. I think the Azera in one of the most beautiful cars I have ever seen. (My opinion) I think the Charger looks like a Mitsu Galant with big hips, awful (again My opinion)

tenpin288

I mean you have false info.I don't care what degree you have,you know nothing about the mrchanics of a car,or you would know a good one when you see it.Your wasting my time,and time you can't get back,buy what you want and I'll buy what I want Don't bother me.

Let's see. In my somewhat sheltered life (50+ years), I have rebuilt carbs, worked on FI and car electronics, overhauled engines (v8s, v6s, I4s), rebuilt transmissions, brake jobs, worked on racing engines, etc. I used to manage a local parts and service center so I think I have a some experience when it comes to cars, so I think you can change your assumption about my car knowledge. :P

Let's see how you spin that!

barnstormer64

The 500 way underpowered and did not like the feel of the CVT

The CVT (optional, and the easiest way to ensure getting it is to get the AWD version) is one of the reasons I got the 500.

Underpowered? Ha! I still blow the doors off Azeras, Chargers, 300's, Avalons, and even Corvettes all the time. It ain't the car, it's the driver.

If you can't make a 500 do what you need to do, I submit that you either live in an area full of Mario Andretti's, or you just don't know how to drive.

Maybe you'll like the car better when it comes out (next year?) with the 3.5L V6. But, I don't think it'll be available with the CVT, then.

I can't understand people not liking the CVT . . it's the best kind of automatic transmission there is.

barnstormer64

This is the Azera groups and discussions board after all.

Actually, I get here via the Ford Five Hundred forum.

barnstormer64

I couldn't find the trunk volume for the Charger on either the EPA site or the Dodge site.

That's because it's so small that they didn't think it had one. :P

barnstormer64

Are you sure the 500 can't take a Porsche or a Ferrari?

Haven't seen any Ferraris on the road at the same time that I'm driving.

I have, however, blown past several Porsche's.

If you have a need to get around the RACERS (drivers, not cars) on the freeway, then the 500 isn't for you. But if you only need to get past the vast majority of typical drivers (regardless of the car they drive), then the 500 is fully capable.

All I want/need to do is get somewhere quickly, by getting around the average person who wants to do the speed limit or 5 to 10 mph over the speed limit.

If by speeding up to pass somebody (who has a faster car) all I accomplish is getting him to speed up (trying to race me), I've accomplished my goal. Doesn't matter if he beats me or not.

dodgeman07

Truck volume for the Dodge Charger is rounded to 16 cubic feet. This is one of the smaller cargo volumes found in a Large sedan, but still plenty big for most of us.

pahefner01

Thank you Pat. I haven't visited this thread in a few days and I can't believe all of the posts and the nature of some of them. Happy New Year to all. Perhaps we can all just agree that one person's favorite large car may not be someone else's favorite large car and enjoy the car we are driving. I don't go to discussion boards other than Jeep Cherokee or Hyundai Azera since I don't own any other cars. Perhaps it would be wise for everyone to do that.
I am very impressed with my 06 Azera Limited with the Ultimate Package and come here looking for information or providing information about it.

tenpin288

A nice FAMILY sedan as its called by EPA

By EPA market class, yes it is a family car. However, by EPA size class, it is a LARGE car, just like the other cars in this comparison. Please check the EPA website referenced earlier in this thread and look under the EPA SIZE CLASS listings.

barnstormer64

ou can't be serious,that the dog 500 would beat My Charger and the 300.And a Corvette?

What I said was that I've blown by these cars on the freeway (and the side streets) with my 500.

I don't find the 500 to be "underpowered" at all. But I suppose that depends on what one's defintion is for underpowered.

If you have to beat the best drag racers every day, in an actual drag race, then I submit that every car in this discussion is underpowered.

But can I merge safely even on somewhat short entrance ramps in high-speed traffic? Yes. Can I pass up those who get in my way safely? Yes. Just what IS is that you couldn't do in a Ford Five Hundred (esp with the CVT) that you think you need to do?

joe97

STOP ARGUING NONSENSE, you are really not helping your cause...the more you try to defend your beloved Charger, the more it makes you look bad...

Here is the dummy guide for your reference:

Click on the link below from EPA. Remember, we are not trying to trick you...it's a large car per EPA:

1) http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2001cartablef.jsp?id=23293 - this is a direct link

2)Scroll down to the Size Class and you will see the following:

Size Class Large Cars

Move on before you embarrass yourself even further...

Next subject...

gamleged

The EPA also places the Hyundai Sonata in the "large car" category. [evil grin icon]

Maybe people are talking past each other, so here's the official (governmental) scoop. Now, if you wish to disagree with Uncle Sam on this matter, feel free to choose whatever standard you wish to choose, but realize that agreement becomes impossible with a multitude of differing standards.

----------

"How are vehicle size classes defined?"

The size class for cars is determined by measuring the interior passenger and cargo volumes as described below. The size class for trucks is defined by the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), which is the weight of the vehicle and its carrying capacity. Fuel economy regulations do not apply to heavy-duty vehicles having a GVWR greater than 8,500 pounds. These models do not have fuel economy labels in the window and are not included in this guide. See Which Vehicles Are Tested for more information on these vehicles.

CARS
Class Passenger & Cargo Volume (Cu. Ft.)
Two-Seaters Any (cars designed to seat only two adults)
Sedans
Large 120 or more

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml#sizeclasses

Discuss...

texases

Go to the MS CarPoint site, pull up any of these cars (Azera included) and they have 107 +- 1 CF of interior space, so Azera belongs.

chilliwack

I realized after my post that it is a common forum. I officially retract my statement.

barnstormer64

I realized after my post that it is a common forum. I officially retract my statement.

Oh, come on . . we should follow precedent and argue about it for several pages.

pahefner01

Chrysler has certainly had their share of lemons :lemon: and continues to do so. I owned a K car that ate voltage regulators. I owned a Chrysler Concorde that ate the transmission at 50 thousand miles. My 99 Jeep Cherokee, produced by Chrysler has had both front power windows fail, a common occurence, I have four relatives that own Cherokees and Grand Cherokees and all have had power windows fail. My Cherokee ac evaporator had to replaced at 45 thousand miles. If you love Mopars then why not post on the Chrysler forum. This is the Hyundai Azera forum. What does Chrysler have to do with it? Does knocking Hyundai make you feel better about Mopars? Their minivans have had severe and persistent transmission failures that have been concealed. If you like Mopars then please buy them and post your thoughts on the Chrysler forum. Please!

batista

Chrysler has certainly had their share of lemons and continues to do so. I owned a K car that ate voltage regulators

The K car is 20 years old. The big 3 were producing horrible cars in the 80's.

I owned a Chrysler Concorde that ate the transmission at 50 thousand miles.

That's not that shocking. I have read some cars with transmission problems that start at less than 30 thousand miles.
Honda Accord from 00-02 and the new 07 Camry.

plekto

And guess who makes the most reliable transmissions?

Yep. GM. Old, simple, stodgy designs, but without a doubt the most reliable. Me - I'll take 4 speeds and reliable, plus $1600 to repair versus 5-6 speeds and $3000+ to repair. That's what it used to cost my friend to replace the transmission in his Porsche. And now Lexus and Camry owners somehow have accepted this as a "normal" cost.

Wow, times have changed.

joe131

Hahaha!
Pretty cool.
The Hyundai Azera AND the lesser Sonata
are BOTH LARGER than the little Dodge Charger.

w9cw

To throw a statistical clinker into "reliable transmission" discussion, we own a 1994 Chrysler product with over 161K miles and still on the original 4-speed electronically-controlled transmission. Two year or 24K ATF changes and conservative driving techniques, plus a lot of luck, have kept us out of harms way with this transmission.

louiswei

I'll take the new technology and trust Toyota/Lexus to get it fixed for free within the warranty if there is anything wrong with it. I normally don't keep the car past its warranty anyway.

So far the brand-spanking-new 6-speed on my Lexus is working like day one and already have 11,000 miles on it.

pat

Seems like some of you have forgotten the spirit of the season. Let's take a breather. I'll clean up a little later.

Happy new year.

:sick:

pat

I've scrubbed and mopped the place the best I could - might have missed a little mess here or there, but I've been working hard! - so let's try this again. We've got a clean, shiny place in which to bring in the new year!

We're here talking about large sedans which are at the under $30k price point, give or take a bit. The sedans primarily under discussion are listed at the top of the page. Others may qualify as well.

Anyone who feels the sedans listed are inappropriate is free to create a new discussion meeting whatever criteria he/she finds appropriate. We will no longer be arguing about whether one of the listed vehicles belongs nor will we be insulting other participants.

In the future, I would mightily appreciate an email when things are going poorly. That would be a lot more helpful than continuing to add fuel to the fire, if ya know what I mean.

Thanks, I appreciate everyone's cooperation going forward.

hardhawk

In this new year I am just thankful that we have so many large sedans that are worth talking about. It was not that long ago when there were not very many sedans that were worthy of much positive discussion. It is a great time to be a driver with so many good choices available to us. I am also thankful for forums like this. While people will never agree on everything, I feel that I learn from most of the comments. Thanks to all for that and best wishes for another great year at the forums!

captain2

2 things I think the traditional Detroit folks have always been pretty good at, big ole V8s and auto trannies, dating all the way back into the 40s I believe and Cadillac. But I've got news for you - as GM gets with the program and starts to do its own 'intelligent' multiple (5-8)speed electronic trannies, then not only will those cost factors that you are so fond of citing change but so will the reliabilities. The bottom line - if you really want one of these simpler 30 year old designs, you had better get them while they are still around. The 5 and 6 speeds in things like CTS/STS/Aura XR, I assure you, are about the same to fix as what's in a Toyota (and most other truly contemporary cars), how long do you think it will be before this 'progress' filters down to your treasured Buicks. Since those old 4 speeds will inevitably become a thing of the past, I think it is you that will have to adjust to 3 grand tranny repair bills - a consequence of technical advances, mandated fuel efficiencies, and progress in general?

gamleged

Got:

Error 500--Internal Server Error
From RFC 2068 Hypertext Transfer Protocol -- HTTP/1.1:
10.5.1 500 Internal Server Error
The server encountered an unexpected condition which prevented it from fulfilling the request.

:surprise:

bobwiley

Pat--thanks for administering the Forum and keeping us on track!! We sometimes get too carried way in our passionate responses! Happy New Year!
Bob

plekto

But I've got news for you - as GM gets with the program and starts to do its own 'intelligent' multiple (5-8)speed electronic trannies, then not only will those cost factors that you are so fond of citing change but so will the reliabilities. The bottom line - if you really want one of these simpler 30 year old designs, you had better get them while they are still around.

Gotta beat the neighbors, afterall. Poor GM - falling for it like the rest in thinking that the number of speeds or HP matters as opposed to reliability, which will eventually save(or not if they ignore it) them.

Yeah - next fall, I'm looking seriously at a Lucerne CXS. Why? Because for $16K, I can get a $36K car two years old that is a tank. Bulletproof engine and transmission, great handling for its size, and well - loads better than a Civic.

But I have to make my 4Runner last until then. Heh.

srt8u

Chrysler 300 is the best choice, plus tons of aftermarket products out there.

pat

I'm not sure what you mean or did. All you have to do is email me at pat AT edmunds.com. Are you saying your email client gave you that error?

pat

Happy New Year to you also - and your welcome.

captain2

well maybe you would like to share with us why? As near as I can tell about the only thing it has going for it is the better balance associated with RWD. Feels like you sitting in a DEEP bathtub, limited outward visibility, subpar fit/finish and reliability (with the V8), a marginally competitive V6 (the 3.5), and a generally lower standard level of amenties at about any given price level. Don't get me wrong, however, the 300 (and cars like it) is exactly what 'Detroit' ought to be doing, big engines and RWD something they have some experience in and heaven knows that the 300 has been a successful model for Chrysler even if I don't understand why...

gamleged

The three links available on each post, "Bookmark | Reply | E-mail Msg" is what I tried to use. "Reply" works, I'm using it now, but "E-mail Msg" still gives the same error. As to what originates the error, I'm clueless!...

captain2

a small point of contention - the 2 year old used Lucerne while it may be a good deal for 16k never was and nor will they ever be - a 36k car. Part of the reason why you can get one used so cheap - Buicks, in particular, have generally absurd price tags designed to be discounted steeply. My 2 year old Avalon which did cost me $30k, is still worth somewhere in the 20s - amazing how that works isn't it?

pat

You can report that either through the Help link at the very bottom of this page or in the Software discussion. But to contact a host, just send an email the way you would email anyone instead of using that link.

plekto

I personally won't care that much. Was $30whatever and the fact that it is worth $16K after two years - no biggie, either. I buy a certified car for $16K and well, there's not a lot to depreciate on it, either, like a typical import.

Of course, we're talking about a year or two older Buick to equal a new import, but honestly, it's not like the Lucerne will fall apart in 24 months - it's not a Yugo, afterall. :P

captain2

there is no doubt that any car is a better deal (on whatever basis you choose to evaluate it) after somebody else has taken the depreciation hit on it especially in the first couple of years or so. This even applies to what you are calling 'imports'. If it is really important to you to say something like 'I got a 'expensive' car for relatively nothing' - buy a used Cadillac or a Lincoln!

louiswei

Hyundai Azera's consumer rating on top of the page? Why is it the only one that's not showing anything?

allmet33

What are you talking about...I see it on there...it's listed at 9.7 in the little green dot!!!

The 2006 got an 8.3 for the Editor's rating and a 9.4 for the Consumer Rating.

2007 Hyundai Azera page

joe131

Whether an owner of any car suffers a "depreciation hit" depends on what he paid for it and what he sells it for. Sure, you can look at average price paid or MSRP or even invoice prices, but only the amounts you paid when buying and got when selling count.
There are super deals some people get when buying and/or selling. So, for you (if you are one of them), the depreciation hit may be very small or non-existent.

joe131

I think he and I refer to THIS page and the lack of an Azera rating on it.
Oh, I see the 9.7 for the Azera on the page you referred to. How embarrassing that might be to all the other cars listed, or maybe their owners?

allmet33

Yeah...I saw it after the fact. Imagine that...the Azera having a higher consumer rating than the others! Who would have guessed? :P

louiswei

And guess which one has the lowest...

allmet33

Well...there's a particular someone in this forum that would find a way to deny that as being the case. LOL

captain2

not surprising at all - new car buyers are likely going to remain happier with something they perceive to have saved some money on, especially when what they bought is seemingly holding up its end of the bargain.