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overall I think it can be said that GM does have the right pieces - the new G8 RWD Aussie 'Holden' is scheduled for early 08 intro with the 3.6 V6 as its std engine and a big 360hp 6 liter V8 as optional - should give that upcoming Genesis a run for its money. In V6 form it may be closer to competitive in terms of both power and FE with many of the other cars in this group depending on its size and weight. Why this is scheduled to be a 'Pontiac' intro and not a Buick is beyond me - Buick seem to be the more viable brand name at this point
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In this Dayton area I'd say 6:1 for the 3800 V6. I believe many of the CXS/CXL Northstar models are sold to GM retirees and workers at discount because they are in stock, just based on intuition observing who's driving.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Want a Lexus GS? One engine. Want a S500? Correct - no options on what engine you get. 911? Turbo or non turbo?Manual of course being the only real option unless you actually custom order automatic. Same engine, in any case.
The Lucerne from what I remember is close to 50% rental(over 40% IIRC) and fleet sales(for its admittedly small numbers, mind you). Almost all of those being the base version. No options, really, just leather and the V6. The picture is even worse for the LaCrosse, with an enormous number of rentals.
What GM's managers don't get is that if a model is offered with numerous engines and trim levels, the lowest priced option always sets the resale price for the entire line. You want a used Lucerne? The CXS is the CL plus a couple of thousand for the V8.(2 years old/18-20K) It's also usually what gets reviewed as well, and is what people get if they get one as a rental. All negatives to the resale value and image.
Toyota got it with Lexus. Would you like sunroof and/or navigation with that? That's it. Rental companies avoid them like the plague, since it's not a good car to run as a rental(unless you up your fleet age to 5-6 years before retiring them, which nobody does), and people buy them purely because they want one and can afford to spend a bit more.
Nearly 0 fleet sales, high resale values, stellar image, and easy to make and sell(image and less options which means less tooling at the factory and a more streamlined process).
Thats not to say that even Lexus doesn't fall into the GM trap as well, from time to time. The IS250 is a good example. BMW also does this with their base 3 and 5 series, which should just be removed in favor of the bigger engine. Mercedes also has gotten into this habit, unfortunately, in their models. Though in the case of the new C class I can see why - the base model is a nice budget car that's a step up from a VW or a Honda.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Bad example on the GS (3.5 V6 and 4.3 V8 are available). However, I see your point.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
A repair bill??? Awwwww...phooey, it's covered for 5 years / 100K miles. If anything goes wrong with it in that time, the bill will be $0 compared to your $1800. In most cases, if you take care of the preventive maintenance such as getting the transmission power flushed and refilled...you shouldn't have any problems at all.
The thing is, that is the V8 was the ONLY option, AND they priced it a bit lower, say 32K with no incentives *ever*, it would suddenly compete directly with the Avalon.
I guess it's a different philospohy. A "buy our car or don't, we're not making a cheap version" mentality. I do see this in the CTS, though, so maybe someone is listening a little bit.
If you dropped fleet sales from Buick, you'd get about a 60/40 split. Considering that the V8 is a special order option on the CXL and normal on the CXS, the trend of course is towards the bigger engine if it's offered. Not surprising, actually, given American's love of power and space. That keeps that from being over 50% is it being a special order option on the CXL and 35K for the CXS. $35K is just too much money in Buick's demographic's minds'. $30K and standard on the CXL... You'd see it dominate its segment.
Oh - about the transmission.(other post's response) - the Buick is also covered for 100K as well. The real trick is what it does to resale value. Who wants to buy a car with a $4000 transmission and 80-120K on it? I've seena lot of Toyotas lately for silly low prices when they hit 100K. Age isn't the big deal - it's how close to needing a new transmission it is, because it's an enormous potential expense the second it's out of warranty.
I agree, they just can't seem to get them all together in the right vehicle. Enclave triplets aside.
I think the G8 is really suposed to be a "performance" vehicle I guess that is why Pontiac is getting it first.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
WHY- the Northstar has really nothing to recommend it(other than being a better choice than the 3.8 - uses more fuel, uses more expensive fuel, and still yields a slower ride than several of the V6 engined cars in this group - the Avalon, Maxima, the Azera, Kia , the Taurus (?) etc. and some of these vehicles well under that 30k
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
4800+RPM is moot when we're talking 2000-2500rpm around tow. Not to mention 4800rpm in an Avalon is what - 50mph in 2nd gear? It may be rated for 250+HP, but you're lucky if you get 150hp around town with normal driving. That's why a big V8 is exactly what people want in a big car.
And, there's a lot of people what equate luxury with a V8. Witness how almost every Cadillac is seen as a joke unless it offers a V8. Or a SUV. Yep - has to offer a V8. BMW and Mercedes also know this and offer a V8 option, as does Lexus now. It has to have loads of low end torque and say "I'm so wealthy who cares what my mileage is?"
The 4.6L gets 275 hp at 5,200 RPM. The bad part is that there are several sedans that will outrun this V8 due to lighter weight and much better gearing. Those same sedans can also get 5MPG better than this same V8, not to mention do better than the 3800!
For example... the Lucerne weighs 3764 lbs and has a 4-speed transmission, getting 15 MPG city. The Avalon weighs 3495 lbs, has a 6-speed transmission, and gets 19 MPG city, all while being within 7 horsies of the 1.1 liter larger Buick V8.
The 197 hp 4-sp Lucerne gets 16/25; the 260 hp 6-sp Taurus gets 18/28; the 268 hp 6-sp Avalon gets 19/28.
Let's face it, the Buick is a decent automobile. GM made the best they could with the hand the bean-counters dealt them. But they are behind in the powertrain department.
EXACTLY and the 'sad' part of this is that the Northstar is likely the best engine out of GM in a number of years - the new 3.6 is in the running as well, in some respects representing a 'downsized' Northstar.
Unfortunately, there is no extra capacity for the 3.6L, so they have to use other engines that are less competitive.
Ford faced a similar problem with their new, competitive, 3.5L engine. All the vehicles that would benefit from it can't necessarily get it.
With what GM is willing to do with it to satisfy Big Brother the Bean Counter, is another story.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It uses regular...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The SRT8 has 425HP not 400 and not sure why you say "Niagara Falls" for the GM 6.0L V8? If its a leaker like the GM pushrod (3.1,3.4,3.8) V6's I haven't heard anything.
No, but I think that Toyota could pull off the 30 or so extra ponies from the IS's version of the 2GR. That would be sweet in the Avalon Touring for '09!
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
In this age of gas prices rising and concern for the environment, here we are again.... and I love it! Our 300C has about all wifey and I need, but that SRT8 or that G8 sound nice!
days of high volume Holley carbs, Edelbrock manifolds, on big block V8s. 5 or 6 mpg might have been good in those days but,of course, gas was .20/gal and had lead in it - just showing my age.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
1. Point the car straight
2. Release your hands from the steering wheel
3. Step hard (in hard I meant really step on it instantly, not gradually, like you are going to crush a can)
If there are any movement in the steering wheel then the car has torque steer. Repeat those steps in a RWD car then you'll see the difference.
When the Acura TL-S came out packing 280+ HP in a FWD setup, Acura promised through some technique that the torque steer has been limited almost to none. Due to the curiosity I went to test drive the TL-S. My first hand experience showed that the torque steer is far from almost to none but it is not as bad as one would think with a 280+ HP FWD car.
However, I don't think to drop the 2GR-FSE in the Avalon will be too difficult though, since Toyota already offers the TRD Aurion (A 330HP Camry) in Australia. The only down side is the driver will have to live with some excessive torque steer.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I believe that AWD systems can be useful...if used correctly. I think that all vehicles should have a button that allows the driver to turn it off or on as the need presents itself. In all my years of driving here in the DC metro area, there hasn't been any snowfall that I haven't been able to get through with a FWD vehicle...safely.
FWD drive vehicles (I think )are agreed to offer superior traction (Over RWD)on bad roads if only because that 60%+ of your Azera's wght, for example, is over the drive wheels. Given that your Azera (or my Avalon) drives just fine on most snow covered/icy roads, exactly how many times per year do you have to drive in those conditions that are too bad to handle? Well, unless you live in Northern NE, upstate NY, and/or the mountain states (in terms of population densities very liKely you don't) the number of times annually that the vast majority of us could ever need these AWD/4wd systems is certainly a number that can be counted on one hand annually ( or maybe even never).
Remember a discussion with a gentleman from NYC, he contended he had to have his AWD for that one good 10 inch snowstorm every year because he couldn't get out of his apparently partially underground parking garage. This kind of thing strikes me rather ridiculous to spend the extra money on the AWD - not to mention donating a bunch more money at thw gas pumps - why, to get out of a garage once a year!.
Auto marketing mavens seem to understand that the American car buyer doesn't seem to know that these systems have very limited real life usefulness and will buy anything that can even be construed to improve 'safety'. To those folks that do live in northern NH (Subaru is the car of choice up there for a reason) and several other locations I can think of where AWD (or even better 4wd) is really needed, I apologize - but 95% of us don't need it, rarely if ever use it and, unfortunately for us, we buy it anyway.
That is why when I was shopping for my mother's Highlander it was FWD only. FWD combined with the extra ground clearance will make it go through anything we get here in Jersey.
IMO AWD is just another gimmick among car makers. Especially the FWD biased versions like on the TaurHundred.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I do agree that ground clearance is very important. I remember hitting a rock, that other cars went over without any issues. Low clearance is the price that you pay for getting a performance sedan.
My opinion of AWD is same as for VDC. If you need it once in your life time it will not hurt you much. Even though I used it(VDC) only once in my Maxima, it saved me. Cost of the option(few hundred) vs thousands in repairs and higher insurance fees. AWD should be optional for all vehicles and let the buyer decide if he needs it.