Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

16667697172134

Comments

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    "The Avalon was based on the earlier Camry"

    The '05+ Avalons are not based on the earlier Camrys. That was Yota's first vehicle on the new platform with the 2GR motor. Then the '07+ Camrys got it, shortened of course and the '08 Highlander is now on it too. I think the only vehicles on the older frames are the Solara and Sienna.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • djm2djm2 Member Posts: 712
    Good Morning jaymagic:
    I do an extensive amount of driving each year. My 2007 XLE V6 Camry will be one year old in January, and I will have somewhere between 22,000 and 25,000 miles on this vehicle. I will keep this vehicle for three years, and at that time it will have about 75,000 miles. This is why I purchased a Toyota extended warranty. I want the vehicle to be completely covered for major repairs while I am on the road.(Routine maintenance is done by the selling dealer, and I keep photo-copies of all repair orders in the car should a warranty issue develop while I am "on-the-road".)
    The purchase price of the vehicle is not my concern, but the resale value is very important to me. My vehicle is serviced every 2,500 miles, so as such, it is in very good condition when it comes times to trade it in for the next vehicle. I looked the Hyundai and the Kia vehicles, but in my part of the country most Hyundai & Kia stores, (with a very few exceptions), are part of a Chrysler Dealership. Since I drive all over the eastern United States, I am not sure of the quality of service that I could get "on-the-road" if a warrnty issue develops. Chrysler dealers have "all-to-do" to service their vehicles, let alone a second line of vehicles! Yes,I love the styling of a Chrysler vehicle, and I would love to own one, but their repair record, their quality, their dealer network, their warranty administration and their customer relations skills leaves much to be desired! Purchasing a Kia or a Hyundai, that is affiliated with a Chrysler Dealership, would be putting myself into this negative issue at the service desk! Yes, when you purchase a vehicle, you are also entering into a relationship with the dealer for a period of time. I walked out of two (2) Toyota dealerships, before purchasing my Camry, because I didn't like the "body language of the sales staff," or the manner in which the customers were treated at the service desk! When I purchase a new vehicle I consider everything.
    Best regards. ---- Dwayne :shades: ;):)
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    Wrong - kind of. Remember that the Avalon preceeded the Camry by 2 years and was the first of the 2GR engine (in the entire Toyota/Lexus line), and rides on a longer wheelbase than either the Camry or the ES which do ride on identical chassis. The 05+ Avalon was totally new and shares nothing with an 04 Camry - if anything the 07 Camry owes its (downsized) existence to the Avalon - the opposite of the way it had been historically (2004 and earlier).
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    The purchase price of the vehicle is not my concern, but the resale value is very important to me
    As it should be to us all - sounds like folks should be lined up for miles just to get at one of your 'used' cars - trading them off at 75k and maintaining them the way you do. ;) However, the number that really should concern you is the gross dollar difference between the purchase price and the expected resale value. Since the Toyota will cost more initially it will naturally have more value at 75k, the Azera can cost less and should also be worth less later. The differences between those numbers is really what determines value (and cost to own). Remember to add the cost of the 'bumper-to-bumper' warranties on the prices of both cars as well - if having that extra 'peace of mind' is worth it to you.
    And yep a common compliant I hear about Toyota (and Honda) dealers is their 'let me do a favor and sell you a car' attitude and FTM a general lack of good service at Hyundai dealers. Hyundai dealerships being associated in any way with Chrysler dealers may not be a good thing even over the next 3 years.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Since you drive half of the US, you would know this whole "Chrysler/Hyundai/Kia" is not a trend. Hardly, actually. The setup of the dealer network, for the most part, is entirely up to the dealers themselves. FWIW, there is a dealer I recently assessed, with Saab, Buick, and Hyundai on the same lot.

    Now can we get back to LARGE sedan discussion?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hi Dwayne. The Camry and the Optima are being discussed in the Midsize Sedans discussion. See you over there!
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    I also have over 20K on my 07 Azera, and will have about 22 by the time it is one year old (21st -I think- of this month). I understand the concern about getting a car fixed, if you are doing a lot of traveling. Even if the car is rated, or known as highly reliable, stuff still happens to us all. And, since I am as, or more skeptical of a Chysler's reliability, than many are of Hyundai's, I can also understand the concern about a local Chrysler dealer who happens to sell Hyundai's. In my part of the country, I am not really aware of any Chrysler dealers who also carry Hyundai, except mega dealers who have a dealership for virtually every brand (including Hyundai). BUT, I also have found my "Hyundai only" dealer to be very responsive to my needs, even if not extremely knowledgeable when the model first appeared.

    Having had an 02 350XG before the Azera, I was concerned about the service network as well, when I bought it. It had about 75+K on it when I finally traded it in on the Azzy (along with cash from an 00 Avalon XLS, which I sold). What I found, at least in the Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, and Wyoming areas, were a surprising number of dealers who handle Hyundai's in smaller cities. I know in Colorado, when I was looking for an Azera, I contacted dealers in Ft. Collins, Greeley, Pueblo, and Cheyenne Wyo., as well as several in the Denver area. So, while there are CLEARLY way more domestic and Toyota dealers around the country, I have not run into any problem finding a dealer for service, although the most I have ever needed was an oil change or filter when I was out of town. So, Hyundai service and support has never been a problem for me since I got my first one in 02.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    2005 Full-Size Sedan Comparison Test
    First Place: 2005 Toyota Avalon
    By Erin Riches, Senior Content Editor , Edmunds.com
    Date posted: 03-28-2005
    ...
    Discreetly Fast
    Redesigned from the ground up, the Avalon now rides on a stretched version of the current Camry platform.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    even if not extremely knowledgeable when the model first appeared.
    funny you should mention that - had the same problem with my Avalon in 05 - whether it be wiper blades, oil filters, oil capacities etc. the dealer had evidently had no 'training' on the car. Wonder why they do that, both the Avalon and the Azera are the flagships of their respective brands - you would think they would make some effort. :cry:
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    wrap your head arounde this - this is WRONG also - look up the specs.. Maybe Erin whatever her name is, needs to do a little more research instead of regurgitating what had been true the previous 10 years or so.
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    Maybe they figure Azera and Avalon owners are so old, we will die before we need to buy another car. ;)

    Funny you mentioned that issue with Avalon service. I had really forgotten that I had similar initial problems with service writers on the 00 Avalon XLS when new (it was the first year of that generation's model). I ended up switching to a different dealer. LOL, so I know how some Azzy owners who had to struggle with a dealer must have felt. Although, with Azera's now almost three years old, I suspect that the only signficant dealer service problems are warranty disputes, where the dealer doesn't want to support the customer. I imagine the days of trying to figure out how to program lock/unlock issues, and getting immobilizer codes are past.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    but your 00 XLS really was a 'gussied up' Camry - and therefore should not have caused the dealer any problems?
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    If you don't care about the initial price and want a high resale value, I would suggest a Rolls. They have a very good resale to initial price ratio. :P
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    I could only hope. Nope, it had the VSC, traction control, and more that the Camry didn't have (and by the way, it was a great car to have and own). The dealer had no clue on a light in the visor that malfunctioned from day one and an initial memory seat problem. Actually ended up at a Lexus dealer to get the memory seat issue resolved.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    always thought that BMW had this resale percentage category wired - just don't look at in terms of gross dollars 'lost' you might found out they are as expensive to drive as they are to buy!
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    LOL, I just figure if initial cost is no issue, why is he thinking Camry????
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    or FTM the Sonata, if he wants to compare cost differences because there sure as heck is no a whole lot of size difference.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The purchase price of the vehicle is not my concern, but the resale value is very important to me. My vehicle is serviced every 2,500 miles

    Its your money, but personally, my opinion is that you're wasting it by getting it serviced TOO often. That's about once every 4 weeks on a 25k mile/yr routine, right?

    Why not go by what TOYOTA says to do? Their engineers probably have a decent idea of the service interval. At bare minimum I'd go in at 5,000 miles or 6 months; my guess is the owner's manual says somewhere between 7,500 miles and 10,000 miles.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    agree - think that is what his dealer would tell him too - if the dealer is honest.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Ha, you kidding? I doubt a dealer's gonna tell him to quit coming and paying them money! :)

    Even after Honda starting implementing the maintenance minder into all its vehicles, my dealership (which is Honda-only) still puts the 3,000 mile sticker on the windshield. I've started asking that they not put one in. After all, I go about 7,000 miles before my maintenance minder reaches 15%.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Money must be no object for you if you're servicing your vehicle unnecessarily every 2500 miles.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    well, we don't know the man be a cab driver in NYC. 25k/year there would be some hard miles!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    25k/year seems like would be more highway miles (as was my grandmother's case). She drove the beltway to work everyday (70MPH, 34 miles one way). 120k miles in less than 6 years. In fact, the original front disc brakes lasted until I replaced them at 131,000 miles. The original rear shoes are still on there at 175k.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Money must be no object for you if you're servicing your vehicle unnecessarily every 2500 miles.

    Well, djm2 has been having this same conversation over in the discussions about the Camry - and that's where it belongs. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Anybody in here actually driving the cars regularly? If so, report your mileage here!

    Taurus/Sable MPG Forum

    I'm helping someone consider this vehicle for purchase and would like some feedback on it. Thanks folks!

    --TheGrad :)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Good job on the link! ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I finally got it right (without linking to a particular post. I remembered for a change!
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    it would seem to me that the one poster reporting 22 mpg (60% highway ) and 27 mpg (highway) is about right for that particular car and likely a tad better than the same car with the smaller 3.0 engine. In effect a creditable job by Ford, and also right in the same neighborhood as most of the other cars in this group. HP and FE are not contradictions, on the contrary they seem to happen together.
    IMPO, I think that you will find the engine overall to be in the same category as Hyundia's in terms of smoothness and refinement, but still short of those V6s offered by the Japan 3 - this based on a test drive I did in an Edge - not in a Taurus. That said, it is entirely possible with the 260HP (in the heavier Edge) to extract some rather spirited performance without really pushing the engine to the point that it begins to sound and feel strained (5000 rpm or so).
    Overall, I believe that Ford may finally have a winner after some misfires, the 500/Taurus always was an intelligently designed space ship and now it has a Hyundai type price tag to go with it. I hope that Ford does its best to keep the car away from Hertz (aren't Hertz and Taurus one in the same?) and fleets - Ford may make some money and Taurus buyers would likely see resale values hold a bit better - a win-win situation.
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Member Posts: 1,190
    RE:3506
    If one is interested in resale value after a couple of years, stay away from Hyundai.
    Their products are best suited to long term buyers or lease holders
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    If one is interested in resale value after a couple of years, stay away from Hyundai.
    and, to be fair, the 'US' brands as well. I believe that Ford, GM and/or Chrysler are discounting their products every bit as steeply as Hyundai/Kia, thereby undermining any hope a shorter term owner might ever have of recovering a 'fair' trade in value. Remember that the primary reason why the Avalon, for example, is so valuable as a used car is that they are relatively expensive new and are not discounted initially to the degree that the others are.
  • xtecxtec Member Posts: 354
    I checked out Kelly Blue Book to check out you theory.This is what I found. I checked on trade in value for a 2006 Chrysler 300c and compared it to a 2006 Avalon Limited.This is with standard equipment.The 300C was 26275,the Avalon was 26050.I compared my Charger to the Azera and the Charger was more then the Azera.Chrysler seems to have the best trade in value.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Which Charger did you compare to the Azera?
  • xtecxtec Member Posts: 354
    I compared the Azera Limited to the Charger R/T.I used my options.The R/T was 29530 to the Azera 25100.I then compared my Charger SXT to the Azera SE.The Charger was 24665 to the Azera 22000.I used 6000 miles for mileage,thats what I have on my Charger.You can check it out yourself,you don't have to take my word for it.The LX cars have one of the best resale.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    What numbers are you quoting? $24,665/Charger vs. $22,000/Azera!!!

    First of all, start with the purchase price of said vehicles...comparibly equipped (if that's even possible). Then, set them up evenly in a trade-in calculator (KBB or Edmunds). Put in the same superficial info, such as mileage, color and condition and see what #'s you come up with when all is said and done. The Charger may be worth more, but only because you paid more. What you need to point out is...the difference between purchase price and trade in price and calculate the percentage of difference.

    If you break down the difference in value to percentages, you will be surprised to find out that it's not that far off in reality. I did the same comparison using an Avalon Touring model vs. Azera Limited...both fully loaded and both with 20k miles...the difference in value based on each cars' initial purchase price were actually pretty consistent with each other. There was no major difference in resale value between the Avalon and the Azera (refer to post #3451).

    Post #3451
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Okay, okay...here we go.

    I set it up to be equally equipped compared to my 2006 Azera Limited with premium package.

    Leather seating, Power driver's & passenger seats, V-6 engines, Heated exterior mirrors, AM/FM/CD Changer/MP3 Audio System, Front & rear air bags, Split folding rear seat, Fullsize matching spare tire, Alloy wheels, Leather trimmed steering wheel & shift knob, Front fog/driving lights, Power sunroof, and Heated front driver's & passenger's seats.

    Both cars pretty much equally equiped at this point.

    I plugged in 25k miles, black in color and for giggles...I selected "Outstanding" condition.

    The values are as follows:

    2006 Charger SE

    Trade-in - $18,027
    Private Sale - $19,798
    Dealer Retail - $21,604

    2006 Azera Limited (premium package)

    Trade-in - 18,895
    Private Sale - $20,471
    Dealer Retail - $21,761

    Again, both vehicles are pretty dead even in equipment and I plugged in the same color, mileage and condition to make them as equal as possible to determine the value. As you see...the Azera fared better than the Charger in this comparison.
  • xtecxtec Member Posts: 354
    Your comparing the Charger SE which is the cheapest of all Chargers to the top of line Azera yet the Charger was only 163$.That Azera should be copared to the Charger R/T to come with the close to same MSRP.Your doing apples to oranges,I'm doing apple to apple.You just proved that the Chrysler cars have a better value.Thanks.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...why would you compare a V-8 equipped Charger with a V-6 equipped Azera??? Oh yeah, that's right, that's the only way American cars can keep up with the imports! LMAO

    No my friend, YOU are doing apples to oranges.

    You don't use the MSRP as your starting point, you take two vehicles and equip them as equally as you can. Which is exactly what I did. A fully loaded Charger R/T will cost WAY more than a fully loaded Azera Limited (ultimate package).

    Like I said before, I don't know what the price of the Charger SE equipped as I showed went for in 2006, so I can't honestly say which has the better value. If I'm not mistaken, it would have run about $25K to get a Charger like that, in which case...the value between the two is pretty darn close. Maybe I should have said the Charger SE with the SXT package, I guess you didn't look at the options that were listed in the comparison. Being a Charger owner, I was assuming you would have known that.

    Go back to your apples and oranges pick with the Charger R/T vs. the Azera...that's a joke!!! The BASE 2007 model R/T starts out with an MSRP of just over $30K. Not to mention to get an R/T with some of the same features as the Azera...you're talking an MSRP of $35K (that's not even fully loaded). The fully loaded 2007 Azera Limited w/XM shows and MSRP of just over $27K. With all the options, the MSRP on the Azera is just over $31K How on earth do you try to compare the two???

    The 2007 Charger SE with the SXT package (which equips the Charger very similarly to the Azera Limited w/Premium Package) as I stated in my initial post, comes to just under $26K. So why is it apples and oranges when comparing the two???

    Whatever it is you're smoking over there...take it back and get a refund because it's a bad batch!!!

    I'm sorry if you're feelings are hurt to find out that there's no big difference in resale value between the Azera and the Charger (when equally equipped). LOL You tried hard though, I'll give you a C+ for your valiant effort. :P
  • xtecxtec Member Posts: 354
    My Charger SXT is equal to the Azera SE ,and close on msrp.Like I said before,with same options as my Charger,the Azera SE was $22000 and my SXT was $24665.The Charger SE started at 19999 in 06.It has half the options your Azera Limited does.How can you call that Apples to Apples.I proved my point and don't need to go farther.I'm sorry if you can't accept it.
  • vic10vic10 Member Posts: 188
    You left out the most important part: No matter what the difference in price or resale value, if you bought an Azera, at the end of the day you're stuck with...an Azera. That alone should be enough reason to buy the Charger, n'est-ce pas??

    Although the prices may be similar, the markets they appeal to are completely different. You might as well be comparing fishing poles to baseball bats (or whatever other weird comparison you wish to choose). Nice to be able to have that choice in the same price range, though, don't you think?
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    You left out the most important part: No matter what the difference in price or resale value, if you bought an Azera, at the end of the day you're stuck with...an Azera. That alone should be enough reason to buy the Charger, n'est-ce pas??

    Worst logic. ever.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Again, I don't know what options list you're looking at...unless you're trying to say you bought a bare-bones Charger SXT. The '06 Azera SE was the base model version until '07 when the GLS was introduced.

    You've proven MY point as well. The Charger SE started around $20K and when you get done adding all the options to make it comparable to the Azera Limited w/premium package...it is closer to the price of that rather than the Azera SE. You just choose to go with the SE instead to TRY and validate your point.

    Your SXT at $24,665 is much closer to my Azera Limited at $26,081. So, once again...in comarison...you lose out on which car is a greater value. You're also reaching by trying to compare the Charger SE to the Azera Limited when it comes to options.

    If you go back and look at the comparo I posted, I used the Charger SE, but...with the SXT package which made the two cars equally packaged. I'm sorry if YOU don't want to accept the truth in the matter that that Azera and the Charger are pretty equal in resale value at this point.

    In conclusion, you have YET to prove your point other than trying every way possible to sell the idea that your Charger SXT is superior in value to an Azera SE or Limited. It's not that I can't accept your logic, it's just you haven't shown any with the route you're taking to make the comparison. First you want to compare a Charger R/T to an Azera Limited, then you turn around and try to compare your SXT to the Azera SE!!!

    You can't compare the Charger SXT to the Azera SE. You can compare the Charger SE to the Azera SE, but...once again, you'll see the the Azera will show and prove to be a better value. I've already shown a perfect situation with both cars being pretty much equal in listed equipment, condition and with the exact same mileage. The numbers speak for themselves. Now tell me what point you've proven! :confuse:

    I'm sorry, unless you have a Charger R/T...the rest just suck! It's akin to buying a Ferrari with a 4 banger AND an automatic (okay, maybe a V-6)in it! In the end, your Charger can't even keep up with an Azera...how's that for insult to injury? :P
  • keitha3keitha3 Member Posts: 124
    My answer to your question is a huge, "No!!!!!"

    I've test driven both and much prefer the Azera, especially if they get their suspension problems cleaned up.

    Honestly, the Charger had a nervous feel to its handling which I didn't like. But, each of us obviously can make our own decisions, right?

    By the way, I wouldn't consider myself "stuck" with an Azera should I purchase one. I'd be proud of my decision to spend my money wisely.
  • cobrazeracobrazera Member Posts: 352
    I did a comp on the Dodge Charger R/T and found that equally equipped as an Azera Limited w/Ultimate the Charger lists for about $34.2K, and found that a 2006 model with 30K miles ( excellent condition ) has a trade-in value of $20.6K: cost to own was $13.6K.
    The Azera lists for $29.8K and had a used value of $16.3K: cost to own was $13.5K.
    Looks like they cost about the same to own for 2 years.
  • cobrazeracobrazera Member Posts: 352
    Continueing my previous post, #3547, both the Charger and Azera can probably be bought at a $2500 discount pretty easily, so the cost would be about $11K for each.
    I then compared these to an Avalon XLS ( closest in equipment ) and found a new price of about $32.2K and a trade-in value of $21.2K, cost to own: $11K.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Once again, they two are NOT equally equipped as the R/T has a V-8 and the Azera has only a V-6. That is why I used the Charger SE w/SXT Package vs. Azera Limited w/Premium Package. The equipment list is pretty much dead even and there is only a couple thousand difference in the price. A much better comparison to use.

    However, thank you for proving my point that the Charger and Azera are pretty much the same value. There are some that just refuse to believe that their precious American-made Charger can even be compared to the likes of a Korean-made product! LOL

    Like I said before when I bought my '02 Sonata, the rest of the car makers need to keep an eye over their shoulder because Hyundai is creeping up on them.
  • alexstorealexstore Member Posts: 264
    Toyota syndrome is now present in Hyundai. Recently visited HUyndai dealership in search for an SUV and had a chance to look at velacruz. Is this a top of the line Huyndai SUV? I have a better chance at buying used MUrano then this vehicle . Also looked once again at azera. Currently top of the line Azera without any options does not match even basic Avalon in its status.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Alexstore...stop smoking that stuff. What in the world is Toyota Syndrome??? Did you actually test drive the V-E-R-A-C-R-U-Z? A Murano can't touch it! Besides, you're comparing a mid-size SUV (Murano) to a full-sized SUV (Veracruz). A better comparison would have been the Santa Fe vs. Murano.

    Anyway...what exactly do you mean by "status"??? Are you aware that the Avalon isn't even the best vehicle that Toyota makes? The FJ Cruiser has taken that distinction as the Toyota vehicle with the least amount of problems.
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    re: 3550 Your post is a little confusing. :confuse:
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Personally, I think HE'S confused himself! ;)
  • cobrazeracobrazera Member Posts: 352
    As a " Car Nut " there's no way I could consider the Charger without the V-8 - that's it's best virtue. Besides, the V-6 Azera is closer in performance to the V-8 Charger than it is to the V-6.
    The Azera 1/4 mile and 0-60 are each about 1/2 sec behind the V-8 Charger; in the stoplight Grand Prix, whoever leaves first will not be caught without going into illegal speeds.
Sign In or Register to comment.