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To your logic buy a used Corolla and put the rest in the bank for the kids, vacation. Why spend even $16K on a car when you can spend $3K? Seems like theres a bit of the sentinment: Do as I say and not as I do.
Sell your home and squeeze your family into a 2 bedroom condo in the ghetto side of town. Sure, they may not be as safe there, nor as comfortable -- but think about it, you could save a cool $100,000+.
(I think you see what I'm getting at)
Bhmr, you made a valid point in that many people are willing to spend $20K to $30K more to show others they own a status symbol. Very few actually appreciate all the deep history and wonderful engineering that those cars are really supposed to be about.
We all know why people buy a new (or newer) car instead of saving thousands on a cheap used car. Reliability. Safety. Comfort. Peace of mind.
As for those who buy an Avalon vs a Camry, or a Maxima vs an Altima, or an Azera vs a Sonata, etc. These people are rightfully rewarding themselves by spending a couple thousand more, however their enjoyment is coming from the extra comfort and driving performance they and their passangers are enjoying; not from being seen by others.
IMO, your 300C and the upcoming Pontiac G8 will be the real sales competitors
( at least in the USA market ) for the Hyundai Genesis - not BMW, Mercedes, et al.
Really? You think an opinion of how someone else spends their money is really valid? Interesting. You have a magical line in the sand where you decide cars are bought for status and the world should bow to your magical number? Any car bought below the number is for utility, but above the number is status? :confuse
The quote was not about spending more money to get what the poster thought was a better car, and my reply was not about saving money by buying a POS. The whole point was about spending the extra money (make it $5K, make it $50K, I don't care) to try to impress someone else.
But we all have different sets of values. For those lacking self -esteem, if (hopefully) impressing the neighbor by buying a particular car builds up their ego, then, as I said, "go right ahead."
That was the whole point. If my neighbor actually admitted he/she paid $70K for this LS460 ( as an example) to impress me, I wouldn't believe it and would laugh in his face. So who has actually admitted to you they bought an expensive (name your own expensive item) to impress you? Even if they did do so for that specific reason, as I didn't give them the money I wouldn't care. The Lexus dealer is probably happy though.
Resale value, on the other hand, is still a drawback but to be fair, it has improved quite a bit due to the other areas of dramatic improvements from Hyundai, including perceptions.
A lot of people are coming around on the brand but you just gave us a good example why Hyundai has to continue producing quality automobile, and convincing others to put Hyundai on the shopping list in the first place, regardless of the final decision.
New news:
So I checked out the Lexicon discrete audio system. Absolutely fantastic!! It will be in the Hyundai Genesis (currently in the Rolls-Royce Phantom). The Hyundai-equipped is a logic 7 system, with 17 speakers, 7.1 channels, 2 three-way and 5 two-way transducer, and balanced equalization for driver and passengers.
There isn't a place in the 300C - engine aside - where you can't see the budgeting that made its production possible. From the wide gap between the hood and grill where DCX couldn't solve manufacturing issues to the spartan interior with hard plastic and fake metallic accents, the big beautiful car became a bit tiresome after a year.
It's really a faux luxury sedan. It makes a great first impression, and delivers the speed and some of the agility you want, but then comes the wind noise, suspension creaks and unwanted rattles.
What makes the Genesis intriguing is that it apparently delivers not only a RWD sedan with a 368 hp V8. It also provides a complete list of available content that matches a genuine luxury vehicle. It used to be that new Hyundai's looked like 4 year old versions of other makers with less content than consumers wanted.
The new Genesis looks like an amalgam of CURRENT models, with no stinting on content. If a loaded Genesis can be had for less that 43K, there seems to be a very good argument for a test-drive when it hits the market. That's not to say that I won't end up buying an Infiniti M45, which I've tested twice and plan to purchase some time this year. But I am going to wait until the Hyundai comes out and see if it delivers what looks very impressive on paper.
That was not the case with my BMW. The love affair never faded. Luxury and high quality touches were the order of the day. Reliability and excellent customer satisfaction were the order of the day. Until the day I got rid of it the love affair continued.
It is true after a while, I took the superb balanced handling for granted...that is until I drove another car and tried to drive it the same way.
Point is, no matter what you car own the love affair doesn't really have to end after the honeymoon is over.
I agree completely. The 300C has been a fun car, but its limitations became clear after living with it for a while. That's the curse of many "near luxury" cars. They can be a great value, but the compromise can be a lot of little sacrifices in comfort or performance.
The CTS seems have addressed this issue well. If the Genesis has a good driving dynamic to back up its long content list, it will certainly be entertaining at a price that no other premium sedan can match.
Well, at least the Brand name sounds like its 'American', and the 'concept' of the car (a big ole V8 sedan) is definitely 'American' - with a dose of that good old fashioned German engineering. Maybe I missed something, did we recently annex Canada?
Without ego, there is no need for many vehicles on the top end of the market. Let's face it, many people in this country spend much of their time and money trying to impress people, rather than spending time and money on more important and less narcissistic endeavors. Those who may buy a Genesis most likely care more about impressing themselves, and not others. Kudos to them . . .
My friend, that is called capitalism. You must be referring to some other planet where people buy a Genesis because they want a truly great sedan, but the buy a BMW (or other vehicle) only to impress.
Low-end as a fact? Hyundai's bread-and-butter Sonata has very impressive MPG compared to others in the class. Similarly, the rest of the fleet boasts respective, better than average mpg.
On paper that seems like a great thing. We need to see production models put up against other vehicles to see for sure. If they are selling this vehicle at this pricing, something somewhere had to give. What it is, we all don't know yet. Is is the suspension, the FE (hand in hand with engine delvelopment and weight issues), interior quality? Or... is Hyundai selling this car at very low profit (even at a small loss) to help launch something greater? I just look at the prices of the Avalon, Lucerne and 300 and think how much money are they making?
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
You're right, the premium is supposed to come with a lot you don't see. However, most that buy for status are superficial anyway. Like I said, they'll see the fact that a "lesser" vehicle is giving them some go and get under their skin. So, no...I'm not missing the point at all.
Actually I believe you are. If you are type who believes you have the fastest car on the block it will annoy you when any car bests you. How do you think RS4 supporters feel about the 335i meeting or exceed the performance of a car costing twice as much?
At NAIAS, there are two variations of Genesis on display. One as is to the press images, no badge on grille nor wheels; there was another one, slightly different front, different grille execution, and Hyundai emblems on the badge and wheels.
There is a decision to be made, either one or two, or both.
Personally, I like the more aggressive badge-less grille.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
1)first car on this forum with diesel engine ( displacement and specs unknown)
2) 270+ hp
3) 3.5 or 3.7 L engine
4) about 18-28 mpg- gas engine FE
5) is there possibility of AWD?
I can only hope that in the next few years, the newer generations of diesels are an option. (Of course, unlike the US, diesel fuel is less than gas in Europe). I probably would not want a Maxima (no offense, just not my cup of tea), but who knows, for the right price I would certainly consider it.
I mean...Toyota has the Avalon to the point where if one just wants the status of having a Lexus, but really likes what the Avalon has...you can get an ES. If the name doesn't mean a hill of beans to you, then you can get the Avalon and not feel like you're missing anything.
I agree Captain, Nissan should be innovative with the new Maxima, truly make it the flagship of their entire line-up, it's not like they're not capable of doing so.
I'm sure the next Maxima will be off the newer Altima chassis, and that will help a lot. What I'd like to see atop that chassis is an interior more like an Azera and less like an Altima. In my Altima service loaners, I've seen enough hollow plastic/cardboard topped with elephant-gray fuzz to last me a lifetime.
Where do you see the pricing starting on the Maxima? The reason I ask, a fully loaded, top of the line Altima will top out over $30K. Maybe start it off around the upper $20K's and fully loaded, top of the line model will set you back close to $40K. That's putting it in the price range of the Hyundai Genesis really!!!
I know the Maxima now is in the same price range as the G, but in car comparison...you would go from the Altima to the G. In terms of sedans, one would think that you SHOULD go from the Maxima to the M. That being the case, Nissan needs to really step it up to fill that gap.
That is a mystery to me as well. I can't stand these CVT transmissions. Its even worse in an underpowered car, like when the 500 had it.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Don't believe that AWD, in itself, is a solution to torque steer problems because AWD vehicles that are FWD biased (or FWD to start with) will normally route 90%+ of power to the front wheels anyway. You only get a power split to the rear wheels only in the event of loss of traction and TS is more a condition of too much traction. A more effective approach seems to be in what Acura is doing with the 286hp TL-S - electronically limiting throttle engagement when the front wheels are turned or Toyota's approach thru transmission gear selection. In any event, expect Nissan to do something to 'eliminate' TS in its luxury flagship - although increasing the HP (something they can easily do, VQ or not) will likely make it more difficult to do.
I thought the Max was going RWD. Did I miss something? AWD that is FWD biased won't help things all that much in the torque steer department.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Compare that now to a co. like Toyota and car like the Avalon where those workers do get paid in American dollars, do pay American taxes, and do support local economies all over the country because that's also where most of the parts come from.
Now I can't help you if you simply have a problem with names ending in a vowel (or don't understand some relatively simple economics) - but if you want to buy a car that is truly doing something to keep Americans off of welfare - you probably don't want to buy a Chrysler 300- that Canadian/German/Mexican car with an American name.
don't believe there is anything out to confirm or deny this - maybe just some wishful thinking given that Nissan already has what it needs to do this in the Infiniti Gs and Ms. It may come down to that RWD Maxima poaching sales from those higher profit Infinitis - much like a RWD Avalon would likely rob from the LS. Like you I guess I can't imagine 300hp+ in a FWD car - even GM seems to have learned this in abandoning the Impala SS in favor of the Aussie RWD model. But, if they do (come out with the RWD Max) put me in line, for sure
Yes and no, while we have started to have things like import tariffs and local content laws (as many other countries do) this is NOT the real reason. The real reason is because the American dollar is weak and Toyota, in this case, found out that it can make more MONEY building cars in Kentucky (or wherever) and minimizing te effect of the the 'fortunes' of the dollar . Ditto for Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW, MB etc etc. Likewise, Chrysler (and GM/Ford) found out they can LOSE LESS money by abandoning this country. So they (those nasty 'foreign' cos.) all invest literally billions building plants etc. HERE and employing bunches and bunches of REAL Americans. . This is an ultimate justification (money) for any business decision and is also the reason why those 'American' Cos. aren't really 'American' anymore.
In typical GM fashion ( fix it, but make it cheap ), the torque steer on the V8 powered Pontiac Grand Prix was reduced by gearing it taller than the similar Chevy Impala - how's about 100MPH in 2nd gear?
You may be right on that. A loaded up RWD Max would certainly hurt the "G". You would be getting many similar features, power, etc, but in a much larger package. Might not be what everyone wants, but, for some exactly what the doctor ordered.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic