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It is the old Volvo S80 platform which is still a very safe platform. It has all the safety gear is fairly quite, even more so with the 2008 model, and it has a slightly higher seating position then your average sedan.
It is the old Volvo S80 platform which is still a very safe platform. It has all the safety gear is fairly quite, even more so with the 2008 model, and it has a slightly higher seating position then your average sedan.
A new SEL will be closer to 25k though, right?
I would drive the old 500 just to see if it is quiet enough and if the power is OK. If so then get a used 500 and you will be under 20k.
Not much in the way of a new car with any real performance. You can buy a bunch of domestic cars but I'm no longer into domestics due to problems in the past. but it's tough to find a new car which is what I figured you were wanting that offers any real performance and is reliable at the same time. lots of nice cars in that price range but nothing really sporty or reliable VW makes some cars that are ok but nothing that can compete with your Taurus and if you want to get some more power there is always the Mazda Mazda speed 3 which I have not driven but it gets some awesome reviews and it's very fast 0-60.
I think the price might be a grand or two above what you want to pay but for sheer performance and new Mazda is an ok car and I'd easily take one over a VW anyday as they are more reliable.
But the Si is a mid-pack performer and it's a nice car but
if you want more in the Go dept. then the WRX and Mazdaspeed 3 are about it. Mini Cooper S is more money and a lot slower.
Edmunds did a Sport compact car review check it out they review most of these cars and the WRX and the Mazdaspeed 3 were the top 2 with the Mazda in the lead.
I'd be interested to find out what you finally end up with even if it's a domestic.
I don't think a Subie has leather. I'm not sure since the guys who bought prior to 2008 were into performance rather than interior comfort.
Leather is hard to get at $23K unless you get something like a Hyundai. i know you don't want a Hyundai.
Try the Mazdaspeed 3 it's not leather either but it's a damn fast car. It's really your only other choice in that price range. I don't see leather as happening but you can always negotiate as 2007 for Subaru is almost over and that would kill the older leftovers.
For me I like straight negotiation I know MSRP and Invoice and TMV and I figure out what I want to pay plus what I can get and sometimes I can get a good end of the month or year deal.
But leather thrown in for free. if you do that would be a real coup!
I think the WRX limited had leather but I'm not certain.
if you want fast you have to give up something. The Cobalt SS didn't do well at all against the WRX and the Speed3.
Does it come with leather? I really don't know.
Celicas aren't nearly $20K(this one is automatic, but manuals are about the same price). Shoot, in two months you'll be able to get a 2007 Lucerne CXS for that.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=226802839
$22.5K and the 2008 aren't even OUT yet.
Oh - and it would still have 4 years of drivetrain warranty left.
I just don't see a valid reason to buy new versus a few years old and certified. If repairs bother you, get an extended warranty for $1000 or less. That way your "repairs" on the used car are only $1000 for five or six years. Definitely better than new.
I've owned a lot of used cars over the years and for me i'm just tired of fixing things when they break and I can afford a new car and to keep it as long as I like so I do, but for many people they like used and they figure they save on the depreciation which they do. So if you are lucky with used cars then by all means. Me, i don't feel that lucky and I think same money for same money I will prefer used. but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like a 1998 Porsche 911S. I just don't want to have to fix it.
used is good depending on your needs. But I used to live in the snowbelt and will again and far too many used cars have been wrecked in the winter. I know if I bang up my own car but who knows what the other owner did.
So yeah depending on what the needs are the Celica might be the perfect choice but it all depends. it's certainly a decent enough car and for many it would probably be a great buy. but all used cars are used and some are abused. So in general the new car hasn't been anything.
I treat my cars very well, when I sell them they are like brand new. I plan on keeping whatever I buy for a very long time this next time that lets out certain cars that I think will be a problem so I will buy new. but for many used is the way to go and you can get more car for a lot less money. In the snowbelt the chemical they use on the roads is very harsh to the body of the car. So rust is a big factor after 7 years or so.
( hopefully a turbo Civic SI )
Then you would definitely like the AWD Subie WRX over the Celica.
Remember. if it doesn't have leather you can always get it added aftermarket. It can be part of the buying deal.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
Oh - the Subaru or Celica would of course be manual. Better in winter, better in summer, and a fraction of the cost to fix when it breaks.(try $500-$600 for a clutch job vs $2500-$3000)
( hopefully a turbo Civic SI )
Wisconsin is a big time snowbelt state and the WRX is gonna be the best you can buy but really go for a 2007 model. You won't regret it. The 2008 has smaller brakes and no LSD rather the performance stuff has been dropped in favor of a more comfortable interior so if you want the performance go for a 2007 WRX. The 2008 might in some ways possibly be a little better but I doubt it.
The money you will save is quite a lot over a 2008 which won't have any discounts.
Once you drive a WRX in the snow you'll be happy you got one. It was high on my list but I want a new 2007 model and I'm out of the US right now so no chance of that happening also I need and prefer a wagon.
In the snow a WRX is very tough to beat.
Than why are you looking at a salvage auction which generally only carries vehicles in need of major repair.
That is almost as silly as going across the country to save a few dollars on a vehicle.
What is "stability control" anyway? And do I need it? It sure sounds like something I'd want -- I mean, who wants to be unstable. And now there are HEAD air bags in addition to SIDE CURTAIN air bags?
And what about "continuous variable transmission"? I've done some reading on it and still haven't a clue what it is.
You know, I'm 54, and I plan to keep this car for the next 10-12 years. Now I am wondering how I can predict what kind of car will suit me best when I am 64. I don't think I can!
When I said "around $20,000", I meant not over 22,000. Or so. Maybe 23,000 OTD.
Cars I've looked at in the last week that I liked:
Subaru Outback SEDAN -- 2007, 2.5i Limited, 4 cylinder, MSRP $27,075; their price 24,514, minus $1000 cash back from Subaru, makes it OTD for $25,044 (that includes taxes of $1230 and license and title/reg fees of $200.) Not sure if that's really a good deal, but to hear the sales guy talk, they'll "actually lose $50 on the sale". I know that 2007 is the last year for the Outback Sedan and no wonder -- it looks like nobody ever bought one. I've searched all over the internet for some reviews and some first-hand opinions about the car but have found nothing. There is no category in the Edmunds forums for this car.
Honda Fit -- I thought I'd probably enjoy this car. But, Consumer Report says they have significant road noise.
While at the Honda place I had to have a look at the four-door Civic which I liked the feel of, but again, CR says they are noisy and they do sit kind of LOW.
Nobody seems to have much good to say about the Ford 500 on the forums.
I think the Versa deserves a look....I'm taking a few days off because this whole process is not a bit of fun. Salesmen here in Baltimore sure aren't like the nice young men in the south where I spent most of my life and bought our last car. Here, they just kind of listen with a grim look on their faces and don't seem to have much enthusiasm for find a vehicle for me. Maybe they are put off by my response to their "what kind of car are you looking for?", which is "oh...I don't know...ummmm..... something quiet... sort of SUV-like, but not really an SUV...maybe a wagon.... or a sedan....with good visibility.... maybe AWD -- or do I need that if I don't drive in snow? and leather...although I guess I could forgo that if necessary.....
etc.
Vicki
And what about "continuous variable transmission"? I've done some reading on it and still haven't a clue what it is.
Since you seem like a person who doesn't like to get bogged down in lots of details, so I'll try to explain these two things very simply (since I lack the technical vocabulary to explain these in full form specifications).
1.) Stability Control
Stability control is a computer-controlled system which uses brakes, throttle (acceleration/gas pedal), and a series of sensors to keep your car pointed in the intended direction.
If you follow a left-hand curve, but your car tries to go straight, the car's Stability Control system will brake the proper wheels and cut engine power to help guide you through the turn, until the system senses that the car is going in the direction the driver intended (by turning the wheel).
If you don't mind not knowing HOW it works, I'll explain what the CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) does.
2. CVT
The CVT operates like a transmission without gears. Unlike a car with a conventional automatic (like, say, the Subaru you drove), you'll never feel a "shift" as you accelerate up to speed. Instead, the car can vary the gear ratio (which is basically how many RPMs versus how many MPH you are going) continuously.
So, in a Nissan Altima with the CVT, if you floored the gas pedal, the car would rush to the top of the RPM range, which is where it makes the most power, and just stay there, even though your speed is constantly increasing. A conventional car (like the Subaru or Civic, etc...) would climb to redline, then shift up a gear, dropping RPMs, only to climb to redline again, etc...
Does this make any sense? I hope so. I'm not trying to go over your head (as many articles on these things tend to do - I don't understand those either!
Keep us posted on your car-buying journey.
Best regards,
Thegrad
If you want all the toys and bells and whistles you will have to pay more for it.
Honda is dealing a lot now because of the new Accords coming out very soon. So a great chance to get leather and all that and an Accord is very safe and also have leather for close to what you want to pay.
Camry is all new so will cost more. It's easy to own and Accord for 10 years, just anyone who has owned one.
Accords are reliable and pretty quiet and have waft you want for options and ride well but Camrys float more, so you get that Buick Land Yacht feeling with a Camry that my 80 year old father loves so much.
average ago of a Buick owner is something like 65 years old.
But I think an Accord will do you nicely and be as close as you can get without buying a BMW.
But the Nissan Versa, with CVT, is very quiet, sits up higher, and can be had for well under $20k. It's definitely worth a look.
Maybe if you go into each dealer and say something like, in the case of Nissan, I'd like to look at a Versa CVT and maybe also the Nissan Maxima, or for Buick, say, the Buick Lacrosse and Lucerne, you might get more enthusiastic results from salespeople. Do a little research before you go. At least explain your needs: I want a vehicle that sits a little higher than a sedan, is extremely quiet, etc. Give them some hints on how to help you!
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
I haven't driven the Versa but the rear seat layout with it's stacking rear seats means I won't buy one for my own use.
Hard to believe it's more quiet than an Accord.
I think she is going to have a very tough time getting ALL the things she wants for the price she wants to spend.
I'm sure there is something out there but quiet cars are usually expensive. I can't recall how quiet my dad's Buick Lesabre is, but he sure loves that car!
The CVT is quieter than a regular automatic transmission.
Yes, Buicks are pretty quiet, but new ones will cost more than 20k. And they don't meet her criteria of cuteness for sure!
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
The CVT is quieter than a regular automatic transmission.
Yes, Buicks are pretty quiet, but new ones will cost more than 20k. And they don't meet her criteria of cuteness for sure!
Sometimes people want things they just can't have. Like a Caterham Super 7 Ultralight R with air conditioning and a roof that will keep out the rain, oh and a heater and a radio that you can actually hear.
I should post that on the Caterham site so they could get a good chuckle out of it.
cheap, quiet, lower to the ground than an accord, cute, an auto transmission and around $20K.
I'm drawing a blank on anything that is affordable and will meet most of her criteria. Unless he gets a used limo or something, but most of those are cramped in the front.
She should just buy a Mini Cooper, not the S and have a aftermarket place stuff the car full of sound deadening material all over in the engine bay and the roof liner and then she'd have very quiet and cute and around 20K don't know how the auto trans is in a Mini tho.
As an aside to this. The Versa I think will compete with the new Scion xD which has a flat load floor, more HP than a Versa and a 2007 it no idea about 2008 yet.
My wife just loves the xD in Red. The seats look loads more comfortable and the power is enough for the highway and it has a 1.8L Corolla engine in it and they are usually bulletproof.
I have to admit the Scion looks really great but how it drives is very important to me as well. If it's as good as a Fit and the dealers deal I will probably buy her one.
The Fit is nice but fussy about getting frugal economy.
I had one and it was never even close to what it should have gotten. :sick:
The Lucerne CXS with the Northstar V8 is a thing of beauty. big, powerful, and luxurious without the bling. Reminds me a lot of the older Mercedes S420. In two months, you'll be able to get a loaded one two years old (2006 model) for less than 20k.
You can also get a Grand Marquis LS for about 18K right now. Basically that's invoice minus $6000 in rebates. Figure 16-17K in two months.
AWD is overrated or doesn't work properly except to help you get started in snow. Either get a Subaru or a 4x4. Mercedes and BMW also make proper AWD systems, but they are lots of money.
If you want something smaller, I'd stay away from the Japanese brands as they tend to be overpriced for what you get(ie the Fit - it's almost the same price as a base Mini) Nice car, but 0-3 years old will save you the most money. Look for something domestic or undervalued, used.(good example are most Hyundais)
The previous posters have given you some good choices to investigate. If the noise is the #1 factor in your decision, you may want to RENT some of the various vehicles so that you can go on some extended test drives on various types of roads. It seems that you may need to spend more time test driving a vehicle than the usual quick spin around the block. Unless you luck out and get a very understanding salesman that has plenty of time to spend with you, I am afraid that you may get coaxed into a vehicle that might not truly be in YOUR best interest.
By renting a particular model for a day or two, you can judge whether it fits your needs or not. Once you have decided on a particular car, you can THEN concentrate on getting the best deal on that particular model. Just a thought...
That's the one to get. It's exactly the difference between an older late 90s Mercedes S320 and the S500. The engine and suspension options make one a big floaty barge and the other a great car.
That's the one to get. It's exactly the difference between an older late 90s Mercedes S320 and the S500. The engine and suspension options make one a big floaty barge and the other a great car.
I know you were , but considering gas prices you can get a CXL which is identical to the V8 CXS for cheaper because of the 3800 series III motor ( which by the way its proven to be reliable ), not to mention if your driving it for 10+ years imagine what gas prices will look like, so far they haven't come down , plus you can get a Lucerne CXL cheaper than the CXS same options in the end same car better gas milage... so what if you don't get the Harmon Kardon sound system I doubt that alone would sell the car.
Btw The white pearl with the chrome rims is absolutely gorgeous
1 - the engine. Pretty bovious, but it's a fantastic engine and only a slight bit more "thirsty" than the 3800, thanks to using the same transmission in both(which means a mile-tall overdrive gear)
2 - the real deal is that they put the magnetic ride techology out of a *Corvette*(!!!) into it(they do the same with about half of the Cadillacs as well). It utterly transforms the car into a E-class destroyer. Float? Gone. Wobble an dleaning in turns? Not there. Torque-steer? Invisible, no matter how hard you pound it. It literally reminds me of a late 90s S class. Solid, stable, and composed at all times.
I guess the closest comparison would be comparing a Porsche 928 S to a 928 GTS. Basically the same sheet metal, but when you drive them, you'd swear they were made on different assembly lines.
1 - the engine. Pretty bovious, but it's a fantastic engine and only a slight bit more "thirsty" than the 3800, thanks to using the same transmission in both(which means a mile-tall overdrive gear)
2 - the real deal is that they put the magnetic ride techology out of a *Corvette*(!!!) into it(they do the same with about half of the Cadillacs as well). It utterly transforms the car into a E-class destroyer. Float? Gone. Wobble an dleaning in turns? Not there. Torque-steer? Invisible, no matter how hard you pound it. It literally reminds me of a late 90s S class. Solid, stable, and composed at all times.
I guess the closest comparison would be comparing a Porsche 928 S to a 928 GTS. Basically the same sheet metal, but when you drive them, you'd swear they were made on different assembly lines.
I know the magnetc ride is in there also but not necessary, you have to take into consideration all her requirements at the same time, and the CSX just doesn't make scense, the ride quality is great on both cars neither is harsh but the V8 Lucerne will tighten up the suspension a little when needed , I doubt she will be making any harsh cornering. But thats just my opinion in the end Vicky has to make the choice between the many rides suggested , in my honest opinion she should look at the Lucerne with the column shift ( only available in the CXL V-6 ) so she gets the floor space, and the V-6 since she plans on driving it for the next 10-12 years ,both have quiet tuning and the same safety features plus the styling on the CXL is identical to the CSX and she will save around $4,000 which speaks for itself. Locally I can pick up a CXL for around $18,000 with low miles ( around 15,000 ) versus the V8 CXS for $23,000 with low miles, but it's just a suggestion.
The v6 is just underpowered. She'd be better off with a Buick CTS. ie - a LaCrosse CXS. This has the same suspension and engine in the CTS 3.6, and is much MUCH better than the base Lucerne. Oh, and you can get the CXS with a bench seat if you want, which I highly recommend. It opens up the interior greatly.
A 2007 LaCrosse CXS in two months will barely run $16-18K used. With 4 years of the drivetrain warranty left, no less.
EDIT: Acutally the 3.6 in the LaCrosse is better than the CTS! They re-mapped the engine for low-end torque and not high-end power. So the torque curve is literally 30-40% better(lower) than the CTS. It moves. Very quickly.
At any rate, the idea of "sticking it to the man" with a car that may get me 30-35 MPG (on REGULAR gas!) is also quite appealing.
Anyway...I feel like I have to decide today since the Nissan $500 rebate, PLUS special financing (can't believe I can actually get BOTH!) ends today. The salesman said that he is fairly sure it will be extended, but can't say for sure. This was the first month for it.
I have never negotiated a car purchase before and want to do this all on my own. I want to know EXACTLY how much monthly payments will be. I'm going to take advantage of the 48 months 3.9 financing. I wonder if I can go to the finance department BEFORE I seal the deal? I don't want any surprises.
I still feel like I'm not getting the attention that I my husband and I have gotten in the past when we car shop together. I think this might have something to do with the fact that I am a 54 year old, hard-of hearing woman, driving an Acura TL. I guess they don't know what to make of me.
But, I'm going down to the dealership this morning and will tell the salesman "look, I'm ready to buy this car RIGHT NOW if we can come to an agreement, so I want your attention!" Well, maybe I'll leave out the last part.
Again, thanks for your help, guys!
Vicki
Seems plausible... If you rotate your tires every 5,000 to 7,500 miles, it should keep the noise level low throughout their life.
I tried to explain that there aint no free lunch, but he wants me to research.
any ideas/suggestions?
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
I'm not trying to beat the Accord into anyone's head, I'm just curious about the headroom being a problem...
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
However, if you're really tall, the backseat will become essentially useless with the seat all the way back. If he's planning on having a family anytime soon, the Beetle is not for him.
I live in Colorado and like to ski, so snow is a definite issue, as is cold and ice. I'm also reasonably concerned with mpg, but anything with over 23 city is gonna be acceptable. At this point in my life a stick is a definite plus (even though I can't drive a stick, I'd make it a point to learn on an old truck before any test driving were to occur), as is a car that looks cool. Insurance costs and resale value of little concern as I plan on keeping the car for 8 years atleast and I have spotless record with a great company. Because I do plan for keeping the car for several years reliability is a must (as it will also be my only mode of transportation), but know that I am good with keeping up with scheduled maintenance so I assume that most cars now a days should last that long as with reasonable care.
I've looked at several cars online (various comparison sites, kbb, edmunds, etc), and have looked at the Mazda6 (unimpressed) and others. I do however keep coming back to the Subaru Legacy as often as not. But, as I don't plan on buying till the spring at the earliest, I would like some additional opinions from people who have greater insight and experience in such things. So, any thoughts?
For $30k or less, here would be my list to check out:
Nissan Altima, Rogue, and Murano
Honda Accord, Civic/Civic Si and CR-V
Acura TSX
Toyota Camry SE
May I ask what you now do since you have just graduated? A friend of mine graduated nursing school last year and is now a successful nurse, but regrets spending $30k on her new Maxima last year. She got the bug and bought more car than she really wanted to pay for. She's now looking to sell her Maxima and get a less-expensive car.
For $30k or less, here would be my list to check out:
Nissan Altima, Rogue, and Murano
Honda Accord, Civic/Civic Si and CR-V
Acura TSX
Toyota Camry SE
May I ask what you now do since you have just graduated? A friend of mine graduated nursing school last year and is now a successful nurse, but regrets spending $30k on her new Maxima last year. She got the bug and bought more car than she really wanted to pay for. She's now looking to sell her Maxima and get a less-expensive car.
I'm an engineer for Lockheed. I've budgeted it out, and a $30k car payment wouldn't really interfere with my savings or spending plans. Also, one of the reasons I'm waiting until atleast March is so that I can spend a winter doing work driving with my Saturn and decide just what I do need in a car, and then feel spoiled when I buy more car than I need.
You ought to check out the V6 Accord Coupe. It comes with a 6-speed manual, lots of lux for your bux ($28k sticker for an EX-L V6). It's a really beautiful car that Edmunds just tested and seemed to really love. Really torquey, powerful engine with a slick stick-shift.
There is also a 190hp 4-cylinder model available as well (for about $2,000 less) that has an available 5-speed manual transmission which gets better fuel economy than the V6 and would still be a lot quicker than your 1996 Saturn. Depending on which engine you have in the Saturn (the 100hp or the 124hp) EPA estimates for the 4-cylinder Accord are just about identical between the two.
(I think I remember that the Saturn is an Automatic?)
These numbers are all Saturns from 1996.
23/33 for Saturn, 100hp, Automatic
21/31 for Saturn, 124hp, Automatic
21/30 for Accord, 190hp, Automatic
22/31 for Accord, 190hp, Manual
Their economy figures on the V6 Accord as Edmunds tested it were:
Edmunds Observed (mpg): 21 combined average (Best = 24.8, Worst = 17.3)
That includes hard driving for performance tests, however. Real numbers would be higher, I'd guess.
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