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My mom needs a car. She wants something much smaller than her current LeSabre.
- Must be luxurious. Leather standard. Civics and Accords need not apply - she's lokoed at them and thinks their interiors are tupperware and flimsy.
- Must be reliable as a tank. This kills BMW, Audi/VW, Chrysler and Ford(dad hates Ford, sorry).
- Must be Japanese(3rd choice), European(2nd choice), or American(preferred). Korean is not an option, no matter what.(One of my dad's few overrides. Heh)
- Prefers a convertible, but can live without it. But must have a back seat. She adores the Boxster but no back seat is a deal killer for her.
- note - price isn't a major factor - she's almost 70 and wants a "toy" as what will likely be her last car before she's too old to enjoy driving(they tend to keep cars 10 years on average) Maybe 40K tops.
- Wants it to be small - like Civic sized at most. Easy to park(#1 criteria).
- No SUVs. No hybrids. No oddball Crossovers. No Vans. No Trucks. Car of some kind. Hatchbacks, wagons, and the like are acceptable as long as they aren't large. Slightly raised version that looks like a car(Matrix, Forester, etc) is fine, but it needs to be luxury outfitted). Note - she flat out refused a Rav-4, so this gives you an idea of where here "looks like a SUV - I don't like them" line is.
- MPG isn't really a factor at all.
- Number of doors isn't a factor, either.
So far, she likes the Mini, but is worried about reliability. . She, as I said, likes the Boxster, but it's got zero ability to serve as a long-term family car. I suggested a Camry Solara, but it's too big and she thinks it's ugly(can't argue here - it's no Boxster - :P )
So...
Any ideas? I'd point her at a Volvo or maybe a Mercedes but their reliability is questionable in the last few years, and while they can afford the repair bills, they'd rather not have to. (his brother by comparison hardly spends a dime on his Lexus' he buys).
The Acura TSX and Infiniti G35/G37 also come to mind.
What about a Volkswagen Eos? I know reliability is still very iffy, but its worth a try.
I would also look at a Mazda Miata.
If she really wants a convertible, then the Volvo C70 or the MINI (though I really don't like that stacked top... and parking visibility is terrible).
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Its pretty fun to drive; handles well, CR has reliability pegged at "better than average" (for the 4 cylinder) and "average" (for the V6 models) However, the Accord is rated at "well above average" across the board, and the Camry has a "well above average" reliability rating for the 4 cylinder, but a "worse than average" rating for the V6 models.
I passed on the Accord recently because a) Honda wasn't offering discounted financing b) Accord prices compared to an Altima were about $400-$500 more and c) the Accord has gotten too long and big for my tastes.
The Accord handled and drove well, and I'm sure it would be an extremely excellent choice, but my vote (and money) went to the Altima.
I did not consider a Toyota Camry. It just isn't my cup of tea.
But if I had more time to take test drives, I would have tried out a Saturn Aura, Ford Fusion, Chevrolet Malibu, and Hyundai Sonata as well. Check out all 4, but keep in mind they may not be as good as the Altima/Accord/Camry trio.
The other car that gets compared to a Mini is a Volvo C30, but it is not a convertible.
I was underwhelmed with the Ford Fusion I4. I drove my father's vehicle over Thanksgiving and found the vehicle to be both weaker AND louder than my Corolla. I dislike cars built for a V6 and equipped with a 4-cylinder engine.
I like the Malibu but the latest version seems to be very expensive for what you get. The boring 2006 Malibu achieved very good gas mileage but the interior was extremely drab, something only a cost accountant would liek.
I just drove a loaded Hyundai Sonata and have to admit that I liked the vehicle a lot better than the 2007 Impala and the new Buicks. The vehicle is easy to get into. It is very comfortable and the car handles very well. If i were in the market for a midsized vehicle, it would be my choice.
They did look at the 2007 CTSs and were impressed. It's not an Audi interior-wise - far from it, in fact, but even the old one was miles ahead of a G6 or a Civic inside, and they are inexpensive now due to the new model being so much better. But it's still much larger than she wants. Her current car has 210 or so HP and she never uses more than maybe 1/2 throttle, so a 250-300hp car is a total waste on her and she knows it.(hence her love of the base Boxster and Miata and other cars that are impractical as she needs to be able to drive my son around from school - he's still too young to use a front seat)
I can't really blame her - a Miata is a slick car. She has good taste, at least in cars.(My dad is the one who likes Buicks and GM - heh)
I've also added the IS300(couple of years used), the Volvo S40(most of the bugs have been worked out I think by now), and the Saab 9-3.(also seems adequate, repair-wise. They are used to Buicks, so a few repairs every so often, as long as they aren't BMW or Mercedes priced, are acceptable.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Her current car: 200 inches long/3567Lbs/39.5 ft turning radius(the biggie)
Her previous car: 193/3250 Lbs/36 ft turning radius.(W body - later morphed into a late 90s Regal)
She'd like something one size smaller than that older car, even. She's got bloat on her mind and I don't blame her. We're talking about a foot smaller at least, preferably two.
The bad:
Volvo C70 - too heavy and poor turning radius. The Sedan is fine but the Hard Top convertible idea kills trunk space and makes it weigh nearly 4000 lbs.(ouch) Drives like it, too.
Saab 9-3. Again, a winner until you see the 39 ft turning radius. Ag.
G35/G37 - She likes to looks, but I know she'd hate it driving it as the rear visibility is dreadful - trunk is way too high. CTS also has this problem. Bit too heavy as well. Feels powerful but not light on its feet.
TSX - looks lovely. 40 ft turning radius(!!!) kills it right off. It must be able to do a U-turn in a typical street without having to do a 3 point turn, whatever it is. Shame, too, since it looks like a winner otherwise.
CTS - no rear visibility, too large, WAY too heavy. Feels like a muscle car, and while *I* like that, she wants cute and agile. The G35 also has this "problem" which for her is one I guess(Me, I'd flog the thing silly and love every moment)
The good:
Volvo C30/S40 - cute and look decent enough. The C30 is a real charmer and while it has poor rear visibility in traffic, it has fantastic *parking* visibility due to the rear window.
The Mini is still on her "I like it list" - she really likes the new long wheelbase model that just came out. I think it's ugly as sin, but it's a nice car, really.
IS 300 - Very reliable and nice car. 176.6 inches long, 3255lbs, 34.1 ft turning radius. Just a bit bland is all. She likes it though, as it's like a miniature Buick in a lot of ways.(actually the IS300 drives very very well with manual)
IS250 - 3.5 inches longer, 200lbs heavier, but 33.5 ft turning radius makes it actually more nimble than the Mini.(the IS 300 also is *this* close to a Mini, despite the Mini's hype).
So I think I've got it narrowed down to 4-5 choices. I personally wrote off the IS250 but that's because I personally hate it. But for her, it's probably a perfect car other than the fact that it has no convertible option.
The Odyssey is less than 37.
Hard to figure such a dichotomy.
When are you buying ? The BMW 128\135 should be out soon. It will be a bit smaller than the 3 series.
I'm not a big Ford fan, either, and luckily they have been smart enough to buy Mazda and Volvo, but leave them alone. The only connection when talking about the C70/S40/C30 is that they are on the same platform as the european Ford Focus and Mazda3, but the platform was codeveloped by all 3 companies.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
She actually doesn't like Volvo for some reason, but the smaller ones ARE cute and I'm sure she'll like it when she does look at one. Though the IS seems more her "style" I think - The IS300 feels like a go-kart compared to her LeSabre. *6 foot* smaller turning radius. It honestly reminded me a LOT of the old Volvo 940 Turbo. Solid, feels European, lovely handling, and a nice interior. Even the IS250 is worlds better, though the rear end IS quite high.
TSX is bad, because it's FWD, and has fat tires on a small chassis.. I'm sure they could have engineered it differently... but, they didn't..
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RWD should be just fine
Actually while my 4Runner was in the shop last month(went in for an iol change, they stripped out the drain plug and tried to blame it on me until I showed them that the last three changes were with them - duh), they had me in a FWD rental.
Mind you this is a Corolla with FWD. The steering felt more vague, stiff, and rubbery than the 4 Runner. Note - my 4 Runner has off-road gearing(aftermarket diff and transmission), BFG Mud Terrains - AND they are about 4PSI low in the front(factory recommends this - handling issues at 60mph+ otherwise).
So basically a RWD rock crawler with extra fat and chunky end of the world tires at lower PSI is half the steering effort of a FWD Corolla. It's astounding, really.
BTW - I test drove an IS300 three years ago and ran it hard. It was like a rally car - just silly quick like an old Volvo 240 Turbo or BMW 2002Tii. BTW - Ontario Auto Mall if you are in Southern California is superb. They have a street system that connects all the dealerships - a 2-3 mile closed circuit of sorts that makes for amazing test drives and that the police ignore as it's private property.
Take an IS300(or even an IS250) out for a spin. It's a real eye-opener how much better the car drives compared to the Camry or Corolla.
I love it.
It handles well, the CVT is smooth and I do not notice any difference vs. a 6 cylinder vehicle. Has been good in the snow/ice we've had in Missouri lately. Also fun on dry pavement. Am currently getting 23.5 mpg.
Love how it looks too, although my boss told me it looks like a mouse?? and my brother said I needed to go dock it back at the mother ship. LOL.
Two Must Haves are: AWD and Split 3rd row seating. As we have 3 kids, one in a booster and one in a car seat, we utilize all three rows. As we would like to maximize the storage capabilities, the split 3rd row is a must. Ideally, the second row would be bucket seats for ease of access to the third row. I’ve been trying to narrow down the field so I am not running around looking at models that do not offer what we want. Here’s what I’ve come up with in the Crossover category as well as a short commentary on each model. Please let me know if there is anything else in the marketplace that I could look at
1. Ford Freestyle/Taurus X – Friends have one and wife test drove one last year. She liked it. Plus, we can get X-Plan pricing if we buy new. Liked the CVT, but discontinued for TX and now I hear they are discontinuing the TaurusX . This seems to be the leading candidate for “bang for the buck”
2. Volvo XC90 – What can I say It’s a Volvo. I’d be our 4th Volvo to date. More than likely this would be CPO purchase. Cons – 2’nd row bench and poor gas mileage.
3. Chrysler Pacifica – Neighbors have one and report its ok, not great. Storage seems small. Gas mileage poor.
Any additional comments are more than welcome.
Thanks,
Peeter
BTW where did you read we were doing away with the X? I had not heard that and would be curious.
The GMC Acadia, Saturn Outlook, and Buick Enclave trio also come to mind as good options, as does the aging Honda Pilot (which will be replaced this fall I believe, so the discounts are everywhere right now, but the second row is a bench)
I would also consider an Acura MDX, although the second row is not bucket seats.
That's what my wife says.
I read the TX comment on Edmunds in the Freestyle/Taurus X thread here
Haven't looked into the Flex, but will. Unfortunately, being a new model, etc, I don't think they'll be enough discounts to put it into our budget.
Joel, since you are the Ford person I was actually going to ask you a feq questions. I just changed jobs and had the X plan at my old job. I generated a PIN while there and it is still vaild. Can I use it? Also, any insight on upcoming incentives for the TX? Finally, how are used Freestyles doing right now in terms of pricing?
Thanks,
Peeter
btw, we were in Nashville a few years back for a convention. We stayed at the Opryland Hotel, it HUGE!.
Send an email to the address in my profile with your last name and zip code and I will check if you qualify for any private offers. I will also check to see what the current programs are in your area.
It is hard to say what the market is on the used Freestyles because it varies so much from Region to Region. I see sales people here talk about how ridiculous KBB is yet in our area we use it all the time, we will print it out for a customer even if they don't mention it.
Yes Opryland is huge. What did you think about the indoor atrium, the place that looked like a jungle. Were you there before or after they tore down the theme park?
We were in Nashville Nov 2003 for my wife's Civil Engineering convention. Since I was the 'spouse' I got to do the touristy things. Even took a tour of the Jack Daniels distillery. :shades: They were just finishing decorating the hotel for Christmas so it was pretty spectacular. I spent alot of time just walking around looking at eveything. The theme park was gone, but we did shop at the mall. Bought a pair of python skin cowboy boots that I wear with my tux.
To keep on the topic of cars, while there we rented a Mustang. I wanted a fun car for a rental and figured why not. Plus, at the time we thought we might buy one. Turns out not too many others rented a car so one night we jammed 4 people into the back seat :sick: Not as bad as the one time I had 8 passengers plus luggage in a '87 Civic hatchback, but bad just the same.
Peeter
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also, there is no option for 2nd row buckets, so access to the back requires flipping the seats (or crawling through the hatch, which actually isn't that bad if one seat is folded down).
The Rav4 gets quite good fuel economy for the class. The Santa Fe is more or less typical.
If you do stick with the TX, definitely make sure you get one that is optioned with the split third row. It is standard on the Eddie Bauer and Limited trims, but optional on the SEL trim.
Also, don't get the second row console if you want to have access to the third row with car seats in the second row. From what I have seen, 99.9% of Limiteds with captain's chairs are optioned with the center console. Without the second row console, you can access the third row seats without having to fold the second row seats. With the center console, however, this becomes more of an acrobatic feat.
Yeah, we're not expecting much of an improvement, but the wife really wants to get out of the minivan. And she wants the AWD so that's what we're looking at. We discussed things this weekend and going used seems to be best economical option. We looked at the XC90's but their gas mileage isn't the greatest. Now, if only Volvo would add a fwd facing 3rd row to the XC70, I'm there in a heatbeat!
The 2nd row benches w/o console is exactly what we are looking for as our 8yo who currently resides in the 3rd row will probabaly be back there as well. As for the 3rd row. Split is what we are looking for as well since we want to maximize packing space for vacations.
The final, gotta have, is a dvd player, though I've been researching aftermarket units and I think that if we find one w/o a player, I can always add one later.
Peeter
I ask you this: how does anyone get into the 3rd row with 2 carseats in the 2nd row?
(answer: you remove one of the carseats, fold seat to gain access to 3rd row, then reinstall carseat. sounds like fun, huH?)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
well, that would solve the problem. I didn't actually know you could do that. does a booster use LATCH? My 3rd row in my Pacifica doesn't have LATCH points.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Currently, my son (3) is the only one we need to latch in. His seat is in the 2nd row behind the driver. He's old enough to climb in and out of the seat himself, and probably could buckle himself in, but since we don't have a 1/2 hour to kill waiting for him to do it, we do.
would that work for her (if she hasn't yet bought a car?)
-thene :-)
Is there a car out there or once coming out soon that has the following:
- Good fuel economy (preferably a hybrid)
- Voice activated Bluetooth phone integration
- Navigation
- Traffic reports
- Weather reports
- ipod integration (control ipod from a screen)
- $30 - 32k
- at least somewhat stylish
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Anyway, here's the deal: My day job has me driving about 130 miles a day roundtrip (Monday-Friday). On the weekends, I play in a band and tend to haul a decent amount of gear. I want one car that could be a good balance between good highway mileage, cargo space and (of course) reliability.
Currently, I drive a 2005 GMC Envoy SLE 4x4 that gets about 18 MPG average on the interstate - obviously, I want to do better on the MPGs. I don't need as much space as the Envoy has, either.
Cars that I have looked at include: RAV4, CRV, Santa Fe, Outback, Forester and the Outlander.
Any thoughts from the fine folks on this forum? Thanks in advance!
Scott
If 4WD isn't a must, I'd opt out of it; your mileage will improve further. Subarus won't give you that option. The Santa Fe and Outlander don't have the efficient 4-cylinder's of Honda and Toyota, but they should at least do better than the Envoy is doing, and be a little more peppy in the process. Also, Toyota's RAV4 V6 will be much faster than any vehicles mentioned here, AND deliver better economy than the Envoy.
Have you looked at Nissan's new Rogue? It is a CR-V sized vehicle with 4-cylinder power and economy.
People will tell you "so-and-so doesn't have enough power." The only way to tell for yourself is to DRIVE them yourself; merge on the highway, gun it to pass once or twice; see if power meets your needs.
Keep us posted on what you drive!
4WD/AWD...I live in West Virginia and travel through Eastern Kentucky - very hilly and curvy. My parents live on a virtual mountain!
I guess my only concern with a 4-cyl engine is: would I be overstressing it when I packed my car full of music junk?
I'd think a test drive will give you a good idea on where to start. If you want, take along a couple of friends or relatives on your test drive, to give you the feel of the car with added weight. Just a thought. Is your music equipment going to weigh more than six or seven-hundred pounds? If so, you may really utilize the extra torque a V6 will offer.
But you've got me thinking...I would have to say that no, the equipment that I would be carrying 80-90% of the time would definitely NOT weigh more than 600 pounds.
Drive as you normally would. If you pass a lot, then don't be afraid to try it, even if it revs up the engine. Maybe mention to the dealer your intentions; they may have a pre-owned model they don't mind racking up more miles on.