OK I went to the dealer...no 06s left of course. They had a score of 07s, but no AMG trim. So I went and talked to the salesguy, a guy I dealt with when I was looking for a car before I bought the C43. I asked him about the badges...he said he didn't know. He claimed he didn't recall selling an 06 E-class with that trim package, as he said the 'sport appearance' package' is chosen most often.
Anyone here a dealer? I am curious about that AMG badged CLS too, I swear I've seen the same thing, although in this area that car does seem to attract some who would falsify the badging.
About a year ago I took a S55 AMG in trade for a Range Rover.
It was a 2004 and had around 15,000 miles on it. Brand new the vehicle was $110,000 or so and we stretched hard to get to $75,000 ACV. He was also trading in a pair of 2004 Range Rovers and because it took so long to get the deal all wrapped up the value of the S55 slid several thousand dollars worth.
To keep everything even I think we actually bumped the value of his Range Rovers and dropped the value of his S55 a couple of grand. We were going to wholesale the S55 but the Range Rovers were staying so we could own them for a little more and hopefuly get it back when they were retailed.
In real dollars he lost around one third of the purchase price plus tax in two years.
All being written off as a loss towards the business...
Thats nothing though this is the same guy that bought a Bentely Arnage T I guess almost a year ago now.
Right before he bought it he asked what my opinion was. I told him that in 6 months he would be calling me to get him out of it...
Flash forward about six months to March/April and he is calling up to see what we can give him for the Arnage.
I used to have a copy of the window sticker around here somewhere but I think I lost it anyway the car stickered for about 265,000 dollars including the gas guzzler tax.
He bought it as a left over 2005 model so paid around $234,000 plus tax I think he said.
With only about 5,000 miles on the clock back in the end of April first part of May the only hand raisers we could get that were interested in it were offering bewteen $160,000 and $165,000.
"Tuner" cars have traditionally been hard sells once the next generation of factory tuner cars comes out, be it AMG or BMW M series or whatever the Porsche one is...I forget....Ruf I guess..... I think Saleen Mustangs do okay, though, probably because the MSRP isn't so high to begin with.
In my area (DC) a 3-4 year old BMW M5 in pristine condition will sell for at least $8-10k more than an E55 in similar condition. And the E55's MSRP was slightly higher than the M5's to begin with. It seems that a lot of high end cars take serious depreciation hits, but AMG higher than M.
Makes me think about Ferrari more seriously. The three people I know that have had the patience to wait out a 1-2 year delivery on a 360 or 430 have, in 2 cases, sold the cars (360's) for a profit after two years+ of driving. the 430 owner has only had his for 6 months, but could have sold it for $50,000 over his MSRP price the day he took delivery. He could still get close to that now.
I believe the excessive proliferation of AMG models and volume of each model will lead to further depreciation hits on AMG's vs. M's. In our area, instead of an SL55 being considered unique and special, it's damn near as common as an SL500 now.
Yeah Ruf is the most common Porsche tunning firm that I know of.
I have a 2004 BMW M3 on the lot right now with only 27,000 miles on it and a regular manual not then SMG. It was 55,000 or so MSRP new and we are selling it for just under 40,000.
"All being written off as a loss towards the business.."
Aaah good old fashioned American socialism. I need to see if I can get in on that legalized robbery.
But yeah, AMG costs are certainly not recouped at resale. I paid about 6K more than the price of a C280 in like condition, for my C43. It carried about a 25-30K premium when new. You can get good period E55s for maybe 6-7K more than I paid for the C43, and they were another 20K more than my car. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
The sudden AMG proliferation won't help, as was mentioned. SL55s are as common as SL500s here. AMGs cachet used to have something to do with exclusivity. Not anymore.
Are M series cars lower production? That might help their values. BMWs are the trendiest thing on the road here too, and I suspect in many other places. Every other worthless trust funder out there wants an M car or a soft top for their grad gift. That has to help values...MB is still seen as a bit stodgy.
And speaking of badging...is gold badging some kind of nightmarish dealer installed option? I thought MB people moved away from this painful fad around 1990 and left it to the Lexus/Toyota faithful, but the other day I saw a later (maybe 01-02) CLK convertible with gold emblems. It was nauseating.
Yes but you wait until the next generation of slicker faster M cars come out, and the old Ms will drop like a stone. Most people regard tuner cars as items that have been driven hard...so unless they are relatively new and low mileage, buyers fear them (with good reason in the case of the Ms).
Yes but you wait until the next generation of slicker faster M cars come out, and the old Ms will drop like a stone.
Sorry to dispel that hypothesis but it's not the case with the M5. In the last year, during which time I've added 12,000 miles to the odometer and the new M5 has hit showrooms, the trade-in offers I received for my 2003 M5 have gone UP $2-3k. Seems there was a lot of anticipation for the new M5, followed by a fair amount of dissapointment.
M cars are made in much lower volumes than AMG cars, which may contribute to their faring better on resale. But, in my opinion, a bigger reason is that they are just more appealing to the real enthusiast. With AMG so focused on horsepower and straight line performance, who wants to have a 369hp E55 when a 500 hp version is available. One can still hop into a manual transmission E36 M3 with "only" 240 horsepower and find it is sill a heck of a lot of fun to drive, and is still a rung or three up from a C55 in handling. Live by the HP sword, die by it, seems to be one of AMG's downfalls.
Well let's hope your M5 bucks the historical record for the M series cars. the M5 really isn't old enough yet to take the big hit.
But just speaking historically and without reference to the *merit* of the cars, older M cars don't resell well, relative to their initial higher cost I mean. BMW brand itself resells well, but the M has never justified its extra cost in resale values (not yet anyway).
It has nothing to do with the car really--it's more about how tuner cars are regarded in the used car market; also being a 4-door sedan, an M5 or an AMG sedan has an additional disadvantage in resale value.
the concept of tuner car/ 4-door sedan is rather odd to me in general. It seems a forced marketing concept and a very small niche. Fortunately BMW 4-doors are handsome for the type.
The only modern 4-door muscle car I can think of that kept a high resale value was the 94-96 Impala SS, (of all things).
go figure....???? Maybe the M5 and the newer AMG products will be that lucky.
A former business associate of mine drove all the way to Pittsburgh from Boston to challenge me to a friendly drag race at a private airport runway I have access to.
I had expected him to win handlily, with 600+ horsepower and 730+ ft-lbs of torque. But, in an unnofficial 3/8 mile run, I had him by a car length. His car appeared to have an extra moment of hesitation of the automatic transmission shifts.
The bigger question that has yet to be answered is what possesses someone who's idea of "sport" is to eat a bag of potato chips while watching a baseball game on TV, to buy a $180k+ 2.2+ ton 2-seat "roadster" that can achieve 200+ mph in a straight line. Yes, he cleared $30 million on the sale of his company last year, so he felt he had to "show off". But this guy still can't drive a stick without stalling it and I wouldn't trust him to park my car without banging something. This is the ultimate case of a loaded gun in the hands of an child.
He did, by the way, leave with some dignity in having beat my surgeon in his Ferrari 360 by a few car lengths on the same run. But when we drove back the 15 miles of winding roads to my country club, that SL65 fell out of both of our rear view mirrors after about 1/2 mile. Good thing he had a navigation system, or he'd still be out there trying to find us.
Very amusing. Having too much money certainly doesn't equate to too much skill. I suspect a lot of these high end cars end up with damage early in their lives. Hopefully he won't kill anyone with that thing.
The quote that got me was "The cars give themselves up for the safety of the driver," says Porsche spokesman Tony Fouladpour.
Porsche didn't say what happens to the poor slob one of these speeding idiots hits when they are on the public streets and not at the track where they should be.
Comments
Anyone here a dealer? I am curious about that AMG badged CLS too, I swear I've seen the same thing, although in this area that car does seem to attract some who would falsify the badging.
M
Is it different with wheels?
M
It was a 2004 and had around 15,000 miles on it. Brand new the vehicle was $110,000 or so and we stretched hard to get to $75,000 ACV. He was also trading in a pair of 2004 Range Rovers and because it took so long to get the deal all wrapped up the value of the S55 slid several thousand dollars worth.
To keep everything even I think we actually bumped the value of his Range Rovers and dropped the value of his S55 a couple of grand. We were going to wholesale the S55 but the Range Rovers were staying so we could own them for a little more and hopefuly get it back when they were retailed.
In real dollars he lost around one third of the purchase price plus tax in two years.
Thats nothing though this is the same guy that bought a Bentely Arnage T I guess almost a year ago now.
Right before he bought it he asked what my opinion was. I told him that in 6 months he would be calling me to get him out of it...
Flash forward about six months to March/April and he is calling up to see what we can give him for the Arnage.
I used to have a copy of the window sticker around here somewhere but I think I lost it anyway the car stickered for about 265,000 dollars including the gas guzzler tax.
He bought it as a left over 2005 model so paid around $234,000 plus tax I think he said.
With only about 5,000 miles on the clock back in the end of April first part of May the only hand raisers we could get that were interested in it were offering bewteen $160,000 and $165,000.
Makes me think about Ferrari more seriously. The three people I know that have had the patience to wait out a 1-2 year delivery on a 360 or 430 have, in 2 cases, sold the cars (360's) for a profit after two years+ of driving. the 430 owner has only had his for 6 months, but could have sold it for $50,000 over his MSRP price the day he took delivery. He could still get close to that now.
I believe the excessive proliferation of AMG models and volume of each model will lead to further depreciation hits on AMG's vs. M's. In our area, instead of an SL55 being considered unique and special, it's damn near as common as an SL500 now.
I have a 2004 BMW M3 on the lot right now with only 27,000 miles on it and a regular manual not then SMG. It was 55,000 or so MSRP new and we are selling it for just under 40,000.
Aaah good old fashioned American socialism. I need to see if I can get in on that legalized robbery.
But yeah, AMG costs are certainly not recouped at resale. I paid about 6K more than the price of a C280 in like condition, for my C43. It carried about a 25-30K premium when new. You can get good period E55s for maybe 6-7K more than I paid for the C43, and they were another 20K more than my car. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
The sudden AMG proliferation won't help, as was mentioned. SL55s are as common as SL500s here. AMGs cachet used to have something to do with exclusivity. Not anymore.
Are M series cars lower production? That might help their values. BMWs are the trendiest thing on the road here too, and I suspect in many other places. Every other worthless trust funder out there wants an M car or a soft top for their grad gift. That has to help values...MB is still seen as a bit stodgy.
And speaking of badging...is gold badging some kind of nightmarish dealer installed option? I thought MB people moved away from this painful fad around 1990 and left it to the Lexus/Toyota faithful, but the other day I saw a later (maybe 01-02) CLK convertible with gold emblems. It was nauseating.
Sorry to dispel that hypothesis but it's not the case with the M5. In the last year, during which time I've added 12,000 miles to the odometer and the new M5 has hit showrooms, the trade-in offers I received for my 2003 M5 have gone UP $2-3k. Seems there was a lot of anticipation for the new M5, followed by a fair amount of dissapointment.
M cars are made in much lower volumes than AMG cars, which may contribute to their faring better on resale. But, in my opinion, a bigger reason is that they are just more appealing to the real enthusiast. With AMG so focused on horsepower and straight line performance, who wants to have a 369hp E55 when a 500 hp version is available. One can still hop into a manual transmission E36 M3 with "only" 240 horsepower and find it is sill a heck of a lot of fun to drive, and is still a rung or three up from a C55 in handling. Live by the HP sword, die by it, seems to be one of AMG's downfalls.
But just speaking historically and without reference to the *merit* of the cars, older M cars don't resell well, relative to their initial higher cost I mean. BMW brand itself resells well, but the M has never justified its extra cost in resale values (not yet anyway).
It has nothing to do with the car really--it's more about how tuner cars are regarded in the used car market; also being a 4-door sedan, an M5 or an AMG sedan has an additional disadvantage in resale value.
the concept of tuner car/ 4-door sedan is rather odd to me in general. It seems a forced marketing concept and a very small niche. Fortunately BMW 4-doors are handsome for the type.
The only modern 4-door muscle car I can think of that kept a high resale value was the 94-96 Impala SS, (of all things).
go figure....???? Maybe the M5 and the newer AMG products will be that lucky.
M
I had expected him to win handlily, with 600+ horsepower and 730+ ft-lbs of torque. But, in an unnofficial 3/8 mile run, I had him by a car length. His car appeared to have an extra moment of hesitation of the automatic transmission shifts.
The bigger question that has yet to be answered is what possesses someone who's idea of "sport" is to eat a bag of potato chips while watching a baseball game on TV, to buy a $180k+ 2.2+ ton 2-seat "roadster" that can achieve 200+ mph in a straight line. Yes, he cleared $30 million on the sale of his company last year, so he felt he had to "show off". But this guy still can't drive a stick without stalling it and I wouldn't trust him to park my car without banging something. This is the ultimate case of a loaded gun in the hands of an child.
He did, by the way, leave with some dignity in having beat my surgeon in his Ferrari 360 by a few car lengths on the same run. But when we drove back the 15 miles of winding roads to my country club, that SL65 fell out of both of our rear view mirrors after about 1/2 mile. Good thing he had a navigation system, or he'd still be out there trying to find us.
http://jalopnik.com/cars/crash/
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB118186544305536109-lMyQjAxMDE3ODExNTgxNjU1Wj.html
Porsche didn't say what happens to the poor slob one of these speeding idiots hits when they are on the public streets and not at the track where they should be.
It's satisfying to see these bastards lose their toys, but I must remember that to them a 250K car is like $2.50 for you or I.