Buying New vs. Used Vehicles
What's the best value considering your driving needs, budget, and depreciation? Post your thoughts here!
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Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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For example, my wife refuses to buy used .. 'someone elses problems' she says. She also likes the new car warranty and knowing that she's been the only driver.
For a while, my sister and BIL bought slightly used --- first, an Infiniti G20 back in the mid 90's, then a used Explorer when they started to have kids. Now, they buy (or lease) new.
I'm sure that this topic will spark lots of debate .. for the same $20K, do I buy a new Hyundai Sonata with the 10 year warranty or the year old Camry or Accord?
In Jan '04 I bought a 2001 Saturn SL2 with 53K for $4300 from a local dealer. This car has been great to drive, overall reliable and gets 25mpg in town. Now with 71K still has a trade in value of around $4000. Even in 3 more yrs with 100K I figure it'll still bring $2500.
I can see a new post: Best $500 or less car experiences...
I'd buy used again, I'd just be smart about it like I was with the RSX, I learned a lot in buying used a few times and it's definitely worth the money to have it checked out
I bought a new '95 Mazda Protege in March of '96 for $13.3K. It just passed 200K miles and runs great with a solid engine and manual tranny (still on the original clutch). Oil usage is only 1 quart every 5-7K miles. I have done most of the service myself. When washed and waxed, the car still looks new. Fuel economy is still at 31-39 mpg. I plan on driving it for another 10 years.
I have detailed cost numbers because I use this vehicle in my consulting business. Here they are:
Costs per mile for the first 10 years (192K miles):
Purchase Price and Finance Cost- $.074
Gas- .032
Insurance- .023
Maintenance- .021 (labor not included for DIY work)
Registration and Wheel Tax- .004
Total cost per mile for first 10 years: $.154
Total cost per year for first 10 years: $2,957
*Estimated cost per mile for next 10 years:$.111
*Estimated cost per year for next 10 years:$ 2,131
*This assumes a doubling of average fuel costs, liability insurance inflation, and a new clutch.
Government deduction per mile for 2005: $.4317 (weighted average). This is great for my business.
So here is my lesson: get a reliable car (either new or used), take good care of it, and run it as long as possible!
So one question I have is at what point do you dump a used car? If the major mechanicals are ok I figure it's always worth putting tires, brake pads & rotors and other "consumables" on a vehicle. Even a clutch I could put justify for a manual trans. My most recent trade in 2004 I got rid of a '93 Buick with 140K. Could have ran it longer but the rocker panels were beginning to rust bad and other things were beginning to go wrong.
So what's your definition of forever? (Mine is until it costs more than $750)
Rust is a car killer for many people in the north with body work being fairly expensive to try and eliminate it. I don't really have that issue where I live.
Auto Tranny failure is also up there for early death of a car. And electrical gremlins in today's complex cars drive many to drink or sell.
Cost of repair has not been a huge issue for me as most repairs and service to date have been under $300. I will spring for the new clutch at $800-$1000. I might even spring for a remanufactured engine if that issue came up before 300K miles. That would be a $2-3K repair.
I like the new car forever idea as it gives you all the information about the car's repair and service history. With this knowledge and history, I trust that my car will perform well. I also have a sense of what could go wrong ahead of time because I know what parts I've replaced. I would no problem driving the Protege across country tomorrow.
Buying new is also very important with the 5-10% of us who use a clutch. Clutch wear varies tremendously by user.
One could also get much of this information in the used market from an honest one-owner private seller with records. By the time a car is on the third or later owner the history and trust of reliability go away (especially past 200K miles). That said, as third owners we did run an '88 Olds Delta 88 from 100K to 200K miles before serious issues crept up and forced us to junk for $50.
I consider myself a good and safe driver, so I downplay the need for new safety features like ABS, side curtain airbags or traction/stability control. In fact, I think some of these features reduce the long reliability and increase the cost of maintaining a car.
Your limit of $750 to maybe a thousand is what most people consider the end. Past $1K and I would give repairs serious thought. My hobby of DIY repairs (where my labor is not counted) also makes many problems or maintenance items more feasible for long-term ownership.
At the time I knew that paying $10k more wasn't going to be worth it, but now I realize I'm not going to keep my 2002 for as long as I would've kept a 2006. The depreciation differences lessen the cost differential.
I'm surprised that I wish I had a warranty. I've been good at doing my own repairs on the 12-yr old beaters I drove until a couple of months ago and even took pride in it... but I guess after driving those old cars I figured a 4-yr old car should be as good as new. It isn't quite true.
Outside of the car world I think I've regretted being a cheapskate much more often than I've regretted spending money. I'll be careful not to go to extremes, but I'm definitely learning my lesson.
http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/cars.html
Unless something crosses my path that I HAVE to have, I'm going to get a new Vibe or Tacoma within the next half year... I wish to be wooed with incentives :shades:
-Mathias
There is nothing that can't be fixed. You just have to ask yourself is it worth putting X dollars into that 10 year old car when you could put it towards something nicer and newer.
Per the buy new versus used, buying new will almost always cost you more than buying a late model used car.
For what it's worth, my last car purchased was a 03' Mercury Sable with 16k miles (ex-rental) that I bought when it was a year old for $10k in a dealer blow-out. The car was (and still is) immaculate. The car now has 71k miles and has not had a single problem. I estimate that my cost per mile is less than 10 cents/mile. Just try to do that with a new car !
When the car gets 100-120 k on it I'll sell it for what I can get and buy another clean low-mileage ex-rental.
I have.
1997 Nissan pickup, $10,500 + tax, sold w/ 57k on the clock for $5,700... almost 5 years later.
1998 Prizm, $9,300 OTD, trading in a $500 car; call it $9800. Sold 25k later for $7,300. These two were strippers with AC and not much else.
2004 Pontiac Vibe, $14k OTD, sold w/ 27k for $11,500.
My wife's '03 Sienna cost $21k, has 62k on the clock, and I could sell it on the street for $12. That's 15 cents a mile, but I've spent $1000 in upkeep and repair. Still, that's pretty good for what it is, and the used '98 I bought some years back wasn't any cheaper to run...
-Mathias
Didn't we already have this conversation ???
As I recall didn't you use some credit card rewards for those purchases. Just maybe that should be disclosed to the unsuspecting.
As you know most vehicles don't even come close. Also many people want a bigger car or truck than your examples.
Nonetheless, you are to be commended for your wise purchases.
Tell that to my wife...
This year, I bought a godawful Prizm that I flipped to a dealer -- that's how bad it was -- and took a $600 bath on... plus the taxes. That story is somewhere on CCBA, but I haven't had the heart to give the details.. just awful...
Then I bought a $300 pickup... fixed it myself for $30 (whoo-hoo!)....something broke... $400, had it done... something else broke... $400, had it done... exhaust broke... $15 and some elbow grease.... sold it for even money (yay!)... then the battery dies right at delivery and I'm out another $100...
There's a reason I'm evangelizing towards buying new. I'm only a genius when I'm lucky!
And yes, I've used the GM Card... but it ain't *my* money, and you can still get the card today...
-Mathias
I like that - Money for nothin' and your chicks for free !
My best rebate story is ...
I bought the loss leader ad car at a local dealer. I got a brand new 2003 Pontaic Sunfire. It was manual trans but had air conditioning and was trimed out very nicely. The out the door price including tax, license, and all the dealer fees was $6825 which included lots of GM card rebate credits. Clearly this isn't a deal that everyone could do.
I sold the Sunfire 8 months later with 11k miles for $7000.
Now what was my per mile cost ?
Well I have bought more used cars than just about anybody. I used to do it for entertainment. If you do this enough you will eventually run into a lemon car :lemon: . My lemon car was a 1995 Buick Riviera bought used with 110k miles on it. The car looked almost brand new. But Oh what a hassle it was. In 14 months of ownership it stranded me twice (almost three times) and broke regularly.
The final straw was when it threw a rod whilst I was on the freeway doing 70 mph. The rod went through the oil pan and oil spilled all over the hot exhaust. Remember those WWII movies where the tanks lay down a smoke screen ? Well that was my Buick.
I got it fixed and sold it after that. In hindsight I should have poured gasoline over it and torched it right there by the side of the freeway.
So now we drive new or nearly new cars like the Mercury posted about previously. It may cost some more but there are very few hassles. Life is short and who needs hassles ?
I do have a 21 year old Corvette that I drive on the weekends. It has it's issues but when it doesn't run well it just gets parked in the garage until I can get around to it.
I love this board, because I need a lot of advice! My husband insists that buying used is the way to go. I am not a practical car person; that is, I know I should buy a Honda or Toyota, but I want a Volvo or Infiniti or Saab (yes, I know, it's ridiculous). However, I'd buy a new car if it was stylish and fun to drive and not insanely expensive, like a Mini. Basically, I have no kids, will probably transport very little except my 2 pugs, and I drive maybe 5 miles back and forth to work. Also, I live in the Metro area of Minneapolis-St. Paul so we have cold weather, icy roads, lots of salt, all the really great driving conditions.
I have what I call a "VW" disorder in that I am always drawn to these damn Volkswagens but I know they are a nightmare (I had a Rabbit and a Fox!)
Any suggestions in the low-end used luxury category or something new that's not Honda/Toyota (sorry I don't like the Yaris or Fit)? I would like to spend less than $20M. I hope this is an ok question to ask. Thanks!!
ok... i'll assume $20K.
Volvo and Saab are not in the same category as Infiniti. To the best of my knowledge, Infiniti is quite a bit more reliable (although i'm a strong supporter of volvo).
5 miles in cold weather is highly abusive to a vehicle. So you definitely want something reliable that can take a beating. Honestly, for a 5 mile trip, I'm not sure why you care what it is. I could do 5 miles in a Yugo before I even realize what I'm doing.
If stylish, fun, and reliable are the 3 criteria, I suggest a Mazda3. If you really insist on some luxury ... well, that's tougher. I can't think of anything that's necessarily "fun" and "luxurious" while still being reliable, able to take the punishment of short trips in the cold every day, AND under $20k.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
sorry, yes, 20K. I work in purchasing and we use "M" to designate 1000.
I wish I had 20 mil to spend on something!
I'll take a look at the Mazda 3. I used to have a Nissan Truck and that thing was a nightmare when any mechanicals/maintenance was involved (the spark plugs were in a crazy place, the entire front grill had to be removed to change a headlight, etc.) and I guess I associate this weirdness with Mazda too but I really don't know anything about Mazda.
Thanks for your post!
I can. I bought one. It's a used Infiniti G35.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
wait ... did you and i discuss this before?? I think I was shocked at that time when you told me the price, too. I've yet to see one around here for that kind of money that didn't have ALOT of miles on it.
EDIT: ya know what? i'll have to take that back. I just went and searched in my area on autoshopper and found like 3 2003s for around $21k with ~40k miles.
'03 was the first year, I believe, correct?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
nope, I've never posted before. I'd be willing to go to $21 if it was a great car.
Thanks!
By the way, $21k would just be the asking price, so I figure that's easy enough to get below your $20k target, which is why I included up to $22k in my search.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mazda 3 would probably be a good choice.
And hooliagoolia, it's been a great car for me thus far, but it was exactly what I was looking for. All the toys (including my "must have" heated seats) that I wanted, plus it's comfortable and a reasonably sporty drive. No way to tell if it's right for you til you take a test drive, but I'd recommend driving the Infiniti G35 and the Mazda 3, as others have mentioned. Totally different vehicles, but both should fit the "fun" requirement.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I would like an opinion on whether it makes more financial sense to buy a 2006 at 1.9% interest rate and lower price or a 2007 at 4.9% at a higher price. I dislike the idea of paying more interest and the price would certainly be better on a new 2006 but maybe I should just get the newest model??? I'm wondering if I'll be losing more money by buying an older year new car.
Thanks!
Calculate the interest savings and add them to the price savings. The resale difference between the two down the road may be narrowed a bit (depending on you annual mileage) because the '06 will always have lower miles per year relative to its age. Lastly, unless there is a significant difference between the model years, you're getting into the same vehicle for less by going with the '06.
The slight differance in depreciation between the 2006 and 2007 will be gone after more then three years and you will only really see the lower interest rate savings if you keep the car for the majority of the length of the loan.
Thanks, Mark
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Or they have used 2006 Sedona LX with around 20K miles for $15,900. We would probably buy the extended warranty on that since we plan on keeping the car until it hits 100K miles +. So if you factor that into the price, the gap between a new and used 06 Sedona gets smaller. At what point do you buy used - $1000 difference b/t new and used, $500 difference...?
We've never bought a new car before so this is all new to me. On discounts that are a certain amount off MSRP, is that the final price or is there room to negotiate their MSRP down before applying the discount?
Edmunds has the TMV on a new 2006 LX (with the cross bars, roof rack and tow hitch) at $23334. I think the dealer is asking $24K - 25K plus cross bars and tow hitch.
Thanks!
But, as it is now I would suggest buying the new 2006 LX.
That's interesting that the $15,900 seems too much for a 20K mile '06 Sedona. We tried buying one earlier this week (before this latest round of rebates came out) that had 21K miles on it, with an asking price of $18,998. They wouldn't budge from their price but offered us $3800 for our trade-in (99 Ford Windstar w/ 115K miles).
I can't seem to find a used '06 Sedona any cheaper than the $15,900 doing the nationwide searches on the websites.
Maybe we should wait a few more months and see if the used ones come down in price?
Typically the mark-up on used cars is quite high. So, if you decide to go the used car route, I would check out the Purchasing Strategies and other buying tips discussions in the Smart Shopper board to brush up on negotiation strategy.
The $15,900 seemed a bit high to me, but could be o.k
The main thing is to take your time,and buy the vehicle you want at the price you want to pay.
The used 06 LX they had was going to be about $2K less but have 15K miles on it. Plus, we were going to add an extended warranty on it for another $1000. So that narrowed the gap even more.
We're looking at the car and nailing down all the fees and such today so we'll see if this deal pans out.
Thanks so much for your advice!
2 years later. Happy surprise! Only repairs are about $300 to replace front seat belts and $30 for a radio antenna. That's it! I don't drive more than 5,000-6000 miles a year. But this has been my most trouble free car ever! (Compared to several minivans, Corollas, Fords, Dodges). It does tend to eat gas and gets poor mileage but it hardly matters for my driving. I was worried that the daily stop and go driving in short trips would beat on the car. But it looks in great condition. The leather seats look better than those of our friends' six year old Lincoln. The paint outside still gleams (I detail it myself). And as for the drive -- nothing I have tried, new or used, compares for smoothness of ride combined with quiet power.
Maybe this is just luck, but given my experience (and this would be true even if the car suddenly turned to scrap in the next two years) this is a much better deal than a new or almost new family sedan. I mean, if a new Buick or Honda cost 22k and had to be replaced every 8-10 years and a used LS400 lasted only 4-5 years, the latter would still be a bargain and an all around better driving experience. As it is, this cheapskate plans to drive this baby for years -- or until the repairs get frequent and painful.
No one around here in my local area could get close to it. They even brought over the Gen. Mgr. - and I was shocked by the way she treated us. As if we were lying about the price quote from the other out of town dealer. She told us she couldn't pay the rent or keep her lights on if she sold us the car at that price. Um, yeah right.
So we travelled the next day and brought home our Sedona. When our local dealer called to see if we wanted to come in and "talk" again, we politely told them that we already bought a car. He asked so we told him that our salesperson that sold us our car, sold six others that day. I'm not sure what a typical day is like but selling 7 cars in 8 hours sounds like a pretty good day to me!
Thanks again for the insight!
$18K for an extended length minivan in mid trim, that is going to put some pricing pressure on Honda and Toyota. I believe you can find Chrysler extended minivans "on sale" for about the same price.
How times change. We looked at the Kia back in '01 when we bought our minivan. It was small and had terrible gas milage. Now the Kia is big and a real competitor.
For comparison, we paid $20.7K in 2001 for our new extended Olds Silo. Honda/Toyota minivans at the time were $23-$25K for comparable equipment. The Hondas were all pre-sold and the last generation Toyota was small like the Kia.
Drove by the Honda dealer the other day and saw many new vans on the lot. It's a buyer's market for minivans today!
What I wonder is if the investment for the sebring would be worthwhile as I have also been thinking to buy a new car down the road-- either a used mercedes convertible, older celica is nice, bmw or audi. I would want the most economical on repairs and maintenance and the best body and wonder what year and model would be the best purchase and how long more i should keep the sebring. Suggestions?
During that time, look at different models of cars so you will know exactly what kind of car you want to replace the Sebring.