What are your thoughts on vehicle warranties?

eltonroneltonron Member Posts: 33
edited March 2014 in GMC
Feel free to share your thoughts regarding vehicle warranties in general here. For a discussion related to GM vehicles specifically, please feel free to join the GM Warranty discussion via the following link: GM- 100,000-mile warranty starts now.

Enjoy the discussions and thanks for your participation!

EltonRon
Automotive News & Views Host
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Comments

  • wlbrown9wlbrown9 Member Posts: 867
    Not that big a deal. When I bought my first NEW car back in the '70s, 12 month/12,000 miles was the standard warranty.

    The 2004 Envoy XL we bought came with a 36/36,000 warranty. For a little over $1000 I extended that to 60 months, 90,000 miles (GM bumper to bumper with either $50 or $100 deductible). I figured that into the total pricing of the vehicle. The longer powertrain warranty 'should' reduce the cost of extending the warranty somewhat. With all the power options and computerized stuff on these vehicles, I don't feel confortable without the extended warranty (insurance).

    I also have a '00 Trooper that still has 15,000 miles left on the 120,000 mile powertrain warranty. Has been nice to have that to fall back on if the engine or tranny goes out, but there are many other things that could go out and be real expensive to fix. When I replace the Trooper, you can bet I will seriously consider the extended warranty to cover myself. Does it really matter if you include $6-800 in the price and bump the warranty or purchase separately as long as you get the coverage you want? Some folks feel the extra $$$ are not well spent, personally I like the insurance if I can get it for a reasonable price.
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    "For a little over $1000 I extended that to 60 months, 90,000 miles (GM bumper to bumper with either $50 or $100 deductible). "

    I paid $210 for a 7 year/ 100K miles bumper-to-bumper on my new Honda CR-V. Thank God that I didn't buy a GM - if I did I would have no choice but to spend thousands for the extended coverage. In fact, I traded in a Blazer - I paid $1700 for a 5 year/ 75K miles coverage on the Blazer.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well, only one half of the warranty changes; that of the drivetrain. A good lot of my woes with a GM car did not involve the drivetrain. If half the things which fail are not related to the drivetrain, then basically your luck runs out at 36K. The warranty is better than Honda, but worse than other car manufacturers. And then there is this little giant called Hyundai, with a much better warranty. Will anyone in the press point out that only half the warranty has changed? So far, I think most people have been given the impression that the whole car is covered for 5 yrs. or 100K - but it is not.

    I guess with the Honda or GM you could negotiate in a warranty for bumper to bumper, along with a discount. Only car I can think of off hand in the GM line which is close to actual worth, as in sticker price being real, is perhaps the Solstice if found for $21K. A Caddy CTS, at around $30K, and matching warranty to Hyundai, may be a good enough deal. Oh well, if a person wants a CTS, in another years time when the next generation CTS hits the showrooms, Caddy owners will want the next new toy, and perhaps resale prices will drop lower on the first generation models, than they currently have. The CTS held pretty much higher than the rest of the Caddy line... so far.

    Someone on TV was saying gas will go back to $1.30 per gallon. Well maybe, if the Great Depression II hits home. When most people are walking, and have sold off their autos, gas may return to $1.30. Oh I suppose some new technology could come about and cause a lowering of gas prices. I will stay the course expecting $3 to $5 per gallon prices, and buy cars with that in mind. I see where some say they are cutting corners elsewhere and driving the same. Hey, driving is fun. I am cutting out expanded TV on cable. Heck, I could stop eating......... as much, or find cheaper places. I just don't know where it stops on gas prices. If it is $2-$3, then maybe, just maybe those cars which get 25 MPG to 27 MPG on the freeway are not too bad. But, if gas goes up to $3.50 to $5, the cars which get 30 to 40MPG on the freeway are gonna look much better again.
    -Loren
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Manufacturers do not offer the extended warranties.

    They are offered by third party companies under license (when a third party company offers something under license, that means it has the right to offer something in the name of the manufacturer) to the manufacturer. Most manufacturers license the rights to offer extended warranties to more than one third party warranty provider.

    In other words, the price is not beholden to the make of the car but rather the warranty provider chosen by the dealer. Shopping around makes all the sense in the world.

    You will probably get a chance to see how good your third party comapny a couple of times when the CRV windshield cracks, a known issue with the cars that Honda nevertheless refuses to recall.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Never liked that name - CRV. In California, that stands for California Refund Value, as in price you get when you return an aluminum can. Hummm, wonder what the refund value is on a CRV car?

    Never owned a Honda, except for a motorcycle. Good engine builder. They keep running like the Eveready Bunny. CRV should be a good vehicle.
    -Loren
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    Well, I paid $1700 to GM for 5 year/ 75K miles Major Guard protection for my Blazer. Fuel pump failed - GM didn't pay. The alternator got short-circuited and led to massive electrical failure. GM paid for the alternator, but I paid for battery and other things that the alternator took down with it. The shocks failed and GM said that was normal wear/ tear! The tranny failures, front wheel bearing failure, transfer case failure, dashboard instrumentation failure were covered. I doubt whether GM made any profits - numerous repairs probably ate up $1700. I AM REALLY SORRY THAT I CAN'T SAY NICER THINGS ABOUT GM.

    I bought 7 year/ 100K mile bumper-to-bumper coverage (excludes battery, tires, brakes and other things that wear out due to rusting) on my Honda CR-V from GEICO, my insurance company. And, I paid just $210. My GEICO coverage is already in effect - so, if I need a repair within first 3 years, I can either use either the GEICO warranty or the manufacturer warranty from Honda.

    Either GM vehicles are lousy or GM overcharges customer for protection or both. Again, this is my opinion.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    So say some.

    Today, I actually dropped my current zipcar service in favor of the original service.

    The primary reason for the switch was that my current service uses only Hondas (near my flat that means '06 Civic, normal and hybrid and Elements). They are a not for profit and Honda donated the cars. Whatever, I got sick of driving the Civics and the Element was an ungainly awkward thing to drive.

    The original zipcar service offers a lot of vehicles, including Fords and GMs. Plus I can use it when I go to Chicago, LA and San Francisco. (they have Minis and GM pick ups on the West Coast)
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Well, I paid $1700 to GM for 5 year/ 75K miles Major Guard protection for my Blazer. Fuel pump failed - GM didn't pay. The alternator got short-circuited and led to massive electrical failure. GM paid for the alternator, but I paid for battery and other things that the alternator took down with it. The shocks failed and GM said that was normal wear/ tear! The tranny failures, front wheel bearing failure, transfer case failure, dashboard instrumentation failure were covered. I doubt whether GM made any profits - numerous repairs probably ate up $1700. I AM REALLY SORRY THAT I CAN'T SAY NICER THINGS ABOUT GM.

    You must not have paid attention to my post.

    If the problem happened after the base warranty, the extended warranty that turned you down was not GM, but a licensed warranty provider.

    For all you know, the extended warranty you have on the CRV is from the same company that provided the Blazer warranty.

    And you have no idea whether the extended warranty will turn you down in a few years when your windshield cracks after the Honda warranty expires. Come back then and report, please.
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    "If the problem happened after the base warranty, the extended warranty that turned you down was not GM, but a licensed warranty provider. "

    I understand GM was selling warranty on someone else's behalf. But I paid GM and I hold GM responsible.

    Also, why warranty cost for Honda CR-V is so little compared to that for a Blazer? Remember I paid $1700 for Blazer's 5 year/ 75,000 miles coverage in 1999, which is more than $2000 in today's dollars. And, I just paid $210 for CR-V's 7 year/ 100K miles coverage. ACCORDING TO YOU, THE SAME COMPANY IS SELLING THE WARRANTIES AND THE COST SHOULDN'T BE SO DIFFERENT UNLESS THE BLAZER IS REALLY A QUALITY NIGHTMARE!
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    I hate the CRV name and all names like this. It makes me feel that Honda ran out of names. If I become rich someday and stop caring about resale values and stuff like that, I may buy a Caddy (I still have some American bias despite being a foreigner and owned 2 GM vehicles - I studied in the US and have been working for American employers; my first non-GM vehicle was Mazda Protege and Mazda is still owned partly by Ford, and the next one will probably be a Mazda6). I just hope Caddy will drop lousy 3 letter names before that. Lexus is RX, Caddy is SRX,... and, now Acura has RDX named after an explosive that is used by Al-Qaeda for killing people.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Someone on TV was saying gas will go back to $1.30 per gallon. Well maybe, if the Great Depression II hits home. When most people are walking, and have sold off their autos, gas may return to $1.30

    Already $2.34 here and they say it will still drop. In fact in late August the "media" said it would go below $2.50 by the end of September. Here it is Sep. 6 and we flew by it. They just found a new oil source in the golf that is the biggest find in 39 years. (Prudhoe bay) it will boost our reserves by 50%.

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060906/BIZ/609060314/1001

    Of course the experts are now saying gas will stay low for quite awhile! Wern't they just saying it would stay over $3????

    There was also an article in the paper that with a big truck the difference between $3.07 and todays price is about $30 bucks a month (1000 miles.) Thats a couple cups of starbucks isn't it? ;) I do not drink coffee.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I understand GM was selling warranty on someone else's behalf. But I paid GM and I hold GM responsible.

    GM may have sold you a warranty. GMAC has extended warranties. But the independent dealers can also offer other companies warranties.

    http://www.gmprotectionplan.com/about_plans.html

    Also $210 sounds like very cheap insurance. Great deal. Too bad the company will be out of money and go broke before you can use them. ;) A set of shocks will probably cost at least $200 and in 100,000 miles even with Honda there may be a few things that might go wrong. Does seem awful inexpensive. Heck I think they want that much for a 5 year refrigerator plan.

    There is a forum here discussing purchase extended warranties. http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/[email protected]@.ef165ca/20

    One good thing about the new GM powertrain warraty is that the purchased extended warranties will be a lot cheaper.
  • atlvibeatlvibe Member Posts: 109
    An improved warranty does not guarantee increased sales. Just look at Mitsubishi for example. They increased the warranty coverage to a 10yr /100,000 powertrain. Sales have remained flat if I understand correct. IMO, GM is headed in the right direction, but will consumers buy into the program? The blog on USA TODAY about GM's increased coverage was all over the board. Many posted never again GM while other applauded GM's efforts. It's a marketing tool, nothing else. For GM's long term survival people will have to actually desire more of their product. Which makes me wonder about when the host is going to hammer us about not talking about styling. Anymore new model CTS or Malibu pictures other than those camouflage ones already posted?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The never again GMer's will take a lot to convince. Perhaps their children will buy GM to spite them??
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Mitsubishi never really maintained any momentum, or perhaps never got the ball really rolling at all. Dealerships, failing to sell cars simply gave up. Not enough dealerships left these days, and the one we have locally looks to be a bit shaky -- not sure they are here to stay. The new dealership is under new management - hummm? And the product line is not all that solid. The Galant always seemed to be anywhere from a hit in first rendition, to not a bad choice in reviews, but was always the " also ran car " just like a Chevy Malibu. Just another FWD car, unlike the big players of Accord and Camry. The warranty was seen as needed do to quality issues, and un-reported issues. It is just one thing after another. The Eclipse and 3000/Stealth were both fun cars. The latest Eclipse is interesting to look at. Not a leader in any fashion, but a good looking car still. A bit heavy looking in the hips. I hope they can build their dealership base.

    I think Hyundai needs a few more dealers too. Not sure why they do not sell more cars, but it could be the dealerships and that horrible first years. But then again, GM had horrible years too. All things being equal, the warranty is at least better at Hyundai.
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The new oil find may help three years from today. That is a long wait. They are drilling as much as seven miles now, the way I heard it, which is something new. I would not count on $1.30 or $2.50 gas for long. Hope it stays below $3.50 ( at least in Calif. ) and if it goes lower, count your blessings. Gas here, today is a bit over the $3.00 and upwards to $3.30 at some stations for Premium. It could fall to $2.75 or lower this Winter, but will rise again by next Summer, as sure as Starbucks will be selling coffee.

    If the housing market crashes in a very big way, and the US economy goes into a recession, gas may go sub $2 or sub $2.50, would be my prediction. IF there is a depression, then we may have $1.25 per gallon gas, and apples being sold on the corner. Maybe Ipod Apples. ;) If the economy holds here and in China, gas should hold above $3 per gallon, as in people still being able to afford to drive and having a job to drive to.
    -Loren
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    I understand GM was selling warranty on someone else's behalf. But I paid GM and I hold GM responsible.

    No. You do no understand. At least not from what this comment shows. You paid a third party for the warranty and the independent dealer for the commission.

    lso, why warranty cost for Honda CR-V is so little compared to that for a Blazer? Remember I paid $1700 for Blazer's 5 year/ 75,000 miles coverage in 1999, which is more than $2000 in today's dollars. And, I just paid $210 for CR-V's 7 year/ 100K miles coverage. ACCORDING TO YOU, THE SAME COMPANY IS SELLING THE WARRANTIES AND THE COST SHOULDN'T BE SO DIFFERENT UNLESS THE BLAZER IS REALLY A QUALITY NIGHTMARE!

    Again, completely wrong. There are many factors leading to the price of an extended warranty. Little of whih have to do with the product.

    You do not provide the details of the two warranties. You say your current warranty is from GEICO. You do not let us know whether you have a GEICO insurance policy or otherwise qualify for a GIECO discount. Nor have you made a claim on your GEICO warranty. How can you know right now what GEICO may or may not say to you six years from now when you make a claim on your policy? You may found you got what you paid for.

    Six years ago, the business may not have had as many competitors, or may not have been as well regulated where you bought. The real question is what would GEICO have charged for the same product on a Blazer the same year as your CR-V? You cannot answer that, because you did not buy both at the same time.

    The conclusions you draw or without merit.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Anymore new model CTS or Malibu pictures other than those camouflage ones already posted?

    LA Auto Show is closing in. Be nice to see some new sheet metal.

    Things are getting awfully redundant here.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    All things being equal, the warranty is at least better at Hyundai.

    Ahh, but is it? Depends on who is buying. Hyundai is only 10 years/100,000 miles if the original owner keeps it that long. If they sell the car the long warranty is not transferable. If sold it is 5/60k. I guess we could say that for 75% of buyers (sell before 5 years) the powertrain warranties are equal (to GM) unless you drive more than 60,000 miles in 5 years.

    They do have a great 5 year/60K bumper to bumper which I think is the best in the business.

    So I guess I can agree that for almost every new buyer the Hyundai warranty is arguably better. However a used buyer looking at a 3-4 year old car that has a lot of miles on it and/or will put a lot of miles on it, may see the 100k powertrain warranty as better.

    In the end I think a new buyer comparing the GM to Hyundai warranties would give a nod to Hyundai. But then again I think GM is more worried about the other competitors out there like Ford/Chrysler/Toyota/Accord.

    Covers repair or replacement of powertrain components (i.e. selected Engine and Transmission/Transaxle components), originally manufactured or installed by Hyundai that are defective in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance. Coverage applies to Original Owner only effective with 2004 Model Year and newer model year vehicles. On 1999-2003 Model Years, coverage applies to Original Owner and immediate family members (i.e. wife, husband, daughter, son, stepdaughter, stepson).

    Second and/or subsequent owners have powertrain components coverage under the 5 year / 60,000 mile New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Excludes coverage for vehicles in commercial use (i.e. taxi, route delivery, delivery service, rental, etc.).
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Doubt if we will ever see $1.30/gallon again unless some alternative "fuel" is developed and the demand for oil drops significantly. Keeping under $3 should be easy for a long time. How come California gas is so expensive??

    Per the gas finder the price in LA is now just under $3 and here it is $2.50
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,691
    $2.21
    at many area stations. I realize it's probably not going to stay this way after November election, but it will be nice while it's here.

    Does anyone have a link to the price for barrel of oil vs price for gallon gas to see if gas should be lower than it is based on price per barrel?

    I believe a lower price now will help car sales of realistic cars. It may not help SUV sales because most sane people realize we're probably going to pay the $3 per gallon rather than $2.25 price in the future, but it should help sales of cars in the moderate economy gas range, which includes many GM cars.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    "One good thing about the new GM powertrain warraty is that the purchased extended warranties will be a lot cheaper. "

    Good point - I didn't realize this. Customers will now be able to get 5 year bumper-to-bumper for lot less because powertrain would be covered by GM.

    FYI, I bought the warranty on CR-V from GEICO, my insurance company - the assumption is that I would be sticking to GEICO for insurance during these 7 years and GEICO will make profit one way or the other.
  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYMember Posts: 2,188
    The difference in the warranty prices between the CRV and Blazer has to do with the company's experience paying expenses and assumptions about future expenses.

    All insurance works basically the same way. The insurance company will make assumptions about how much claims they will pay out. This is probably based on past experience and their own in-house engineers' opinions about frequency of claims and dollar amount of each claim.

    The premiums that they receive must cover the expenses of the claims that they will cover. If they determine that a Blazer represents a greater risk than a CRV (why would they think that?) the premium for that car will be higher. This is the same reason why a smoker pays more for life insurance than a non-smoker.

    Our friend with the CRV probably could have negotiated the price on the Blazer's warranty better, but there is a legitimate reason why the price would be higher.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    It also looks likes lahiri got a deal because of the car insurance connection.

    I tried to find a site that advertised extended warranties with cost but could not find one. Sounds like a fishy business!
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    $2.21 at many area stations. I realize it's probably not going to stay this way after November election, but it will be nice while it's here.

    Does this mean that if the Democrats win the House they will connive with the oil companies to raise gas prices? I guess that this makes sense since they are always wanting to take more of our paychecks with bigger taxes and other schemes.

    Picture of GMC Arcadia in recent car mag. Pretty good styling, but probably will be priced too high. GM crossovers should help improve overall sales as people realize that these are more sensible sized vehicles than the larger GM suvs. Of course, people that can afford high gas prices still will be buying large GM suvs.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,691
    I'd like to see the Geico interpretation of some of the exclusion terms in the contract vs the way we would readthe exclusions.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Extended warranties and maintenance agreements are licenses to print money.

    I note that no one has offered any evidence as to what GEICO would have charged Lahiri for an extended warranty on an '06 Blazer.

    Or whether Lahiri is a government employee or veteran, thus able to get discounts on GEICO (Government Employee Insurance Co.) policies.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I doubt if anyone could get the price unless they bought the actual vehicle. Unfortunately I think of the extended warranties on cars the same way I do on appliances.

    The dealer probably is in the best position. he gets his cut when he sells the contract and gets his cut if any service is done on the car if they bring it back to the dealership.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    The dealer probably is in the best position. he gets his cut when he sells the contract and gets his cut if any service is done on the car if they bring it back to the dealership.

    My understanding is that at least with some of the extended warranties, the Dealer is free to set any price the consumer will pay. The Dealer has to pay an agreed amount to the warranty company. Anything else, the Dealer keeps along with the commission.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    lahiri said that the extended warranty was "major guard". That is GM's extended warranty, not a third party extended warranty. GM does have an extended warranty plan, which has diffent coverages depending on what you want to spend and what you concerns may be. Bumper to bumper coverage is most expensive, but plans to cover the powertrain only are also available at lower costs. Dealer also have other plans that are not GM's, which may be cheaper, but have more restrictions.
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    This is where I start to get really confused.

    A consumer (and I am included in this pack) has significant problems with a vehicle and condemns American vehicles as "bad" using corrobative information from Consumer Reports. In comes the Honda and Toyota vehicles with their purported amazing quality. A consumer pays about $1-2 K above the other cars in that class for getting the Honda or Toyota nameplate (in the form of reduced discounts, unwanted options or just a higher MSRP). For that extra $, the perception is that the car will be trouble-free for 5 or 6 years.

    Why throw away money on an extended warranty? Didn't you just "solve" the problem of poor reliability by getting a Honda or a Toyota? Is there something that I'm missing? I know that a car salesman will tell a consumer that if a computer chip fails it will cost a lot of money and the extended warranty will cover it. Well if the computer chip does fail, that is a flaw and I will not be getting another Toyota. Why should I spend ANOTHER $ 1-2 K on an extended warranty? I just spent $1-2 K for the expectation of better reliability when I bought the car.

    On another note, I agree with Lahiri on the GM warranty. It is a smoke-screen. With the perceived reliability issues that GM currently faces, GM should have extended the bumper to bumper warranty to 5 years - 60 K.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I recently read that synthetic fuels can be made out of coal at a cost of about $1 per gallon. The problem is that if the US were to start making a lot of synthetic fuel, the price of oil would drop to a point where the synthetic would cost to much and the vast investment in plants to make the product would be unprofitable.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,691
    >A consumer pays about $1-2 K above the other cars in that class for getting the Honda or Toyota nameplate (in the form of reduced discounts, unwanted options or just a higher MSRP). For that extra $, the perception is that the car will be trouble-free for 5 or 6 years.

    You're right on the track. Let's travel further. GM failed by not selling more total extra 100Kmile warranties at their dealerships. Honda/Toyota buyers around here typically buy the long warranty on a "perfect" car then if they do have problems, It's covered under the extra cost that they paid at the beginning, even though they were buying a 'wunderkar' to begin with. Result happy customer who paid a lot extra for the extra pack options, the dealer add-on charges, the distributor extra charge, the dealer doc fees, etc... Lots extra. But the extended bumper-to-bumper warranty made them happy because it covered more and kept irritation down.

    If GM improved their extra cost extended warranty sales everyone would be happier.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    With the perceived reliability issues that GM currently faces, GM should have extended the bumper to bumper warranty to 5 years - 60 K.

    So people are supposed to use the corrobative evidence for ToyHon but GM should be stuck with perceptions?

    The warranty is better than ToyHons. GM just has to keep its upward quality drive going. Especially with Toy's recent spiral, GM will have both better corrabative and warranty.
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    "whether Lahiri is a government employee or veteran"

    None! I bought Blazer's Major Guard warranty from GM and CR-V's warranty from GEICO - so, it's difficult to compare the prices. Part of the reason CR-V's coverage is cheaper is that I have GEICO policies (car insurance).

    In fact, as some of you pointed out, buying a reliable warranty and figuring out exclusions aren't easy. This is why I felt GM could step in with a 4 year bumper to bumper and 6 year powertrain (like Lexus warranty).

    A Toyota like 5 year powertrain warranty at this point is no big deal. But Wagoner is too slow to understand that. When I bought my Blazer, GM's marketshare was 33% and it is already below 25%. Wagoner wants us to think that GM is turning a corner - well, he wants to save his job. He claims that warranty repairs are down by 40% at GM - but the truth is YTD sales are down 12%. I still don't see customers trading in Camrys for Malibus. Wagoner says that "perception has not caught up with reality (reality = GM has improved quality)" - clever way of saying customers are stupid. Hello Mr. CEO, we aren't! It's unbelievable how a bad management is destroying GM and using legacy costs as excuses to cover its rear-end. GM would be profitable despite all legacy costs if its marketshare didn't shrink from 33% to 25%. Chevy Subarban factory in Wisconsin employed many of my friends and that was the reason I bought a Blazer - and, I still feel proud that I supported my friends. But I can't afford to support this lousy management any more. I'll wait till this management goes before I buy my next GM vehicle.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    This is why I felt GM could step in with a 4 year bumper to bumper and 6 year powertrain (like Lexus warranty).

    There is no rational basis for positing that GM's return to financial health should be to offer warranties on all its cars that equal those which Toyota only offers on its most expensive cars.

    GM would be profitable despite all legacy costs if its marketshare didn't shrink from 33% to 25%.

    No. Not if having 33% market share requires significant fleet sales. It costs more to keep US factories going than can be made selling at bargain prices to fleet buyers.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    GM's market share is much too high and can't be supported unless they are able to sell vehicles at a much lower price than the competition while still maintaining a comparable product. In the 1960's GM's market share was about 50% because they set prices and because they had better quality than Chrysler. GM's current competition is as good as they are, and there are more choices now, so GM's current market share is a legacy of the past. With the current players in the auto industry, I would say than 15% of the market is about where any of the main players can expect to be, all things being equal.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    "Here we go again," as Reagan used to say.

    Trotting out the tired old generalities.

    Let's travel further. GM failed by not selling more total extra 100Kmile warranties at their dealerships. Honda/Toyota buyers around here typically buy the long warranty on a "perfect" car then if they do have problems, It's covered under the extra cost that they paid at the beginning, even though they were buying a 'wunderkar' to begin with. Result happy customer who paid a lot extra for the extra pack options, the dealer add-on charges, the distributor extra charge, the dealer doc fees, etc... Lots extra. But the extended bumper-to-bumper warranty made them happy because it covered more and kept irritation down.

    For the record, all 3 of my former and current Camrys have indeed been "wunderkars." And I refused to pay for an extended warranty. On the most recent purchase my wife specifically asked the salesman that we NOT EVEN MEET with the F&I guy, because we weren't interested in his spiel (and we were financing the car through our credit union).

    And in NONE of the 3 instances did I pay for "extra pack options, the dealer add-on charges, [and] the distributor extra charge." (I don't live in the notorious SE states Toyota region.) I did (reluctantly) pay a doc fee (we call it a "processing fee" here), but what dealer doesn't try to charge this today? BTW, it was $228 for the current two Camrys I own.

    And the price I paid for the Camrys wasn't a whole lot more than for a comparable Malibu (ignoring last summer's fire sale).
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,691
    > a whole lot more than for a comparable Malibu

    Did you go price what a dealer would sell one for, discount, rebates, and all?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAMember Posts: 15,261
    Geeze, I wouldn't even be looking at a Camry or a Malibu in the first place. Those aren't the type of cars anybody WANTS TO buy but HAS TO. I would look forward to driving a Malibu like I would look forward to eating a plate of cold brussels sprouts - that is unless the Malibu is a 1970 Chevelle Malibu SS 396!
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    In 1997, we looked at the then all-new Malibu, and my wife didn't like it. She had the same problem as snakeweasel (I don't know if he frequents this board): She felt the door panel was too encroaching on her space. So we didn't go further, but I knew approximately the cost (we got the invoice information in paper form at work).

    In 2004, after having such good luck with the '97, we really only seriously considered the Camry (with side airbags this time because of this), but my aunt and uncle were shopping (and purchased) the '04 Malibu at my recommendation, since he won't consider "foreign" cars. I did some of the legwork pricewise and I know what he paid for the car. (Ironically, most Camrys are made in my uncle's native state of Kentucky.)

    In 2005, it was a no-brainer to get another Camry (the 2004 went with our son to L.A. after I shopped in vain for a decent used car -- Malibus included -- with SIDE CURTAIN AIRBAGS). The deal this time was to get a power passenger seat for my wife, who gets back aches while sitting on long trips. In the Camry XLE, an 8-way power seat was standard, but no power pass. seat was available on any Malibu.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Excuuuuuse me, but I happen to like practicality more than ostentation.

    If I bought within GM, it would be a Chevy or Saturn for value.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    It does address one item that was responsible for massive sales losses - the gasket problems. If those are covered, then people will start to see GM as being worthy of a second look.

    Yes - almsot everyone knows about the problems. You can't find a 3-5 year old used Buick with the dex-cool in it that isn't brown and/or sludgy - and everyone knows it.

    Oh, look - the intake maniford ate itself at 80K miles... Oh well - not my problem...

    P.S. you'll note that Hyundai's warranty now only covers 100K miles if the original purchaser is the only driver. It's all smoke an marketing. GM - they'll stand by them.

    BTW, my 87 LeSabre lasted until 16 years and 137K miles before it needed major engine work. My mother's 2001 LeSabre by comparison is rapidly approaching 100K miles and still drives very much like new. Totally bulletproof if boring engines.

    Plus, $3000-$3500 to fix a Camry or Lexus automatic? The GM 4-speed is nothing if not inexpensive to fix. I know places that will rebuild one for $800 here in Los Angeles.

    I'd have bought the Malibu based upon that alone. With a 100K mile drivetrain warranty, that's a free transmission at 80-90K!

    Lstly - about the RX-8, it's NOT A SPORTSCAR. It looks like one, but it's a sports-sedan liek the Audi A4 is. Very nice and so what if the rear doors are suicide-style? It's fun and you see very few of them on the road compared to Camrys.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Very nice and so what if the rear doors are suicide-style

    do you have to open the front doors to open the rear doors? What a pain for a family if so.

    besides its ugly!!! IMO
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,691
    ScionTc

    >90% of your Scion, you will run into the most bizarre warranty issue I ever saw. After complaining to Scion Corp about it I got the following official response. -- "Dealerships are independently owned franchises who will warrant Scion supplied accessories that become necessary due to a manufacturers defect. However, they are not required to warrant another dealerships work. If you are experiencing concerns on your dealership installed alarm, I would recommend taking your vehicle to the dealership where you had the alarm installed.. ." Unlike a Toyota where you get factory options delivered with your new car, Scion makes you have a lame dealer install them.

    So tell me again what's wrong with GM's lengthening their powertrain warranty? At least they stand behind it.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "So tell me again what's wrong with GM's lengthening their powertrain warranty? At least they stand behind it."

    I think there's a slight difference between a manufacturer's powertrain warranty and a warranty on dealer installed accessories. Unless, of course, you consider GM powertrains to BE a dealer installed accessory......?

    But now I'm curious: if you have a dealer-installed accessory on a GM vehicle, does the warranty on that item cover the installation regardless of where it was installed?

    BTW - kudos to GM for extending their warranty. Personally, I think it's a huge step in the right direction.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    But now I'm curious: if you have a dealer-installed accessory on a GM vehicle, does the warranty on that item cover the installation regardless of where it was installed?

    yes, as long as it was a GM dealer. click on peace of mind when it comes up. I canonly assume that the Buick/Cadillac vehicle acc. warranty would be 4 years.

    http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/accessoriesjsp/home.jsp
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well I beg to differ. Hyundai warranty is spelled out plain terms:
    http://www.hyundaiusa.com/global/warranty/warranty.aspx
    This is longer bumper to bumper warranty, and the secondary owner does get a 5 year / 60K warranty. The GM warranty is only a half measure. What is to cover all the other problems with the car after 36K miles? Seems to fall some 24K short. And what of the 100,000 miles warranty, which is for 5 yrs, and 5 yrs. shorter. Simply talking warranty here and not which car is better.

    As for the RX-8, I would class it as a four seater sports car. It will out handle the A4, and has the correct drive wheels. It is a sedan in that it has a door which opens, but is really more coupe like. It goes beyond a grand touring in handling. It is really in a class of its own. If they made one in a non-rotary version which got a few more MPG, I may consider one. Don't care for the gas mileage and having to add oil.
    -Loren
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Thanks.

    Seems like Toyota should step up to the plate then and warranty the installation performed by the Scion dealers and not just the parts.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    That new oil find will not be pumping oil until at least the year 2010 and by then the USA will still be dependent on over 50% of foreign oil. I just read this (but I don't remember where).
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