Well, I'm glad the CR-V fits your needs. Way too small for what we wanted. Even the Pilot did not fit the bill with the 3-rd row seating only large enough for children. The Envoy XL offered what we needed...Honda had nothing to match that or at least nothing to fit our needs. Looking at the Pilot the net pricing looks to be in the same vicinity of what we paid for the Envoy XL including the extended warranty.
So, I could have bought a Honda that did not fit my needs or a GMC that does. I'm satisfied with my choice. When I'm ready to replace my Trooper in the next 6-24 months or so, I'll look around and see what fits my needs. I'm leaning toward the Acadia but will have to actually test one and see what the pricing runs when they hit the streets. I like the size (7-8 passenger, almost the size of the Yukon) with better gas mileage, if I still need that large a vehicle. Honda have anything to approach that in size and utility?
You have little choice besides big 3 if you want big RWD (4WD if equipped with the option) trucks. If I were you, I would take advantage of Chrysler's big incentives and buy a Grand Cherokee (nothing against GM brands, just love the way Grand Cherokee looks).
I suggest you test-drive Mazda CX7 as well if you want crossovers - Edmunds' reviewers loved the vehicle. I guess Acadia/ Enclave will compete head-on with CX7, Edge, B9 and V6 RAV4.
I like the size (7-8 passenger, almost the size of the Yukon) with better gas mileage, if I still need that large a vehicle. Honda have anything to approach that in size and utility?
Yep, its called an Odyssey. Seats 8 (7 comfortably), gets 19-27 MPG, has a 3.5L V-6 with about 250 horsepower, and starts in the mid-$20ks, and that price includes all the stnadard safety features (Stability Control, Front, Side, and Head Curtain Airbags for all rows, Anti-Lock Brakes, Electronic Brake-force Distribution, Tire Pressure Monitor, etc...) It also has more cargo capacity (by 40 cubic feet!) than a (2007)Yukon, has split-folding third-row seats that easily fold into the floor, and removable second-row seating as well. The (2007)Yukon is also longer than the Odyssey.
So, the Yukon is bigger outside, smaller inside than this van. Kinda funny, really.
If this vehicle won't work, may I ask what you are towing that is over 3,500 pounds or how much off-roading you do?
Don't really like mini-vans...had an early Nissan Quest..pretty good, but would rather stay with the SUV type. Towing (occasionally) utility trailer with up to 5000 pounds...locally and usually not that much though.
We had a '99 then '00 Grand Cherokee...rotors warped every 5-15 thousand miles. Window regulators dying, replaced rear gears or bearings. D/C refused to consider covering brakes at 14K miles...12K warranty on brakes. Later issued a recall and I think there is a large class action suit about these. They burned their bridges with us on ANY vehicle from Damiler Chrysler. The Grand is also 5 passenger max. Commander has the 3rd row seat. I would jump into a Pilot long before the Commander and if I remember the reviews correctly the Pilot has as useful a 3rd row as the Commander. I don't think either is rated for adults. I'm 6'1" and about 200 pounds. I've ridden in the 3rd row seat in the Envoy XL for as much as 2 hours at a time in comfort. Yukon, Expedition or several of the mini-vans but none of the other mid-sized SUV type vehicles allow that.
The Acadia is much larger than the CX7 and RAV4, not sure about the Edge or B9.
The Sequoia and Armada would probably be more in the size class of the Acadia than the smaller ones listed.
I don't like minivans (I don't know why...). Jeep is impossible (given what you faced). Acadia - I don't know - is it available at dealerships? I haven't seen one yet. I haven't seen an Edge yet. Crossover market is evolving and you can expect lots of choices soon. In fact, these newly designed crossovers are expected to be stylish and technologically sophisticated. Who knows - probably stylish crossovers will save GM.
As did the new large SUV's and the new pickups will and the new vehicles that have come out in the last year.
GM's initial progress this year has been fairly impressive. The patient is no longer in imminent danger of bleeding to death, but surgery is still needed.
GM must address structural and cultural problems on a number of fronts:
Fix legacy health care and labor costs (starting to do this) Develop desirable products in the small and mid-sized sedan area. Especially focus on interior quality, efficiency, and NVH on its engines Speaking of engines, why can't GM develop relatively few smooth, efficient, and quiet engines? Drop the myriad of harsh, inefficient, older engines -- cut the engine portfolio to fewer really good ones. OHC vs. pushrod - who cares, just make them smooth and quiet, regardless of technology. Honda and Toyota are there - why can't the world's largest auto maker do this? Dump the stupid patriotic advertising and focus on the product. Motherhood and apple pie won't save GM Drop most of the brands (or group them if franchise agreements are limiters - It's the Chevyiac dealer! How about Saabturn?). It's a bit hard to remember 10 brands and what each stands for. How does that Equinox really differ from the Torrent? And don't forget the 9-7X! Somehow the management of GM took a good concept many years back and let it get malignantly out of control. Improve styling. Maybe some original ideas would improve upon the copy-the-other-guys-five-years-later strategy. (HHR copies PT Cruiser, Camaro copies Mustang, Late hybrids copy Toyota, etc.). Not sure a company that doesn't innovate should survive in a capitalist marketplace Quit talking so much and start delivering.
I am sick of "Keep America Rolling", "You Pay What We Pay", "American Revolution", "Like A Rock", etc. - when my Blazer broke down, I understood what it means to be like a rock. But Chrysler's "Dr. Z" is equally bad. And, so is Ford's "Bold Moves". Toyota's "Think Smart" and Honda's "Mr. Opportunity" aren't any exciting either. Hyundai's new Sonata ad is a copy of Caddy's "Break Through". Of course, nothing is as pompous as "Born from Jets" or "Unleash a Jaguar". And, I'm sick of seeing headlamps turning with the front-wheels in every Lexus ad. And, Camry ad tells you that Camry is more than "Point A to Point B" - I guess Camry buyers have some Point C in mind. And, enthusiasts had to bear with silly campaigns like Nissan's "Driven" and "Shift x.0", and VW's "Drivers Wanted". The last ad campaign that really impressed me was Mazda's "Zoom-Zoom-Zoom".
Wish all the money spent on slogan-building was spent on car-building.
I must agree with you about Saab's tag line " Born from Jets". That's more than a little over the top. Especially when they parade their re-badged Trailblazer. What is it called a 9X7? Yeah, Born from Jets indeed.
Well it was an aircraft company before they made an automobile. The earlier models were rather strange looking things. Can not deny they stood out in a crowd. No problem with born from jets. Any kerosene like odors coming from the cars??? -Loren
Yep, that's what the acronym SAAB means: "Svenska Aeroplan Aktiebolaget (abbreviated AB)" - loosely translated to English: "Swedish Airplane Inc. (or, Corp.)". Aktiebolaget, abbreviated AB, means: THE Stock Company, in other words, here in the USA, a public or private corporation. The beginnings of the company trace back to 1921, and possibly a bit earlier, building airplanes. The first automobile prototype was the SAAB 92 in June 1947, and it went into production in December 1949. They still build commercial and military aircraft, and do sub-contracting for the entire commercial aviation industry. For example, the SF340 that's used by many commuter airlines is manufactured by SAAB, and the slats in the wings on the commercial DC-9 and MD Super 80 are sub-contracted by SAAB.
As a long-time SAAB owner, dating back to the '60s, the 9-2X comes close to that title. A re-badged Subaru makes the Trolls from Trollhattan, Sweden turn over in their graves, but it is probably more reliable, expecially the electrics.
Yep, that's what the acronym SAAB means: "Svenska Aeroplan Aktiebolaget (abbreviated AB)"
Our 1992 Saab was incredible. Lots of room inside, comfortable, big hatch but could be a car, turbo 4 with lots of power, great handling. Then GM got their hands on the company and it was down hill from there. Got a Volvo but Ford got their hands on them and ruined them! Will styling save GM? Not if they keep messing up on the engineering. Saab is still a great looking car, even has large windows, and the wagon looks particularly nice in 9.3 or 9.5 form, and I read a great review of the 9.3 convertible, but I doubt if it is as advanced as a similar priced BMW, Audi or MB!
For about the same money, you can buy a BMW 330Ci convertible, but I think the Saab is a better deal. There's more room in the 9-3. The engine is more powerful, too. The turbocharged, 2.8-liter V-6 in the Saab delivers 250 horsepower and 258 pounds-feet of torque and should easily outrun the BMW. I also liked the optional six-speed automatic, a Tiptronic-style gearbox with manual shift capability.
Yes, that was the review, and they give the Saab 9.3 convertible a tremendous review. Owners seem to like it a lot and based on the review I would actually consider another Saab. I do have some reservations, like these comments from Edmunds; But just as we alluded to before, the day is coming where GM will go too far. The little things are already starting to disappear as the GM-supplied stereos, key fobs and the GM badge itself work their way into the mix.
For the time being, however, the Saab 9-3 convertible remains a profit center and a fun one at that. So after 20 years, it remains a unique product unlike any other. And these days, that's high praise.
Also, this is still a FWD vehicle I do believe...and I prefer AWD these days. Many seem to want RWD.
But, the 9.3 seems to be getting a lot of praise and positive comments, and that is a good sign for GM.
IMO the new ads with the cars floating over the city promoting the new warranty are impressive, they stand out and subliminally make you feel you will go to heaven with your new GM, presumably because there will be less to worry about!
I do have some reservations, like these comments from Edmunds; But just as we alluded to before, the day is coming where GM will go too far. The little things are already starting to disappear as the GM-supplied stereos, key fobs and the GM badge itself work their way into the mix.
So, you do not like the idea of a GM key fob? Or GM's stereo's are not good, or is it the GM badge? I did not read the Edmunds article but if that is what they are really afraid of then something is a bit off at Edmunds. Now if they would have said GM's quality or awful ride or powertrains then they may have a point to duscuss. But a key fob?
RE: Saab 9.3 So, you do not like the idea of a GM key fob? Or GM's stereo's are not good, or is it the GM badge?
I think they are saying this is the start of the cost cutting. These are the start of trying to save money and who knows how far it will go.
Very Important Point: Remember this about the new warranty. Maybe GM is just buying time and keeping their fingers crossed this will improve sales....THEY HAVE 3 YEARS TO BUILD UP A WAR CHEST WHEN THE NEW WARRANTY WILL HAVE TO START BEING HONORED. CLEVER, TODAY THEY CAN ANNOUNCE 5/100,000 BUT WON'T HAVE TO PAY ANYTHING OUT FOR 3 YEARS...NOW THAT IS MARKETING!!!!
P.S. 37 MPG in a LeSabre. Imidoza, I think you need a new calculator or is it a joke like the picture of the Camry door? :confuse:
You need a reading lesson: It says the DIC readout. You're welcome to come read the display. I drove gently, not in a rush. Visiting a relative in a hospital is not my idea of fun to hurry to get to!
That's the open road mileage after stopping for my flavored coffee refill at my local UDF. There were 4 stoplights, 1 turn ramp onto a different highway. Traffic was controlled because there were lots of campers from Eldora Speedway leaving in both directions. They must have had a real shindig there this weekend. Auto racing!
But nice joke on your part about Camry door? Whazzat?
You would think that was your average mileage if your using a figure like that. Didn't know it was when coasting up to a red light. A Camry, if it had a DIC would probably register 53 MPG's.
Just making that up, but come on, using a DIC for a few seconds to give MPG's????
I've compared reality with DIC and it's within 1 mi p gal when I did test runs on trips.
When you start stopping and starting 3600 pounds or whatever the leSabre weighs, it starts to drop mileage. This is ideal run over nice, sweeping Ohio rural highways. I actually got 45 mph on one short 15 mile trip back from dealer. There was a 40 mph wind from 150 degrees however!!! so I think that doesn't count.
I've compared reality with DIC and it's within 1 mi p gal when I did test runs on trips.
Ok, I believe you but I have never come close to 37 MPG on any of my GM's, the smallest being a 92 Cavalier and 89 Corisica 6 cyl, and even less on the 86 Cierra and 84 Celebrity. Most 4 cyl cars don't get that kind of mileage.
I think the Acadia and Outlook (Saturn) will be in showrooms maybe November at the earliest. The Buick Enclave version will be out sometime after the first of the year. Links http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/12/2007-gmc-acadia-revealed/http://www.gmc.com/acadia/ These might be a good choice if you want/need 6-8 adult size seating and/or cargo volume. If you don't need this large a vehicle, then there are a number of other options in SUV and Crossover SUV. These are about the width and length as the Yukon/Tahoe but not as tall. With the V6, 6 sp tranny and aerodynamics the estimated Hwy EPA rating is 24 or 25 (AWD - FWD) which is an improvement over the rating for Yukon/Tahoe truck based SUVs...depends on what you need or want. I like the looks, but I'll need to see one in person and test the seats and ride before deciding for sure.
Don't really like mini-vans...had an early Nissan Quest..pretty good, but would rather stay with the SUV type. Towing (occasionally) utility trailer with up to 5000 pounds...locally and usually not that much though.
Well then, it looks like you are stuck in the low-mileage vehicles then; minivans get much better mileage than their more-bulky and less-space-efficient SUV counterparts. If towing more than 3,500 pounds though, you have to move up to a guzzler. Some people can't get past the "stigma" of driving a van. If you are defined by what you drive, then you have issues (I don't mean you specifically, FYI ) that go deeper than car-shopping.
I'm 19, and loved driving our Odyssey (lots of power, lots of room for my 6'4" frame, and those cool power doors; it just wasn't "cool."
Does this mean that if the Democrats win the House they will connive with the oil companies to raise gas prices? I guess that this makes sense since they are always wanting to take more of our paychecks with bigger taxes and other schemes.
Comments
So, I could have bought a Honda that did not fit my needs or a GMC that does. I'm satisfied with my choice. When I'm ready to replace my Trooper in the next 6-24 months or so, I'll look around and see what fits my needs. I'm leaning toward the Acadia but will have to actually test one and see what the pricing runs when they hit the streets. I like the size (7-8 passenger, almost the size of the Yukon) with better gas mileage, if I still need that large a vehicle. Honda have anything to approach that in size and utility?
I suggest you test-drive Mazda CX7 as well if you want crossovers - Edmunds' reviewers loved the vehicle. I guess Acadia/ Enclave will compete head-on with CX7, Edge, B9 and V6 RAV4.
Yep, its called an Odyssey. Seats 8 (7 comfortably), gets 19-27 MPG, has a 3.5L V-6 with about 250 horsepower, and starts in the mid-$20ks, and that price includes all the stnadard safety features (Stability Control, Front, Side, and Head Curtain Airbags for all rows, Anti-Lock Brakes, Electronic Brake-force Distribution, Tire Pressure Monitor, etc...) It also has more cargo capacity (by 40 cubic feet!) than a (2007)Yukon, has split-folding third-row seats that easily fold into the floor, and removable second-row seating as well. The (2007)Yukon is also longer than the Odyssey.
So, the Yukon is bigger outside, smaller inside than this van. Kinda funny, really.
If this vehicle won't work, may I ask what you are towing that is over 3,500 pounds or how much off-roading you do?
The Acadia is much larger than the CX7 and RAV4, not sure about the Edge or B9.
The Sequoia and Armada would probably be more in the size class of the Acadia than the smaller ones listed.
As did the new large SUV's and the new pickups will and the new vehicles that have come out in the last year.
As did the new large SUV's and the new pickups will and the new vehicles that have come out in the last year.
GM's initial progress this year has been fairly impressive. The patient is no longer in imminent danger of bleeding to death, but surgery is still needed.
GM must address structural and cultural problems on a number of fronts:
Fix legacy health care and labor costs (starting to do this)
Develop desirable products in the small and mid-sized sedan area. Especially focus on interior quality, efficiency, and NVH on its engines
Speaking of engines, why can't GM develop relatively few smooth, efficient, and quiet engines? Drop the myriad of harsh, inefficient, older engines -- cut the engine portfolio to fewer really good ones. OHC vs. pushrod - who cares, just make them smooth and quiet, regardless of technology. Honda and Toyota are there - why can't the world's largest auto maker do this?
Dump the stupid patriotic advertising and focus on the product. Motherhood and apple pie won't save GM
Drop most of the brands (or group them if franchise agreements are limiters - It's the Chevyiac dealer! How about Saabturn?). It's a bit hard to remember 10 brands and what each stands for. How does that Equinox really differ from the Torrent? And don't forget the 9-7X! Somehow the management of GM took a good concept many years back and let it get malignantly out of control.
Improve styling. Maybe some original ideas would improve upon the copy-the-other-guys-five-years-later strategy. (HHR copies PT Cruiser, Camaro copies Mustang, Late hybrids copy Toyota, etc.). Not sure a company that doesn't innovate should survive in a capitalist marketplace
Quit talking so much and start delivering.
Somehow the SUV's were saving the year even with the high gas prices in the first half.
I am sick of "Keep America Rolling", "You Pay What We Pay", "American Revolution", "Like A Rock", etc. - when my Blazer broke down, I understood what it means to be like a rock. But Chrysler's "Dr. Z" is equally bad. And, so is Ford's "Bold Moves". Toyota's "Think Smart" and Honda's "Mr. Opportunity" aren't any exciting either. Hyundai's new Sonata ad is a copy of Caddy's "Break Through". Of course, nothing is as pompous as "Born from Jets" or "Unleash a Jaguar". And, I'm sick of seeing headlamps turning with the front-wheels in every Lexus ad. And, Camry ad tells you that Camry is more than "Point A to Point B" - I guess Camry buyers have some Point C in mind. And, enthusiasts had to bear with silly campaigns like Nissan's "Driven" and "Shift x.0", and VW's "Drivers Wanted". The last ad campaign that really impressed me was Mazda's "Zoom-Zoom-Zoom".
Wish all the money spent on slogan-building was spent on car-building.
The "American Revolution" ad is still a mystery to all. Maybe they meant to say an American Evolution, as in older cars, and engines being tweaked.
"Like a Rock" can only mean one thing, a solid mass which doesn't move. Why I would want that to happen with my vehicle, is yet another great mystery.
I do like the "Ultimate Driving Machine." BMW backs it up.
And the Lexus, "Relentless pursuit of perfection" is also backed up.
-Loren
-Loren
Our 1992 Saab was incredible. Lots of room inside, comfortable, big hatch but could be a car, turbo 4 with lots of power, great handling. Then GM got their hands on the company and it was down hill from there. Got a Volvo but Ford got their hands on them and ruined them! Will styling save GM? Not if they keep messing up on the engineering. Saab is still a great looking car, even has large windows, and the wagon looks particularly nice in 9.3 or 9.5 form, and I read a great review of the 9.3 convertible, but I doubt if it is as advanced as a similar priced BMW, Audi or MB!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Perhaps this was the review?
For about the same money, you can buy a BMW 330Ci convertible, but I think the Saab is a better deal. There's more room in the 9-3. The engine is more powerful, too. The turbocharged, 2.8-liter V-6 in the Saab delivers 250 horsepower and 258 pounds-feet of torque and should easily outrun the BMW. I also liked the optional six-speed automatic, a Tiptronic-style gearbox with manual shift capability.
But just as we alluded to before, the day is coming where GM will go too far. The little things are already starting to disappear as the GM-supplied stereos, key fobs and the GM badge itself work their way into the mix.
For the time being, however, the Saab 9-3 convertible remains a profit center and a fun one at that. So after 20 years, it remains a unique product unlike any other. And these days, that's high praise.
Also, this is still a FWD vehicle I do believe...and I prefer AWD these days. Many seem to want RWD.
But, the 9.3 seems to be getting a lot of praise and positive comments, and that is a good sign for GM.
IMO the new ads with the cars floating over the city promoting the new warranty are impressive, they stand out and subliminally make you feel you will go to heaven with your new GM, presumably because there will be less to worry about!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
But just as we alluded to before, the day is coming where GM will go too far. The little things are already starting to disappear as the GM-supplied stereos, key fobs and the GM badge itself work their way into the mix.
So, you do not like the idea of a GM key fob? Or GM's stereo's are not good, or is it the GM badge?
I think they are saying this is the start of the cost cutting. These are the start of trying to save money and who knows how far it will go.
Very Important Point: Remember this about the new warranty. Maybe GM is just buying time and keeping their fingers crossed this will improve sales....THEY HAVE 3 YEARS TO BUILD UP A WAR CHEST WHEN THE NEW WARRANTY WILL HAVE TO START BEING HONORED. CLEVER, TODAY THEY CAN ANNOUNCE 5/100,000 BUT WON'T HAVE TO PAY ANYTHING OUT FOR 3 YEARS...NOW THAT IS MARKETING!!!!
P.S. 37 MPG in a LeSabre. Imidoza, I think you need a new calculator
or is it a joke like the picture of the Camry door? :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It says the DIC readout. You're welcome to come read the display. I drove gently, not in a rush. Visiting a relative in a hospital is not my idea of fun to hurry to get to!
That's the open road mileage after stopping for my flavored coffee refill at my local UDF. There were 4 stoplights, 1 turn ramp onto a different highway. Traffic was controlled because there were lots of campers from Eldora Speedway leaving in both directions. They must have had a real shindig there this weekend. Auto racing!
But nice joke on your part about Camry door? Whazzat?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You would think that was your average mileage if your using a figure like that. Didn't know it was when coasting up to a red light. A Camry, if it had a DIC would probably register 53 MPG's.
Just making that up, but come on, using a DIC for a few seconds to give MPG's????
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Maybe DIC should be checked (must have been recalled or something)
Impossible!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
When you start stopping and starting 3600 pounds or whatever the leSabre weighs, it starts to drop mileage. This is ideal run over nice, sweeping Ohio rural highways. I actually got 45 mph on one short 15 mile trip back from dealer. There was a 40 mph wind from 150 degrees however!!! so I think that doesn't count.
>must have been recalled
Nope. They got the right snaprings.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Ok, I believe you but I have never come close to 37 MPG on any of my GM's, the smallest being a 92 Cavalier and 89 Corisica 6 cyl, and even less on the 86 Cierra and 84 Celebrity. Most 4 cyl cars don't get that kind of mileage.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well then, it looks like you are stuck in the low-mileage vehicles then; minivans get much better mileage than their more-bulky and less-space-efficient SUV counterparts. If towing more than 3,500 pounds though, you have to move up to a guzzler. Some people can't get past the "stigma" of driving a van. If you are defined by what you drive, then you have issues (I don't mean you specifically, FYI
I'm 19, and loved driving our Odyssey (lots of power, lots of room for my 6'4" frame, and those cool power doors; it just wasn't "cool."
Ummm, no !
Rocky