By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Congratulations on a new car.
You didn't mentioned the price, except saying $40k off the sticker???
How many miles on the car?
Happy driving.
The NY Times has this review of the Prius in the Sunday auto section. I'm a subscriber so I got the supplement today and just read it and it's now online so I linked it below. I think you'll like the review and incredibly the author got 69mpg on a 34 mile trip with a pulse and glide driving technique. I gotta tell you I'm even getting interested in this car now. If you read the link, click on the graph for a look at many hybrids.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/automobiles/autoreviews/29AUTO.html?_r=1&scp=2- - &sq=toyota%20prius&st=cse
Yeah, that cooktop is awesome. We like those special "extra low" setttings on 2 of the six burners that automatically cycle the gas burners on and off when you need to keep something warm indefinitely without ever burning it... ours is only six burners because there is also a large built-in griddle. It's also got those infra red warming lights built into that huge exhaust hood... and the warming drawer on the side.
Like you, have the extra tap at the sink with reverse-osmosis filtration... also provides filtered "instant hot".
We like having a cool kitchen... lots of time spent there.
But I've got to tell you... my favorite areas are my Bar-B-Que & outdoor entertainment Cabana, which is absolutely amazing beyond your imagination... and also my home theater system, which is very good, although starting to show a little age, with some of these very latest devices that have come to market.
When I move, I will miss my Bar-B-Que / entertainment Cabana the most. Hopefully, I will build another similar setup one day.
TM
Bmlexus, I paid $62.5k. Original '07 sticker was $101.8k, an '09 would sticker at about $104k. Car had 26k miles - but the Mercedes Certified Pre-Owned program gave it brand new tires, new brakes, and a complete 26k miles "B" service (including oil change, new brake fluid, cabin filter, etc.). So it's about as close to new as you can get.
I agree - the thing I miss the most about the Lexus is the touch screen interface, especially for the NAV system. But I sure don't miss the legal screen that required a touch of the "I Agree" button on my '05 LS. And the handling of the S is really superior to my LS.
And I think your 460L is almost as big as the S550 (maybe an inch smaller?). So you're probably well-adapted by now to the size increase over your old LS.
It's really interesting to see people now so willing to cross over between the German vs. Japanese manufacturers. We've come a long way from the oac vs. Merc wars, haven't we? I now have 2 Lexi and 3 MBs in the family fleet.
And I still would love to hear designman's opinion on the new 7 series....
Len, I'm glad to see you are interested in the Prius yourself. Other than Dewey, I've been one of the most obvious supporters of the Prius on this board. In many ways, it goes against the grain of every car I've ever owned, yet it is a technological marvel that I can't help from being impressed with.
As, I've posted before, I truly hope that Dewey gets one. For me, it's still too early to consider one. We still have the BMW 135i, Jaguar Vanden Plas, Ford Escape Limited Hybrid, and the Acura MDX. No room for a Prius just yet.
TM
Gary,
That statement reminds me of some of the huge arguments that used to go on here. I can remember making the case for driving dynamics and superior handling, but there were some here that just didn't "get it". Now, we have you and Len driving Mercedes Benz as well as Lexus, and you both have praised and appreciated the Mercedes' handling.
To quote the late Jackie Gleason... "How sweet it is!"
And I still would love to hear designman's opinion on the new 7 series....
OMG, yes... that would be a real treat.
TM
If you recall Tag, I was always in the middle of those arguments, since I drove MBs (and before that BMW) for years before I got the LS in 10/04. And I went for the LS because of its "value proposition" and even more importantly the reliability issue that has recently driven dewey crazy with his bimmer. The W211 E-class and the W220 S-class were just not well-made cars compared to the Lexus LS430, even if they drove wonderfully. My LS was never as good a handler as my older MBs, but it was "good enough" for me given its much superior reliability to the then-current MBs.
Hearing Len talk about his satisfaction with his 460L and seeing recent reports on MB's much-improved reliability, clearly the lines are coming closer together. And that's great for all luxury car buyers.
You typcially had a balanced perspective, as I also recall... and I see that you haven't lost it.
I think it is terrific, however, to see you in a "new" Mercedes S-Class. What a terrific car. I have maintained that the S-Class is king of the hill in its category and at a tad over $60K for all that you acquired, you have really hit a grand slam.
Personally, I think it is good to see so many of us with combinations of German and Japanese cars. I currently have vehicles from Germany, Great Britain, Japan, and USA. There are things I can appreciate about all of them, but the handling goes to the Germans. The reliability goes to Jaguar... :surprise: LOL!!!
TM
Here's one of the first commercials we can expect to see. It may not seem like it, but the focus is actually on affordability. I didn't check to see which agency is responsible for the ad, but from my perspective, I don't think the ad is as powerful as it could have been, and I'd have to say Honda didn't get their money's worth.
Of course, it is early to make a complete determination, as I would expect that the ad campaign should have follow-up ads that evolve the message further within the same theme. I certainly hope so.
link title
TM
I drove the S550 in November when I took the GL. I also had a 2007 for the better part of a day. In both cases I loved the S but in 2007 I couldn't pull the trigger because reliabilty still scared me. My perspective is that both cars have dream rides and MB has now equalled Lexus in ride and quietness while offering superior handling. With the earlier models I thought the S sacrificed a little of both to get that achievement. But Lexus has also stepped up the handling too though they just won't make this a car the sport mags will ever love because they don't see it as that. MB, with improving the ride and quietness (not that the old car didn't have a great ride, they just took it up in quality) looks like it's also there as ultimately the preferred handling of the mags gets you nowhere in sales in this class. In fact folks I know around here that have the cars gave no consideration at all to the 7 or A8 and disregarded any mag opinions and simply went by past experience or respected opinions of friends. So these cars are becoming more of a mirror image of each other every year with Lexus finally offering AWD and the longer wheel base. Both are great and if the S reliability is there I may take one on the next lease, especially if it is a new body style I like. Today I would be equally satisfied in either car. Size is same as far as I'm concerned. So it comes down to the better Lexus nav and easier controls plus it's flawless nature vs the S improving (but not yet proven) reliability and superior handling. I'd give the S better styling but both cars are flashy (in a conservative way) and beautiful to my eyes.
I agree. While I've lost interest in the full-lux class as a whole, if I were buying in that class, it wouldn't be a 7. I just don't think that area is really BMW's forte. Their best cars are the small ones focused on performance and handling. I would either take my chances with a Quattroporte automatic, or wait for the upcoming D4 Audi A8 (most likely the latter).
Indeed, the lines are beginning to blur. In very general terms, Japanese cars seem to be getting better to drive (with Infiniti leading the charge), and while they still lead, reliability in some cases is not as good as it used to be. German cars are getting more reliable, though of course the occasional lemon still gets through. Feature and weight creep has also made some German cars duller to drive than earlier generations.
The brands to watch in the future will be Infiniti, with their hybrid G and M, and upcoming Q flagship which has apparently gotten the green light, and Audi, with their proposed radical weight loss plan. Jag's next few years should also be very interesting.
As I have already stated weeks ago, I also think the new Prius is awesome. I would have loved it if my wife had decided on the Prius. But she is obsessed with AWD and we are instead going with the RX450h.
And I think your 460L is almost as big as the S550 (maybe an inch smaller?). So you're probably well-adapted by now to the size increase over your old LS.
It's really interesting to see people now so willing to cross over between the German vs. Japanese manufacturers. We've come a long way from the oac vs. Merc wars, haven't we? I now have 2 Lexi and 3 MBs in the family fleet.
Gary, first of all congratulations on the purchase of your S550. It looks like you got a terrific deal. A year and a half ago I did give it some thought (going with the S550), but to be honest with you I could not see paying $15-20K more than the LS460L to get the S with the options I wanted. And at that time, I felt that the LS reliability would be better than that of the S, but it appears that there is no longer much difference. Also, unless the handling is horrible, I don't really have a concern about handling. The seats on the S are definitely superior to the LS.
Two years from now when I am ready to get a new vehicle, I will definitely consider the S. But I have a feeling that at that time, I will be going with the best luxury hybrid sedan available, (but NOT the LS600h). The LS600h seems like a waste of money to me now. I am really happy I canceled my order back in the fall of 2007.
Even though I don't need a Prius right now, I almost wish I did. It's just got so much cool factor going for it, for what would normally be considered a dull and boring car.
I understand your need for AWD. Nice to have enhanced road-worthiness, IMO.
TM
No doubt about it. In fact, there really never was any doubt about it from my perspective.
You must recall how hard I tried to convince you and Len to go with the LS460L instead... I'm very glad you didn't waste all that money on the 600.
TM
You must recall how hard I tried to convince you and Len to go with the LS460L instead... I'm very glad you didn't waste all that money on the 600.
You sir, were right on! You were pleading with us not to go with the LS600h. Fortunately, as soon as I found out that the EPA estimate was only 21 mpg for the LS600h, I was turned off. That along with a small trunk and about $35K additional expense totally killed the deal.
IMO(emphasized), hybrid & 'cool factor' have not met, & will be years in the making.
'Cool' comes from the bottom up, not vice-versa. I'm not a full survey of any kind, but have a 20 year old son with many friends that love cars, & hybrids are not a topic.
Let me know when the script has been written for 'The Semi- Fast & The Semi-Furious, but Fuel Sipping.'
I'm not doubting their coming down our throats, but 'cool?' More like propeller-headed dink-mobiles. ;-)
During my test of the'07 A8, I realized I was undeniably spoiled by the 3-series nimble feel vs. the refined but cumbersome handling of the A8 which left me very neutral to the appeal that size class. I am sure the 7 was no more controllable due to added weight but I have never driven the 7.
Regards,
OW
It just is not for me.
The Fisker, OTOH, is right down my tailpipes!
Regards,
OW
2010 Toyota Prius: More efficiency--but still boring to drive
link title
Isn't that a revelation? What was this journalist expecting a Porshce 911 or a $100K Telsa?
Congratulations on a great car and a great deal.
You are now officially the owner of the most Mercedes Benzes in this forum. Unfortunately you cannot change your forum name Garyh1 to Merc1 since that name has already been taken
I think there is something very cool and sexy about the Prius and that is all the engineering efforts that have been put into a car within that price range.
And yes geekiness can be cool as well as sexy.
Think of a vivacious geeky librarian with large framed glasses and her hair tightly tied up(and no I am not talking about that Republican Alaskan Governor).
Sorry, but hybrids don't make me think Claudia circa 90's, but more recent ads for Ellen for Covergirl....
The appropriate handle would be Merc3, no?
I am thinking of changing my name to DrFill2 in order to reflect my new positive views on both Toyota and Lexus.
But the reality is that most German cars availabe for sale today in North America consume as much fuel as World War Two Panzers.
I mean really what have they got there after all those years of green boasting?
Audi--nothing!
Porsche--nothing!
BMW--large diesel engines that consume far more fuel than most of the BMWs offered in Europe. A EV Mini which is more of a PR fleet than something you can get at any dealer. A BMW 7 series hydrogen vehicle --how many are out there anyways? One, two, three, four or up to the number of fingers I have on both of my hands.
Mercedes Benz---Blutec mainly in SUVs and the E Class. Good highway mileage, but nothing to get excited about if you are mainly an urban city road driver.
VW--A Jetta diesel with sub-par mileage when compared to hybrid offerings
Is that it? All this green bunk year after year and that is all that these firms can do in terms of their offerings?
Now compare those German green offerings with Toyota and Honda.
Big talk, no walk.
But now I have no regrets whatsoever after reading that today lithium ion batteries have a life-span of about three years and costs about $10K. Also the estimated mileage for a plug in Prius is about 68 vs. 51 for the non-plug in version.
IMO Plug-ins at this stage are not even worth considering.
I talked to a Toyota dealer about the new Prius and I was told that a solar sun roof would cost about 40 percent over the MSRP . Forty percent more for a solar sunroof that does not improve mileage at all and is only useful for ventilation purposes? Sounds like a waste of money to me.
What do you guys think of the news this morning? The gov. is giving Chrysler 30 days to work the deal with Fiat and it is giving 60 days to GM to come up with a much better plan. Otherwise, bankruptcy is imminent. However, the gov. would take over the bankruptcy. What a mess!
However, I still think that we saw the low in the stock market several weeks ago.
You have to blow it up and start over. I think this could have been done cleaner but what do I know? Seems the Government knows best these days.
Whatever...I am looking forward to a seeing new industry that can be competitive and market leading someday....
Regards,
OW
You have flip-flopped on this issue of batteries. Your early posts indicated you did not want plug-in.
Also, I have posted numerous times that I now believe that lithium ion batteries are a transition technology, and that I am convinced that nano-tech batteries will replace them in the not-too-distant future... and will be a MUCH better solution by leaps.
In the Prius, I'd gladly stick with the same proven batteries for now and avoid the lithium ion.
Bottom line... Consider yourself lucky.
TM
The irony is this: The auto companies that will survive will not be the auto companies with the best cars but with the best balance sheets.
Similarily there are a lot of operationally healthy non-automotive companies today that are at the brink of bankruptcy because they were overzealoulsy financially leveraged .
Millions of lay offs and all the economic misery that comes with corporate failures are all due to a bunch of financially literate executives who should have known better. Finance 101 teaches that leverage is a two edged sword. Unfortunately that lesson was ignored. And now that lesson is being ignored by the Government which in itself will cause even worse dire consequences during some future date.
I was unaware of their three year life spans and their $10K costs. They cannot be commercialized into mainstream production unless those lithium ion batteries improve. No wonder the Chevy Volt's price is already expected to be 40K and not 30K dollars.
Ditto! I was also unaware of this as well. Maybe this is why Toyota has been SO slow to implement the Lithium Ion batteries. If they are this expensive and they only have a 3 year life span, forget it. As Tag stated above, I will wait for the nano batteries to become readily available.
Says one BMW watcher: "The focus on sheer driving pleasure will not work anymore. You have to be sociably acceptable as well. That will take a complete redefinition of the brand."
Reithofer's says "In the future we will not sell cylinders, we will sell modern technology". For the future, BMW must create a car that is economical, environmental, and clever.
Who needs such a green BMW when there already is a Prius. Folks by giving up my BMW 335i for a Prius I am entering the future. I am so ahead of my time that I am just like that fellow who shaved his head years before Yul Bryner and Kojak.
FORTUNE
Yes, greed ruled the decisions at the end of the day. The government has a lot of that as well.
So, the lessons are re-taught time after time but they never sink in.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
Jose
I don't like what Obama and Co. did over the weekend at all. First Geithner comes out and says more tarp money will be needed. Why the hell you do that when banks are minting cash and looking to outlet that money into low to near zero rate credit cards for a year. Worse is you want them tro sell the toxic assets but you alert the possible buyers that more writedowns are needed?? it makes no sense. The more tarp money you give them the more they'll put there because there's no M2M to worry about. From an operating perspective banks need nothing and would have no issues getting through this on a cash flow basis. In fact they have more cash than ever even if you take out all the tarp money. Dewey's solution of keeping M2M but don't let writedowns of performing loans be drawn into the asset ratios required for bank lending is more brilliant than anything I've heard out of Obama & Co.. Then you read about how the Government fires Wagoner. The guy needed to go and any other financier doing it would have caused no ripples at all but the government doing it is flat out wrong because it wreaks of control. So Wall Street is reacting accordingly (in fact I'm surprised it is not down more) as IMO it's reading this as Obama trying to control everything so they are getting very distrustful of him yet again. I've never seen a situation where Wall Street dislikes and distrusts the President of the US and this is not healthy in any way, shape or form. I honestly don't get the actions of this weekend without reading a control motive to them and the last thing in the world I would trust is the US running any automotive or banking business.
Well, Toyota and Honda have been working on this tech since at least the early '90s, so you would expect them to be farther along than the Germans.
That said, considering the amount of time Honda has had at this, they ultimately have very little to show for it. The Civic hybrid is a decent product, but the Accord hybrid was a total failure, and they seem to have given up on that, at least for this generation. The Insight seems like Honda's answer to the '04 Prius.
Toyota is obviously well ahead of everyone else, but Lexus has more misses than hits. The GS and LS hybrids are overpriced, badly executed, and impractical. While the HS250h may get higher mileage than any other "luxury" vehicle, it looks like a glorified Corolla, and its interior is Toyota quality, at best.
Acura's got nothing, not even plans that I know of for future hybrids. Honda HQ cut off the flow of cash, but they are still floundering about and throwing darts at the wall, shouting "we're gonna be tier one, just you wait and see!".
Where is Honda's answer to the Audi Q5 hybrid, or the Cayenne hybrid, or the MB S400 hybrid?
I'm lost in all these developments. I just hope that ultimately the right decisions are made. I can't imagine that this Administration under Obama knows not what it is doing. I just can't.
Charlie,
It's not the administration business figures I'm worried about. I have no doubt that they are sharp and know what to do. It's the top guy, Pelosi and a lot of Congress that has all my my fears. Obama's controlling everything instead of letting his experts guide him in matters he's a lot less knowledgable in - IMO. Everytime we take a few steps forward we see carelessness come back in. Then we need another healing process with Wall Street. Geithner looks bad because he can't say or do what he really wants to. Bernanke is the independent here. If he ever goes or is forced out I sell everything except my home and it's contents. The only folks that have barked back at Obama so far is Europe as he chided them on what to do last week. Europe has different policies, different bandaids for their problems and who are we to tell them what to do anyway?
One problem we have now is that stronger banks want no part of the tarp money. A - they never needed it; B - it's a club they want to get out of fast, and C - they want no part of the Government ordering them around. But now the Government doesn't want it back and can't take it back anyway. If they did then the banks that keep and need the money are at a great competitive disadvantage. So now everyone has to keep the money to maintain a level playing field. Paulson knew this in October which is why he wanted to take the assets rather than put in cash to cover the paper M2M losses. But he threw his hands up in disgust to a Congress that didn't know better and didn't trust him. I'll bet you that even today Congress fails to understand that Paulson had the right answer from day one.
Dewey, in all seriousness, you get my vote for the most improved poster over the past 4 years! When did you get so funny?! And even the quality of your technical and financial musings seem to have risen to a higher level.
Maybe you are spending too much time working on your posts, and letting your spirited driving skills weaken. How else to explain your desire to move from a BMW to a Prius? :confuse:
I actually toyed with the idea of the Quattroporte, but I wanted this car for my everyday driver, and I was worried that maintaining the Maserati might be more hassle than I wanted to deal with.
At least with an S, you know you will be able to get parts pretty much immediately, and there are lots of good indy Benz mechanics around if I ever had the guts to keep it after the warranty expires (including one I almost have on retainer who maintains our '01 E430 and '98 E320).
I keep going back to my question over and over again. If what you state is correct (and I have the greatest respect for your opinions), it almost appears that Obama and his team are intentionally making the wrong decisions on how to go about "fixing" the financial system. How can this be the case? I just have a very difficult time with this.
BTW, I believe you once told us (several years ago) what you do exactly, but I cannot recollect what it is. I know that you work out some business deals but what these deals are I do not remember. Some of you may have guessed, but my business involves weather forecasting and how it affects commodities world-wide. I have a Master's in Meteorology from Iowa State University (a bummer that our women's basketball team got hammered by Stanford last night
I get to my office at 4:00 AM CDT 4 days a week and this is why you sometimes see me posting so early in the morning.
The problem was the greed factor swung the pendulum too far. It still has to swing back until all is fair again. We can't erase the effect of greed that the corporate leaders decided in 1 quarter. The problem with these current efforts is that the decisions are not cohesive toward a more balanced approach to change rather a fit and start program. Don't they realize everything is connected? That is why bailouts are a shot gun approach. The correct thing is surgery on specific tumors. Too Big NOT to Fail comes to mind. Erase the cancer from the system, don't feed it and then spread it!!!!!!
Regards,
OW
The grin will have to be surgically removed.
Pics to follow...
Was a CFO for a billion dollar company and acquired about 35 companies, some public. Biggest deal was a $3bln public acquisition, most were private $50mln to $250mln deals or strategic asset exchanges with other companies. Most deals were money deals as I was foreign owned so they never used their stock as currency. Today I have my own business in media information and we employ about 30 people, mostly high level. I know first hand how Obama's policy are hurting small business. To me small business is $1-$25 mln EBITDA businesses, not the corner grocery. That core is what hires many Americans and we ourselves are in a great position to expand (we have 50% Ebitda and 65-70% incremental margins and have plenty of leverage space even in todays low leverage cimate) but have put the riskier things on hold until we better understand where tax and government policy is going. We're not about to take risks if there is limited reward. None of that type of thinking, and I know several folks that are doing the same thing, is good for our economy. And if the tax policy is a bad one you'll see many successful small businesses take risks off the table and that is bad because risk translates to economic expansion.
I also scratch my head and wonder why the heck the administration wants to do what it is doing. And I come to the conclusion that it is all about control and supressing capitalism. To some it reads of socialism because control and socialism are synonyms. To me it reads of a President that wants capitalism but with a limitation on wealth. I think his intention is good from a humanitarian view, but the problem is that limiting wealth will end up seeing folks put money offshore more and more or take future risk off the table which will counter all of Obama's intentions and then some. I hope the Government realizes this. Think back to Clinton killing the super collider. Within 2 years we lost most of our top physicists to Europe and Cern.
What bothered me over the weekend so much, more so than GM and a Government that suddenly wants to put in its own CEO there, is that Geithner committed dealmaker blasphemy and Geithner is way too smart to do that. If you want banks to sell off toxic assets you don't come out and tell the future buyers that banks will need more tarp money. That is telling the potential buyers of those assets that they will get cheaper so hang around and wait. Think about that comment. Banks are making cash from every source now, customer deposits, great operating cash flow, so why do they need more tarp money? Further writedowns of toxic assets thanks to M2M, even though 80% of those assets are performing perfectly, hence their strong operating cash flows. So this wouild be like me as a deakmaker for my old firm whispering in the ear of an owner whose company we want to buy that my company is willing to pay a lot more to him than we offered. Business doesn't work that way. Secondly the control exerted over GM had to make any buyer of bank assets want to run from the Government as a partner/lender for fear that the same control would be exerted over them no matter what guarantees are given. I can't help but think that Obama and Co want to control the entire banking sysytem but without mumbling the words nationalization.
Let's all hope that from now going forward, whatever economic decisions are being made by this administration will eventually lead us out of this mess.
I'm a big meteorology and astronomy buff so I know that very well. In winter I read the important weather models (largely the GFS and Euro) almost daily and pretty much come up with my own forecasts 5-10 days out. Short term I use the Nam and GFS. Science and business finance are so analytical so I think you'll find business finance guys have interest in other analytical things. I exchange e-mails from time to time with Craig Allen, a local TV and radio Met (a real one, not your usual TV non-Met) who is well respected in this area.
BTW - I am getting more and more concerned over how all this economic policy will affect lux cars so I'm not at all surprised to see Dewey's post re BMW facing a mantra change in purpose and marketing. Engine power and many of the excesses of the past dozen years is now associated with the greed era and coming out ahead in a bunch of geeky enthusiasts mags may not be so cool anymore.