Should cell phone drivers be singled out?

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    "these people are in the minority"

    You should spend some time driving in my area :sick:
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    Agreed. It seems like everyone wants to do everything but drive anymore.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Seems like automakers encourage that with all the crap they want to stick in cars and get people to pay extra for.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I am sure there might be areas of the country where the number of people who want to eat their IHOP breakfast (bacon, hash browns, eggs, pancakes and coffee) while driving to work at 75 outnumber the number of people either on a handsfree, holding their phone to the ears or using any portable electronic device, these cities are in the minority. Large metropolitan centers such as SF, LA, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Atlanta, NY and Boston, to name a few, this is more easily noticed than farming communities.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    Do you have any data to support that?

    I live in an area which consistently ranks among the worst traffic in the nation - and I just wish I only had to contend with phone yappers. There's an entire population of distracted dolts that need to be dealt with, not just yappers (and more dangerously, texters).
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Saw a sign today - apparently it was illegal to talk on a cell phone in a school zone in that town. Otherwise, no problem.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    It's called common sense and opening ones eyes.

    It works this way, either my statement is true or false. If you are asking me to prove it true, I'm asking you to prove it false. If you can't prove it false, it must be true.

    Actually, as previously alluded to, you might be in the one bubble in the United States where people don't actually use their phones while driving and you have to contend with every other driver induced distraction except for cell phones. If so I applaud the populace of your area. Now some more drivers education is needed for the other distractions.

    It's not what I see on the road. So I'll cough up this difference to a difference in geographic locations.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    "It's called common sense and opening ones eyes"

    Common sense would be a castigation of all distracted driving.

    " If you can't prove it false, it must be true. "

    Interesting logic :shades:

    "you might be in the one bubble in the United States where people don't actually use their phones while driving "

    I said nothing close to that, and if you are going to claim I did, you are well advised to quote me. I said people here do far more than simply yap on the phones - I see the whole gamut of distractions from talking and texting to eating and smoking and playing on computers and more. It all needs to be dealt with. Cracking down on one, especially with unenforceable and toothless laws, will be nothing but a waste of money.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I said nothing close to that

    Here's what you did say:

    I live in an area which consistently ranks among the worst traffic in the nation - and I just wish I only had to contend with phone yappers. There's an entire population of distracted dolts that need to be dealt with, not just yappers (and more dangerously, texters).

    You made it sound like "phone yappers" were in the minority, but I heartedly agree with your comments about texters.

    I see a whole gamut of distractions also, but consistently faced with "yappers" to the left, right and behind me. Not pizza eaters to the left, right and behind me. All taking at the same time. Some time ago I saw a collision between two vehicles who were more interested in their conversations than driving. Thankfully only sheet metal was bent.

    To your point about toothless laws, we can start with jaywalking. Do the drunk driving laws deter DUIs? Does the crimimal code deter murders? Does the tax code deter tax fraud? One could go on and on. Maybe we should get rid of every law and go back to the wild, wild west. That is the essence of your arguement.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    It's one thing to gobble down your breakfast, lunch or dinner while driving. I don't agree with it but its like the first level of distraction (maybe you will miss your mouth and look down on the floor for that last fry but it seems that talking on the phone or even worse texting while driving seems to get people total attention and they actually forget that they are steering 2 tons of metal at 65 MPH. I can only guess what they are talking about to get so into the conversation. The next time you see a car weaving, going to fast going too slow, tailgating or 1/2 mile from the next car at a light I will bet that they are talking on the phone or texting. I wish there was some kind of technology that would prevent people from driving and operating a phone.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    ....this discussion has gone on for 186 pages, going into great detail, siting study after study, and the one and only question that needs to be asked about the subject hasn't been asked.....

    Why is it necessary to talk, text, or do anything with a cell phone WHILE YOU'RE DRIVING?

    The answer is: it isn't. I can't think of a single situation where someone MUST talk on the phone while they're driving unless maybe another driver is trying to run them off the road or is shooting at them. Other than that, why can't the phone conversation take place before of after the drive, or if you must talk while in the vehicle, park the vehicle in a safe spot to do so and then talk.

    There really is no reason for people to talk on the phone while they're driving and believing otherwise is nothing more than a product of today's me-first-because-my-time-and-life-are-more-important-than-yours mentality.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    Also no excuse to eat, drink, smoke, play with a laptop, and so on. They all need to be reigned in.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    I agree with you 100% What the hell did we do for all those years before Cell phone's? that is where this statement comes in.

    " me-first-because-my-time-and-life-are-more-important-than-yours mentality"
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    Yes, that's what I said, if you interpret it your own way, that's your business I guess. I can't see a word there that implies anything about a "minority". The yappers are simply one part of a stew of idiocy.

    Given the proliferation of mobile devices and the near total market penetration, compared to what isn't an explosion of casualties, I don't think the end of the world is here. It's a problem that needs to be stopped, but it's not ending the world.

    Even jaywalking laws have more teeth and are more enforceable than phone laws, especially as they are handled now...murder laws and DUI laws certainly moreso.

    People just need to put down their phones, their food, their drink, their cosmetics, and their toys - and drive.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Yes, that's what I said, if you interpret it your own way, that's your business I guess. I can't see a word there that implies anything about a "minority". The yappers are simply one part of a stew of idiocy

    That's the way I interperted your written word. I would like to make a small change however to this sentence: The yappers are the majority in the simply one part of a stew of idiocy

    Given the proliferation of mobile devices and the near total market penetration, compared to what isn't an explosion of casualties, I don't think the end of the world is here. It's a problem that needs to be stopped, but it's not ending the world.

    It goes back to the same question, do scientists have the same level of detail with regard to the statistics in automotive studies for cell phone usage as for drunk driving. For all you know 75% of all crashes are cell phone related. So there certainly could be an "explosion of casualities" that are not known due to incomplete statistics.

    Even jaywalking laws have more teeth and are more enforceable than phone laws,

    To your point it depends. Ever walk in Manhattan, how many people have you seen getting a jaywalking ticket. I've personally known people who got pulled over for cell phone usage, but I've never heard of anybody getting a jaywalking ticketing. Maybe more teeth in the pacific northwest, but not Manhattan.

    People just need to put down their phones, their food, their drink, their cosmetics, and their toys - and drive.

    I whole heartedly agree, and in that order.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    Idiocy was around long before wireless devices, and it hasn't changed so much. It's just a new distraction among many, and they all need to be stigmatized and lessened.

    Around 10 years ago suddenly everyone got or tried to get a mobile phone. Today anyone who wants one has one - my 80-something year old grandmother even has one. What is the casualty picture from maybe 1995 vs 2009? It doesn't seem to correlate to the proliferation of these gadgets. Why would crashes suddenly become attributable to phones when the same crashes were taking place before?

    I've never known anyone who has had a jaywalking ticket or a yapping ticket. The former is pretty much ignored here, the latter is a secondary law.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    someone just released a study showing that those who text message while they drive are six times more likely to be in accident than those who don't. Just thought I would throw that in the mix. :blush:

    Heard an interview a couple of months ago with some folks under the age of 30 who texted while driving (it was a news piece related to California's new legislation banning texting while driving) who unabashedly said they did it, they would go on doing it, and what was the big deal anyway? They could touch-text and never even needed to look at the phone to do it. Reading incoming messages only took them a second or two.

    When I get a second or two I will go and find out more about that new study released yesterday. It is clear to me that just as CA's cell phone law, now two years old, has had no effect on cell phone use by drivers, the texting law will do nothing to stop people from texting behind the wheel if they already do it now. Indeed, it is an even more difficult law to enforce, as texting can mostly be done below the window line of the car, which is then completely invisible to passing law enforcement officers.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    So I guess it was a University of Utah study, linked here: http://hfs.sagepub.com/cgi/rapidpdf/0018720809353319?ijkey=gRQOLrGlYnBfc&keytype- - - - =ref&siteid=sphfs

    Virginia Tech claims it's 23 times more dangerous:
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/07/study_texting_is_riskiest_cell.html

    The Virginia Tech article has a poll at the bottom asking people if they use their cellphone while driving, "often", "only in emergencies", or "never".

    I took the poll and got the results: 59% said "often".

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The world has changed, what people did behind the wheel yesterday is not what they do behind the wheel today. Today, there seem to be a bunch of drivers focused on all things electronic.

    It's not that there less fatalities or less crashes, it's that playing with the radio has been replaced by playing with the cell phone. And crashing due to fixation on the radio has been replaced by crashing due to fixation with the screen of an electronic device. While the numbers at this point were and are elusive, how many crashes/fatalities are actually due to hardware failure vs everything else, which would be driver error of some sort? And what was the driver error?

    Until that question can be answered we are in the proverbial dark ages.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    I will agree with the last point, and will stop any debate there :)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The off-topic posts about the "other" debate have been sent to the round file.

    I have a pre-paid cell now and took a call the other day after pulling over. I just about have to read the instructions just to remember how to turn the durn thing on though, since I rarely use it.

    The gizmo that's going to bite me is my portable nav device. I know I can't plug in a POI while moving but it can be a bit distracting just trying to hit the section of the touchscreen to have the text to speech repeated so I can find my next turn.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Texting is very dangerous. It is a visual/manual intensive task. There is a lot of debate about where someone's mind is while they are driving, but there is very little debate as to where someone's eyes are while they are driving.

    By many industry guidelines, anything requiring more than a 2 second glance or 15 seconds total eyes off road time is a fail. This is why you can't put a destination into a navigation system while moving...unless you get an aftermarket one, which is a crash waiting to happen.

    As far as talking on a phone: cell phone market penetration over 10 years: 900%; highway crashes/fatalities as a ratio of vehicle miles traveled: lowest levels in recent history.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
  • 53chevypu53chevypu Member Posts: 1
    Why do people need to talk on a cell phone while eating in a resturant, waiting in line at a supermarket, or while watching a movie in a public theater? The list goes on and on about where people show their rudeness with a cell phone. My question is this: How did we ever survive without a telephone permenantly attached to our ear?
    I doubt any of those conversations are that important. Just my opinion.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    They aren't important...but they make the yapper feel important.

    Kind of like the recent trend of late adopters wearing bluetooth earpieces around like jewelry. It looks dopey.
  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    I can adjust volume & change channels on the car radio without taking my eyes or attention away from the driving task at hand, simply by touch. Far different and less attention necessary than engaging in conversation by text. Certainly not fixated on the radio - it just doesn't take that much brain power.

    Nav is neat, but I so rarely travel outside of my local area that it would be a waste. I know my way around having lived here all my life. Great for the road warriors, though.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    I get the texters especially. :shades:
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Use of cell phones by drivers in moving vehicles is a dangerous scourge that really needs to be effectively addressed by state legislatures. The problem is: the cell phone lobby is extremely strong at the federal, state, and local levels. The United States is such a politically-correct country, and the politicians are in the pockets of most lobbyists, so I personally don't hold out much hope. The USA needs to get the attention of drivers... maybe we should approach it as in Ireland:

    Ireland Cell Phone Laws when Driving:

    "Banned, with a US$380 and/or up to 3 months imprisonment on a third offense. Hands free kits allowed, although that is subject to review."
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    They aren't important...but they make the yapper feel important.

    You guys are so silly. I talk on my phone in public, and it doesn't make me feel important.

    Phone etiquette is still evolving of course, but I don't use it in a movie theater or a nice restaurant. Burger King and Applebees don't qualify as nice restaurants in that context.

    But I speak to people on my phone in other public places for the same reasons you do when you answer your phone at home. Does that make you feel important?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    Some day you will get tired of being "wired" 24/7 and realize that you are not going to be rich and famous and all that talk and text while your family is being ignored or your attention to the road is ignored and it is just a huge waste of time. I think you should look at this phrase that was posted up above in a previous observation of addicted cell phone user's

    " me-first-because-my-time-and-life-are-more-important-than-yours mentality"
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    15 seconds total eyes off road is a fail? How 'bout in the blink of an eye? I friend of mine got into a car accident in the span of a yawn.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Many cars come with steering wheels controls. Even then cognizant drivers can extend their hand to the radio without taking their eyes off the road. My son got into a minor fender bender while looking at the radio, his car had steering wheel controls. Big lesson learned with minimal damage.
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    My niece was recently hit (t-boned) by a young lady who was texting while driving. My niece spent 5 days in ICU, but will be fine. A few broken bones and some scars at this point. Her car was totaled. The young lady who hit her acknowledged texting while driving and said she texts all the time and it never impacts her driving. Phone records show her last few texts she sent were basically unimportant to most of us. They were: "wazzup" and "where u at" and "lmao". I hope she was happy with her answers as it nearly cost my niece her life. My nieces 2009 corolla was totaled and I'm not sure of the damages to the car of the young texter.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Some day you will get tired of being "wired" 24/7 and realize that you are not going to be rich and famous and all that talk and text while your family is being ignored or your attention to the road is ignored and it is just a huge waste of time

    This comes aross as a "holier than thou" argument by an "enlightened" individual and pretty much lacks anything related to logic or scientific method. Its what we call "opinion."

    It also fails to address who people are usually talking to, which in many cases, is a family member. In a relatively recent study among college folks, 40% of calls were family related.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    15 seconds total eyes off road is a fail? How 'bout in the blink of an eye? I friend of mine got into a car accident in the span of a yawn.

    That would be the 2 second glance duration measure,not 15 seconds. Each element in a task cannot last more than 2 seconds, up to 15 seconds total. In the studies I have performed over the last ~10 years, its very very difficult to get an experienced driver to look away from the road for more than 2 seconds (that would be a 1.5 second glance with 250 msec for the saccade to look up or look down).

    If your friend had a crash in the 1.5 second period, he/she was likely not so immersed in the driving scene prior to that.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Even then cognizant drivers can extend their hand to the radio without taking their eyes off the road.

    It depends, the radio controls in my mother's Sienna are mounted so low in the console that it requires a substantial reach and a downward glance that exceeds most down-vision guidelines.

    That said, for most cases, that falls within that 2 second glance duration window. Again, if your son had an issue within that 2 second glance duration window, it was either longer than 2 seconds or he wasn't paying attention prior to the event.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    My home isn't filled with people who don't want to hear the tedious details of my personal life :shades:
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I think he may have me confused with someone in a movie or something, LOL. The people I am talking to ARE my friends and family.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The Sienna is not what I was referring to. I was specific, not taking your eyes, and I'll add your mind, off the road. Finding the tuning knob on the radio for me is like shifting from first to second.

    As I taught my kids, taking your eyes and attention from the road for a millisecond can lead to an accident. Two seconds can be an eternity to the grave in the right situation. And to stay on topic, a cell is a very easy to accomplish disattention.

    I find that studying my own behavior is very beneficial. I voluntarily took a defensive driving course and was surprised on how sloppy my driving had become. Sloppy not in the sense of staying in lane, but sloppy in the sense I stopped anticipating the unexpected. One cannot anticipate the unexpected using a portable electronic device. The drivers who are alert keep the idiots safe, thank the Lord for alert drivers.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I find that studying my own behavior is very beneficial. I voluntarily took a defensive driving course and was surprised on how sloppy my driving had become. Sloppy not in the sense of staying in lane, but sloppy in the sense I stopped anticipating the unexpected.

    That is an excellent thing to do. I think if more drivers did stuff like that, a lot of the issues around driver distraction would go away. People would be more aware of the choices they are making and understand the risks involved at various times.

    One cannot anticipate the unexpected using a portable electronic device

    Eyes on the road, hands on the wheel, integrated hands free mobile phone system wouldn't really be using a portable electronic device, the same with the Ford and Hyundai systems that incorporate iPod control by voice. To a lesser degree, the Acura and Cadillac systems that allow iPod control via nav system display (which still lockout phone address book search while driving) are also reasonable solutions.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    "It also fails to address who people are usually talking to, which in many cases, is a family member. In a relatively recent study among college folks, 40% of calls were family related"

    Nice to throw in a "study" Don't you know that 92% of studies are 89% wrong and the other 19% are just made up numbers :) If throwing some study in about college kids texting there parents at 2:00 in the morning helps you win the topic then the more power to you brother.

    Sent by my Blackberry @ 85MPH
  • puffin1puffin1 Member Posts: 276
    It's something else when tou are out to dinner and the person in the next booth is takking on a cell phone.
    I'm 6'4 and had my dress blues on and walked over toher booth and told her I had PTSD and to shut it down. It was Nov.10th the nite of the Marine Corps Ball. Her husband just looked at me. She shut id down and I slept on the couch that night.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Nice to throw in a "study" Don't you know that 92% of studies are 89% wrong and the other 19% are just made up numbers If throwing some study in about college kids texting there parents at 2:00 in the morning helps you win the topic then the more power to you brother.

    Actually, its called science. It a processes of developing hypothesis and then evaluating that hypothesis against a null, or chance. This is an especially challenging concept for those that lack logic skills.

    The report was about voice calls, not texting, and there was TOD information IIRC. I believe drunk dial calls to ex-girlfriends/parents were excluded.

    Texting is pretty ugly, until that visual manual task is replaced by a voice task, there is no way it should be allowed in a vehicle.

    Happy holidays everyone...drive safely.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >Sent by my Blackberry 85MPH

    Actually you need a better blackberry. Electronic communications should be at almost the speed of light and is slowed only by transfers within a tower's electronics.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Why do you HAVE to text or talk on the phone WHILE YOU'RE DRIVING?
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    "Why do you HAVE to text or talk on the phone WHILE You're DRIVING?"

    Thank you. That is the million dollar question. If drinking while driving is illegal why in the world are people allowed to text while driving? I can not understand why you would type in a message if you can speak? or better yet just wait till you are not driving?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Why do you HAVE to text or talk on the phone WHILE YOU'RE DRIVING?

    Why do you have to tune the radio while driving?

    Why do you have to eat a cheeseburger while driving?

    Why do you have to pick your nose while driving?

    Texting and talking are separate issues. Texting using a hand held visual-manual device will very likely be illegal very soon. Good luck enforcing it, but the act will be illegal.

    Talking, especially using an integrated hands free system, is a totally different discussion from texting.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    "Why do you have to pick your nose while driving?"

    Hey I resemble that remark :D

    Looks like we agree that texting while driving is the really stupid thing to do.
    Have a great Holiday season
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    You still didn't answer the question. Why is it necessary (and you apparently think it is or you would simply answer the question) to do ANYTHING with a cell phone WHILE YOU'RE DRIVING?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Why do you have to tune the radio while driving? Because I don't have to take my eyes or mind off the road to do it and I want to change the station?

    Why do you have to eat a cheeseburger while driving? Because I don't have to take my eyes or mind off the road to do it and I am hungry?

    Why do you have to pick your nose while driving? Because I can. :shades
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