Villager/Quest Knock Sensor
Hello guys... I have a 99 Mercury Villager, and I read hundreds of posts about the knock sensor codes, but still could not get an answer to my question. Basically, my check engine light is on and I am getting error codes for a bad knock sebsor. The van is fine when its started, but within minutes you can feel intermittent puffs of exhaust at the tail pipe. I verified that all the spark plugs and injectors are good. The Hayes manual says that you can check the knock sensor by finding the KS sub-harness next to the intake manifold, but the manual only shows diagrams of the KS harness for models up to 1998. When I looked next to the manifold, there is a rectangular harness with several (about 40) wires going in one side and out the other. I am not sure if I am supposed to test the KS using the white white wire in that harness. Also, would I pierce the back end of the harness with a multipeter probe, or undo the harness, and connect to one of the ends?
Do you think it's worth spending the $500 to have it replaced?
Thanks a ton!!
Do you think it's worth spending the $500 to have it replaced?
Thanks a ton!!
0
Comments
There's another test about disconnecting the EMC harness connector, finding terminal 64 and checking the resistance between it and ground, and look for a 500-620 KΩ on your ohmmeter.
I'll see if I can find my scanner and post the manual pages on my CarSpace page.
Steve, Host
SUVs and Speed Shop
Album: 1999 Quest repair info
Steve, Host
SUVs and Speed Shop
1999 villager estate w/ 75K miles. recent major svc incl fuel filter, belts, battery, and air filters.
Our check engine light is on. It came on intermittantly then stayed on. Opened gas cap and it went gurgle gurgle gurgle and the light went out.
It came back on yesterday (all the same tank of gas) and the
local service station checked the codes this am.
They want 750 to replace the knock sensor.
Should be get a 2nd opinion? Maybe a nissan/merc dealer?
thanks
k
Our problems started when we had the engine changed out after the timing belt broke and trashed the original.
I bought an OBD II computer to read the error codes and got knock sensor P0325 which will NOT trip the check engine light, and the occasional cylinder misfire P0360 which will.
I looked at the manual to see how to change out the sensor, and found that it is a joke. You have to basicly take apart the top of your engine. To have a shop do it is tremendously expensive due to the man hours involved....Still..I would do it if I knew it would solve the problem. My understanding is that it probably won"t. Knock sensors themselves are very simple devices, basicly a microphone that hears the sounds of detonation, and then sends a small voltage to the ECM and retards the timing...
Many things can 'set off' the knock sensor, and by the number of posts on this subject it is likely that we all have good sensors, and bad whatevers...
I went to 4door.com and paid an expert 20 dollars for the information that some kind soul posted here by scanning the Manual...Thanks for that.
I am going to trouble shoot the sensor circuit and see if the resistance and voltages are OK. I will tell you how this comes out.
I will NOT replace the sensor, due to the high cost, until I know for sure that it is bad. As I have said, I suspect it is something else.
These are supposed to be non-interference engines; can you detail what happened and the mileage when your belt broke? Maybe we should move this to a timing belt discussion?
thanks,
Steve, Host
SUVs and Speed Shop
so i'll burn up some gas and see what happens.
(and as an aside, the local service station crew charges us $73 for 'diagnostics and resetting codes)
Guess we'll not be going back THERE in any hurry.
From all the advise I have gotten, after extensive research, I have decided that it's a better idea not to change the knock sensor. Along with the 500+ cost, you could have problems later on such as coolant leaks and overall engine issues since it is a pretty major surgery to the engine.
Instead switch to premium gas, and have the codes erased. Also , make sure that all your injectors and plugs are good. You may just have a misfire due to a bad injector.
Since the sole purpose of the knock sensor is to help the engine deal with low octane gas causing premature detonation, you may be able to get around the issue by using premium gas.
hope this helps...
And thanks to all of you...I didn't know any of this stuff a few weeks ago.
Good luck...
There was a previous post about this exact problem and he never received a response. I'm a rural mail carrier and I have to have working windows. Any help would be greatly appreciated! :lemon:
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The radiator fan blew a fuse and melted through the lead wires. When I stopped the car because it was getting hot, I couldnt roll up the windows. I replaced the fuse for the power windows but they still wont roll up. They dont seem to be connected in any way to the radiator fan motor. Do they possibly share a ground wire? The fan motor is shot. It costs 116 dollars from autozone. The dealer wants 340$. Does anyone think that these two problems are connected? The fuse for the windows did not blow, so i doubt that it has anything to do with the motor. The passenger side and driver side wont roll up. Does anyone know anything about this? The radiator fan looks easy, but does anyone know how to fix the windows?
That post doesn't seem to have gotten any answers. You can try searching the posts here by typing words like "radiator fan", "windows", or "fuse" in the search box at the top of the group here: NIssan Quest.
If you don't see a discussion here that fits your question, feel free to start a new discussion by clicking the "Add a Discussion" link in the group here: NIssan Quest
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We had a similar issue. Local shop wanted $700 to replace the knock sensor. I said no. Meanwhile, the check engine light came and went (mostly my blushing bride drives this car). I got behind the wheel the other day and it felt and sounded like it was not firing on all cylinders.
I checked the leads coming off the distributor and some of them were decidedly loose. They are a circular cylinder receptacle with a slightly smaller cylinder for the plug. I spread the plug a tiny bit with needle nose pliers and the connection became better and the check engine light went out and the engine seems to be firing on all cylinders.
$700 indeed!
Happy Holidays
Here's the situation: Family road trip along I-70. I'm getting warm and notice that the blower fan is not working. Naively, I think to myself that "it's probably a fuse; I'll check when we stop for gas." About 10 miles further down the road, I hear a "clunk" as if the cruise control had suddenly disengaged and the car starts to slow down.
I press the gas pedal with the intention of getting back up to highway speed, but I get no response from the gas pedal. I do *not* get the high pitch whine of an engine revving in neutral. It simply does not respond.
The car continues to slow down, but the needle on the speedometer slowly rises (70 mph is about 1 o'clock on the speedometer -- the needle slowly "fell" to the maximum speed, at about the 5 o'clock position on the dial).
I gradually coast to a stop and shut everything down. After muttering a few words and eye balling the distance to the closest exit, I decide to try to start it up again.
It starts like a charm; and, everything works. The blower fan is blowing. The car responds to the gas pedal and moves forward.
I then drove the vehicle to the next town (about 45 miles) and consulted with a couple of mechanics. After carefully explaining to me that we were chasing a ghost, they recommended that we replace the speed sensor.
We did replace the speed sensor. And at this point, we've driven the car another 1000 miles or so without incident.
But I no longer have confidence in the car. I'm not sure that we really fixed the problem. What do you all think?
Thanks,
Dave
If I am looking at all of the photos correctly, this sensor is located between the top 3 spark plugs, and the lower 3 spark plugs. I am not sure if there was a change in the model just before the 1999 model or not, thus causing the manuals to be incorrect on what is req'd to change it out.
Also I have found a web site that does sell the knock sensor, but it is showing 2 different ones, the first matches the one in Steves post, the other one matches the one that I think I am seeing in my van.
http://replacement.car-stuff.com/parts/carstuff/wizard.jsp?year=1999&make=MR&model=VILL--008&category=F&part=Knock Sensor&returnurl=null&dp=true&showdc=true#top
Thanks for any advise any one has.
I don't know the build date of my Quest off-hand; maybe that's the difference in the parts though since the first one refers to a 9/1998 and up model?
Steve, visiting host
Hello. My problem/question is.... after I drive for a few miles, my speedometer, which is digital, registers the correct mph and then drops and jumps around to 0, 4, 0, 1, 3, etc. and the check engine light goes on and off intermittently.
I haven't checked to see if the cruise goes out yet.
There's a gas mileage indicator on the left side that will show, mpg, average mpg, miles left in tank, temperature, etc. and that will then read 7.7 mpg.... 0 mpg. Anyhow, the numbers go all haywire. The outside temp is okay.
When I turn the vehicle off, start it up again, it's okay and registers correctly for a few miles and the indicator on the left shows the numbers correctly and is racking up the average mpg. Then it wacks out again.
After I turn it off and put the key in the accessory position, nothing lights up.
Is this all electrical, or can it be from a bad tranny sensor?
This all happened when I left it at a Ford dealers on consignment. AND OF COURSE they are not responsible. I picked it up, started to drive it home, and the above happened.
HELP, please. Thank you.
I have a 1997 Villager with 130K on it. The van has been running fine until two days ago. I went out to start it and it spits, sputters, backfires and dies.
Let me explain more. I turn the ignition key on and can here the fuel pump run for around 5 seconds (normal). I start the engine and it idles perfectly for about 5 to 8 seconds. It then starts to die off. Pressing the gas pedal only causes it to rev slightly and then it starts to spit and sputter and backfire and dies. If I start it and hold the gas pedal down it will rev up and then the rpms just drop off no matter how far I hold the pedal down.
My brother-in-law-to-be came over and we pulled the knock sensor code by way of the flashing check engine code. (The check engine light never came on before this happened) After getting a Haynes book and following the testing procedure of tapping on the manifold and testing voltage change, it seems to be working but I cannot get and Ohm reading on it???? :mad:
I have replaced the spark plug, distrib cap and rotor to no avail.
I hope this is not a boring read but I want to give as much information as I know.
Can anyone lead me in any direction????
Did you ever figure this one out.
I have a 95 murcury villager with a similar problem.
The van runs great for 15-20 minutes, then when it is warm has no power, barely runs.....
The problem started after I needed to jupstart the van, and then replace the battery.
I have verified the following
FUel pump and delivery is good.
Checked the Spark at each plug,,,, all good, even when its running bad.( Still can be a timing problem.)
Eliminated the catalytic converter,
Thought the TPS was faulting took it off measured all of that, all checks ok, but on the van the voltage measurements don't match the Haynes book. So this might get replaced.
and I am measuring the Power Transistor.
I get the opposite results of what the Hayes manual says too.
Positive terminal of Ohm meter to A and negative terminal of meter to Pin B I get an open circuit.
Attach the negative probe to to teminal A and the positive terminal to C and I get a reading....
Reverse the leads on last test and I do not get a reading, So i think there is some type of diode, that is in there that makes a difference in what terminal you probe with your meter neg or pos.
Since my measurements did not match the Hayes book, I was pretty sure that this power transitor was failing. So I plan on getting a new one. But when I see that you question the Haynes book. I wonder if it is even bad.
I guess when I get it I will carefully measure the new one and compare it to the old..... The Hayes book might not be correct??
I saw another dicussion around grounding of the PCM....
May try that this weekend.
Thanks for the response, I think this is my last effort to fix this problem.
I do most of my own mechanical work and was not afraid to look into the insides of this distributor, I may not have dug deep enough, because the insides of what I saw were very clean, I got as deep as seeing the timing wheel with the 360 slots in it and wiped it with a tissue. a very small amount of black came off but not a lot of stuff. the screws on the sensor looked like they were filled in with epoxy, so I left them alone. . As I mentioned in my previous note. There are no codes being stored in the computer. I suspected the Ignition module because my resistance measurements did not match the Haynes book reference. The book is wrong.or I am interpreting it incorrectly. I have all of the measurements written down from the new module if anyone needs a reference.. where they mention there should be open circuit, it is not and where you should have conductivity, it is open... So I went out and bought a new ignition module....Before I put it in I did the same exact resistance measurement on the new module. The new module measured very close to the old one, I put it in anyway and restarted the van...It runs great until the engine compartment reaches operating temperature.
I had a small can of freeze spray and began to spray individual modules to try to isolate this problem. Well I ran out of spray. So I was getting pretty frustrated and grabbed the garden hose..Now I do not recommend spraying a hot engine with a garden hose, I did manage to trickle cold water over individual parts. Luckily I started right at the distributor. I already had new wires, rotor and Cap, so I was not to worried about getting water on them. I removed the plastic dust cover from the distributor, While the van was running, trickled cold water, very slowly over the distibutor and kept teting the throttle, When warm it would idle ok but would not run smoothly over 2000 rpm..I cooled the distributor until I could feel that the aluminum base was cold to the touch. When in that state the van runs perfectly. I allowed it to warm up again and verified this at least 6 times.
So in a round about way I think I have determined that this distributor needs replacing. I just ordered an brand new one from a company on EBAY for $105, I will repost all of this in another posting if this solves the problem.
I am glad others have shared their experiences on these forums. I have learned a lot about this van. My regular mechanic did not have the scan tools and told me he did not want to work on it. I I think if I get this running I have saved a lot of money. If this new distributor solves it I will have less than $150 and about 20-40 hours invested.
I will let everyone know how I make out once I get the new part Thanks for your interest.
I should be getting the new distributor next week. If this does solve the problem, I will post a very detailed description of all of the steps I took to determine and fix this problem. Hopefully our comments here can save the next person a lot of trouble. I did read another forum that warned me of going to a FORD dealership... Nissan dealership was strongly suggested. If I get away with these repairs only costing me $150 I will be real happy since I see what this could have cost me.
If this does not fix the problem, you will see may 95 Mercury Villager :lemon: parts for sale....Including a new distributor and ignition module.
If this solves my problem all I have left is to replace the 2 rear brake lines... and the kid has a real cool 7 passenger family van to call his own.
I will let you know as soon as I get the new parts installed. Thanks for sharing the infomation
I will write up a detailed description of what I did and how I verified the bad distributor, by cooling it with water. I also want to point out that there may be a mistake in the Haynes Manual around the resistance measurement of the ignition module.
I will get all of my facts straight and post it in a new thread.
Thanks for participating in this forum.... all of this information led me to a much cheaper fix.
Any explanation of what this means (and what it is going to set me back) would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Double check all of the connections at the battery and starter make sure they are clean and tight.
Don't rule out a faulty new battery, I just helped a friend with a similar problem, he was going to change out the starter.... ended up his new battery, about a week old had a bad cell and would not keep a charge. If you have access to a different battery its worth a try to swap it out.
If this is going dead over night, check to make sure there are no lights staying on, I had a glove box light that would draw a battery dead in 1 day.....
If you do have to get to the alternator, I think My 95 was located behind a plastic cover behind the passenger front tire. from underneath.
You will have to jack it up, put it on Jack stands, maybe remove the passenger tire then take the plastic cover off, From what I remember its not to bad to get to once you get under there.
I had no codes being set on the computer.. My problem ended up being the distributor. I got a rebuilt one from Ebay, a company out in california for $100. I had replied to other forums that detailed all of the trouble shooting I did in hopes of saving someone else some money...
Let me know, and I can repost the entire thing.
I think it is worth time time to check this hose just as a preventative maintenance.
But the next day, the check engine light started coming on. It only came on when I came to a stop or slowed down (let off the accelerator, downshifting) or, as time progressed, climbed a hill.
Our first guess was that something was still wet from the washing. Everyone told us to just drive it, that it would dry off with time and use. At first, it seemed as if it was improving. But in a matter of 3 or 4 days, it had progressively gotten worse. It idled evenly (wasn't missing), started up just fine, and shut off fine too. But once I started driving it, all bets were off. At the height of the trouble, once it was in gear, as I drove down the road, it basically would jump forward over and over as I limped down the road. It would shift very badly, if at all. This came across as the tachometer racing upwards when I gave it gas. Then it would jump or slam into the next gear. I could manage by VERY SLOWLY giving it gas, but it still would either not shift at all or balk and then jump forward repeatedly. When my husband was driving behind us as we (FINALLY!) drove it to our mechanic, he said as it shot forward, smoke would come out of the tailpipe. I couldn't get it up over 45 mph without even greater shaking and balking.
Our mechanic went over every part. We ruled out cap, wires, plugs (no missing), distributor photosensor, EGR, BPT, etc. He ran the codes on it and first got a knock sensor reading. He kept getting that error code. We began to research that sensor malfunction and were not happy with what we found. We knew that since it would be expensive to replace what might not turn out to be the solution, we had to keep looking. This might be the end of our family van. But as it turned out, the knock sensor wasn't malfunctioning, it was screaming that there was another problem.
One thing our mechanic did was check the computer for shorts. In doing this, he unplugged it. When he hooked it up again, he ran codes again. THIS time, the TPS sensor problem code appeared.
Exasperated, I contacted Nissan. I needed to know what we were dealing with. A very experienced tech said that the knock sensor itself will not cause the check engine light to come on. He said that all our symptoms could be explained by the malfunction of our TPS sensor, including the weird fact that when the engine was warm and in Park, it would idle low (normal) and then idle higher (like a cold carburetor from the old vehicles we used to own) for no reason. It never did that before all this. Evidently, the TPS allows the engine and transmission to talk with each other and the computer. He very patiently explained everything, and it all made sense.
When the TPS code first came up, our mechanic unhooked the lead to the TPS and drove it, trying to rule it out (like he had done with the other parts in question). When it STILL didn't run right, he thought it wasn't the answer. But our handy dandy Nissan tech said it was and to replace the entire wiring harness and sensor. We went ahead and had our mechanic put in a new TPS ($45 at parts store) and our mechanic discovered that there are actually TWO leads from that sensor. Since he had only disconnected one, that was why the problem didn't disappear when he thought he had completely disconnected it.
So now our van actually runs better than it did even before my husband washed the engine (we now know how to do it better).
Looking back, I can tell that this sensor, which somehow tragically failed when it was washed, wasn't working up to par for at least the past 6 months. It shifts SO smoothly now. It shifted OK before but had an annoying bump as it went from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. Now, it's smooth all around. We didn't need to replace the wiring harness, but would if it gives us more trouble down the road. I wonder how many people have their transmission serviced or replaced when they only need a new sensor. Hope this helps.