Mitsubishi Outlander Test Drives

tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
edited March 2014 in Mitsubishi
Tell us about your test drive here!

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Comments

  • outlander2007outlander2007 Member Posts: 22
    Quick question for those who already test drove a new 2007 Outlander. Is the 6cyl engine still noisy? If you get 10% discount and 60 month 0% financing on 2006 Limited AWD, would you consider buying it, or would you rather purchase 2007 model paying several thousands more in interest and possible > price?
  • mrmister2000mrmister2000 Member Posts: 86
    Well, I can't speak for whether or not the engine is noisy since I have yet to test drive one, but I can say that I would NEVER buy a 2006 or earlier Outlander. It's a matter of personal opinion, but I just think that the earlier design is plain-ugly and also the previous generation doesn't have nearly the level of technology and safety features that's available in the '07. I make less than $40K a year in salary and I'm also single... so if I'm going to put down any amount of money for a new car I want to make sure it's as cutting-edge as it can be for the money. But again, that's just a matter of personal taste. I'm sure there are many others who could easily live with having the previous generation if it meant they would be saving a ton of money.
  • viamedeviamede Member Posts: 26
    Previous generation is smaller than a Matrix and gets much poorer mileage. It is a bit more rugged and still has AWD but other than that it is not surprising it hasn't sold better. The new Outlander has more room and substantially better features. Other than its position size wise in the Mitsu lineup there really isn't much more than the name in common with the old model.Actually I don't mind the old Outlander's looks but I need something bigger and the new one looks like it might fit the bill.
  • outlander2007outlander2007 Member Posts: 22
    It seems that new 2007 has cheap-looking interior, and it will cost you, probably, 5000 more because of financing rate. On 2006 you can get up to $3000 Cash-back. I wish I could compare them side-by-side, but here in Canada we will have to wait until February of 2007. I've already test-drove the new 2007 Honda CR-V (fully loaded). Nice car, but definitely needs > power (they only offer 4Cyl), and it's very expensive compare to 2006 AWD Limited Outlander, which comes with 4Cyl also, leather, sun-roof, etc).
  • rcpaxrcpax Member Posts: 580
    "It seems that new 2007 has cheap-looking interior"

    Well, as they say, to each his own. I actually saw 5 of these already, and I like the interior. Maybe you meant the dashboard. But to say the whole interior of the car is an understatement. Maybe you are referring to the entry level trims, not the leather seats on the XLS.
  • sampowerssampowers Member Posts: 30
    This morning I test drove a Outlander. And yes I was impressed. The interior is not as bad a some may say. I have a 2005 Mazda 3 and the interior is about the same grade. Hard plastics mixed with soft vinyl. The leather in the XLS is nice, but that's not my cup of tea. I test drove a ES with base equipment, and the Outlander is impressive in person. I really liked the front seat pushed all the way back, and I had plenty of leg room for long drives. The e-shift is nice, although I don't expect to use it much. The engine has a lot of pep, very little understeer and little body roll.

    I wish the steering wheel was telescopic, and the "storage bin" is really more like a shallow hole under a lid.

    GAS: I saw 19/27 mixed was about 22MPG. I WANT ONE!!! Now comes the big test, my wife has to like it also.
  • tom5314tom5314 Member Posts: 20
    I test drove it yesterday. I spent like 15mn in local streets, no hwy testing. I dont know how much noisy you are talking to but it's a "quiet" engine to me. Remember it's a V6 advantage. Good accelerate too for typical SUV.
  • outlander2007outlander2007 Member Posts: 22
    Yes, i was referring to 2007 base model. I am sure that Top Model will have nicer interior, including leather, etc, BUT it will cost ya... I am in Canada, and right now with "0" Down and "0" % for 60 months i can get a fully loaded Limited AWD with leather, sunroof, etc for about $640/month x 60 months = $38,400. With %rate of 6% this car will cost you several thousands more. Guys please let me know in $$$ how much is the difference between Top Outlander (Limited AWD) 2006 and Top Model 2007. I would appreciate i you, lucky people, who already test drove it, would let us know if the 6Cyl engine is really nice and quiet. Does new model come in Red? Thanks in advance. What is the Interest Rate on 2007?
  • outlander2007outlander2007 Member Posts: 22
    Thx for your reply. Just go back to your dealership and take 2006 one for a spin. Push the gas pedal down and you will understand what do i mean by "noisy". To be fare, RAV4 4cyl engine makes as much noise if not more. And i am not talking about road/wind noise. This noise is coming from engine compartment through the fire wall/dash board. Question for those who tested both 2006 and 2007: is it really like Day and Night? Is there huge difference in handling, body roll, noise (sorry LOL)? Would you say it's worth spending about 5000 or more on similar 2006 and 2007 models (Limited, fully loaded, exept for GPS, DVD, etc).
  • dodo2dodo2 Member Posts: 496
    I have a 2005 Mazda3 GT (Canadian version with I4 2.3L) as well and if 07 Outlander's interior is as good as Mazda's I would be more than happy. My only concern is the feel of the door panels which seem to be hard plastic from top to the bottom with a patch of fabric on the elbow rest. Not as nice as in Mazda3, but like I said in a posting before, the RAV4's door panels are the same style so not a real step down from the class "benchmark". I don't think the dashboard quality will be a problem b/c I like the texture plastic - similar as in Mazda3. I did not like the black base around the gear shifter, but this is a minor detail. However, I will know after the first few seconds in the Outlander's cabin if I like it or not. I'm optimistic because I'm really set to buy it early next year. I think I might go south of border to have a pick at it before it comes to Canada.
    A link to the Motor Week review this Saturday:
    2007 Outlander Motor Week review October 28, 2006
  • dodo2dodo2 Member Posts: 496
    I think it will be available in Red. This is what I will be getting too. On one Mitsubishi dealer's web site in the US I saw two shades of red listed for the 2007 Outlander.
  • mrmister2000mrmister2000 Member Posts: 86
    Two shades of red, you say? My '99 Ford Ranger Splash is the most beautiful shade of red I've ever seen... it's a Glossy-Dark, Burgandy Red and it SHINES day and night. Ahhhh... if only the Outlander could be available in that color! *droools*
  • ahightowerahightower TXMember Posts: 539
    2006 versus 2007, they're somewhat different cars. The new one is larger and has a V6. The 2006 is a very good vehicle as well. I had a 2004 XLS and loved every minute of it. We had to trade it for a minivan when our family outgrew it, but it's one of the best cars I've ever owned. The 4-cylinder is plenty powerful enough, especially since they upped the power for 2004 and later. I think the style is unique and like the fact that you don't see many of them on the road. The resale value is not going to be as good as say a RAV4 or CR-V, but you're getting a big discount, and if you plan to keep it for a long time, that's not a big deal.

    I was always impressed with the ride and handling of my 2004, and the interior seemed very high quality compared to most American made cars I've been in. Also counting against the 2007, I prefer not to buy first-year models of new vehicles. Give it a year or two for all the bugs to work out.

    In the end, it's just a matter of personal preference. If you like the 2006, go ahead and get it. It's a great ride. If you need the extra space and want to spend a little more, get the 2007, I'm sure it will be very reliable as well.
  • outlander2007outlander2007 Member Posts: 22
    Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this subject. I just came from "Mega Mitsubishi" (dealership in Province Quebec, Canada)... Drove almost 40km from my home in Ontario, because their sales person "gave me a very good deal" over the phone... Well, you know what people say: if it sounds too good to be true... "
    That sneaky guy gave me his "best price" $621.30 per month and promised that there will be no "surprises" when i come in... However, there was one, which stopped me from purchasing my 2006 Outlander today. When i looked at the contract, all payments were $310.65 bi-weekly... And he tried to convince me that my monthly payment is $310.65 x 2= $621.30. What a moron! As soon as i realized that instead of $37,400, i will be paying $310.65 x 26 (payments per year) x 5 (years) = $40,384.50 ... i kinda became very-very-very upset with this moron. Anyway, tomorrow will start talking to my Ontario Sales person... will see what they can offer.
  • sampowerssampowers Member Posts: 30
    Just a side note The Outlander has been on the road since 2005 in Japan. So I guess technically its not a "first year model" I do agree with your opinion about "first year models though.
  • abangabang Member Posts: 44
    I test drove the 07 Outlander XLS today here in Portland, Oregon. It's a good looking rig. The interior was nice, not luxurious but what do you expect. The door panels were hard plastic. Seats were comfy.

    Power was adequate. The paddle shifters were nice to play with. One thing I noticed is there's quite a bit of road noise on the freeway. Handling was good. The 3rd row seats are definitely for children only and only for short trips. I'd never take kids on a long road trip in the 3rd row, that would be cruel and unusual punishment. The 2nd row seats flip and tumble forward to get access to the 3rd row. I did not try stowing the 3rd row seat.

    I'm not sure I like the keyless ignition. Can you use a key as a backup? I did not check to see if there's a keyslot.

    Mileage on the window sticker is 19 city, 22 highway. Not great. However, I was shown the invoice price and my price would be $200 over invoice.

    I'm pleased with the Outlander overall and am now starting to shop for a loan to get this.
  • cuvlovercuvlover Member Posts: 2
    May I ask from which dealer you got your quote? Beaverton Mitsubishi or Town & Country Mitsubishi? $200 over invoice sounds good.
  • dodo2dodo2 Member Posts: 496
    Yep. I thought there is only one red color available as it appears on the pictures posted on the Internet, but this dealer was listing two different red colors. I guess we'll wait and see. I know I will be getting a red one when the time comes.
  • dodo2dodo2 Member Posts: 496
    But not with the same engine. The Japanese version has an I4 2.4L.
  • dodo2dodo2 Member Posts: 496
    I like the "Japanese" red. Check it out ...

    07 Outlander Japanese Colors
  • autoculeautocule Member Posts: 1
    I was testing ES model ,LS 4wd is was not ready for test drive because they just come in ,for $$ car is more than perfect MPG in city is was 17 MPG, on hwy i cant tell is was windy day ,sticker says 20/27. Is anyone was testing 4wd to tell me what is real MPG ,sticker says 19/22 for 4wd internet says 19/26 that is big negative for MITSH.. Costumers are on MPG ,or if is not mistake i dont think sales will go well
  • abangabang Member Posts: 44
    I got my price quote from Ray Reece Mitsubishi. Please go through their internet department. I went to www.mitsucars.com to locate Ray Reece and contacted Ray Reece through their web site. If you just waltz in, you'll probably not get the same deal as Edmunds has pointed out in their how to buy a car series. I'd give you the salesman's name but I believe that's not allowed by Edmunds.
  • dodo2dodo2 Member Posts: 496
    No worries guys. EPA rating is 19/26 for 4WD and 20/27 for 2WD. Period. However, it's just a guide that may be different from the real world consumption as for any other vehicle.
    EPA Guide
    It must be a mistake or misunderstanding. I heard about a combined estimate of 22 or 23 mpg so is it possible that somehow this number got posted? I don't know if this is an official estimate or just a guesstimate ...
  • ahightowerahightower TXMember Posts: 539
    What a scam. Tell him that's fine, you'll send your payments on the 1st and 15th!
  • ahightowerahightower TXMember Posts: 539
    Still though, that is a good point, it's not a brand new model. I didn't think of that. Really, I like the new Outlander, but I also have a lot of love for the 2004-2006. Took a lot of great trips in my 2004, and fit a surprising amount of stuff in there. Bunk beds, swing sets. Very versatile vehicle. Always was impressed with the feel of the steering and suspension. Loved the thick leather wrapped steering wheel, and the AC vents. Lots of little details that I enjoyed. I'd definitely still be driving it today if we didn't need the extra space for baby #3.
  • outlander2007outlander2007 Member Posts: 22
    LOL Good idea. Let him have 24 payments instead of 26 and see if he likes it... In addition to that trick with bi-weekly payments, he said that they use leatherette instead of real leather. However, he could not confirm / verify that. I am getting sick and tired talking to these guys... People, please tell me if Limited AWD model should have the REAL STUFF (Leather) or leatherette?
  • njawdrivernjawdriver Member Posts: 23
    Has anyone found an Outlander in NJ? I've called a few dealers and none seem to have any idea when it will be in. One did comment that Mitsu will be "pushing" the 2WD version, but will also have an available AWD version.

    I am hoping to purchase a car in the next 2-3 weeks and don't want to jump into the RAV4 (CR-V already ruled out) without giving the Outlander a chance!
  • rcpaxrcpax Member Posts: 580
    Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

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    Here's the one I'd likely take out for a test drive. Hopefully I get my operator's license this week so I can get behind the wheel already. It's the base XLS model. So I get to play with the paddle shifters, and see if I would really need it, or will the shifting of the 6speed auto be smooth enough for me to cross the paddle shifters out of my wishlist (the stick shift will be tested too). Too bad I haven't seen one with the Navi yet, or one with the Sun and Sound package. The rest of the vehicles in the nearby dealerships are all base ESs and LSs.
  • dodo2dodo2 Member Posts: 496
    Do you know by any chance if the LS will have the fog lights as dealer installed option? Do you have an options list apart from the published packages?
  • turrboenvyturrboenvy Member Posts: 3
  • dodo2dodo2 Member Posts: 496
    Excellent. The phone&fog package is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.
  • tachida2tachida2 Member Posts: 47
    Prestige VW-Mitsubishi on the Black Horse in Washington Twp, Gloucester County has 4 on the lot.
  • jflorjflor Member Posts: 20
    Just when we thought the best thing has happened with the new outlander now comes this possible outlander ralliart. If it does come out in about two years i will be ready to trade in my galant by then.

    http://media.mitsubishicars.com/detail?mid=MIT2006103139915&mime=ASC
  • njawdrivernjawdriver Member Posts: 23
    Thanks for the dealer info - It's over a 2 hour drive, so I guess I wait for the locals to get them in stock.
  • turrboenvyturrboenvy Member Posts: 3
    1) They're jerks. They make us wait this long for dealers to get the new outlander, and THEN introduce an even cooler one we have to wait even longer for?

    2) That's a good move. It'll tie the outlander and evo even more closely together, and people who don't even buy an evolander will still feel like they've got a piece of that action. Maybe. Does the evo help lancer sales?
  • viamedeviamede Member Posts: 26
    My impression was that these were just fun cars and not something that is likely to see the light of day in any showroom.
  • piastpiast Member Posts: 269
    I've tested 07 outlander on 10/28 in Chicago area. They had about six of them on the lot. It's a very nice truck, bit smaller on the outside than expected, but roomy enough inside. As far as interior - sure it's not a Lexus, but comparable with Honda and better than Santa Fe or RAV4 IMO.
    Plastics are similar, front seats much more comfortable, sporty looking, back seats slide and recline. It is pretty easy to open both halves of the gate or tumble rear seats. On the road - nice and quiet, good pick up. I would give it 8 of 10. Millage on the sticker was 19/26 on 4WD XLS.
  • rcpaxrcpax Member Posts: 580
    The Evolander will be a Concept Car. It will never be a production car. If ever an Outlander RalliArt version will come out, the first cue will come from Japan. So far, the best trim you can get for the production Outlander in Japan is the Outlander G-Limited. It's not even a RalliArt version yet. It's got gold rims, and gold accent on the grill. See photos below:

    Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

    Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

    If ever a RalliArt version comes out, it would be probably on the 2nd production year, but not in 2007.

    The XLS, fully loaded, is second to none in features. I thought I never really needed power seats and stuff, but when you get to the dealer and try out these features, you will want one. And one cool thing about the LCD display in the Navi System, it folds out to reveal the loading slot for the DVD, and it's so cool how it fold down that you'd instantly feel a lot has been put into the design of this car.

    The dealership I visited today is willing to give it to me at close to invoice price IF I'd buy it that instant. Of course, I refused, though I was very tempted at that point after seeing all the toys. As CR advises, this is another old trick in the book. So I am taking my time looking around the dealerships, asking them their bottom prices so I have a clear picture how much it will all sum up. Sometimes you gotta play "hard to get" so the dealer don't get the idea you're drooling to drive one home. :P
  • podracerdavepodracerdave Member Posts: 10
    I drove by the local dealership in Elgin, IL yesterday and saw a few parked out front. I hope to test drive it this weekend, along with the CX-7.
  • dodo2dodo2 Member Posts: 496
    Evolander pictures

    Evolander
  • viamedeviamede Member Posts: 26
    Oddly I read a snippet in the paper today that said there will be a RalliArt version of the Outlander but all it mentioned for features were the steering wheel paddle shifters (already on the XLS)and Brembo brakes...so not sounding like much.
  • dodo2dodo2 Member Posts: 496
    If this is all that the article mentioned, the author is an amateur, not to say an idiot.
    More info at the link bellow. Check it out for yourself.
    Evolander at SEMA
  • rcpaxrcpax Member Posts: 580
    The Evolander Concept has all the features you mentioned. A Ralli-Art badge, Ralli-Art front strut bar, and yes they do have Brembo brakes and paddle shifters. Because this vehicle was given the Ralli-Art treatment. So why build a concept car like the Evolander. MMNA's press release is very clear about this.

    “The Evolander builds upon the reputation that the Lancer Evolution sedan has built among tuners and car enthusiasts. Like the Evo, the Evolander boasts a forced induction engine, electronic all-wheel drive, and a tuned suspension that deliver on its Evo-ness,” said Dan Sims, managing director of Mitsubishi Research and Design America. “A vehicle like Evolander, which blends Evolution-style design cues and sport SUV themes, might help inspire tuners to apply their wares to the compact SUV segment.”

    "An exploratory concept, the Evolander represents the design and engineering possibilities of what could be an Outlander Ralliart production model in the future."

    So from that, MMNA made no promise regarding production. It's a forward looking statement. Take the Endeavor RalliArt concept as an example. Featured at SEMA 2004, it never made production status.

    image
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    You may be interested in: Mitsubishi Outlander: Prices Paid & Buying Experience

    tidester, host
  • suv4betsysuv4betsy Member Posts: 38
    Did my first test drive today in dealer's demo Outlander XLS. My impressions might be skewed a bit by the dealer tricking out the wheels already, low profile tires with fancy chrome wheels - not factory XLS. Lots of time wasted on demoing the Nav System, I'm not interested in. IMHO, Nav systems are life savers out of town with rental cars, always on and paying attention during a trip to Europe, but I don't find value in it close to home...don't get me wrong, it is a good system they have, just not on my list to evaluate, back to the drive. In my short freeway drive in moderate traffic about 50mph, the transmission seemed to want to hunt for high gear and slightest acceleration sent it elsewhere - maybe it was more a result of the hesitating freeway traffic or that we left the Auto4WD option engaged on the freeway - some ice on the roads, I didn't play with the paddle shifters. Some road noise, and one of the seats in back was folded down I don't think secured because I heard it rattle. Mirrors are good size, good view behind, and I don't think you can see anything out the rearward side windows. More confident in the 6cyl than in the Honda 4cyl CRV already tested and wife didn't like the RAV4, another option for us. The Highlander awaits a test yet. Overall I like what the Outlander has to offer, it fits very close to raw specs that I'm trying to match in size, weight, cargo cap, engine, fuel economy..they are in demand still in my area with 1 or no XLS's on the dealer lots other trims seem ok on supply. However, I'm still more favorable to our Honda Passport, higher seat visibility, low-gear 4WD, 3.2L engine still good fuel economy for an SUV, avg 18.3mpg. Despite its Isuzu Rodeo faults, I still haven't found from any manuf a replacement for 2007 with the same cargo cap, 4WD, fuel eff. with near 3.0L engine. higher seat ground clearance. I guess the higher center today would most likely be found a rollover test risk so the SUV's are inching closer to the ground - Ford Escape and like Mazda are out as they failed rollover in CR testing. I'm also annoyed by some other manuf (Chev Equinox) with wide A pillars to stuff the side air curtain, I suspect all the manuf are having this problem with the A pillar design, the Equinox seemed severe in this regard, wouldn't even test drive it. I would like to get feedback from others that have already tested the Outlander against the Highlander ;) It's going to be the wife's car so I'm going to send her out to test both soon. We'd go back to Honda, but they need something that fits inbetween the CRV and Pilot, to us the Pilot is too large and CRV is a bit too small. I may be guilty of contributing to Toyota dominance as I already own a new Toyota truck, but I'm honestly searching for a viable alternative.
  • piastpiast Member Posts: 269
    "transmission seemed to want to hunt for high gear and slightest acceleration sent it elsewhere "
    You have to remember it was a demo, trany in privately owned version learn and adopts to your driving habits, not a case on a tester. Highlander will be redesigned in the next 1-2 years. The current one is dated but still overpriced. Mitsu beats Rav4 and CRV in performance, size, value and warranty. I would not agree with you on Passport/Rodeo advantages. Old, heavy frame 4x4 SUVs are short on performance, safety (only two air bags, no traction or stability control, bad crash ratings), economy (your 18.3 mpg average is way too optimistic, I'm getting 16 at most, with EPA ratings of 15/18 mpg). Outlander is rated 19/26 mpg, has the same ground clearance (8.5"), more cargo capacity (39 cu ft in Mitsu and 35 cu ft in Isuzu/Honda), all safety you can imagine, selectable 4WD and rally heritage. I don't think domestics can match its quality and reliability. I think old school SUVs are slowly going away, truly needed only by real offroad crowd. If you think you still need one, check Nissan Xterra, Toyota FJ Cruiser or Jeep. Highlander is not even close with soft, Camry base platform, floaty on road only ride.
  • suv4betsysuv4betsy Member Posts: 38
    Good feedback.. it is a shift from truck to car like design for us, and I'm definitely watchful of the rear storage - I've even asked about pulling that huge speaker out the back ;) I want the sunroof but don't want the tie in to the sound system. If this goes further might look at LS model instead which can still be outfitted with leather seats.

    Old school SUVs going away.. absolutely, that's why another alternative I'm considering is a used Lexus RX330!

    I keep a spreadsheet on all the specs, the Passport is at 3926lbs, Outlander 3791, CRV 3549, RAV 3677, Highlander 3880, Ford Edge 4282, CX-9 4546!!, Santa Fe 4022. I definitely want to stay at or below the Passport weight and still keep the back cargo space.

    Haven't spec'd the Xterra, may have been an option but had coworker warn of mechanical problems and kids can't reach those trademark door latches. Nissan does not have as positive impression on me as Mitsubishi.

    Simple thing here that is going to be problem for my wife, her car afterall, back to truck vs car design. This is what the women love about these, the Passport sits up high, windshield is like truck sharp near vertical angle, thin A pillar (no safety bags), commanding view of the road ahead, lights don't shine in the eyes. Outlander and others, down lower, softer longer angle to windshield, wider A pillar. The Passport feels like a short wheelbase to me, feel like I'm driving a bar stool down the street ;) ..it's not lasting though.. rear wheel bearings just replaced $$$$, front-axles need replacing now, timing belt next, fortunately I know how to take apart and clean EGR valve.. repairs are going to cost more than it's worth and it lacks modern safety features absolutely. I need the 4WD/AWD, it is snowing here now and I may have made a mistake buying 2WD on my Toyota truck, so it stays parked in the garage and I drive the Passport to work now, wife stuck at home! We don't always get snow here, but for the few days that might, the 4WD pays for itself. During snow storm last week I was leaving people stuck on the hills, sliding every which way blocking the lane, while I dodged and plowed past them all, cautious and secure, in 4WD and good Michelin tires, never felt a slip, I still drove very slow, so I'll take some credit at being very cautious plenty of space ahead of me to let the idiots slide out of the way.

    Agree, domestics are most likely out, Ford Explorer probaly nicest interior design, but looked at this replacement issue 6 months ago, gas over $3/gal, can't afford 15mpg car.

    Toyota however has such strong leadership in the marketplace, quality reliablity previous owners swear by them, despite higher price, I have to weigh that against what I don't like in the plain raised station wagon look of the Highlander. I like the RAV better but the back door latch has got to swing up and get the spare underneath. Warranties are great for any car - as long as I never have the hassle of using it ;)
  • gene_vgene_v Member Posts: 235
    "If this goes further might look at LS model instead which can still be outfitted with leather seats."

    Does this mean that the LS can be outfitted with the power drivers seat? I would be interested in the LS then also.
    As I read it the luxury package can only be added to the XLS.
  • suv4betsysuv4betsy Member Posts: 38
    Sorry, I was quoting the dealer that didn't know what he was talking about. Factory leather option is only XLS. Your are correct.

    Discussion gets confused sometimes with the dealers in that our Passport had custom made leather seats installed. At the time the Passport was purchased there were no leather seats available, so the dealer sent the car off the lot and had the seats turned into leather. I guess if I want leather bad enough on any car it can be done custom, but I would think to costly over factory option. They aren't heated and they aren't power.
  • gene_vgene_v Member Posts: 235
    Thanks for the reply. Power is the key to the drivers seat for me as my wife is quite smaller than I and changing a mechanical seat back and forth constantly is for the birds. Several very expensive cars have a two memory power seat. As I said , Very Expensive cars. I can get by with the LS with a power seat but thats not how they make their money by making a package.
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