Luckily all our big PU Trucks and SUVs in So California have managed to keep us at our normal temperatures or a little above. It was 77 yesterday here. Should be about the same today. I have tried putting extra miles on the Sequoia to do my part in blocking the new Ice age that seems to be upon US. It is difficult with all the geeks in Prius blocking the roads. :P
But I keep hearing that it is the arctic areas that are warming the most; with the ice caps retreating, and the sea-ice becoming thin and disappearing. Yet everytime I hear of temperatures dropping to -30F in MN, or into the 20F's in Florida, its's blamed on the arctic air. So how is the Arctic warming and the ice melting when the air even after travelling 1,000 miles south still causes -20F and -30F readings?
What do you think will happen to our modern society in these areas if we don't use coal, oil, and natural gas for heating and transport, and we get a whole 8-9 hours of weak sunlight during Dec-Jan.?
I'd say we need to bring the average temperature of earth up to about 70F, before the plentiful fossil fuels run out.
Something about the arctic being surrounded by land masses, vs the antarctic being surrounded by ocean. I think I read somewhere that the arctic is going to experience more extremes with the ice melting than the South Pole.
For the "what's going to happen" part, see Kim Stanley Robinson (Science in the Capital series).
Just flipped over to Drudge - lots of extremes getting blared:
Temps Plunge to Record as Cold Snap Freezes North, East States... CHILL MAP... Vermont sets 'all-time record for one snowstorm'... Iowa temps 'a solid 30 degrees below normal'... Power outage halts flights at Washington Reagan National Airport... Seoul buried in heaviest snowfall in 70 years... Peru's mountain people 'face extinction because of cold conditions'... Beijing -- coldest in 40 years... World copes with Arctic weather...
As a rule, a man's a fool! When it's hot, he wants it cool! When it's cool, he wants it hot! What it is, he wants it not!!
What do we do about 'climate change'? We adapt! For thousands of years, people have been living everywhere! The Arctic. The deserts. The swamps. The mountains. The valleys. The oceans. And everywhere in between!
It wasn't that long ago that Europe was covered with hundreds of feet of ice, and the Sahara was a sub-tropical jungle! So later, when the ice retreated and the Sahara dried up, most people moved north to populate Europe! I haven't heard that they tried to ship ice water to north Africa! But that is what people like Gore want us to do now!! They run around telling us that we must sweep the ocean off the shore!!
Even in America, people leave the temperate states to populate the cold of Alaska and Montana, the heat of Arizona and New Mexico, the swamps of Florida, and the jungles of New York and Los Angeles! They live where they want to live, and do what they want to do, without, at least for now, government interference! But they adapt. Corvettes and AC for Florida, but Jeeps and wood stoves for Alaska!
Effecting climate change by humans is like turning up the furnace and opening the windows on a winter day so that your kids will be more comfortable while they play outside! You may think that you are accomplishing something useful, but you are really not!! Just wasting a lot of money in the attempt!!
Happy New Year everyone and there are some great contributions in the forum which I have enjoyed.
First, the premise of this topic question assumes global warming exists. Many of us know that much of the data over the last ten years shows the earth to be cooling.
So the whole premise of this topic is flawed in my opinion.
Time Magazine in 1975 on the front cover of the Mag showed the coming ice age. There were five distinct panics in the 20th century regarding global cooling and warming.
What makes this different is the junk and fraudulent science involved.
What this is really about in my opinion is the luddite attack on technology along with the political manifestation of envy in the form of collectivism.
What we have been subjected to is a sales presentation to give up our liberty, property, and high standard of living to others who have not earned it.
A sales presentation to steel your property and liberty.
Human history has always involved the stuggle for resources and this is simply lip stick on a new pig.
The reality is that the market will make the air cleaner than it has ever been. Brilliant minds will create machines that will produce any air quality that we want.
There is no limit to what the human mind can achieve if left free to reach for the stars.
Note to bed bugs, moochers, looters, and luddites, please stop helping us.
First, the premise of this topic question assumes global warming exists
It's all Gagrice's fault, LOL. (See post #1)
Seems like the global warming concerns have been pushing new tech as much as trying to attack old tech. Not just the renewable energy stuff, but ideas like seeding the oceans or atmosphere to cool the earth down rapidly. That's not Neo-Luddism to me.
I bet the U.N. climatologists are going to have to work overtime to get this latest data "adjusted" such that it is the 4th or 5th warmest winter on record.
I have a good idea where climatologists who believe in GW store their thermoteters. But most are in it for the money and prestige, of the wealthy and politically powerful who are driving this scam through the mostly ignorant media and public.
I just read a news article that said the average large dog has a carbon footprint equal to TWO large SUVs. So the solution to the GW problem is simple, just take the old shotgun out and go looking for Fido. :surprise:
Seriously though, it makes you think how we have let the enviro-wackos demonize modern technology.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Workers at one charity shop in Swansea, in south Wales, described how the most vulnerable shoppers were seeking out thick books such as encyclopaedias for a few pence because they were cheaper than coal.
One assistant said: ‘Book burning seems terribly wrong but we have to get rid of unsold stock for pennies and some of the pensioners say the books make ideal slow-burning fuel for fires and stoves.
A lot of them buy up large hardback volumes so they can stick them in the fire to last all night.’
A 500g book can sell for as little as 5p, while a 20kg bag of coal costs £5.
Since January 2008, gas bills have risen 40 per cent and electricity prices 20 per cent, although people over 60 are entitled to a winter fuel allowance of between £125 and £400.
I hope the Global Warming Cultists are happy with what they have caused by forcing up the price of energy with all their ignorance. It could be part of their plan so people will be forced to watch the government controlled media. "Fahrenheit 451" anyone?
The Global Warming Cultists are happy with what they have caused by forcing up the price of energy! It's all part of their master plan!
1) Burn books to keep the 'poor' ignorant. 2) Make fossil fuels too expensive to burn. 3) Watch the elderly die off due to cold housing and having to walk everywhere. 4) Reduce the British population. 5) Lower fuel consumption and flatulence production. 6) Save the planet for the 'poor'! 7) Gain total control of the 'rich' and the 'poor' !
PS: Any professor who advocates population reduction should set an example by jumping off a cliff !!
Looks like Willard Scott agrees with Coleman. (link). Al Roker apparently doesn't as far as I can tell.
It's funny that Coleman's Weather Channel is now run by NBC and from what I've skimmed, the Weather Channel comes down on the side that global warming is happening.
It's also funny that Coleman apparently isn't (or doesn't want to be) certified by the American Meteorological Society, the outfit that certifies "real" weathermen. Their official position appears to support the anthropogenic global warming theory. (AMS).
1) I am not so certain that temperatures recorded over the years have been accurately done - who was measuring, how where the instruments calibrated, and what sort of instruments were used, vs. what is done today 2) Increased populations have created urban heat-islands and if these thermometers are locate din these areas they are affected.
So what I go by is my experience over 50 years: a) the weather is very similar to that I remember 40 - 45 years ago. No real difference. b) we had 1 or 2 days last year of weather where the temp. went above 90F. c) the beaches I used to go to in NJ are still almost identical to where they were 40 years ago. I haven't seen any rise in ocean levels. d) I see people suffering and dying from the cold and the snow-auto-accidents, and can't believe that this sort of cold Earth is beneficial to people. If we don't use fossil fuels this sort of cold would cause a mass migration of millions who would no longer be able to live in this climate.
If you don't want to see political and societal chaos on a vast and global scale, then you better hope that the Earth does warm. There may be some chaos if the Earth warms, but it will be much worse if it doesn't, and fossil fuels become very expensive or in short-supply.
The whole global warming scenario is a pantload. The only rational downside seems to be that the oceans "may" rise thus coastal regions would flood. It is no coincidence that the most strident "Warmers" are located on either coast. And of course the whole brouhaha assumes facts not in evidence, namely that there is warming and that humans are somehow responsible for some or all of it.
Generally, humans are, and always have been, better off when it's a little warmer. It really is as simple as that.
There's a big long laundry list of potential consequences over on Wikipedia, although rising oceans may be the biggie.
There's a bunch of other possibilities, like wasps in the Arctic (hey, a new market for EpiPens) and a rise in people coming down with kidney stones. (Weather Eye: unexpected consequences of global warming) (Times Online).
I won't say anything except kidney stones are strictly human caused via ignorance.
The famous geysers of Yellowstone Park, Wyoming, are slowing down; Old Faithful’s regular eruptions have shifted by an extra 16 minutes in eight years. The reason is that the geysers’ water supplies are dwindling as the climate turns drier.
Is it just possible the sucking dry of the countries aquifers to raise more corn for ethanol could be causing many of the problems?
I'm with Fairbanks on so called Global Warming. I will believe it when I see it. I think most of the folks on the fence facing record cold temps feel the same way.
Chilly politics: Gore ice sculpture back in Fairbanks
That's two guys in FBX. The city seems to have a slightly different official position.
"When our Fairbanks North Star Borough Assembly passed the Climate Change Impact resolution, it took a big step forward to determine what near-term and long-term adaptive measures would be as our community experiences changes in our forests, warming temperatures, melting permafrost,” said Luke Hopkins, Presiding Officer for the Fairbanks North Star Borough Assembly."
Fairbanks is an interesting study for AGW types. It may be one of the highest per capita GHG polluters in the USA. Last time I was there in the winter they still had parking lots full of idling vehicles. They get most of their electricity from coal. Most of the homes are heated with Oil, wood or coal. They still had not finished their natural gas pipeline project. The air quality in the winter is horrible. So they make a proposal to get on the AGW bandwagon in 2007. What have they done since that proposal? The only thing I can find is the University trying to get grants for environmental studies. I don't think you will find many people on the street in Fairbanks buying the idea that it is too warm.
This record -62 for Fairbanks last January probably helped jinx any real concerns about AGW for the populace.
Studies from both hemispheres indicate that 95% of the world's alpine glaciers, excluding Antarctica, are retreating. Glacier National Park in Montana is down to 26 named glaciers from 150 in 1850, and if this trend continues, the park is expected to be ice-free by 2020. Glaciers in the Himalayas are shrinking so rapidly that the summer flow of the major rivers (Indus, Ganges, Mekong, Yellow, Yangtze) they feed might eventually be affected.
Permafrost regions are thawing in high northern latitudes, causing buildings to sink and roads to crumble. Melting permafrost is the reason Arctic shorelines are retreating, forcing the relocation of Inupiat Eskimo villages along the shore.
The great ice sheets are all retreating. The Greenland ice sheet melting began to accelerate in the 1990s, and the margin of the entire ice mass is melting even in its northernmost reaches.The West Antarctic Ice Sheet has begun extensive melting, mostly since 2000. More recently, the first indication that the larger East Antarctic Ice Sheet was melting and contributing to the sea level rise was reported last month in Nature Geoscience. Sea level rising
The rate of rise in sea level has sped up over the past century. A tide gauge on a pier in Duck, N.C., says the sea level is rising at 1.5 feet a century. The Arctic Ocean's ice cover is shrinking and could disappear, endangering animals that depend on the ice for their survival.
One can argue for hours whether this year was warmer or colder than last. To us, it doesn't matter. We should be reading the earth, not thermometers. The earth is clearly warming, and sea level is clearly rising.
In order to convince a skeptical public that global change is real, scientists and funding agencies need to invest more in field measurements and monitoring rather than computer modeled predictions.
As for the skeptics, it's time to get off the atmospheric temperature kick and read the earth. We also believe the science clearly indicates that humans are playing a new, and critical role in driving that warming. But, lack of clarity in the exact degree that humans are causing global warming should not be used as an excuse to ignore the monumental changes that rising sea level and changing climate will bring to the planet, and our society.
Look at the price of diesel. I was there October 2008 and that was the price. Fairbanks has a refinery. Not sure why diesel is so expensive unless they are back hauling it in tanker ships with all the trucking involved from Valdez.
By the way, I just looked at my spread sheet. Our gas at the time was $1.75. So AK was getting dinged pretty bad.
A recent Rasmussen poll suggests that an alarming number of Americans believe scientists have falsified their data to sell global warming to the public. Add this to some embarrassing comments made in the e-mails stolen from the Climatic Research Unit at East Anglia University in England, and it has been a long, hot autumn for climate scientists.
SO how do we know for a fact that the glaciers are residing since 1850. Got any eye witness accounts from back then? Again it is extrapolation and speculation geared to push an agenda.
Haven't you heard? That data is suspect. Who knows whether it is true or not. It could be just something someone made up. Once a researcher gets branded a crook and a liar, his career is over !!
I agree with you on the History part, and believe the glaciers are receding. But how is that proof of MMGW, and not simply GW?
As I showed a link a month or 2 ago, history shows from eyewitnesses that glaciers in the Alps had rstarted receding in the 1860's! 1860's was when the climate change started there! That was well before man put much CO2 into the air, and well before the internal combustion engine.
Do you just ignore that fact because it doesn't fit with the story that proponents of MMGW want to push - that GW and glacier retreat has only started in the last few decades?
GW is affected much more by other factors than just the weak GHG - CO2. Methane is a much more potent GHG and the Earth releases a lot of methane naturally. Water vapor (clouds) also vary over time and affect temperatures. Solar output, and the ability of the Earth's atmosphere to stop radiation are very, very important. If you have an "ozone-hole" for instance, a lot more UV-radiation will reach ground-level. Coincidence that the main "ozone-hole" is in the Antarctic where there is some ice-breakup.
Anyway there are a lot of powerful natural forces that affect the climate far more than man's emissions. The Sun is the MAIN factor in our climate. It heats the Earth approx. 500F above what it would normally be, which would be near -450F without it. A small variance in it's output or in the Earth's clouds and you can see climate-change.
I wonder if they considered iced tea consumption while they were counting kidney stones in the South -- it's pretty popular down there, and a known causative agent. In other news, Arctic Ocean Getting Warm, Seals Vanish and Icebergs Melt
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So if the Seals really have vanished does that then mean it's due to the warmer ocean/ All of a sudden if the ocean is 0.01 degree warmer than the week before the seals can't tolerate that? are they inferring they died? Or is this similar to the appearance of the sea lions 10 years ago in SF (due to GW?) and now their disappearance (is that a sign GW has stopped?).
Do you see the problem here? Because I sneeze does that cause you to itch. Where's the proof of a connection? If you don't have proof ... i.e. science, then you have 2 events that may or may not be related. Science then gets relegated to things like - "well we threw someone in the volcano yesterday, and the rumbling has decreased, so I'm glad we were safe in doing so, rather than sorry".
And maybe a few climatologists should leave the warming Arctic, and watch the ice form down in LA. and FL. :P
Without politics and without the "if you don't tow the company line you don't get grant $$" bullcrap.
You don't really believe with government involved there will be totally honest science?
An example is the article from 1922 showing evidence that the Arctic sea ice had receded farther than ever before recorded. That article is in the NOAA archives. Yet when you see stories claiming the ice is receding now they only refer to the last time in the 1970s. Could it be that 1922 study did not fit their agenda? Did the 2009 Arctic Ice recede to the point it did in 1922?
There are too many cases of tainted GW data to trust any of it. We need to learn how to deal with reality while preparing for whatever the future hands US. That includes blocking the ignorance of the past like building cities below sea level like New Orleans.
No matter who sits in Congress and the WH, there will be an agenda. You have to play the game or you do not get a return engagement. Grants, Earmarks and Pork are all tied to someone's agenda. From the Snail Darter to studying the sex lives of college women.
Would not be the first time. We know the Arctic was tropical at some time in the past. Probably man caused from congregating in cities and knocking the planet off its axis. :shades:
“Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow,” is fine at Christmas. But in post-holiday Europe, bus engine oil is freezing in Norway. Ireland reports the lowest temperature in 50 years. In Britain, the Army got called out to tow drivers caught in snow drifts, amid possible government gas rationing and fireside chats by Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who is turning into the nation’s weather comforter-in-chief.
Satellite imagery shows the UK swathed entirely in snow, looking like a baby Greenland.
Europeans are adjusting to stymied access to work, closed schools, downed power lines, road diversions, salt shortages, canceled sports events, and life indoors – where media weather reports also include the plummeting mercury in the US, concern for the Indian River citrus crop in Florida, and passenger trains in China being dug out of snow drifts as cities like Beijing are recording unusual amounts of the white stuff.
The Eurostar from Paris to London, a two-hour commute for many, broke down in the tunnel under the English Channel. Again. The problem: Snow gets sucked into the engine, shorting out the electrical systems.
They are working on it. British government minister Chris Bryant, caught in the offending train, twittered in exasperation: "I am rapidly developing a very severe hatred of Eurostar as we are traveling at about a mile a year."
The sustained sub-zero temperatures have perhaps hit homeless persons and migrant workers in transit the worst. Thousands of trucks have been stranded by the side of the road, one main source of transportation for movement among migrants. There’s a lot of “huddling” going on in migrant centers, according to news reports. The Irish Times describes deaths of homeless in Poland, Britain, Germany, along with 22 persons that perished after avalanche in the Swiss Alps.
Australia, Africa and New Zealand are having below normal summer temps. So just what part of the globe is warming? Or maybe as many legitimate scientists have said MM CO2 has little to do with Climate Change. Climate change is a natural phenomenon, that man is subject to, not the other way around. With all the problems this World faces, worrying about the global temperature 90 years from now, seems really silly. Wasting our hard earned tax dollars on it is criminal.
You are assuming the people running the Quebec government have a brain. From the very article it should be clear they DO NOT have a brain. They just fall in line behind Calyfornia headed over the cliff. It is the *Lemming syndrome.
*A psychological quasi-condition in which the afflicted person becomes subject to the whims of a portion of popular culture, and bends his/her entire persona to conform to the norms dictated by the media moguls in charge of said trend.
The whole AGW cult could easily be included in the above malady.
"Australia, Africa and New Zealand are having below normal summer temps. So just what part of the globe is warming? "
You should go to the link below. Part way down is a map of temperature anomalies. Are there more red dots or more blue dots as you go from month to month?
Your statement about Australia having below summer temps does not hold up. It depends on where in Australia you go - See the NASA link for an example of weather. I also found the last sentence interesting: "At RAAF Edinburgh [a regional airport], the temperature rose to 41.7°C at 3:04 a.m. Such an event appears to be without known precedent in southern Australia. "
Records are interesting but it is the long term changes that we need to be focusing on. I would even suggest that it is not the warming that is the fundamental issue...it is the change that will bring problems.
Well I certainly do not have to look overseas to find cold weather. We have had over a foot of snow on the ground since before Christmas. That is not too bad but it just continues to snow. We have had at least some snow practically every day during that period.
The temp this morning was -11. We have not been anywhere near 32 degrees and the usual highs have been around 9 or 10 degrees with the lows around 0 since Christmas. This is virtually unheard of here in KC.
We are finally supposed to thaw out some this next week with highs in the 30's. We had a break on Friday where it got up to around 10 degrees, sunny, with no wind and it actually felt pleasant outside because many of these 0 temps have been accompanied by 30/40 mph winds.
Our crazy dog just loves this weather and cries to go out about every 30 minutes. Half poodle and half Yorkie, very thin fur but she seems oblivious to the cold and has no patience or sympathy with me !!
It is amazing what we can get used to in such a short time.
Taking a page form the playbook of the 3rd World countries in Copenhagen - I think the U.S. should sue Canada for exporting their cold arctic air to us. They should pay for our heating bills, road-cleanup, damaged crops, and the many people who die from the cold air they allow to cross their border.
If anyone should want GW I would think it would be the Canadians. Probably like me, most people could be offered free land to live on in Canada, and wouldn't take it (unless there were fossil fuels below) because it is generally too cold, and too cold in most places for human communities to farm and ranch.
Sidenote: If you want to read about how the U.S. and global economies got screwed up by our leaders over the last 20 years - from Clinton and Bush thru Obama, and Greenspan to Bernanke and Geitner - I got this new book from the library - Meltdown by Thomas E. Woods Jr. There's also some mention of the auto bailouts in there, as examples of the U.S. government screwing up the free-market system. Summary - government caused the problems, government chastises members of the private enterprise system for doing as legislated, and government then authorizes itself more powers and involvement, with many of the same players instituting the same economic philosophy that caused the problems!
Isn't our government giving banks and people (and auto companies) rules to get in financial trouble, and then bailing them out, and giving them incentives (bailouts, renegotiated loans, tax credits) to keep going down that same path? :mad:
That's just "weather". When the climatologists analyze all the weather this year, it'll be one of the hottest years on record! :confuse:
I'm looking forward to June-August this year, because last year we mostly missed Summer here in the Northeast. We may have had a few days where the temperature broke 90F for an hour or so. Most people who have pools that I work with never really got to use them. I'm happy I have a hot tub, and I can at least go in that. If I go to the beach it's usually just for the social-scene, as the ocean around here really hasn't warmed either - maybe a max. of 64F in Aug., which turns my feet pink in about 15 minutes.
Remember when the government decides it's time to start taxing you or you suppliers-of-energy for either CO2 emissions or for the equipment to capture CO2, that a warming Earth sure seems better than what it is now.
No disagreement there. It is man's ability to adapt to change that decides whether he lives or dies. If someone sits in their hut on the beach until they drown from rising water or violent weather, why should I fret? To me the solution is simple. Adapt or die. Even the most vocal AGW proponents say there is nothing we can do to change the course already set for at least the next 100 years. Why waste the money then?
LOL. Yes, after all the formulas are applied and the numbers are "corrected" this winter will look like a walk in the park. And we all should know by now that the weather is immaterial and has nothing at all to do with the climate.
I will keep telling myself that I am not really cold...Shoot, I will just ignore that $280. heating bill that I just got. Maybe Obama will pay it for me.
he is. or more precisely the taxpayers are: think about all those home weatherization "investments". I was telling someone else that short of sleeping with my neighbors' wives, I am practically raising their families: I pay for their foods, I pay for their education, their cars, their mortgages, heating oil subsidies, etc., and I am about to pay for their hospital bills.
but I got nothing out of my "investments",
As to global warming, I am actually totally ok with large gas taxes. jacking it up to like $10 or $20 a gallon will make driving a lot more enjoyable.
"the numbers are "corrected" this winter will look like a walk in the park."
I like that one.
whenever you tell the warmers that you think the weather is getting colder, they tell you that other places are warmer.
and when you tell them that the weather is getting hotter, they tell you that's confirmation of global warming: this own "other places are colder" logic doesn't apply.
Your insulting people doesn't really add much to the conversation...does it. Man is influencing the climate. The important question is how (CO2, land use, ????) and how much (10%, 25%, 50%, ????).
The link below is just one example of hundreds on the Internet that show we are still wrestling with the details.
Since when has the climate NOT been changing ! Why do you think making Al Gore richer is going to put a stop to something that has been happening for billions of years ? Why waste badly needed tax revenues on "the sky is falling" issues ?
"As I showed a link a month or 2 ago, history shows from eyewitnesses that glaciers in the Alps had rstarted receding in the 1860's! 1860's was when the climate change started there! That was well before man put much CO2 into the air, and well before the internal combustion engine. "
If you go to the link below (page E26) you will see that things are a bit more complicated when it comes to the history of the Alps. Looking at one group of glaciers does not necessarily prove or disprove your point. Even looking at all the glacial records over the last few centuries will only give us additional data and some additional insight into what is going on.
This link below is interesting because it shows that people where using wood for energy long before the oil age. What it does not show is how much CO2 was released by land use changes (agriculture, cutting down trees, domestication of animals, almost wiping out the Bison and so on). http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/eh/intro.html
absolutely agree with you on that. I would also add cows and pets, anything that emits methane (farting), has an influence on the climate.
but that doesn't mean we should plug up our collective rear ends to "uninfluence" the climate, right?
"The important question is how (CO2, land use, ????) and how much (10%, 25%, 50%, ????). "
sensible questions. I think everyone here is objecting to is a rush a judgement and worse, a rush to action. If we don't know how an to what extent we are influencing the climate and if such impact is desirable or not, why should we contemplate costly actions?
that's like a doctor starting to operate on your illness without knowing what illness you are having.
But most warmers don't seem to be rationale enough to understand that. and that's very frustrating to the rest of us.
True. The problem is people build permanent structures in areas that will see change...change that will destroy those structures.
The people in Devils Lake, ND did not anticipate or understand climate change when they built on the bottom of a lake during the dry cycle. So far over $500 million dollars of badly needed tax revenue has been spent on mitigating the impacts.
Comments
What do you think will happen to our modern society in these areas if we don't use coal, oil, and natural gas for heating and transport, and we get a whole 8-9 hours of weak sunlight during Dec-Jan.?
I'd say we need to bring the average temperature of earth up to about 70F, before the plentiful fossil fuels run out.
For the "what's going to happen" part, see Kim Stanley Robinson (Science in the Capital series).
Just flipped over to Drudge - lots of extremes getting blared:
Temps Plunge to Record as Cold Snap Freezes North, East States...
CHILL MAP...
Vermont sets 'all-time record for one snowstorm'...
Iowa temps 'a solid 30 degrees below normal'...
Power outage halts flights at Washington Reagan National Airport...
Seoul buried in heaviest snowfall in 70 years...
Peru's mountain people 'face extinction because of cold conditions'...
Beijing -- coldest in 40 years...
World copes with Arctic weather...
Figures don't lie....but liars figure !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
As a rule,
a man's a fool!
When it's hot,
he wants it cool!
When it's cool,
he wants it hot!
What it is,
he wants it not!!
What do we do about 'climate change'? We adapt! For thousands of years, people have been living everywhere! The Arctic. The deserts. The swamps. The mountains. The valleys. The oceans. And everywhere in between!
It wasn't that long ago that Europe was covered with hundreds of feet of ice, and the Sahara was a sub-tropical jungle! So later, when the ice retreated and the Sahara dried up, most people moved north to populate Europe! I haven't heard that they tried to ship ice water to north Africa! But that is what people like Gore want us to do now!! They run around telling us that we must sweep the ocean off the shore!!
Even in America, people leave the temperate states to populate the cold of Alaska and Montana, the heat of Arizona and New Mexico, the swamps of Florida, and the jungles of New York and Los Angeles! They live where they want to live, and do what they want to do, without, at least for now, government interference! But they adapt. Corvettes and AC for Florida, but Jeeps and wood stoves for Alaska!
Effecting climate change by humans is like turning up the furnace and opening the windows on a winter day so that your kids will be more comfortable while they play outside! You may think that you are accomplishing something useful, but you are really not!! Just wasting a lot of money in the attempt!!
.
First, the premise of this topic question assumes global warming exists. Many of us know that much of the data over the last ten years shows the earth to be cooling.
So the whole premise of this topic is flawed in my opinion.
Time Magazine in 1975 on the front cover of the Mag showed the coming ice age. There were five distinct panics in the 20th century regarding global cooling and warming.
What makes this different is the junk and fraudulent science involved.
What this is really about in my opinion is the luddite attack on technology along with the political manifestation of envy in the form of collectivism.
What we have been subjected to is a sales presentation to give up our liberty, property, and high standard of living to others who have not earned it.
A sales presentation to steel your property and liberty.
Human history has always involved the stuggle for resources and this is simply lip stick on a new pig.
The reality is that the market will make the air cleaner than it has ever been. Brilliant minds will create machines that will produce any air quality that we want.
There is no limit to what the human mind can achieve if left free to reach for the stars.
Note to bed bugs, moochers, looters, and luddites, please stop helping us.
It's all Gagrice's fault, LOL. (See post #1)
Seems like the global warming concerns have been pushing new tech as much as trying to attack old tech. Not just the renewable energy stuff, but ideas like seeding the oceans or atmosphere to cool the earth down rapidly. That's not Neo-Luddism to me.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/weather/01/05/cold.weather/index.html
I have a good idea where climatologists who believe in GW store their thermoteters. But most are in it for the money and prestige, of the wealthy and politically powerful who are driving this scam through the mostly ignorant media and public.
Seriously though, it makes you think how we have let the enviro-wackos demonize modern technology.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Workers at one charity shop in Swansea, in south Wales, described how the most vulnerable shoppers were seeking out thick books such as encyclopaedias for a few pence because they were cheaper than coal.
One assistant said: ‘Book burning seems terribly wrong but we have to get rid of unsold stock for pennies and some of the pensioners say the books make ideal slow-burning fuel for fires and stoves.
A lot of them buy up large hardback volumes so they can stick them in the fire to last all night.’
A 500g book can sell for as little as 5p, while a 20kg bag of coal costs £5.
Since January 2008, gas bills have risen 40 per cent and electricity prices 20 per cent, although people over 60 are entitled to a winter fuel allowance of between £125 and £400.
I hope the Global Warming Cultists are happy with what they have caused by forcing up the price of energy with all their ignorance. It could be part of their plan so people will be forced to watch the government controlled media. "Fahrenheit 451" anyone?
The Global Warming Cultists are happy with what they have caused by forcing up the price of energy! It's all part of their master plan!
1) Burn books to keep the 'poor' ignorant.
2) Make fossil fuels too expensive to burn.
3) Watch the elderly die off due to cold housing and having to walk everywhere.
4) Reduce the British population.
5) Lower fuel consumption and flatulence production.
6) Save the planet for the 'poor'!
7) Gain total control of the 'rich' and the 'poor' !
PS: Any professor who advocates population reduction should set an example by jumping off a cliff !!
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It's funny that Coleman's Weather Channel is now run by NBC and from what I've skimmed, the Weather Channel comes down on the side that global warming is happening.
It's also funny that Coleman apparently isn't (or doesn't want to be) certified by the American Meteorological Society, the outfit that certifies "real" weathermen. Their official position appears to support the anthropogenic global warming theory. (AMS).
1) I am not so certain that temperatures recorded over the years have been accurately done - who was measuring, how where the instruments calibrated, and what sort of instruments were used, vs. what is done today
2) Increased populations have created urban heat-islands and if these thermometers are locate din these areas they are affected.
So what I go by is my experience over 50 years:
a) the weather is very similar to that I remember 40 - 45 years ago. No real difference.
b) we had 1 or 2 days last year of weather where the temp. went above 90F.
c) the beaches I used to go to in NJ are still almost identical to where they were 40 years ago. I haven't seen any rise in ocean levels.
d) I see people suffering and dying from the cold and the snow-auto-accidents, and can't believe that this sort of cold Earth is beneficial to people. If we don't use fossil fuels this sort of cold would cause a mass migration of millions who would no longer be able to live in this climate.
If you don't want to see political and societal chaos on a vast and global scale, then you better hope that the Earth does warm. There may be some chaos if the Earth warms, but it will be much worse if it doesn't, and fossil fuels become very expensive or in short-supply.
Generally, humans are, and always have been, better off when it's a little warmer. It really is as simple as that.
Regards, DQ
There's a bunch of other possibilities, like wasps in the Arctic (hey, a new market for EpiPens) and a rise in people coming down with kidney stones. (Weather Eye: unexpected consequences of global warming) (Times Online).
The famous geysers of Yellowstone Park, Wyoming, are slowing down; Old Faithful’s regular eruptions have shifted by an extra 16 minutes in eight years. The reason is that the geysers’ water supplies are dwindling as the climate turns drier.
Is it just possible the sucking dry of the countries aquifers to raise more corn for ethanol could be causing many of the problems?
I'm with Fairbanks on so called Global Warming. I will believe it when I see it. I think most of the folks on the fence facing record cold temps feel the same way.
Chilly politics: Gore ice sculpture back in Fairbanks
"When our Fairbanks North Star Borough Assembly passed the Climate Change Impact resolution, it took a big step forward to determine what near-term and long-term adaptive measures would be as our community experiences changes in our forests, warming temperatures, melting permafrost,” said Luke Hopkins, Presiding Officer for the Fairbanks North Star Borough Assembly."
Fairbanks Joins Nationwide Effort to Limit Global Warming, Prepare for Impacts (icleiusa.org)
Pretty good likeness.
This record -62 for Fairbanks last January probably helped jinx any real concerns about AGW for the populace.
The Planet does not lie.
Clear evidence
Studies from both hemispheres indicate that 95% of the world's alpine glaciers, excluding Antarctica, are retreating. Glacier National Park in Montana is down to 26 named glaciers from 150 in 1850, and if this trend continues, the park is expected to be ice-free by 2020. Glaciers in the Himalayas are shrinking so rapidly that the summer flow of the major rivers (Indus, Ganges, Mekong, Yellow, Yangtze) they feed might eventually be affected.
Permafrost regions are thawing in high northern latitudes, causing buildings to sink and roads to crumble. Melting permafrost is the reason Arctic shorelines are retreating, forcing the relocation of Inupiat Eskimo villages along the shore.
The great ice sheets are all retreating. The Greenland ice sheet melting began to accelerate in the 1990s, and the margin of the entire ice mass is melting even in its northernmost reaches.The West Antarctic Ice Sheet has begun extensive melting, mostly since 2000. More recently, the first indication that the larger East Antarctic Ice Sheet was melting and contributing to the sea level rise was reported last month in Nature Geoscience.
Sea level rising
The rate of rise in sea level has sped up over the past century. A tide gauge on a pier in Duck, N.C., says the sea level is rising at 1.5 feet a century. The Arctic Ocean's ice cover is shrinking and could disappear, endangering animals that depend on the ice for their survival.
One can argue for hours whether this year was warmer or colder than last. To us, it doesn't matter. We should be reading the earth, not thermometers. The earth is clearly warming, and sea level is clearly rising.
In order to convince a skeptical public that global change is real, scientists and funding agencies need to invest more in field measurements and monitoring rather than computer modeled predictions.
As for the skeptics, it's time to get off the atmospheric temperature kick and read the earth. We also believe the science clearly indicates that humans are playing a new, and critical role in driving that warming. But, lack of clarity in the exact degree that humans are causing global warming should not be used as an excuse to ignore the monumental changes that rising sea level and changing climate will bring to the planet, and our society.
By the way, I just looked at my spread sheet. Our gas at the time was $1.75. So AK was getting dinged pretty bad.
SO how do we know for a fact that the glaciers are residing since 1850. Got any eye witness accounts from back then? Again it is extrapolation and speculation geared to push an agenda.
Um, it's called History. We know how many there were in 1850, and how many there are now. That part is called Math.
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As I showed a link a month or 2 ago, history shows from eyewitnesses that glaciers in the Alps had rstarted receding in the 1860's! 1860's was when the climate change started there! That was well before man put much CO2 into the air, and well before the internal combustion engine.
Do you just ignore that fact because it doesn't fit with the story that proponents of MMGW want to push - that GW and glacier retreat has only started in the last few decades?
GW is affected much more by other factors than just the weak GHG - CO2. Methane is a much more potent GHG and the Earth releases a lot of methane naturally. Water vapor (clouds) also vary over time and affect temperatures. Solar output, and the ability of the Earth's atmosphere to stop radiation are very, very important. If you have an "ozone-hole" for instance, a lot more UV-radiation will reach ground-level. Coincidence that the main "ozone-hole" is in the Antarctic where there is some ice-breakup.
Anyway there are a lot of powerful natural forces that affect the climate far more than man's emissions. The Sun is the MAIN factor in our climate. It heats the Earth approx. 500F above what it would normally be, which would be near -450F without it. A small variance in it's output or in the Earth's clouds and you can see climate-change.
I never said it was MMGW. It's warming, and we need to understand if man's activities are affecting the global climate more than usual.
That's why the GW study should continue.
Without politics and without the "if you don't tow the company line you don't get grant $$" bullcrap.
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And don't give me something else to worry about, lol - I drink almost a half gallon of that stuff every day.
Do you see the problem here? Because I sneeze does that cause you to itch. Where's the proof of a connection? If you don't have proof ... i.e. science, then you have 2 events that may or may not be related. Science then gets relegated to things like - "well we threw someone in the volcano yesterday, and the rumbling has decreased, so I'm glad we were safe in doing so, rather than sorry".
And maybe a few climatologists should leave the warming Arctic, and watch the ice form down in LA. and FL. :P
You don't really believe with government involved there will be totally honest science?
An example is the article from 1922 showing evidence that the Arctic sea ice had receded farther than ever before recorded. That article is in the NOAA archives. Yet when you see stories claiming the ice is receding now they only refer to the last time in the 1970s. Could it be that 1922 study did not fit their agenda? Did the 2009 Arctic Ice recede to the point it did in 1922?
There are too many cases of tainted GW data to trust any of it. We need to learn how to deal with reality while preparing for whatever the future hands US. That includes blocking the ignorance of the past like building cities below sea level like New Orleans.
No matter who sits in Congress and the WH, there will be an agenda. You have to play the game or you do not get a return engagement. Grants, Earmarks and Pork are all tied to someone's agenda. From the Snail Darter to studying the sex lives of college women.
Good idea....maybe the "poles" have shifted !!
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Would not be the first time. We know the Arctic was tropical at some time in the past. Probably man caused from congregating in cities and knocking the planet off its axis. :shades:
“Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow,” is fine at Christmas. But in post-holiday Europe, bus engine oil is freezing in Norway. Ireland reports the lowest temperature in 50 years. In Britain, the Army got called out to tow drivers caught in snow drifts, amid possible government gas rationing and fireside chats by Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who is turning into the nation’s weather comforter-in-chief.
Satellite imagery shows the UK swathed entirely in snow, looking like a baby Greenland.
Europeans are adjusting to stymied access to work, closed schools, downed power lines, road diversions, salt shortages, canceled sports events, and life indoors – where media weather reports also include the plummeting mercury in the US, concern for the Indian River citrus crop in Florida, and passenger trains in China being dug out of snow drifts as cities like Beijing are recording unusual amounts of the white stuff.
The Eurostar from Paris to London, a two-hour commute for many, broke down in the tunnel under the English Channel. Again. The problem: Snow gets sucked into the engine, shorting out the electrical systems.
They are working on it. British government minister Chris Bryant, caught in the offending train, twittered in exasperation: "I am rapidly developing a very severe hatred of Eurostar as we are traveling at about a mile a year."
The sustained sub-zero temperatures have perhaps hit homeless persons and migrant workers in transit the worst. Thousands of trucks have been stranded by the side of the road, one main source of transportation for movement among migrants. There’s a lot of “huddling” going on in migrant centers, according to news reports. The Irish Times describes deaths of homeless in Poland, Britain, Germany, along with 22 persons that perished after avalanche in the Swiss Alps.
Australia, Africa and New Zealand are having below normal summer temps. So just what part of the globe is warming? Or maybe as many legitimate scientists have said MM CO2 has little to do with Climate Change. Climate change is a natural phenomenon, that man is subject to, not the other way around. With all the problems this World faces, worrying about the global temperature 90 years from now, seems really silly. Wasting our hard earned tax dollars on it is criminal.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/01/quebec-20100101.html
It is interesting how governments continue to set CO2 standards despite a lack of a world wide agreement.
*A psychological quasi-condition in which the afflicted person becomes subject to the whims of a portion of popular culture, and bends his/her entire persona to conform to the norms dictated by the media moguls in charge of said trend.
The whole AGW cult could easily be included in the above malady.
You should go to the link below. Part way down is a map of temperature anomalies. Are there more red dots or more blue dots as you go from month to month?
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/?report=global&year=2009&month=13&submitted=Get+Re- port
Your statement about Australia having below summer temps does not hold up. It depends on where in Australia you go - See the NASA link for an example of weather. I also found the last sentence interesting: "At RAAF Edinburgh [a regional airport], the temperature rose to 41.7°C at 3:04 a.m. Such an event appears to be without known precedent in southern Australia. "
http://www.embraceaustralia.com/global-warming-gets-australians-hot-under-the-co- llar-5813.htm
http://modis.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/individual.php?db_date=2009-02-11
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/climate-change/science.aspx
Records are interesting but it is the long term changes that we need to be focusing on. I would even suggest that it is not the warming that is the fundamental issue...it is the change that will bring problems.
The temp this morning was -11. We have not been anywhere near 32 degrees and the usual highs have been around 9 or 10 degrees with the lows around 0 since Christmas. This is virtually unheard of here in KC.
We are finally supposed to thaw out some this next week with highs in the 30's. We had a break on Friday where it got up to around 10 degrees, sunny, with no wind and it actually felt pleasant outside because many of these 0 temps have been accompanied by 30/40 mph winds.
Our crazy dog just loves this weather and cries to go out about every 30 minutes. Half poodle and half Yorkie, very thin fur but she seems oblivious to the cold and has no patience or sympathy with me !!
It is amazing what we can get used to in such a short time.
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If anyone should want GW I would think it would be the Canadians. Probably like me, most people could be offered free land to live on in Canada, and wouldn't take it (unless there were fossil fuels below) because it is generally too cold, and too cold in most places for human communities to farm and ranch.
Sidenote: If you want to read about how the U.S. and global economies got screwed up by our leaders over the last 20 years - from Clinton and Bush thru Obama, and Greenspan to Bernanke and Geitner - I got this new book from the library - Meltdown by Thomas E. Woods Jr. There's also some mention of the auto bailouts in there, as examples of the U.S. government screwing up the free-market system. Summary - government caused the problems, government chastises members of the private enterprise system for doing as legislated, and government then authorizes itself more powers and involvement, with many of the same players instituting the same economic philosophy that caused the problems!
Isn't our government giving banks and people (and auto companies) rules to get in financial trouble, and then bailing them out, and giving them incentives (bailouts, renegotiated loans, tax credits) to keep going down that same path? :mad:
We should go to the U.N. and demand reparations immediately. Actually we should not even have to ask, the O Peckers should just voluntarily pay us !
I demand my rights !!
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I'm looking forward to June-August this year, because last year we mostly missed Summer here in the Northeast. We may have had a few days where the temperature broke 90F for an hour or so. Most people who have pools that I work with never really got to use them. I'm happy I have a hot tub, and I can at least go in that. If I go to the beach it's usually just for the social-scene, as the ocean around here really hasn't warmed either - maybe a max. of 64F in Aug., which turns my feet pink in about 15 minutes.
Remember when the government decides it's time to start taxing you or you suppliers-of-energy for either CO2 emissions or for the equipment to capture CO2, that a warming Earth sure seems better than what it is now.
No disagreement there. It is man's ability to adapt to change that decides whether he lives or dies. If someone sits in their hut on the beach until they drown from rising water or violent weather, why should I fret? To me the solution is simple. Adapt or die. Even the most vocal AGW proponents say there is nothing we can do to change the course already set for at least the next 100 years. Why waste the money then?
I will keep telling myself that I am not really cold...Shoot, I will just ignore that $280. heating bill that I just got. Maybe Obama will pay it for me.
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he is. or more precisely the taxpayers are: think about all those home weatherization "investments". I was telling someone else that short of sleeping with my neighbors' wives, I am practically raising their families: I pay for their foods, I pay for their education, their cars, their mortgages, heating oil subsidies, etc., and I am about to pay for their hospital bills.
but I got nothing out of my "investments",
As to global warming, I am actually totally ok with large gas taxes. jacking it up to like $10 or $20 a gallon will make driving a lot more enjoyable.
I like that one.
whenever you tell the warmers that you think the weather is getting colder, they tell you that other places are warmer.
and when you tell them that the weather is getting hotter, they tell you that's confirmation of global warming: this own "other places are colder" logic doesn't apply.
global warming is a scheme to get Gore richer.
The link below is just one example of hundreds on the Internet that show we are still wrestling with the details.
Study Finds Warmer Climate Could Stifle Carbon Uptake by Trees
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/01/hu-20100109.html#more
The Quebec legislation has the side benefit of increasing the fuel efficiency of vehicles - not a bad thing.
Oh puuulease !!
Since when has the climate NOT been changing ! Why do you think making Al Gore richer is going to put a stop to something that has been happening for billions of years ? Why waste badly needed tax revenues on "the sky is falling" issues ?
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If you go to the link below (page E26) you will see that things are a bit more complicated when it comes to the history of the Alps. Looking at one group of glaciers does not necessarily prove or disprove your point. Even looking at all the glacial records over the last few centuries will only give us additional data and some additional insight into what is going on.
The History of Glacier Variations in the French Alps
http://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/p1386e/alps.pdf
This link below is interesting because it shows that people where using wood for energy long before the oil age. What it does not show is how much CO2 was released by land use changes (agriculture, cutting down trees, domestication of animals, almost wiping out the Bison and so on).
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/eh/intro.html
absolutely agree with you on that. I would also add cows and pets, anything that emits methane (farting), has an influence on the climate.
but that doesn't mean we should plug up our collective rear ends to "uninfluence" the climate, right?
"The important question is how (CO2, land use, ????) and how much (10%, 25%, 50%, ????). "
sensible questions. I think everyone here is objecting to is a rush a judgement and worse, a rush to action. If we don't know how an to what extent we are influencing the climate and if such impact is desirable or not, why should we contemplate costly actions?
that's like a doctor starting to operate on your illness without knowing what illness you are having.
But most warmers don't seem to be rationale enough to understand that. and that's very frustrating to the rest of us.
True. The problem is people build permanent structures in areas that will see change...change that will destroy those structures.
The people in Devils Lake, ND did not anticipate or understand climate change when they built on the bottom of a lake during the dry cycle. So far over $500 million dollars of badly needed tax revenue has been spent on mitigating the impacts.