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Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

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  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    I'd call it a 200% error by the climate scientists.

    It is 33 when they thought it was 100.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    CFL Hazards = Conservative Agenda.

    Most of these stories are on mega-Conservative blogs or news sites.

    Gasoline causes cancer too, as does diesel, plastic, SUNLIGHT, cell phones, burnt hamburgers, X-rays, talcum powder, dust, deli meat, nickels.............

    The list goes on.

    If we try to eliminate everything we use that "causes" cancer, we'd have to all be living in a non-plastic bubble somewhere off Earf.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited April 2011
    CFL Hazards = Conservative Agenda.

    The link I sent was from German medical tests. Why should health issues be either conservative or Liberal. Mainly it was a warning to not sit close to a CFL bulb. The article was clear about the advantages and energy savings. I believe enough in the energy savings to have 56 CFL bulbs in my home. I just don't blindly follow the green agenda. And especially the ones mandated by a worthless Congress. We know they screwed US all on ethanol & wind generation. The jury is still out on CFL bulbs.

    PS
    Just read about the hazards with Talc powder.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "Why should health issues be either conservative or Liberal.?"

    EXACTLY. Why, Conservatives, do you make it into one?

    Gary says, "I just don't blindly follow the green agenda."

    Not many "TRULY thinking" people follow ANY agenda, blindly.

    Wind generation is a REAL contributor to the power grid, and will be growing every year. Get used to it now.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Wind generation is a REAL contributor to the power grid, and will be growing every year. Get used to it now.

    One day you will come to the realization that anything that has to be subsidized to stay in business is a NEGATIVE for the tax payers of this country. And Wind generation without subsidies would be DEAD in the Wind. If you think paying $2+ per gallon subsidy for Corn ethanol is a good deal, you would probably consider the enormous subsidies for Wind Generation a good deal. We did it and lost in 1980 so history is repeating itself.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Wind doesn't need subsidies to "stay in business."

    Maybe to GET STARTED.

    But once going, they pay for themselves and stop taking tax money.

    Once the oil companies stop taking subsidies, talk to me about them again.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    image
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Already works.

    Prius. Volt. Leaf. Solar Panels. Wind. Geothermal. Clean Diesel (ULSD).

    Already works. No wishing well required.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Prius. Volt. Leaf. Solar Panels. Wind.

    All causing environmental damage in the countries they are manufactured in. It may be ok, if we could confine the pollution to China and India. Just does not work that way. I don't think they will end up being a positive when all the environmental costs are added up. You may think the energy policy is working. That feeling is not shared by most of your fellow Americans.

    Energy policy running on empty

    With the pump price north of $4 in Chicago and five bucks not out of the realm of probability, Obama is casting about for someone to blame. His first response was to order a Justice Department investigation into whether speculators and traders are engaging in dark plots to pick the driver’s pocket. Next, the president chose a typical target for Democrats in times of gas distress: the oil companies. They’re getting tax breaks at a time rising prices will ensure good profits, he noted.

    None of this has anything to do with gas station grief. The drivers, no pun intended, of prices are rising demand around the globe, the weakening dollar, worry about the reliability of supplies because of Mideast turmoil, the administration’s clamp on new drilling and its lack of a rational energy policy.


    http://www.suntimes.com/news/huntley/5012431-417/energy-policy-running-on-empty.- html
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "All causing environmental damage in the countries they are manufactured in."

    Not a valid argument until oil and coal stop polluting the environments THEY are harvested and used in.

    BTW - Solar panels are mfg in the USA too. And more are coming.

    http://solarknowledge.blogspot.com/2011/04/600m-solar-panel-manufacturing-plant-- to.html
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Just like the last solar panel factory back East. Never made a panel after getting $millions of our tax dollars. Moved mfg to China. Not a good option. GE will do the same. They are con artists on top of the heap of corporate welfare recipients.

    The plant would begin production by 2013. GE said it will decide on a site for the factory in the next 90 to 100 days.


    Let me know when they start production. You buy into all the lies we are told.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    So you are not saying, I hope, that there are NO solar panel manufacturing plants operating in the USA, are you?

    Because a short Google search found at least 2 companies doing this on American soil.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    All I could find was Suntech with made in USA MODULES. That is not manufacturing Solar Cells. They just assemble the cells into modules. Maybe you found some company that is currently manufacturing solar cells in the USA. Plus the materials are not refined or mined here either. Those are the processes that are polluting the planet. We just do not allow it on our soil. Gives US a feeling of superiority I guess.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    These two are mfg solar panels on U.S. soil:

    www.solarworld-usa.com/

    www.silikenusa.com/Solar-Panel-Modules.aspx

    But here's why China is the leader. Nothing AT ALL to do with "it's too dirty to do it here" at ALL. They have a goal of being the world leader.

    Ultimately, it will be difficult for the United States to compete with China, mainly because of how aggressively the Chinese government supports domestic solar manufacturing, Mr. Hall said. “They want to be the center of the solar manufacturing world,” he said. “It’s a question of how much do we want to compete – and can we compete – long-term with manufacturing in China, or do we do what we always do in the U.S. and add value as an innovator?”

    Plenty of others disagree. Several thin-film solar start-ups, such as PrimeStar Solar, Applied Quantum Technology and SoloPower, are planning new factories now in the hope of catching a market upturn they expect in the next couple of years.

    “We don’t want to miss the market window,” said Alain Harrus, a partner with Crosslink Capital, an investor in SoloPower.

    Companies like Schott Solar, Sharp Solar and SolarWorld already make panels in the United States.


    AND:

    Where are photovoltaic solar cells made?
    Over 90% of worldwide photovoltaic (PV) solar panel production occurs outside the United States. In 2007, Japan was the world’s largest PV solar cell producer, manufacturing nearly 1 gigawatt (1,000 megawatts, MW) each year. China was the second largest PV producer, followed by Germany, Taiwan, and the U.S., in fifth place producing 266 MW, nearly one-quarter the amount produced by Japan and less than 10% of the world’s production.
    Why is the U.S. so far behind in solar PV manufacturing?
    Generally other countries have done far more to create domestic demand for solar cells, and they offer much greater incentives for solar manufacturing than available in the US.
    Germany and Japan, for example, have had feed-in-tariffs in place for years. These programs create demand for solar cells by guaranteeing long-term favorable price contracts for solar energy provided to utilities, in place for years. Furthermore, many nations also offer generous incentives to locate solar manufacturing in-country, examples are below:
    - Philippines – Board of Investment (BOI) order 226 offers income tax holidays and other incentives for “preferred areas of economic activity” specified by BOI in Investment Priorities Plan (IPP). Renewable energy production is included in the list – BOI-registered enterprises are eligible for tax holidays of 6 yrs if they are new projects with a pioneer status.
    o Sunpower – $320 million investment, maximum output of 150 MW. $200
    million loan guarantee, 6-year tax holiday.
    - Malaysia – Government provides a 15-year income tax holiday as incentive to locate solar facilities.
    o First Solar – Total investment of $150 million for 150 MW production.
    - Germany – Incentives to invest in the former East Germany include incentives up to 30% of investment for large enterprises (40-50% for smaller enterprises), along with an additional Investment Allowance that takes the form of a tax-free cash payment or tax credit.
    o First Solar – 192 MW (est. $200 million investment), 45.5 million euro
    ($62 million) incentive package for Frankfurt (Oder) plant.


    Other countries are backing it more with tax dollars than we are.

    So it's a matter of national WILL. Not a matter of pollution.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Other countries are backing it more with tax dollars than we are.

    I call a big BS. There are big incentives here to install solar. They should ONLY be given to install Solar Cells manufactured in the USA. We have spent Billions on alternative energy and most of it ends up in China.

    Nice try at deflecting from the issue. That being we have a HORRIBLE energy policy. It is designed to send our money out of the country. Mainly to avoid pollution in the USA.

    December 14, 2010
    In the first half of this year, according to the Cleantech Group, which collects data on the sector, corporations invested $5.1 billion in clean technology — a 325 percent increase from the comparable period last year.


    My bet is the money spent by the rest of the World is chump change compared to what we have spent on alternative energy. Those countries you mention spend Millions, while we spend BILLIONS. 2007 Energy bill had $25 Billion marked for alternative energy. I am not saying we spent it wisely. My guess is a big share will end up in Corporate coffers with little to show for it.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Well, maybe more as a percentage of their GDP? :shades:

    There are lots of countries who have spent billions supporting clean energy. We are not alone.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "In a deal that highlights the rapid maturation of the solar industry, French oil major Total SA said Thursday it would spend $1.37 billion to buy a controlling stake in SunPower Corp.

    The deal signals growing confidence among conventional energy players that solar power is poised to grow quickly from its current small size.

    The San Jose, Calif.-based SunPower is one of a handful of solar-panel companies based in the U.S. and Europe that has been competing successfully for market against rapidly growing Chinese panel makers."

    Total Buys Stake in Solar Firm (Wall St. Journal).

    More chump change. :)
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    I had to laugh out loud this evening when Brian Williams (NBC) finally came out and asked a weather person, "Just what are we doing to cause these tornados". He has been hinting around for 2 days now that MMGW is the culprit, but so far no one he has interviewed has taken the bait. I am sure he will find someone soon.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    AFP - US meteorologists warned Thursday it would be a mistake to blame climate change for a seeming increase in tornadoes in the wake of deadly storms that have ripped through the US south.

    However, the stronger-than-usual tornadoes affecting the southern states were actually predicted from examining the planet's climatological patterns, specifically those related to the La Nina phenomenon.

    "We knew it was going to be a big tornado year," he said. But the key to that tip-off was unrelated to climate change: "It is related to the natural fluctuations of the planet."


    http://www.france24.com/en/20110428-tornadoes-whipped-wind-not-climate-officials-
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    The climate change scam artists won't let a few facts stop them from trying to exploit the situation. As The Emanuel Doctrine says, "Never let a catastrophe go to waste".

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,582
    Well, everyone knows this was inherited from Bush :sick: .
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If Bush would have signed Kyoto, we would not have all these Tornadoes and would have avoided Katrina and the Tsunami in Japan. :shades:
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Darn that rascal anyway !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Finally, a name for the people who reject all things green:

    http://news.consumerreports.org/home/2011/04/real-men-dont-tote-reusable-shoppin- g-bags.html

    Real men don’t tote reusable shopping bags
    Apr 28, 2011 5:26 PM

    Is green the new pink? Maybe so. More than 80 percent of respondents to a new study on sustainability said that going green is “more feminine than masculine.” And if men won’t carry reusable bags or water bottles, or drive a Prius, that’s a problem for marketers, says OgilvyEarth, which conducted the study. “Sustainability could use its Marlboro Man moment.”

    “More men identified as Green Rejecters, and the ranks of the Super Greens were dominated by women,” said OgilvyEarth in a press release about its research, adding that most respondents were in the middle. But green’s image problem goes beyond gender differences. Those asked said that going green is too expensive, too niche and only for “crunchy granola hippies or rich elite snobs.”

    Then there’s the guilt. “Green is a major mood kill,” said the study. “People told us they feel guilty about everything from their flat screen TV to their Sunday paper to their Christmas tree,” said OgilvyEarth. “Flooded with guilt, they want to retreat to the comfort of ignorance.”

    In the study, 82 percent of respondents said they had good green intentions but only 16 percent were committed to fulfilling them. OgilvyEarth calls that the Green Gap and recommends some ways to close it, according to this excerpt from the report:

    Make eco-friendly male ego-friendly. Carry a tote, give up your 4WD truck, wear hemp t-shirts, compost … the everyday domestic choices we need to make in favor of sustainability do not make the Nascar fan’s heart race.
    Make it normal. The great Green Middle aren’t looking for things to set them apart from everyone else. They want to fit in.
    Eliminate the sustainability tax. We’re taxing people’s virtuous behavior. The high price of many of the greener products on store shelves suggests that we are trying to limit or discourage more sustainable choices.
    Lose the crunch. Just because a product is green doesn’t mean it must be packaged in burlap. We need to ditch the crunch factor of green and liberate ourselves from the stereotypes.
    Hedonism over altruism. The study reveals the simple truth that people are motivated by things they enjoy doing, like having fun, so rather than making sustainability choices seem like a righteous thing to do, wise brands are tapping into enjoyment over altruism and seeking to hit the consumer’s “G-spot.”

    Now that ought to get someone's attention.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Real men don’t tote reusable shopping bags

    You have to if you shop at our only supermarket Albertsons. They went bagless on the 27th of last month. According to comments in the local paper, several said they would drive the extra 10 miles to Vons and Walmart Supercenter, rather than be forced into carrying in bags. It was mixed men and women. People do not like to be forced into anything, green or otherwise.

    PS
    Only two Albertsons in CA are trying this bagless thing. No big thing to me. We already carry bags, and mostly shop at the little IGA market. They have better produce than Albertsons.

    By the way most granola bars and cereal is far from healthy food.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited May 2011
    WASHINGTON (AP) — April was a historic month for wild weather in the United States, and it wasn't just the killer tornado outbreak that set records, according to scientists with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

    April included an odd mix of downpours, droughts and wildfires. Six states — Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia — set records for the wettest April since 1895. Kentucky, for example, got nearly a foot of rain, which was more than three times its normal for the month, NOAA reported.

    U.S. scientists also looked for the fingerprints of global warming and La Nina on last month's deadly tornadoes, but couldn't find evidence to blame those oft-cited weather phenomena.

    NOAA research meteorologist Martin Hoerling tracked three major factors that go into tornadoes — air instability, wind shear and water vapor — and found no long-term trends that point to either climate change or La Nina. That doesn't mean those factors aren't to blame, but Hoerling couldn't show it, he said.


    PS
    So CA still well below normal by about 10 degrees. Barely made it to 55 degrees yesterday. I demand a reduction in taxes. The state is not providing the perfect weather we pay for. :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We seem to think we will solve GW with spending money. One black hole is the many rail systems we subsidize.

    image
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "California has long taken a lead role in establishing stricter emissions standards to combat bad air quality. In 1966, the state became the first in the U.S. to establish tailpipe-emissions standards. In June 2009, the state won federal approval from the Obama Administration to invoke its own new tailpipe standards after being rejected for years of doing the same under the George W. Bush Administration."

    Lung Association Pushes For Stricter Calif. Rules (AutoObserver)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited May 2011
    WHAT A JOKE

    And do you believe for a second that CARB would allow all those batteries and electric motors to be manufactured in CA? Not even a chance. It is a classic case of NIMBY. CA is famous for it. What would happen if all the coal generation we are currently using from other states was cut off? I also do not believe for a minute that it is car emissions that are the problem. Notice they package it all together.

    "In California, almost half of our air pollution comes from cars and trucks," said American Lung Association in California CEO Jane Warner on the call.

    Almost half, a nice round figure. How much of that comes from semi trucks coming in from Mexico as a result of NAFTA? How much comes from unmitigated trucks from the other 47 states that are not subject to CARB regulations. Every time I am out on the highway I see trucks blowing black smoke. Most have Baja plates loaded down with old appliances or tires headed back to Mexico. If CARB was truly interested in our air quality they would block all trucks without proper emissions devices at the borders, both state and international. They would not allow any ships into the harbors blowing black soot from the bunker oil burning engines.

    My nephew has a diesel repair shop. His main work these days is installing the required emissions on semi trucks. The main complaint he hears is the fact that non CA companies are not held to the same standards.

    What I say to CARB is quit destroying the CA economy with your idiocy.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    And furthermore:

    California has long taken a lead role in establishing stricter emissions standards to combat bad air quality. In 1966, the state became the first in the U.S. to establish tailpipe-emissions standards.

    If that is the case why are vehicles built before 1975 exempt from emissions testing? Yes CA had horrible air up until the EPA outlawed leaded gas. If they had mandated low sulfur diesel at the same time we would not be in this mess. So do gas powered trucks over 14,000 not emit bad stuff? It is about extorting money from the little guy. CARB is a Joke.

    EXEMPTIONS

    A vehicle is exempt from smog testing when:

    It is a diesel vehicle.
    It is an electric powered vehicle.
    It is a gas powered vehicle which weighs more than 14,000 pounds.
    A hybrid vehicle.
    A motorcycle.
    A trailer.
    It is made in 1975 or before.

    If your vehicle is less than six years old, you will not need to have an emissions test carried out. But you will have to pay an annual smog abatement fee of $24. This does not apply to a custom built car made after 1976.


    http://www.dmv.com/ca/california/emissions-testing
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,462
    I don't have to have my trailer tested? Why not? :shades:

    I have always found it funny how heavy vehicles are exempted, too.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You caught that too. I wonder how many trailers pollute? Only in a state filled with fruits, nuts and flakes.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Those that are blinded by Wind and Solar energy fail to see the reality pointed out in your piece. Sadly it is part of what is bankrupting CA and the Nation. And costing me 34 cents a KWH for electricity. Making an EV unaffordable.

    Basic and peak load capacity requirements for coal or nuclear power will not be reduced, but their costs will rise. Least cost per kilowatt hour production requires a constant energy output close to plant capacity, hence low daily and seasonal variation.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2011
    You'll like this:

    Coal Cares™

    (OT, still haven't hunted the dust book down but did get the McPhee Control of Nature book).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You have to admit that was nice of Mr Peabody to make coool inhalers. :shades:

    Hope you like that book. It was very interesting to me.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary asks, "If that is the case why are vehicles built before 1975 exempt from emissions testing?"

    Because the numbers of them being used as "daily drivers" is minuscule and shrinking monthly.

    "Pre-1976 vehicles constitute a small and shrinking portion of the overall vehicle population in California and are a poor source from which to look for further emissions reductions," the SEMA bulletin warns that should this measure go through, the whole state could go on to force newly registered pre-'76 cars to undergo smog checks which they would be unlikely to pass."
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "...A vehicle is exempt from smog testing when: It is a diesel vehicle."
    Diesel cars and trucks undergo their own testing.

    link title

    Effective 01/01/2010: All Diesel vehicles, cars and trucks 1998 and newer, and weighing under 14,500 GVW will need a diesel smog check. The diesel smog test will not include the emissions test portion of the regular inspection. There will be no tailpipe emissions test. Dynamometer testing will not be part of the diesel smog check inspection. Your vehicle will not be driven on the dynamometer during the diesel smog check. Instead the Diesel smog check will focus on a visual inspection of your vehicle's emissions/smog components, a system check of the On Board Diagnostics (OBD II) system, a visual smoke check for excessive black smoke, and an EVAP functional test. Diesel cars and trucks which fail the diesel smog test will have their vehicles repaired at a diesel repair shop.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Gary says, "...A vehicle is exempt from smog testing when: It is a diesel vehicle."

    Gary did NOT say that. The CA DMV said that. I just cut and pasted from the state website, showing how ignorant they are. And as you can see from what you posted the diesel test is little more than a visual check to see if it LOOKS ok. Just another money making scam.

    If the state was interested in the real polluters why exempt heavy polluters like trucks?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    That article contains all the sad, old, stupid arguments that the fossil-fuel-sniffers have always tried to use to deflect alternative energy sources.

    It's a journey to cleaner power sources, and small steps have to be taken along the way.

    Like forcing companies to use cleaner alternatives. And cleaning up coal. And requiring cleaner new coal plants.

    We are still waiting for human ingenuity and technology to advance to certain points with alternative fuel sources, making them more efficient and cheaper.

    Those who decide to attack the methods of patience, and the small steps required to get to cleaner energy sources, are just battling the inevitable, and causing feelings to get hurt for no good reason.

    Clean energy will SOMEDAY REIGN SUPREME !!!!! Bet on it.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited May 2011
    Clean energy will SOMEDAY REIGN SUPREME !!!!! Bet on it.

    Not necessarily alternative energy. Gas is clean energy. Nuclear is clean energy. And one day we will see clean coal energy. So I guess we agree.

    In the mean time the government needs to butt out and quit raising our energy costs with their scatter brained chasing rainbows.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "Nuclear is clean energy."

    Except for that nasty little bit of WASTE at the end...... :shades:

    And I don't think a wind farm or a giant solar panel array getting hit by a tsunami call for a 60km evacuation.....
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    edited May 2011
    fossil-fuel-sniffers

    I guess the opposite of that would be hybrid suckers who think they are being "green" and never realize they are actually burning coal. ;)

    Also, some of your liberal government heroes who have pushed so hard for electrics and hybrids now want to tax you based on miles driven in order to recoup their lost gasoline tax revenues due to electric and hybrid vehicles.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "If the state was interested in the real polluters why exempt heavy polluters like trucks?"

    Ah, but they AREN'T. They just have their own set of tests:

    Diesel Trucks and Big Rigs
    Vehicles in California with a GVW of more than 14,000 pounds are not subject to the biennial smog check. But, according to the environmental protection group ForceChange, they still operate under some of the toughest standards in the nation. In December of 2008, the California Air Resources board passed strict rules to clean-up big-rig pollution. Starting on January 1, 2011, truck owners will have to install diesel exhaust filters on their rigs. And beginning in 2012, owners will have to replace engines older than the 2010 model year on a staggered schedule through 2022.

    Read more: California Diesel Smog Rules | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6008671_california-diesel-smog-rules.html#ixzz1MAxmAEiu-
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I don't burn any coal in MY hybrid. It's not a plug-in. I generates electricity from the gasoline engine and from energy re-capture when braking.

    And if I buy a plug-in EV or hybrid, I will be using my solar panels for a good chunk of that plug-in power. :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    And I don't think a wind farm or a giant solar panel array getting hit by a tsunami call for a 60km evacuation.

    No and they are not reliable 24/7 sources of energy either. They are hit and miss. So have just as many issues if not more. That was an extreme earthquake. I think they did pretty well considering the enormity of the tsunami. You're not suggesting that wind or solar would likely withstand an earthquake, tsunami, hurricane, flood or tornado are you? I know the ones that we get power from get shut down on a regular basis due to our normally high winds coming off the desert. They are only being used to satisfy the idiotic mandate by the state of CA.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2011
    When wind or solar gets hit by an earthquake or tornado, the infrastructure is just destroyed. You can rebuild. When the nuke suffers a core meltdown, you spend years and billions just trying to contain the damage. (WSJ). Meanwhile there goes your electrical base.

    Brown's Ferry has had problems for decades and with their defective valve(s), TVA is lucky it didn't have trouble shutting it down during the last wave of tornadoes that hit Alabama and the South.

    Like natural gas eh? Hope one of those pipes doesn't blow up in your neighborhood when the weld fails. $500,000 per mile to pressure test. That's going to help your electric rate as PG&E starts testing. (WSJ). At least that isn't going to taint your drinking water from fracturing the ground.

    Like hydro? Watch the reservoirs silt up and worsen downstream flooding as the wetlands disappear.

    What's to like? Conservation - I suspect that will be Japan's next growth industry.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Oh, they WILL be. When we get

    a) enough of them, and
    b) technological improvements

    Both of which are coming down the pike.

    And technology is in place to "brake" the wind turbines when the wind gets "too high." It's just not inside all the turbines yet.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What's to like? Conservation - I suspect that will be Japan's next growth industry.

    You mean as in using less? That leaves out EVs and plugin hybrids. It seems that every every source has its pitfalls. The safest is probably gas or coal generated electricity built close to the fuel source.

    I just got my electric bill. $72 for 459 KWHs. I did not go past tier 2 so kept it down. That was NO AC and all CFL lights. We do have two large refrigerators and 3 printers that are always on with all the network stuff. So I could conserve a bit more. My bill is not enough to justify installing solar according to those that sell solar.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Oh, they WILL be. When we get

    You just don't get it. Wind will NEVER be reliable 24/7 EVER, EVER, EVER. That means you need some form of backup generation. Which raises the cost to the consumer needlessly.
This discussion has been closed.