I had to buy and install a auxilliary battery tray for my 2001 GMC 2500HD to accomodate the battery for my new camper. I know this is probably a dumb blonde question, and please forgive my ignorance, but there's a bracket above the tray which looks like it will interfere with fitting a battery in that spot. I doesn't look like it there's enough height clearance for the size of the battery I thought I was supposed to buy. Am I supposed to remove that bracket or is there some "special" GM AC/Delco astronmically expensive battery that I now have to buy in order to fit one in there? Getting ready to pickup my camper on Friday 2000 Palamino B1200 Slide In Pop Up! I'm really looking forward to it!
Or rather, the lack of snow. Markbuck, we're also in our fourth year of drought in southwest Wyoming/northern Utah. Unless we get some significant storms soon we'll have little snow remaining in the Uintas, if any, by the time you arrive. Bald Mountain Pass is not usually open until late June or later but it may open early this year due to lack of snow. Have fun riding the bikes. I miss that activity but had to scale back somewhere after having kids. After snowmobiling since the late 1960s until five years ago I got my sleds running again to find there was little snow this spring. What a bummer. At least we'll have fun camping this year, if taking two four year olds away from home without their mother (who doesn't like camping) can be fun.
When GM adds a battery in that location, the decided the brace wasn't needed anymore.
Strange, that it is only needed when you don't have an auxillary battery. I believe the GM 2nd battery is the same as the main battery.
I bought an expensive little battery that fit under the brace and is supposed to have as much power as a regular battery. Best thing I can say about it is that the brace is still there, and the battery fits.
Did you get the GM relay also? And the special battery to starter cable? How about the other pieces and parts?
Have you ever read Vince's story on installing an auxillary battery? He's the one who gave most of us the part numbers and installation hints. If you don't have it, let me know and I can email it to you, or post it here.
I'm having the installation done, not doing it myself. I'm not sure if they're getting the GM Relay etc. Do I really need all that stuff? As far as I know he's installing an isolator which will allow the battery to be charged while the truck is running and then cut's off the truck battery from the system when not running along with the other necessary parts/wiring which make the system work. From what I've read this looks like the most common setup out there. I haven't read Vince's Battery Story, but would like to. E-mail me or post it here, makes no difference. Maybe posting here would be better so everyone will benefit. What make/amp battery did you buy? I take it from your reply I can't remove that bracket?
I just got off the phone with the Parts Dept. at the dealer. I relayed your info regarding the brace not being there when an aux battery is installed at the factory and I specifically asked "It looks like a battery won't fit with the brace in place, is it safe to remove it to accomodate the battery". They said the "once the battery tray is installed, it serves as the brace and the existing brace above it can be removed safely". Looks like the space issue is solved. Any recommendations on batteries out there?
AH JEEZ!!! Just hung up the phone from the guy doing the install. Told him that gmc parts said I could take the brace off. Installer said he had to remove a lower brace to put the tray in which was similar but smaller than the one above, but he said that the upper brace holds the corner of the quarter panel and the area above the firewall which it's bolted to together. He said he definetly would not recommend removing that brace. Below is link to wrangler products aftermarket aux battery kit products. If you have adobe reader, click on the "Dual Battery Tray for the Chevy Avalance" for a pic of their install under the hood.
....see the lip above the terminal connection with the two holes in it? The brace I'm talking about removing is bolted to there, bends in an arc to the outside of the truck and bolts to the quarter panel just about where the lower left side of the battery is. A fellow employee has an avalance..., I guess I'll ask if I can peek under his hood to see if he has a brace there. I looked at my truck last night and can't see what useful purpose that brace serves. I measured the lowest clearance point and it's 6 inches high.
The only advantage to the GM relay is the fact that it plugs directly into the wiring harness and will switch ON when the ignition is on and OFF when the ignition is off. No extra wiring needed.
It is my belief the fender brace is removed by GM when they install the aux battery. Check out a dual battery diesel at you dealer. Must not be a very important brace, huh? You won't be the only one without that brace in any case.
OK, here's my battery story. Chevy at first said you couldn't get the aux battery when you get California emissions (required here), then after I ordered the truck I learned they removed that restriction. So I ordered most of the parts from the parts department and did it myself. The details apply to a 99/00 Silverado. The parts you need: 15705102 Support bracket $12.85 356668 Battery clamp $5.70 12135194 Relay $42.84 15321214 Cable, pos to relay $29.00 15321259 Cable, starter to relay $33.66 15321207 Cable, neg $30.35 21021808 Nut, metric, bag/10 $3.60 You must order the support tray at least. It replaces an existing bracket. The other items can be bought in some form aftermarket but the factory items fit nicely and are well made. I didn't buy the battery but found that I will have to because the available height is very minimum so the low profile side terminal battery is all that will fit. I don't know yet if they make a deep cycle battery in that style but I hope so because it's important to use that type. If desired, they sell a battery insulator jacket like is on the main battery for only a few dollars. The overall concept is that the alternator output is taken from the heavy cable attached to the starter motor, run to a relay, and the other side of the relay then goes to the aux battery AND the camper. This means when the engine is on, the main battery and the aux battery and the camper are all connected together (in parallel) so the alternator can charge everything. Then when the ignition is off the relay opens up and only the aux battery is connected to the camper. If the camper has its own battery (mine does) then the two batteries are connected together so you get double capacity. Of course you can run them down without affecting the main truck battery. Now some useful details I learned. First, disconnect the main battery negative cable! Attach the cable to the starter using one of the new nuts, don't take off the original cable, just add the new one. The stud is long enough. Access the starter stud via the passenger side wheel well. I was able to reach over the top of the tire and get in there with a small rachet. The end of the cable with heat shielding goes here. Find the connector for the relay control hanging near the air conditioner dryer tank. This is near the aux battery location against the firewall. It is a 2 pin connector, if you don't have air cond. then there might be two connectors. The one with the white locking clip is for the air cond., use the other one. Mount the relay on the firewall in a convienent location, you have to drill 2 holes. Don't put it where the battery will hit it or where the studs could touch metal parts. Plug in the little connector and attach the heavy cable to the bottom stud using one of the new nuts. Tie the cable to the frame away from the exhaust manifold. Notice the cable has a fuseable link in the relay end. Get some heavy automotive wire, at least 10 guage. Put a ring lug on one end and connect it to the top relay stud. This wire has to go across the engine bay to the big fuse box on the driver's side. I ran it up over above the engine using clamps to hold it to the firewall. The aux battery positive cable also attaches to the same relay stud. I ordered the trailer towing package and the camper/5th wheel wiring options. These are both the same electrically but the camper wiring just has an extra bundle between the cab and bed with unfinished ends. The following details apply to both the camper and hitch wiring. The camper positive lead is red and comes into the fuse box in one of those big covered bundles. It goes to a hidden stud and is powered via the upper left most fuse (40A) which isn't installed from the factory but they give you loose with the towing option. We don't use this because we don't want main battery power. To get this wire free, you need to lift the entire plastic body off the fuse box. Remove the top, then pull the bottom far side away from the little tabs locking it down. Pull up and you can get a few inches of movement. You may need to unlock the clip between the fuse box and the fender with a screwdriver. The cover will not come off due to a bracket but you can get enough distance to see the red wire on the stud in the far left corner. Remove the wire, pull it out and put the plastic back in place. This is the feed for the camper and needs to connect to the heavy wire coming from the relay. You shouldn't connect them directly because it's a safety hazard. A better way is to connect them through a circuit breaker. At the auto or RV store they sell little 30A breakers for about $3 that have two studs. Connect each wire to a stud and you have a nice junction block and protection against shorts. I mounted the breaker on the plastic fuse box, in the cutout where your fingers go to pull the cover off. This way the connections are covered when the cover is on. Only thing left is the aux battery negative cable. I don't know where it goes because I haven't put a battery in yet. I'm sure there must be a good ground nearby since this is a factory option. Otherwise just connect it to a solid, clean metal ground. For the camper end, I ran the wire bundle into the bed through one of the existing holes in the front corner. Then ran it behind my bedliner and mounted a nice metal connector in the bedliner wall (had to shorten the connector with a hacksaw). I bought the connector at the RV store. It fits almost flush against the bedliner, has 6 pins and a spring loaded door to keep the elements out. The door also locks the mating connector in when inserted. I put in a similar system in my old truck but didn't have any factory provisions to work with. I used a relay from the RV store ($17) and it worked fine, or you could use a solid state isolator. I learned that those relays can't tolerate water so be careful where you mount it if you go this way. I sealed the second one with RTV and never had a problem. Also be sure to use a circuit breaker or fuse between the between the aux battery and the camper, otherwise it's a fire hazard. Good Luck!
I'll be in Monday & Tuesday days, if that isn't too late. I'll drive the truck in then & you can check out mine, it that will help you. Sorry if too late. -Eric
That's not too late, that'd help me alot ! Got the camper this morning. Will most likely still have it on the truck next week. I'm kinda nerved up about taking it off, worried I won't get it back on again. I'll be practicing over the weekend....
The brace must come off to fit any normal battery. I worried about it too and spent some time looking into it. GM removes the brace when you order the truck with the aux battery option so I did to. My Optima battery may actually fit if put on its side but then the hold down doesn't work so I chose to just remove the brace. I don't agree with the dealer though. The battery tray replaces a lower bracket but it doesn't offer any more support than the original bracket. It does not replace the function of the upper brace, however I have no idea what the function of the upper brace is anyway. It may be there for general rigidity or for crash design. Anyway just remove it and don't give it another thought.
If you can afford it, the Optima yellow (deep cycle) is a good battery. I found it for $140 at a battery shop. It usually sells for $180-200. GM uses the same battery as the main, not even a deep cycle. They don't intend the aux battery to be used with a RV so a deep cycle isn't needed.
wish I had your link before we began the install, looks like it was alot easier, because you used all the gm parts. I'm searching for an optima deep cycle now.
last night - Can I use an Optima Blue Top? That's the deep cycle marine model. They're pretty damn pricy though. I can get a lower end model for $70.00. I'll probably only use the furnace 4 - 6 times per year and will run the fridge and stove almost exclusively on gas. Do I really need such an expensive high end battery considering my usage?
You can run almost any battery you want. The biggest advantage a gell cell or other non-liquid electrolyte battery has is the ability to mount in any position; the caps/post don't have to be up.
The deep cycle battery will tolerate deep discharge and long term storage better than standard batteries will. If you use you camper more or less year round or put a charger (a good one with a charge program built in) on it during storage, then no problem with almost any battery.
On the other hand, if you pull the camper off and let is sit for months at a time, then you may wan to invest in a better battery.
My little Oddessy battery met all of our electrical needs while fitting under the fender brace. We don't use much electricity - no stereo, TV, AC, Microwave, bugzapper or whatever. Just some lights when it is dark, a small fan when it is hot and that is about it. So any battery would be enough for us, maybe even just using the truck battery. But I like the insurance of having the main battery untouched by the camper.
PC925, its only 5" tall. I set it on the GM battery tray and made a clamp to go over the top of it. The relay I mounted to the side of the battery tray, 'cause I didn't want to drill holes in the firewall. I hate the possibility of drilling through the metal, and into something I can't see on the other side.
I should probably take a couple pictures of the battery/relay installation and post them. Tonight is grocery shopping, so I don't know if I can do it tonight, or maybe tomorrow.
GM has actually come out with a procedure for wiring the aux battery as we learned on this board. Their system is a little better than mine because they put the circuit breaker next to the relay and then run a wire over to the Stud A and use the stud as a way to connect both wires. Not much difference either way.
Of course if you aren't quite familiar with the nitty gritty details of this wiring nothing I've said will make any sense!
Aux Battery Install is complete! Went with regular battery for now. Everything is in working order. Furnace, Lights, Fridge. Taking my first trip this week. Leaving on Thursday. I'm sure glad I have a furnace now. It's been really cold at night here in Upstate NY the last few days. Supposed to warm up by Thursday, but I think I'm gonna need a little heat at night. Vince and others, thank you so much for all your help. You folks have been super!
We use a down comforter on cold night. I set the thermostat at 35 to prevent pipes from freezing, and the down keeps us plenty warm. I had to move the thermostat so we can reach it from the bed. Turn it up and let it warmup before getting up.
I made my bed up last night with flannel sheets AND a Down Comforter. Plus I packed the longjohns, sweats, hooded sweatshirt and jammies. Should be plenty warm! Temp is going up the next couple of days here (WhooooHoooo - Finally!) Supposed to get to 80 tomorrow. To give you an idea how cold it's been here, we got 6 inches of snow on Saturday. The pile that slid off the barn roof is STILL THERE! Hasn't melted in four days. The weather is truly awful. I'm off for my first excursion tomorrow am. Will let you all know how it goes! Happy Memorial Day Weekend!
And hopefully you will learn a couple of little things that you can change to make your camper more enjoyable. We've got 60,000 miles on our little camper, and we are still changing things.
I noticed a popup camper in the SJ Merc today. It is a 12' Alaskan camper. Not exactly small or light, but it does go down, and it is cheap - $600!!! May be a misprint, but that is what it says.
Well, my buddy and I jointly own a 25' Nash Bunkhouse Travel Trailer. Works great for his family and for me when I haul a buncha guys to a motorcycle race.
Well, we're now fighting over weekends for this summer, so we thought we'd add a jointly owned popup camper to the stable. I'd like a fairly well constructed 8' camper with furnace, hot water heater, and stove, porto pottie slot ok, maybe with outside shower.
Buddy has a v10 CC LB F350. I have a 2500HD CC LB 6.0.
Live in AZ at 7,000', tend to camp higher.
Suggestions?
Oh ya, popup desirable as we'd use this camper for quick trips to races, where we drive 1500 miles in a weekend at speeds of 80mph, so aerodynamics/fuel econ improvements are desirable.
I was disappointed to learn that the Optima yellow top is only a 55ah battery. Most other regular batteries of this size are around 105ah. I guess you give up more than $$ to get the rugged construction.
Here's my list. As always, let me know if I'm missing any. My choice for a popup from a feature/construction point of view is the North Star. They have an 8' model with a built in toilet.
These are oriented to off road use so are expensive and minimum inside. They are smaller than others which is good off road but not so important on the highway.
Used a Four Wheel Camper. Rugged, lightweight and tends towards a minimalist approach. Other campers have more room and more creature comforts. A Four Wheel Camper equipped the way we wanted was about $11K. The Phoenix camper was a little of $9K, but 1/2 the difference was CA Sales Tax.
We had our Phoenix camper built to the size of the Four Wheel Camper. The size works well for us, and we still don't want a larger camper. My wife could easily put up the top on the Four Wheel Camperl, and she cannot put up the top on the Phoenix.
The soft side on the Four Wheel is a single layer of HD tent material. You add a separate layer for cold weather insulation. Our Phoenix has triple layer sidewalls, coated tent material inside and out, and a 1/4" foam layer in between. The material doesn't hold up too well - the outer layer is cracked at the fold corners.
All in all, I think the Four Wheel camper is worth the money. When we bought our camper, money was tight. If I was doing it today, I would go for the Four Wheel Camper.
Yup, thinking the four wheel camper, split halfways with my buddy, not too bad. Do you have to pay CA sales tax. I'd rather my tax money go to AZ........
Had a great trip! Camper was comfy, dry and warm. Truck hauled my loaded horse trailer and camper like a charm. Only ran the furnace in AM to take the chill off. Got toasty real quick in there. I'm very pleased! Only had one minor problem.
I plugged the camper into house electric overnite Wednesday to get the fridge going. Didn't get even lukewarm. I was parked on a very slight incline, so next time I'll try on a completely level surface. Then, I put the fridge on gas thinking it would get cold while driving, stopped to buy a wrench & checked. Flame was out. Switched over to DC power and it got cold while I was on the road, changed over to gas when I got to my campsite and it worked fine all weekend.
The AC, DC and gas all do the same thing - supply heat for the refrig to run. If DC and gas both work, then either the AC heater is defective, or the AC wiring is a problem.
Do you have anyway to measure the AC voltage? Does the AC get to the refrig? Is the refrig plugged in? Is the outlet hooked up? Mine has an AC outlet between the refrig and the outer wall, and the refrig plugs into that. Yours may or may not be similar.
I usually run DC when driving and Gas when camped. On the rare occasions that the camper is plugged in, I use AC - usually on use AC at home in the driveway.
We have an awning on the side of the camper. We've only used it 2-3 times, and then mostly to give the camper some shade. We usually have shade on one side of the camper and sit in that. In the middle of day we are either on the road or out doing something.
Degree of levelness seems a little more important when running with resistance heat, maybe less circulation of the ammonia. As I have a two-way, I run gas unless plugged into shore power. Almost never have a flameout, even with 80mph travel....
I'll check on all that stuff you posted tonite. Have no way to measure the voltage though, but I will re-visit someone who can. I do have an electric plug that runs from the fridge to an ac outlet. It's located behind it and accessible from the outside of the camper when you open the door behind the fridge, I know that's plugged in. When I first plugged in the AC Power, I heard some kind of fan running, but was unsure what it was was.
Well, you know what they say - RTFM (Read the Freakin' Manual). I'll take another look at that tonight to see if I can glean any more info from it. I'll post back tomorrow if I find out anything.
There is some pretty amazing air turbulance when pushing a camper along at highway speeds - even with a popup. For instance when I use my windshield washers over 50mph, the spray goes forward over the hood and then off to the side with hardly any at all ever arriving at the windshield. Our frig won't stay lit unless we have been driving very slowly. In fact, after some high speed trips the lower refrigerator access door was deformed, the two lower corners pulling outwards and bending the door where it is held down by the latch. I fixed it by putting in a strip of 3/16 thick aluminum with pop rivets to reinforce the lower part of the door. Now the top vent panel has developed a tear in the solid strip of aluminum between two rows of vents and I will be repairing this with some reinforcement also.
We have hit 80mph only a few times, mostly cruising at 70 to 75 on the Interstates but often are pushing against a 10-30mph headwind on the way west. I think the ability of the flame to survive depends upon the location of the frig in the camper, the type of air turbulence created by the particular model of truck, etc. When you think about what would happen to a house subjected to winds of up to 100mph (truck speed plus headwind) I guess I'm not surprised at tearing a bit of aluminum.
We run on 12 volt when driving, gas when parked, and on 120 when an outlet is easily available. There is a thermostat at the top of the frig compartment that switches on a "muffin" type fan when the compartment gets too warm. Laurie, you may have heard a fan of this type start up when you plugged in. It should run, no matter what power source you are using as long as the compartment is too warm. Our thermostat was inoperative when we purchased the camper and I replaced it with one that senses air temperature instead of temp in the refrigeration plumbing.
Congratulations on a successful first trip. After all the battery hassle you went through I'm glad you can relax and enjoy it now.
You can check if the fridge is getting power by plugging a lamp or something into its AC outlet. It's possible there is a circuit breaker open.
My fridge is only 2 way so I always run with gas. In all the years I've had it the flame only went out once. You could install a sheetmetal baffle to protect the flame area from direct wind if yours keeps going out. Take a look at the flame and make sure its even and blue. It's common for the feed tube to become partially plugged with spider webs, rust, etc. In that event clearing the junk will probably fix the problem.
I can't run my refrig on gas when moving - it always blows out. It used to bother me, but then I figured that the 12V was free (more or less) but that I have to buy the gas.
OK, ok, I have to buy gas for the truck to generate the 12V. But, I'll bet that having 1 tire 2psi low uses more gas than the refrig does. And the longer I can put off buying propane the better.
With the aux battery, I can run several hours on 12V, so I don't worry much about it if I forget when we stop for lunch or so.
My dad's camper never blows out the refrig flame. Now he has a 27' camper, and I'm sure the air flow is much smoother than our popups, but it never blows out.
My popup didn't have a fan for the cooling coils. It depends on what model of refrig you have. So I added one and some baffling to ensure the air goes through the coils. Helps some on hot days, but it is not needed when we are moving, just when we are stopped.
and it still didn't work I unplugged the fridge and plugged in my Dust Buster. It worked so there is power to it. I tracked down the fan sound down I heard when I plugged in, it's the converter. I put 2 frozen 32oz bottles of water in it, one in the freezer and the other in the fridge. There is a switch on the outside wall on the right of the fridge which runs a fan that's on top of the fridge itself. I turned it off on my first trip because I didn't want to run the battery down. That fan didn't seem to make a difference one way or another in it's functionality on DC or Gas. That must be the fan stabbur is referring to. I didn't turn it on last night when plugged into AC, nor was I able to completely level the camper. I have to park in the road to do that and wanted to give the driveway one more shot. I'm going to pay my bill for the battery and wiring tonight and plan on asking my installer about it. The camper was sold to me by the dealer "as is", so I don't expect I'll get any resolution from him if something is wrong with it. Besides, after all the grief he caused me, I wouldn't go back there anyway. He was a major PITA. If push comes to shove, I'll run DC while I drive and Gas when I get there. Just thought I'd save a little when I actually have AC available. Will keep you all posted, thanks for all the info!
Why are you running the fridge while going down the road? Mine stays cold for at least five hours, my longest trip so far. Everything in the freezor was still solid and the fridge only got up to 46 degrees, from 40. And that was last summer when the temps were over 90. At that rate, 1.2 degrees per hour, I could have driven another 3 hours before my fridge hit 50 degrees. Granted, stuff won't stay fresh very long at that temp, but an hour or two won't hurt. If I run my fridge down to 35 degrees, an eight hour trip should be no problem. My dealer has always told me the fridge will not work going down the road. He says the motion will prevent the ammonia from circulating properly.
My fridge blows out infrequently (once every few days). The vents near the burner are horizontal louvers. I read in the last few days (new Trailer Life?) a possible solution. It consisted of screwing on an aluminum shield offset an inch from the louver vents, thus giving some protection from wind gusts but still allowing good ventilation. I intend to try it but it may be awhile before my next trip and a test. I think keeping good ventilation is critical for both safety and efficiency.
My first trip was 3 hours on the road. Next longest will be a 6 hour ride to Gettysburg, PA. Everyone I know who has a camper, motorhome or a horse trailer with living quarters runs their fridge on AC for a few hours the night before they leave. Over the last 20 years my mom did that in her pop up, slide in and her motor home. I thought cooling the fridge before you hit the road was common practice, then you pack it with your frozen meat & perishibles. I think if it's cooled and then packed, you certainly should be able to get away with not running it at all while you were driving (depending on length of trip and exterior temp)like you indicated, however, since I wasn't successful getting it even remotely close to cold on AC, I needed to run it while I was driving.
Turns out the guy who did my wiring is also a Dometic Warranty repair person, so he'll to hook it up to the c'puter to see if there's a problem with the "computer board" or something I think he called a "K-Valve". He claimed those are the two most common things to go on the units and since the camper is a 2000 model, he thinks I can get it repaired under warranty. Will have it "analysed" next week and see what gives.
how to baffle the vent on the irv2 slide in board. 1. Buy a baffle kit from Dometic for $50 or 2. Buy a furnace filter and some velcro dots. Put the dots on the filter and the inside of the vent door, secure the filter to the velcro, and....whalla...baffled but still ventilated. The guy who did this said it works great and cost him $2.00.
When we travel, we are on the road from 7am until we camp for the night, sometimes several days in a row. We will be doing that this summer on our way to Labrador from California - looks like 4000-4300 miles one way. Then we can take it easy on the way home.
We have a small Dometic (~2cf) and it has a hard time cooling down in warm weather. So we always have it on. 12v when driving, gas when parked - even for an hour at lunch. Always try to park with the sun on the other side of the camper.
Comments
Kevin, Evanston, WY
Strange, that it is only needed when you don't have an auxillary battery. I believe the GM 2nd battery is the same as the main battery.
I bought an expensive little battery that fit under the brace and is supposed to have as much power as a regular battery. Best thing I can say about it is that the brace is still there, and the battery fits.
Did you get the GM relay also? And the special battery to starter cable? How about the other pieces and parts?
Have you ever read Vince's story on installing an auxillary battery? He's the one who gave most of us the part numbers and installation hints. If you don't have it, let me know and I can email it to you, or post it here.
Mike L
http://www.wranglernw.com/
....see the lip above the terminal connection with the two holes in it? The brace I'm talking about removing is bolted to there, bends in an arc to the outside of the truck and bolts to the quarter panel just about where the lower left side of the battery is. A fellow employee has an avalance..., I guess I'll ask if I can peek under his hood to see if he has a brace there. I looked at my truck last night and can't see what useful purpose that brace serves. I measured the lowest clearance point and it's 6 inches high.
It is my belief the fender brace is removed by GM when they install the aux battery. Check out a dual battery diesel at you dealer. Must not be a very important brace, huh? You won't be the only one without that brace in any case.
Mike L
Chevy at first said you couldn't get the aux battery when you get California emissions (required here), then after I ordered the truck I learned they removed that restriction. So I ordered most of the parts from the parts department and did it myself. The details apply to a 99/00 Silverado. The parts you need:
15705102 Support bracket $12.85 356668 Battery clamp $5.70
12135194 Relay $42.84 15321214 Cable, pos to relay $29.00
15321259 Cable, starter to relay $33.66 15321207 Cable, neg $30.35
21021808 Nut, metric, bag/10 $3.60
You must order the support tray at least. It replaces an existing bracket. The other items can be bought in some form aftermarket but the factory items fit nicely and are well made. I didn't buy the battery but found that I will have to because the available height is very minimum so the low profile side terminal battery is all that will fit. I don't know yet if they make a deep cycle battery in that style but I hope so because it's important to use that type. If desired, they sell a battery insulator jacket like is on the main battery for only a few dollars. The overall concept is that the alternator output is taken from the heavy cable attached to the starter motor, run to a relay, and the other side of the relay then goes to the aux battery AND the camper. This means when the engine is on, the main battery and the aux battery and the camper are all connected together (in parallel) so the alternator can charge everything. Then when the ignition is off the relay opens up and only the aux battery is connected to the camper. If the camper has its own battery (mine does) then the two batteries are connected together so you get double capacity. Of course you can run them down without affecting the main truck battery. Now some useful details I learned. First, disconnect the main battery negative cable! Attach the cable to the starter using one of the new nuts, don't take off the original cable, just add the new one. The stud is long enough. Access the starter stud via the passenger side wheel well. I was able to reach over the top of the tire and get in there with a small rachet. The end of the cable with heat shielding goes here. Find the connector for the relay control hanging near the air conditioner dryer tank. This is near the aux battery location against the firewall. It is a 2 pin connector, if you don't have air cond. then there might be two connectors. The one with the white locking clip is for the air cond., use the other one. Mount the relay on the firewall in a convienent location, you have to drill 2 holes. Don't put it where the battery will hit it or where the studs could touch metal parts. Plug in the little connector and attach the heavy cable to the bottom stud using one of the new nuts. Tie the cable to the frame away from the exhaust manifold. Notice the cable has a fuseable link in the relay end. Get some heavy automotive wire, at least 10 guage. Put a ring lug on one end and connect it to the top relay stud. This wire has to go across the engine bay to the big fuse box on the driver's side. I ran it up over above the engine using clamps to hold it to the firewall. The aux battery positive cable also attaches to the same relay stud. I ordered the trailer towing package and the camper/5th wheel wiring options. These are both the same electrically but the camper wiring just has an extra bundle between the cab and bed with unfinished ends. The following details apply to both the camper and hitch wiring. The camper positive lead is red and comes into the fuse box in one of those big covered bundles. It goes to a hidden stud and is powered via the upper left most fuse (40A) which isn't installed from the factory but they give you loose with the towing option. We don't use this because we don't want main battery power. To get this wire free, you need to lift the entire plastic body off the fuse box. Remove the top, then pull the bottom far side away from the little tabs locking it down. Pull up and you can get a few inches of movement. You may need to unlock the clip between the fuse box and the fender with a screwdriver. The cover will not come off due to a bracket but you can get enough distance to see the red wire on the stud in the far left corner. Remove the wire, pull it out and put the plastic back in place. This is the feed for the camper and needs to connect to the heavy wire coming from the relay. You shouldn't connect them directly because it's a safety hazard. A better way is to connect them through a circuit breaker. At the auto or RV store they sell little 30A breakers for about $3 that have two studs. Connect each wire to a stud and you have a nice junction block and protection against shorts. I mounted the breaker on the plastic fuse box, in the cutout where your fingers go to pull the cover off. This way the connections are covered when the cover is on. Only thing left is the aux battery negative cable. I don't know where it goes because I haven't put a battery in yet. I'm sure there must be a good ground nearby since this is a factory option. Otherwise just connect it to a solid, clean metal ground. For the camper end, I ran the wire bundle into the bed through one of the existing holes in the front corner. Then ran it behind my bedliner and mounted a nice metal connector in the bedliner wall (had to shorten the connector with a hacksaw). I bought the connector at the RV store. It fits almost flush against the bedliner, has 6 pins and a spring loaded door to keep the elements out. The door also locks the mating connector in when inserted. I put in a similar system in my old truck but didn't have any factory provisions to work with. I used a relay from the RV store ($17) and it worked fine, or you could use a solid state isolator. I learned that those relays can't tolerate water so be careful where you mount it if you go this way. I sealed the second one with RTV and never had a problem. Also be sure to use a circuit breaker or fuse between the between the aux battery and the camper, otherwise it's a fire hazard. Good Luck!
-Eric
http://home.attbi.com/~vcm/batt/battery.html
The brace must come off to fit any normal battery. I worried about it too and spent some time looking into it. GM removes the brace when you order the truck with the aux battery option so I did to. My Optima battery may actually fit if put on its side but then the hold down doesn't work so I chose to just remove the brace. I don't agree with the dealer though. The battery tray replaces a lower bracket but it doesn't offer any more support than the original bracket. It does not replace the function of the upper brace, however I have no idea what the function of the upper brace is anyway. It may be there for general rigidity or for crash design. Anyway just remove it and don't give it another thought.
If you can afford it, the Optima yellow (deep cycle) is a good battery. I found it for $140 at a battery shop. It usually sells for $180-200. GM uses the same battery as the main, not even a deep cycle. They don't intend the aux battery to be used with a RV so a deep cycle isn't needed.
The deep cycle battery will tolerate deep discharge and long term storage better than standard batteries will. If you use you camper more or less year round or put a charger (a good one with a charge program built in) on it during storage, then no problem with almost any battery.
On the other hand, if you pull the camper off and let is sit for months at a time, then you may wan to invest in a better battery.
My little Oddessy battery met all of our electrical needs while fitting under the fender brace. We don't use much electricity - no stereo, TV, AC, Microwave, bugzapper or whatever. Just some lights when it is dark, a small fan when it is hot and that is about it. So any battery would be enough for us, maybe even just using the truck battery. But I like the insurance of having the main battery untouched by the camper.
Mike L
I should probably take a couple pictures of the battery/relay installation and post them. Tonight is grocery shopping, so I don't know if I can do it tonight, or maybe tomorrow.
Mike L
Of course if you aren't quite familiar with the nitty gritty details of this wiring nothing I've said will make any sense!
Mike L
And hopefully you will learn a couple of little things that you can change to make your camper more enjoyable. We've got 60,000 miles on our little camper, and we are still changing things.
Have fun, that is the most important part!
Mike L
650-361-8978
Mike L
Well, we're now fighting over weekends for this summer, so we thought we'd add a jointly owned popup camper to the stable. I'd like a fairly well constructed 8' camper with furnace, hot water heater, and stove, porto pottie slot ok, maybe with outside shower.
Buddy has a v10 CC LB F350. I have a 2500HD CC LB 6.0.
Live in AZ at 7,000', tend to camp higher.
Suggestions?
Oh ya, popup desirable as we'd use this camper for quick trips to races, where we drive 1500 miles in a weekend at speeds of 80mph, so aerodynamics/fuel econ improvements are desirable.
http://www.rvbg.com/
http://www.rvsafety.com/Manufact.htm
Recommendations include:
Four Wheel Campers
R. C. Willet Campers
Phoenix Campers get a lukewarm vote
Vince has a list of popup manufacturers, but I couldn't find it on his website. Maybe he will post it for you.
Mike L
http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/
http://www.palominorv.com/
http://www.phoenixcampers.com/index.html
http://sunliteinc.com/
http://www.northstarcampers.com/ (RC Willet)
http://www.alaskancamper.com
http://www.lite-craftcampers.com
http://www.hallmarkrv.com/
Anybody own one?
What type of popup camper did the turtle expedition use?
We had our Phoenix camper built to the size of the Four Wheel Camper. The size works well for us, and we still don't want a larger camper. My wife could easily put up the top on the Four Wheel Camperl, and she cannot put up the top on the Phoenix.
The soft side on the Four Wheel is a single layer of HD tent material. You add a separate layer for cold weather insulation. Our Phoenix has triple layer sidewalls, coated tent material inside and out, and a 1/4" foam layer in between. The material doesn't hold up too well - the outer layer is cracked at the fold corners.
All in all, I think the Four Wheel camper is worth the money. When we bought our camper, money was tight. If I was doing it today, I would go for the Four Wheel Camper.
Mike L
I plugged the camper into house electric overnite Wednesday to get the fridge going. Didn't get even lukewarm. I was parked on a very slight incline, so next time I'll try on a completely level surface. Then, I put the fridge on gas thinking it would get cold while driving, stopped to buy a wrench & checked. Flame was out. Switched over to DC power and it got cold while I was on the road, changed over to gas when I got to my campsite and it worked fine all weekend.
Let's see,,,,now I need an awning...;>)
http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/main.htm
See the contacts section on the website.
Mike L
The AC, DC and gas all do the same thing - supply heat for the refrig to run. If DC and gas both work, then either the AC heater is defective, or the AC wiring is a problem.
Do you have anyway to measure the AC voltage? Does the AC get to the refrig? Is the refrig plugged in? Is the outlet hooked up? Mine has an AC outlet between the refrig and the outer wall, and the refrig plugs into that. Yours may or may not be similar.
I usually run DC when driving and Gas when camped. On the rare occasions that the camper is plugged in, I use AC - usually on use AC at home in the driveway.
We have an awning on the side of the camper. We've only used it 2-3 times, and then mostly to give the camper some shade. We usually have shade on one side of the camper and sit in that. In the middle of day we are either on the road or out doing something.
Mike L
Degree of levelness seems a little more important when running with resistance heat, maybe less circulation of the ammonia. As I have a two-way, I run gas unless plugged into shore power. Almost never have a flameout, even with 80mph travel....
Well, you know what they say - RTFM (Read the Freakin' Manual). I'll take another look at that tonight to see if I can glean any more info from it. I'll post back tomorrow if I find out anything.
Anyone know how to fix the flame out problem?
We have hit 80mph only a few times, mostly cruising at 70 to 75 on the Interstates but often are pushing against a 10-30mph headwind on the way west. I think the ability of the flame to survive depends upon the location of the frig in the camper, the type of air turbulence created by the particular model of truck, etc. When you think about what would happen to a house subjected to winds of up to 100mph (truck speed plus headwind) I guess I'm not surprised at tearing a bit of aluminum.
We run on 12 volt when driving, gas when parked, and on 120 when an outlet is easily available. There is a thermostat at the top of the frig compartment that switches on a "muffin" type fan when the compartment gets too warm. Laurie, you may have heard a fan of this type start up when you plugged in. It should run, no matter what power source you are using as long as the compartment is too warm. Our thermostat was inoperative when we purchased the camper and I replaced it with one that senses air temperature instead of temp in the refrigeration plumbing.
You can check if the fridge is getting power by plugging a lamp or something into its AC outlet. It's possible there is a circuit breaker open.
My fridge is only 2 way so I always run with gas. In all the years I've had it the flame only went out once. You could install a sheetmetal baffle to protect the flame area from direct wind if yours keeps going out. Take a look at the flame and make sure its even and blue. It's common for the feed tube to become partially plugged with spider webs, rust, etc. In that event clearing the junk will probably fix the problem.
OK, ok, I have to buy gas for the truck to generate the 12V. But, I'll bet that having 1 tire 2psi low uses more gas than the refrig does. And the longer I can put off buying propane the better.
With the aux battery, I can run several hours on 12V, so I don't worry much about it if I forget when we stop for lunch or so.
My dad's camper never blows out the refrig flame. Now he has a 27' camper, and I'm sure the air flow is much smoother than our popups, but it never blows out.
My popup didn't have a fan for the cooling coils. It depends on what model of refrig you have. So I added one and some baffling to ensure the air goes through the coils. Helps some on hot days, but it is not needed when we are moving, just when we are stopped.
Mike L
http://outfittermfg.com
The Caribou 8 looks like the ticket for a guy that lives at 7,000' elevation, and likes to camp higher.
Turns out the guy who did my wiring is also a Dometic Warranty repair person, so he'll to hook it up to the c'puter to see if there's a problem with the "computer board" or something I think he called a "K-Valve". He claimed those are the two most common things to go on the units and since the camper is a 2000 model, he thinks I can get it repaired under warranty. Will have it "analysed" next week and see what gives.
We have a small Dometic (~2cf) and it has a hard time cooling down in warm weather. So we always have it on. 12v when driving, gas when parked - even for an hour at lunch. Always try to park with the sun on the other side of the camper.
Mike L