Cabover Campers & Camper Trailers (pickups)

volkej

Vince4 - Hellwig didn’t say whether the new sway bar was better than the old, but the new sway bar has been significantly modified. The arms of the sway bar that extend to the rear of the truck are now inside the shocks rather than outside (no more relocating the emergency brake cable). The adjustable end links connect to the tubular cross member that is in front of and above the spare tire. They use a similar type of u-bolt/saddle bracket arrangement on the cross member and the axle, with the end link connecting to the saddle bracket on the cross member near where the cross member attaches to the frame. It’s a much cleaner installation than the old way and actually looks like it was designed for the truck.

Does the new work any better than the old? Uh......probably not, but I feel better about it because I was worried about frame flex/twist using the old one.

Jheil – I’m not at all dissatisfied with the customer service I’ve received from Four Wheel. They’ve been very responsive and helpful.
I think one of their problems is that their business seems to be booming and, as a result, the pressure is increasing to get those campers out the door. Oftentimes when that happens quality control doesn’t immediately follow. A case in point, albeit a small point, is when holes are drilled through plywood care must be taken to prevent the wood from splintering on the back side. There are methods that can be used to prevent that splintering, but extra time must be taken: that time was not taken in a few instances on my camper. It’s no big deal, but it does show a lack of attention to detail.
Ah well, as they say, you pays your money and you takes your chances.

Mledtje - The top of the Four Wheel sits so close to the bed that you can't leave the bed made up and lower the top. If all you have are sheets it's no problem, but you can't leave anything else up there. I have a feeling over time thats going to be a real pain. Hell, I don't make my bed every day at home, it really irks me that I have to do that in the camper.

Jim

vince4

Thanks for the bar info. It does sound like a better system although the "fixed" frame mounting scheme I have is alright and I don't believe I have any frame flex (I've never really checked though).

I'll drop Hellwig a note and see what they have to say about it.

satch121

I'm having a problem with those rubber bumpers on the front of my camper that meet with the front of the box in the truck. Probably because I have a sprayed in box liner there's so much friction that when I let the camper down into the box the bumpers pull out of the camper. Is there anything I can buy that I could place in the box and forget about the ones in the camper. even when I only drop the camper down one inch the bolts keep bending then eventually the bolts break or pull out.

Thanks for any responses

Ronnie

mledtje

Jim,

I changed the mattress in my camper to a pair of Therma-rest air mattress Camp Rest model. 72" x 25" x 2 or 2.5". We leave a mattress pad, two sheets, a thin blanket and a comforter cover on our bed. We do have to remove the pillows and the comforter (winter only) from the bed.

I understand why other popups have a thick front section, the negatives outweigh the advantages for me.

Ronnie,

Can you just put a 1/4" piece of plywood or a piece of sheetmetal at the front of the bed so the camper doesn't rest against the spray in liner?

The additional piece could be mounted to the front of the bed; size it so it wedges under the front lip of the bed. Be sure and leave some sort of an opening that you can grip the piece to remove it when you don't have the camper on board.

Mike L

vince4

I have the same problem with my Lance however the damage is caused by a metal bar that goes across the front to strengthen the Happijac brackets.

What I do (when I remember) is to not back all the way up when putting the camper on, lower the camper almost all the way down, then back up the final amount and let the camper all the way down. The reverse must be done when taking it off. I've forgotten enough times that the screw holes are 80% stripped out.

If you want to abandon the bumpers completely you just need to come up with something to sit in the bottom of the bed that will stop the camper from coming forward. My old camper didn't have bumpers so I built a bed protection board. I used a sheet of plywood about the width of the bed and a little higher. At one long edge I screwed a 2x4. Then the board sat vertical between the camper and the front wall of the bed, with the 2x4 at the bottom and pointing toward the front. That way the 2x4 took up the extra space between the plywood and the front (bottom) of the bed caused by the sheetmetal lip at the top of the bed wall. I attached some padding to the camper side of the board to protect the camper finish. You could also glue some carpet on the front if you're worried about the truck paint.

This worked well and prevented the camper from sliding forward and bending the top of the bed. Unfortunately I didn't know I needed this until I slammed the brakes once and the camper bent the bed all the way to the cab! Don't go without some sort of bumper to stop this from happening, the bed wall is really not very strong.

blawless

for the old, stepped-on-the-brakes-and-bent-the-front-of-the-bed thing.

mledtje

Hey Jim,

How thick is the standard 4Wheel mattress? Is it just a block of foam (like my Phoenix had), or is it more comfortable than that?

Our camper came with a block of foam that was 4" thick. And the top wouldn't close completely. When we bought the air mattresses I had to readjust the front latches because the top went down another 3/4" to the stops. Like I said, we have plenty of room to leave the bed made - and as a bonus - the ThermaRest mattresses are more comfortable than the foam blocks.

Mike L

volkej

Mledtje - It’s a 4” block of medium quality foam. After sleeping on it the first night I thought I was going to be permanently disabled. I only walk with a slight limp now and I'm able to straighten up all the way - I think I'll have a full recovery.
I went to a shop that sold foam and priced the highest quality foam (there’s a significant difference in the quality of foam) - $128 to replace the mattress; I haven’t done it yet. I was also considering a 2” high quality foam mattress and then topping that with one of those egg crate foam things. That should allow me to leave the sheets and a down comforter on the bed while still having some degree of comfort.

Jim
"Lie? Me? Never! No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun!" - Captain Hook

vince4

Oh yah, I had a perfect camper-shaped indentation in the bed wall. I pulled it straight with a come-along but the dimples never left. And that was on a 1970 Dodge which had a pretty strong body.

mledtje

Jim,

I don't know if you have ever slept on a ThermaRest air mattress, but they are quite comfortable. They are a foam pad inside an air mattress shell. The foam pad makes it self inflating, and offers some insulation (the therma part of the name). I let the mattress fill, then lay (on my side) on it and release air until my hip is firmly down, then close the air valve. That way the foam and the air and the ground all support my weight.

Before we bought this camper we had motorcycle/tent camped for 30 years, and the ThermaRest mattress is the most comfortable mattress we've ever used for camping. And it works equally well in the camper. I believe it is as comfortable as the $1000 mattress we have at home. Best of all, I never wake up with a backache from it.

The ThermaRest website is down, but the are available at most camping/sporting goods stores. They can be expensive if you buy the best (CampRest LE) in a 2 or 2.5" thickness. We spent about $200 for our two mattresses. They fit our space within 0.5". Measure yours, and check available sizes at:

http://www.vtarmynavy.com/thermarest.htm

I don't think you would ever regret buying one (or two). The only drawback we've found is when you change altitude, the air pressure inside the mattress needs to be changed also.

Later,

Mike L

markbuck

for car type camping are what the river runners use. Called "paco pads" amongst other things. I use one for car camping and river trips. Avail from NW river supply and such. Extrememly tough...

I do own a couple of 3/4 lenth lightweight Thermorests and a couple big blue closed cell foam ensolite pads.

But the "super paco pad" is by far the best.

http://www.altrec.com/shop/detail/3991

markbuck

Looks like they make an even bigger one, now. Now I have paco pad envy. I've slept on mine probably 80 nights over the last 10 years, and I just huck it in the back of my PU bed with all the sharp stuff. Made of the same material as they make the big ol commercial rafts. No tears thus far....


http://www.altrec.com/shop/detail/6343/

caveman3

Has anyone had any experience with camper guides that makes loading to center of truck easier and to keep camper from sliding side to side? these mount in the bed of the truck. I have a Lance on order and should be in any day now.

skeen

I am planning on purchasing one of the new GMC HD crewcab short beds. I want to use if for a cabover and a commuter truck. I am leaning towards the 3/4 ton. Should I get the 1 ton for cabover reasons? Opinions appreciated.
TIA

markbuck

I sure would consider LB.

The 9200 GVWR 2500HD are dang close to 1-tons of old days in terms of capacity.

If going diesel, go 1 ton....

mledtje

You can always mount a longbed camper on a short bed truck, assuming you have the load capacity and rear axle capacity to carry the camper. When I've seen this done, the tailgate was left installed, but in the down position to help support the camper. Then you don't have that extra long truck when the camper off.

I always recommend against a diesel unless you need the torque to pull a big trailer.

My reasoning for not recommending a diesel?

- It takes 100-150K miles to pay for the option with fuel savings
- The engine is so heavy that you lose significant load capacity
- The heavy engine detracts from on road and off road handling

Mike L

pistolero

I'd be very careful before even thinking of doing this. It MIGHT work with a pop-up, but most hard sided campers have a designated center of gravity which is matched for the truck they are built for. The truck cert's, at least Ford's for sure, prescribe where the center of gravity has to be in order to meet certification. Normally the heaviest portion of a long hard sider is in the rear, I wouldn't want my tailgate trying to support that much weight. Check with the experts to be sure, if you can find an unbiased one not trying to make a sale. Some salespeople are prone to assuring people their 3/4 ton can carry a 3500 lb camper too, it can, but no way within GVWR.

vince4

You did a good job on that step Mike. You should put a price on it and take orders over the web!

vince4

I can see why you would want a short bed since the crew cab will already be long. You should plan on using a camper meant for a SB truck. This limits the selection but there are still plenty available.

I suspect Mike is right about the low weight capacity. Some of the capacity is used up with the extra doors and then GM has to make the camper rating even lower to accommodate filling up that cab with people. If you want a full blown hardside like a Lance and you'll have people in all the seats, you should go for the 1-ton. A camper like that weighs 2500-3000lbs. If you plan on having something lighter then the 3/4 should do fine.

vince4

I've never seen the camper guides in real life. They sound like a good idea so I'm surprised they aren't more common. The two concerns I would have are

1) If they interfere with cargo when the camper is off.

2) Having to drill holes in the bed of the truck where exposure to water could lead to rust.

If you end up using them please let us know. I'd love to see a picture.

mledtje

I tapered some 2x4's and attached them where they would contact the wheel wells and center the camper. Now, when I back under the camper, it centers itself within 1/2". When the camper is up, the legs are flexible enough for it to guide itself. Then when I lower it, I push it closer to the center of the bed. So, I don't have any marks on the wheel wells from the guides.

Mike L

skeen

Thanks to all who responded. I am still leaning towards the 3/4 ton crew cab short box 2001 gmc.
I look at it as the ultimate SUV. A lot of the mfg'r are making slide ins for short box. I will probably go w/ a lighter/smaller 8.5 slide in. I will be using the truck as a daily commuter and occasional cross country RV w/ a family of 4.
My next question is an all important one. SAFTEY.
What is the legality of passengers IN the camper on the hyways/byways?

link
http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2001/gmc/hd/hd_upclose.html

mledtje

Is illegal in any state that has a seat belt law. May still be illegal if you install seat belts and insist on the use of them.

Is unsafe in any accident. Almost any accident will send alot of misc stuff flying around inside a camper. Sodas, cans of food, table tops, silverware, refrig contents, gameboys, and more. Not a place I would want to be, nor a place I would want anyone I care about to be in an accident. Stuff can be replaced, insurance will replace your truck and camper (you did tell them you had a camper?), but nothing will replace a loved one.

From the above, you can guess my feelings on the subject. Feelings that are not shared by all.

Mike L

markbuck

As mentioned before, check the allowable range of cg's in the short bed PU, then compare the cg of a couple of 8.5' light campers. I think you will find that most violate the for/aft cg rule which can lead to severe sway problems.

MikeL is dead on riding in campers/travel trailers. Ever see one after an accident? The look worse than mobile homes that have been thru F5 tornado's....

skeen

Mike and Mark, thank you for your responses.
I agree w/ you to some extent.

After a little more research I came across the following page.
NY is the only state which forbids riding in a P/U camper.
I was very surprised that some states allow riders in trailers!

http://www.rvsafety.com/Passenger%20Laws.htm

mledtje

I didn't see any mention of seatbelts on that website. At least in CA it is clear, any passenger in a motor vehicle must have a seatbelt fastened.

Children have special requirements, but an adult can't even ride in the bed of a PU unless they have a seatbelt fastened.

I suspect you would have to add seatbelts to allow someone to ride in the back.

Still I wouldn't do it or allow it.

Mike L

caveman3

Camping world has them in stock, so will check on them , as soon as the camper comes in . 2x4's that Mike uses sounds like a good idea and a lot cheaper , although I was quoited a price around $32. There are 4 pieces to the kit , two 8 to 10 inches from front of bed and two as far to the rear as possible.

Brutus

I'd be cautious about putting a camper designed for a long bed truck in a short bed truck. However, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they make short bed campers that are longer than 6.5'. Just because you see a camper sticking out the back of the short bed truck doesn't necessarily mean it was designed for a long bed truck. My camper is almost 11', so it sticks out of my long bed truck by about 3'. It's all a matter of the center of gravity. A 8.5' camper designed for a long bed truck may have an unacceptable center of gravity for a short bed truck, whereas an 8.5' short bed camper (if they make them) will work fine.

Judging from that website, it appears that the seatbelt rule doesn't apply to truck campers, with the exception of CA and NY. We have a mandatory seatbelt law in Alaska and I'm pretty sure that you can have passengers in the truck camper, but I'm not positive. I've never done it. I'd have some concerns with kids riding in the camper because of the safety issues in the event of an accident. However, adults have the capacity to know the risks, so if it's legal, I wouldn't think less of someone who permitted adults in the camper. But like I said, to this point, I've never had anyone in the camper when I'm driving.

Another thing that I would add is that I've traveled quite a bit in Class A motorhomes. There are certain seats that have seat belts, but passengers are rarely in their belts other than the driver and the shotgun passenger. Everyone is always milling about, using the restrooms, grabbing a soda from the frig, making lunch, taking naps or playing games. It's really no different with a truck camper as long as you have audio contact with the camper, maybe by something as simple as cheap walkie-talkies.

Brutus

P.S.

I'd be interested to see some accident/injury stats from people riding in camper and motorhomes. The campers look pretty thrashed, but I wouldn't be interested to see how common the accidents are, and how severe the injuries are, and how many fatalities there are that can be blamed on the person being in the camper. Alot of times, those real nasty looking accidents involve fatalities and serious injury to the people in the truck as well. I'm not advocating riding in the camper and don't do it. I'm just curious if it is really a significant concern or more of a perceived concern by those of us who have seen the aftermath of a camper accident.

oltroll1

I put an AM FM stereo in my camper this weekend. It works fine until I plug the 110v ac line in and then it's like the antenna is unpluged. The tape player works fine, so it's not a power problem, it just looses all reception. Anyone have any ideas why?
Thanks

volkej

Oltroll1 – Interesting problem. It sounds that it may have something to do with your converter. The radio has to run off the battery and not the converter. When you plug in the AC power the converter should switch power from the battery to the converter. Check the voltage levels at the radio before and after you connect the AC power. The tape player may work with a different voltage range than the radio – you may be able to determine that from the documents that came with your radio.
Try connecting the radio directly to the battery and see what happens when you connect the AC power.

Jim

oltroll1

You were right. After trying numerous things I called the converter maker. They had never had a situation like this but told me what to check. After I did their checks ; they decided that it must be a bad converter. They are sending a new one out today for me to install. That should be a load of fun!! The radio was already connected directly to the camper battery.
Thanks for the help.

vince4

I'm curious to hear if the converter fixes the problem. What type of checks did they have you make? Was it a wrong voltage problem or some sort of electrical noise?

vince4

I'll tell my repair story in case it helps anyone.

I have a '91 Lance with a Thetford toilet. It had two problems, a small leak when I ran a high pressure garden hose down the top, and the fresh water flush stopped flowing. I had to cut a 1/2 inch wrench in half to make a tool short enough to get one of the bolts loose. After that removal was easy.

The leak is due to an old seal I'm sure. It's just a foam ring that goes around the bottom opening. I'll head to the RV store tomorrow for a new one. The flow problem was due to junk buildup in the water valve outlet. You have to pull the valve to see this. It was full of granular debris and what looked like small rocks?? After cleaning it works fine. I look forward to a good WHOOSH now!

vince4

Well I did it. I ordered electric jacks for the camper. I decided it would be a quality of life improvement and therefore worth the expense. Anyway we had a good profit sharing term at work so what the heck. And I figured if you're going to do it you might as well go all the way so I ordered the wireless remote controller too. I must admit the idea of pushing a button to lift the camper is pretty sweet after years of pumping and cranking.

Does anyone have any good ideas for the wiring on a camper not equipped for it? Somewhere I have to penetrate the outer wall and I don't want seal problems. I'm thinking about doing it from underneath. But then the wire has to be run along the outside a ways. Maybe use small white PVC pipe as a conduit?

Anyone want to purchase a set of hydraulic jacks?

vince4

I'm on a roll tonight. Actually I'm getting around to some camper work I've wanted to do for a long time.

The water pump in my camper is annoyingly loud and I want to quiet it a bit. A big part of the problem is that it's mounted to the structure with minimum isolation so the entire sink/counter area becomes a sounding board. I want to isolate the pump from the wood framing better; anyone have any ideas? I'm thinking of rubber isolation somehow, like motor mounts but not so stiff.

oltroll1

The first check was to make sure the + & - were not crossed. Then voltage--12.7 on battery and 13.8 on converter; next, antenna shorted; then an earth ground on camper while not pluged in to see if camper was acting as an antenna; passed all of these. The final check was to remove the 30 amp main DC fuse -plug in the shore power and try the radio. With this done the radio worked fine. According to (LEE factory service rep.) this would tell if AC power was feeding back into the unit. His theory was that it was noise coming from the unit. I also tried two different filters that made no difference.

mledtje

I would run exterior wiring. But, I would probably just run Romex. Romex is already double insulated, so some insulated staples should be enough to tack it down. Be sure and put a big fuse in the line to prevent distaster.

My pump has rubber mounts under it, and it still makes more noise than anything else in the camper. If you can't find some acceptable rubber mounts, give me a call and I'll see if I can scare some up. It's amazing what is hiding in my barn.

Mike L

mictro

Let me first ask, where are you located? I'm in the PNW (Seattle area) and would like to know if it would even be feasible to check out the jacks.

-Mictro

mledtje

Vince lives in the San Jose, CA area.

You ever come down this way?

Mike L

mledtje

Another thought comes to mind - what if you made a wiring harness for the jacks, but did not attach it to the camper?

Only hook it up when you want to use it. You would have to carry it with your camper, but not attached - no holes, no worries!

Mike L

stabbur

Our pump sits on rubber grommets next to the water tank inside a large compartment that has a sticker on the wall "This is not a storage compartment". It is reasonably quiet, but all that space going to waste bothered me. I enclosed the pump in a box made of some old heating grillwork and we use the remaining space to store 6-8 pairs of sneakers, hiking boots,river shoes, etc, a toaster oven, and anything else that won't fit elsewhere. Shoes are better than acoustic tile. It sure is quiet and, so far, we have had no problem with overheating. There are 2-3 inches of air on all sides of the pump.

vince4

for all the feedback. I just looked at the pump more closely and found that it is bolted directly to the wall under the sink, no isolation. There is room for an Oreo plate, wood on each side and rubber in the middle. Mike I dug in my Junk drawer and found two vibration mounts--1" dia. 3/4" long rubber cylinder with a stud on each end. If only I had 3 I could do it. Do you have anything to use as the third leg?

stabbur, a toaster oven? That must have been a big storage area! I kept wood for leveling in the space around the water tank in my old camper. The Lance has that compartment sealed off. If my mounting fix isn't enough I'll be sure to give your method a try and stuff the sink cabinet with shoes.

I got my electric jacks today. I ended up picking them up at the retail store for the internet price and saved the shipping (and the day off work to wait for the truck--no UPS). The mounting kit comes with some connectors so I'll see if the manufacturer already thought about my situation. The Romex idea is good, I'll use that where it doesn't show. But if I have to run wires along the outside I want it to be a bit more polished. The big no on the removable harness. My constant goal is to create less things to touch while transferring the camper since I do it frequently. More to come...

The toilet is done successfully. Thetford only uses one seal on all their products so it was no problem to find. I wish more things were made that way.

oltroll1, those tests they had you do are reasonable. I hope the new unit fixes the problem.

vince4

As Mike said, I live in the SF Bay Area. The shipping on the new ones was to be by truck and cost $70. I don't know if I could ship them for the same price. Probably we could get Road Warrior Mike to drive them up there. How about it Mike, do you have cabin fever yet?

If you're interested I can take some photos.

Vince

mledtje

But, we're committed to driving to Iowa this summer. Last year, my dad said he had never been to the Henry Ford Museum, but really wanted to go. But he'll never drive that far (800 miles) by himself again (he is 78, and drives a Silverado pulling a 6000 lb travel trailer). So I will drive out and go to Detroit with him.

Vince, you should read that WWII Diary I gave to Atilla. It is always hard to realize what those guys (WWII soldiers, like my dad)went through to keep us a free (welll, not free from lawyers) country. We owe them a debt we can never repay! Driving 2000 miles to go to Detroit with my dad is only a small token.

And, by the way, the short term cure for cabin fever is located in Death Valley. And that is only 27 days away!!!!

Mike L

akjbmw

vince4

If you have the time and interest... Look for similar mounts used on cars. The air cleaner on late 60's to mid '70s and probably beyond BMWs were mounted with an isolation mount like that. The transmission and shift lever mount had one too. Bet others use 'em too. Had to do something about those 4-banger vibes. They were good vibes, but too much of a good thing....

mledtje

I'm sure I have something that can be made to work. At the very worst, a rubber gas tank mount from a BMW MC. Or some rubber isolators for electronic equipment.

If you want to come by this weekend, we will compare to what you have and find something that will work.

Mike L

vince4

I'll not get to the water pump project for a little while because I'm doing the jacks now. It's a decent size job installing them on a non-wired camper. The $140 installation kit doesn't come with any wire or even a circuit breaker so I have to buy more stuff. I mounted the "remote control unit enable switch" tonight. Once you hit that switch, the controller will work for 10 minutes. Next will be to mount the controller and run some #8 wire between it and the battery.

I'll come over to search your junk box eventually Mike, unless I find something in the meantime. If you are out there anyway take a look for something suitable. How about at work?

mledtje

Vince, I expect to be out in the shop this weekend, I'll look for a suitable mount. Hopefully, I'll find two or three and you can choose between them.

Mike L

coolcontractor

Hey Vince,
As far as wiring to ANYTHING on a vehicle,
I would suggest stranded wire as opposed
to ROMEX. Romex is made with solid copper
wire and will tend to stiffen then break with
use and vibration. Anyone have a comparison
of campers. Kind of a CONSUMERS REPORT sort
of thing. I am picking up a '01 SD 4x4 short
bed and am looking for a pop-up camper.
Thanks,
Later