You guys on the West coast missed a really good look at the space shuttle last night. Several of us went to the beach and got a really good look as it passed by. It's one of the things that gets less mpg than my Ram. They said it was burning 1,000 lbs. per second when it came over! I got my new converter today. After about an hr. it was in but not working!! It didn't have any 12v output. Called the factory and they are sending another one tomorrow. Just my luck. Do any of you use lp catalytic heaters? If so; how well do they work. I'm thinking of getting one. With my luck, the darn thing will probably COOL rather than heat. Coolcontractor---I have a Sun Lite Eagle SB and like it (pop-up}. Will give you more info if you want it.
Never seen a comparison test. Everything I've seen is either an owner's opinion (biased) or a factory website (biased).
Check the carrying capacity of you truck, subtract the weight of all the people you will carry and gear and food, etc. For us, two people (325 lbs), gear, food, water, etc. all adds up to 800lbs. Yours may be higher. Estimate high and you may get closer! After that, subtract the weight you have used from the available capacity to find a maximum camper weight. Then check if the manufacturer has a max. camper weight rating for your truck. Try not to exceed the smaller of those two numbers.
Then check out the websites for the various factories for specs, options, floor plans, etc.
Try and decide what you need, want, and want to avoid in a popup. And which models look like they will work for you. Check into local delivery. Some are factory only, or big bucks for delivery and setup.
Then ask the factories for local owners that you can talk to. And maybe even see the campers, how the roof goes up/down. Storage space inside. Talk to the owners. Maybe you can narrow your choices down that way.
A good friend that I take long canoe trips with is a VP of Consumers Union, the publisher of Consumer Reports. He has been interested in our experiences with our Sunlite pop top and has listened to my estimates of how much money is spent each year on RV's in this country. We discussed various options that could be pursued if Consumer's Union decided to proceed with some kind of review. I expressed the view that the majority of RV's were built by guys who had a metal building, a table saw and an air stapler, and that the universe to be tested was simply too large to make an across the board comparison feasible. Because nearly all of them depend upon a few suppliers for refrigerators, hot water heaters, furnaces, electrical converters, etc. I suggested that Consumers Union should do a piece on RV components, indicating the plus and minus of each type and company.
He emailed me a few weeks back to say that they will be doing a project on RVs. I don't know what they will come up with - we'll have to wait until we see the article when it comes out. I doubt that it will be of any great help in rating slide-in campers, however, and pop tops are just a small percentage of the slide-ins.
A skim of ice across the whole Connecticut River this morning. Camper is in its shed.
For info on popups you should scan all the previous posts. We talked about some in detail.
I ended up using #10 stranded copper wire to do the jacks. I'm glad I did because Romex is too big and stiff to work with in tight quarters.
I spent all weekend and now have the jacks on and wired to one location. Still need to connect the wires to the control unit, clean up some routing, and seal all the holes. Some parts of this job were pretty tricky. Like drilling into 1" of free space next to the water tank, from the outside. Get that one wrong and you've got a major problem. The left rear jack is next to the water heater and the sewer hose storage compartment. There was no place to put the connector because the cable from the jack motor is short. I ended up putting the connector INSIDE the sewer hose compartment. It took some creative cutting but worked well in the end. Another few evenings and it will be done.
Take a look at and around post #70 for some comments on catalytic heaters. I think it would be a good choice for a popup where you don't have as much insulation. In that case the furnace must be on more often and it gets cold between cycles. With the catalytic you just need to keep a few windows open a little, which is no problem because those heaters really crank.
I purchased a shell model camper and am currently in the process of completing the interior. I’ve picked up a number of catalogs for RV parts and have also received a couple of catalogs for marine parts. Quite a few of the same parts are sold in both types of catalogs – primarily appliances, sinks, faucets, and related stuff. There are items that are sold in the marine catalogs that are not sold in the RV catalogs, but would work in an RV.
In your opinions am I making an erroneous assumption that the marine equipment would be of higher quality than RV equipment? My thinking is that, given the environment that boats exist in, they would require sturdier, better built equipment. If something on my camper breaks I can easily drive somewhere to fix it or get it fixed; that wouldn’t always be the case on a boat.
It will be interesting to see what type of report Consumer Reports does on RVs. This is an industry that’s crying for someone to do the type of reporting that Consumer Reports produces.
It appears to me that magazines that purport to do evaluations of equipment are merely acting as shills for the manufacturers; they rarely, if ever, find anything negative about any of the things they evaluate. After all, we can’t lose any advertising dollars can we?
I would think that boats that have plumbing and appliances would generally be more expensive than camper, and boaters would want better quality stuff for the money they spend.
I put a plastic sink faucet in my camper, and it was a step up from the POS that was originally installed. I'd really be upset if I was 200 miles from shore when I discovered that!
I'd also agree with your supposition as a general rule, however you need to evaluate each item case-by-case. I would expect the marine equipment to be more expensive in any case. Much of the RV stuff is very functional and reliable even if it isn't the slickest execution. My camper is almost 10 years old and as far as I know the water heater and furnace are original.
The marine appliances may be smaller, which would help preserve living space in your camper.
I finally finished the electric jack installation! Whew. It was a fun job because I knew what awaited me in the end. I'm happy to say it was a resounding success. The jacks work great, are more stable, and even weigh a little less than the old ones.
I chose the wireless remote version. I recommend it not only because it's handy, but also for the ability to run all four jacks at the same time. The manual version has a switch on each jack.
Nice job, glad i ordered my lance with electric jacks, Almost ordered without electric jacks, but salesman talked me into it . said better resale value and for ease of operation. it sure is a lot easier to load and unload. was wondering why you don't lower it more to the ground?
All that work so you can offload the camper in DV and not have to carry Bertha around?
Could be a good idea!
Do you have some 1' square plywood pieces so the feet don't sink into the sand at DV? It depends on the campground. The one that I suggested at Furnace Creek is hardpacked dirt, not sand. But, others are paved or sand.
I don't leave the camper like that, I just took the picture with it raised part way to show the jacks better. I store it almost all the way down on a wood support I built (can see in the photo) in the front, and all the way down in the back. Then it's almost level in my slanted driveway. I put some old ramps under the front when raising or lowering to reduce the extension of the front jacks and make the contact surface a little more level.
No Mike, DV wasn't my motivation for the jacks although I'm glad to have it done before we go. I've been meaning to cut some plywood footing squares but haven't done it. Last time I dropped it in the forest I used flat rocks from a creek bed. It didn't work very well. The new jacks have a bigger foot, about 5" diameter, so I won't need a footer most of the time.
Now that the jacks are done I can go on to the water pump project. After that, two more projects and I'm done. Mike I need to come by this week and check out the rubber mounts you found.
I am definately interested in buying your jacks. The only problem I see is that you are in California and I'm in Washington. I can't imagine it would be very cost effective to ship those jacks. Do you have any plans to be up in the Seattle area between now and spring?
Couple of questions. How old are the jacks? Have you had any problems with them leaking fluid?
If you would like to take this discussion offline, my email address is up to date in my profile.
No plans to visit your area. However I just checked UPS for an estimated price to ship them and it comes to around $20 each, shipped separately or in pairs. That's not so bad. In my web searching I found new ones for $440 to $520 for a set of 4, shipping not included.
Looks like a very nice job. I'm curious. If you start the jack motors when the camper is level, does it stay level without adjustment or does it require some fine tuning with the remote?
It's so cool, you push the button and the camper moves straight up, staying level as it goes. I've only used it once so far but I'd say they have the speed well matched between jacks. Since my driveway is tilted, the load on the front jacks is way more than usual but the front & rear still rise at the same rate. I'll learn more as I use them. One thing I have noticed is that they are longer when retracted than the old ones.
They recommend (but don't supply) a 40 amp breaker for the main feed. I used a 30 amp because it's all the local auto store had. So far it has not tripped so that gives some indication of the current requirement. I'll measure the actual current some day just to satisfy my curiosity.
#237 of 245: Lite Craft Campers (live2ski) Thu 14 Dec '00 (08:31 PM)
I have been researching pop-up campers for a few months. I like the 4-Wheel Camper and the Lite Craft Camper (Although I have never seen one up close in person). I have read several postings regarding 4-Wheel Campers. Does anyone know about the Lite Craft?
I am interested in using my future camper in cold weather. How do these type of units perform in freezing weather. Is the fresh H20 system insulated, or is it useless in sub-freezing temps?
It also appears that I should opt for a ceramic type heater as opposed to the fan blown furnace. Does the ceramic heater give off fumes that smell up the interior?
Thanks for your help!
#238 of 245: Heater (vince4) Thu 14 Dec '00 (09:43 PM)
I've had a catalytic heater and it did have a very slight odor but not bad at all. Out there the heat feels so good, you don't care if it smells like a goat. Just leave a roof vent and window open a little and it will work fine. It's by far the most efficient heater you can choose.
#239 of 245: Pop-ups... (jheil) Fri 15 Dec '00 (01:33 AM)
Live2Ski,
If you scroll back to message 155 or so there are some very informed responses to query I made about pop-ups by Mike L, Jim, Vince and others. They should give you quite a bit of info to think about.
In repsonse to your query about Litecraft... I stopped at their factory north of Denver Colorado about 3 months ago. I also stopped and visited Phoenix pop-ups at the same time. They too, are in the Denver area. I was able to look at a couple of the Litecrafts. I felt quality was a little better than Phoenix but I'm an UNinformed future buyer of my first ever pop-up. I was just going by what my general thump on the walls and kick the tires impressions were.
I do know that even though it might be expensive to do I will visit all the showrooms of all the campers I am considering before making a final decision (FourWheel, Phoenix, Litecraft). A purchase of $10,000. makes me justify a nice road trip.
Good luck and please let us know what you finally decide on.
Best regards, Joe
#240 of 245: converter/cat. heater (oltroll1) Fri 15 Dec '00 (05:49 AM)
I finally got a converter that works and doesn't have noise in it. The factory rep. still doesn't know why the old one put out interference. I talked with a rep. from US cat. heaters this week. The clearance for their heaters is 4" on the sides ,18" above and 30" in front. The 30" in front presents a problem. I would have to make it a portable one on legs and only have one choice as to where to put it. Anyone ever had one with less clearance?
#241 of 245: fan blown furnace - yes (markbuck) Fri 15 Dec '00 (11:33 AM)
Yawl can do what you want, but I kinda like heating systems that exhaust the combustions products OUTSIDE the area being heated, at least if you want to heat spaces that will be occupied by living things.
#242 of 245: Heaters (vince4) Sun 17 Dec '00 (12:17 AM)
Markbuck I also like the idea of a vented heater and would select a furnace for a hardside with plenty of battery reserve. But for a popup with less insulation and maybe less battery and propane reserves I wouldn't hesitate to put in a catalytic. They burn much cleaner than the burner in a furnace so have less byproducts to vent in the first place.
oltroll1, I don't like the idea of a freestanding heater. It's a hassle to deal with and sounds like a safety hazard. What if it fell over? I'd say the 30" clearance is important for flammable items like fabric, but I wouldn't worry about a wood wall or something being a little closer. Where are you thinking of putting it, and what is too close?
The only place to put it would be on the counter above the re. or by the stove with the camper pope-up. If I mounted it it would be about 26" from the fabric on the sofa.
If you mounted it would it be in one of those locations or were those both for the free-standing installation?
If the mounting location doesn't have any other problems I would mount it. 26" is a little close but is not really a problem. First, even if you set it on high I doubt the fabric would get anywhere near hot enough to ignite. More importantly, you will be in the camper and you have control over the temperature. If you can't run it on high safely then don't. You could also obtain an insulating throw to drape over the fabric when the heater is in use. My heater had quite a range of output; on high it would glow red a little and on low it was just warm.
Yesterday I thought I posted a piece on camper heat, but I don't find it today. I wonder if it got lost in the change of software. Anybody see it? I'll redo it if necessary.
I was interested to read the information furnished by Alaska campers on their new model. I interpret the limited description as indicating that heat is provided by some kind of hot water radiator with heat supplied by the hot water heater. There would be certain advantages of this. First, there could be a space savings probably because a small radiator and fan would replace the bulk of the combustion chamber and within unit clearances needed for a gas hot air furnace. Second, the electrical load required to move the combustion air in and exhaust the fumes would be eliminated. The hot water heater requires no fan. On the other hand, there would need to be a small circulating pump and that would take some power.
I find that there is plenty of heating capacity in our heater and stealing some heat from it would not cause a problem except during times of heavy demand. It seldom requires firing except when hot water is running. It stays quite warm on the pilot ligh alone. This is because the burner is designed for a fast recovery time when the hot water is depleted. I could see a system where radiant coils were located in the floor of the camper taking little space and providing real comfort on a cold morning. Also the coils could take a turn or two around a holding tank. There might be a need for a hot water to air exchanger for fast warm up, since radiant heat would probably come up more slowly. The hot water to air component could be obtained from any junk car heater. Because the water heater temp is usually set at 140 degrees so that people will not be scalded and most radiation/radiators are rated for capacity at 180 degrees or so, whatever heat exchanger is used should be downrated a bit.
I have a brochure from Webasto Thermosystems that makes a diesel fired hot water heater that is sold for large diesel trucks. It is used for engine warm-up and to keep sleeper cab temps in acceptable range. That way the truck engine does not have to idle all the time the driver is sleeping. It is expensive and bulky for camper use, however, and most of us already have a hot water heater. It also uses enough battery for the pumps and oil burner so that a battery pack is included. (Using the camper hot water heater to warm the pickup engine at very low temps is probably not a good idea because of the toxicity of engine antifreeze, even if a water to water heat exchanger was put in the system.)
If a small propane or gasoline fired boiler were connected to flexible piping, it could be placed on the ground while the camper was parked. That way there would be enough vertical height in the system so that a thermosiphon would be possible. Then there would be no need for a pump or battery, and the boiler would run as long as there was fuel. These possible systems would have to be appropriate safety relief valving and provisions for expansion.
Well, this is a good way to spend a winter evening. Lots of new snow here.
That's a great idea. I like the hot water method even with the pump. The flow is low so the pump could be small. This type of heating is best for a low background trickle heat to maintain temperature. For a quick blast a conventional heater would be better. I like the idea because it's constant, quiet, and clean.
That's a great idea! A small peristaltic pump could supply enough flow for the heater. And piping in the floor would heat evenly without a fan, and no more cold floor!!
I need to file that idea away for when I make my own, perfect camper with none of the problems/comprimises of commercial products. Yah, like all the other 'projects' that never happen.
Happy holidays! I need to be educated. I am going through the decision process on several pop-up truck campers. All have an H2O tank and sink but no holding tank. I've yet to ask a dealer how this works. Can someone tell me where the sink water drains and any tips?
My sink drain is beside the fresh water intake. I screw a short section of old water hose to it and either drain it into a hole in the ground or a bucket and dump it into a dump station at the camp ground.
When we are tent camping in the east or midwest we dump the washwater into the sink in those campgrounds where dishwashing facilities are provided. When they are not available we carry it to the dump station or it goes into the deep woods or deep weeds. If food is strained out this disposal does not alter the environment significantly as long as there is enough space available to dilute the stuff that other campers are dumping. On desert rivers the dishwater is strained to remove food particles and goes into the river since a dishpan of water on the desert is a significant change in the local ecology. With a camper draining into a bucket the same method is used.
If you hook up a hose to the sink drain on a camper and run the hose into the woods, weeds or desert river there is generally hell to pay, however, even though the end of the hose is exactly where one would empty the bucket. I think this is because just the sight of the hose upsets human sensibilities - we are simply biased against pipes and hoses. It is true that a hose can carry a lot more water than most people feel like transporting a bucket at a time. Also true that one cannot see what is going through the hose until it comes out the end - which is too late to do much about. On the other hand, alot of the stainless steel in our camper kitchen drawer is stuff we have pulled out of various rivers where people have emptied their dishwater (and their utensils at the same time).
The gray water tank on our pop top is one of its most convenient features. It saves us a lot of time as we clean up the dishes and ourselves and allows us to get rid of the gray water in a way that is both ecologically sound and does not offend the sensitivities of those with a bias against hoses. To get a gray water holding tank you pretty much have to go to a 10 foot pop up, however. Some company should make a flexible collapsible gray water holding tank that could be connected to the sink drain of an 8 foot pop top and stuffed into the space along side the fender well. That way one could have a 10 gallon tank on board and drain it at dump stations.
My last camper didn't have a gray tank so I used a 5 gal collapsible water jug. You can buy them at a camping store, they are meant for holding fresh water. It had a handle for carrying when full and smashed nicely when empty for storage in a compartment. You don't want any larger than 5 gal because it's too hard to carry when full. They also sell those blue rigid tanks with wheels which are very nice but kind of big to carry. I used to think about building a compartment under the truck for that type of tank but never did.
It is illegal to discharge gray water onto the ground from the camper. Of course it's okay if you are tent camping and dump the same water on the same ground. Go figure. So I would drain into my jug, which satisfied the rangers even though there was nowhere in camp to dump the jug except on the ground. Some (few) campgrounds have waste water drains, or if the bathrooms use flushies you can always empty it there.
I recently had to pull the toilet and clear the clogged fresh water line of debris. It had a build up of granular stuff, like little rocks. On the next trip it clogged again after a few days. I was able to fiddle with it and get it working, at which time it shot out more granular material into the bowl. Obviously the water system needed flushing.
I just returned from that trip and flushed the system. Wow, I can't believe the quantity of junk I got out of there. The water heater is the culprit I'm sure. This is an important task to carry out once or twice a year.
You need to power flush the system, just draining it isn't enough. Also, the portion to treat is after the pump, not the fresh water tank. I connected a garden hose to the city water inlet for a high pressure water source. Then opened the drain valve on the water heater and removed the cap on the system drain hose (my camper has a drain hose near the dump plumbing).
Water shot out of both, it was full of calcium (?) deposits (my granuals) and a little rust. I used a compressed air source and blew into each outlet just to add more pressure and turbulence. You could get away without that if you don't have a compressor. Be prepared to get wet! My shirt was covered with calcium granuals after being soaked by the stream leaving the water heater.
I was shocked by the amount of junk in the system. My camper is 9 years old and has probably never been flushed in this way. I recommend you do it more often than that.
Between Christmas and New Year's took a little trip down to Death Valley with Vince.
We traveled on some nasty roads (1-2 mph speeds) and some OK dirt roads (10-20 mph). Camped out on Goler Wash near the Barker Ranch (where Charles Manson was captured). And again up Johnson Canyon on a slope so steep we had a difficult time getting level. Dig 6" holes under the front tires and 6-10" of rocks and 2x6s under the rears. Vince just backed in and let all the air out of the air lift and about 4-8" under the fronts.
I've got some pictures of Vince coming down some slopes going into Titus Canyon. I'll post them where everyone can see them when I bring them to work.
Weather was good, days 60's, nights mostly 20's and 30's. One morning the curtains were frozen to the side window for an hour after we turned the heat on in the morning.
We wandered out to Darwin Falls - 30 foot waterfall in the middle of the desert!!!
Death Valley is a great place, plenty of 4wd stuff, and much to see even if you have 2wd and a big camper. But the little pop-up finds the out of the way trails much easier, so much that Vince is looking for a good used one! Any body know of one for sale, preferably in Northern California?
I'll also post some pictures when I get a chance. The big camper is okay on many roads there as long as you are not in a hurry. But it did force us to give up on one trail and return the way we came, so the small camper has an obvious advantage.
The beach in the pictures is where I live---Hatteras Island NC. It is a part of the Cape Hatteras National Sea Shore. You may have heard about our Light House and the way they moved it a couple of years ago. Nearly everyone has rod holders on their trucks here. Some even have coolers on them.Vince--thanks for posting the pictures for me.
From snow bound IA. Camp here with 32ft 5th wheel. Had a palameno PU fold down for about 15 yrs previous but needed more room for the grandkids after they discovered camping with us. Don't think the 5th wheel would be a good idea on your trip. Makes me think about a PU camper again. Have Silverado HD excab LT 4x4 w/8100/allison on order -- shur hope it gets here by spring. Getting tire a pulling that 5th wheel with '90 F150/351 eng.. Enjoyed your pictures -- Thanks
Where in Iowa? I'm from Dike, my dad currently lives in Elberon. He had to move when Dike got too big (800 and rising) so he moved to Elberon (pop 101). My dad pulls a tag around Iowa all summer. 78 and he camps one week, one week home all summer. Sure hope I can do that when I'm 78.
Talked to dad on Christmas day, he said it was 27 below. Brrrrrr! I always said there are only two reasons I left Iowa - summer and winter.
Marshalltown--Not too far from Dike and Waterloo - (Don't know Elberon though)Camped Yellow River State forrest northeast corner of state years ago -- trout streams their when our kids were growing up -- Now take grandkids -they just love it -- also campout at Oshkosh big annual general aviation fly in with G-kids reason for the 5th whl. Have Cessna Skyhawk which kids (10, 7, 4 & 2)like also.
I was born in Marshalltown. Grew up in Gladbrook then Dike. A few years back we scattered my mom's ashes in the Yellow River State Forest. She loved that place.
Elberon is about an hour south of Waterloo, just north of Belle Plaine, south of Dysart. Just another one of the many small, dying towns in the midwest.
Two things we must have when we visit Iowa are:
Corn Nuggets from the Dysart Drive-in. Tell Rhonda that Mike and Dorothy from California said hello. If she doesn't pick up on that tell her 'Bob Ledtje's son'.
Maid-Rite. Can't believe they are not available outside of Iowa. Eat them 2-3 times every summer. Of course the Maid-Rite store in Marshalltown doesn't have ketchup, and I like ketchup on my Maid-Rite!
Of course, I also miss thunderstorms and the smell of ozone after a good one.
Have to keep the Corn Nuggets in mind next time go thru Dysart -- They still their??
Maid-Rite phobia -- We have 'ol high school' friends' who live in Ft Collins and they always stop at the Maidrite and gorge then pack up ice chest full to take home with them- In fact they were just here last nite because of a funeral in Des Moines today, but they came here just to get the Maid-Rites - We always take some out when we go visit also. AND I USUALLY TAKE HOME BECAUSE I 'HAVE TO HAVE KETCHUP' on them also-- Won't eat one unless have ketchup!!!
Hope you could stop by next time your come back. Be Nice to meet you guys and if you don't mind four place Cessnas give you a ride OVER dysart.--- The 75v is part of our Tail Number)
We plan 10 day driving trip to Arizona City half way between Tuson and Phoenix Feb 20th there about.
The Dysart Drive-in is only open in the summer. Rhonda's parents drive down from Minnesota and run it all summer. Then they go back to Minnesota for the winter. ?????
But it is still there and the malts are quite good.
We will be back this summer. When I don't know yet. I promised my dad I would take him to Detroit so he could see the Henry Ford Museum. We have to arrange a time. There is also a reunion of his WWII outfit in Ann Arbor in Sept, so maybe we will do both on the same trip. He could do it all himself, but the big city traffic bothers him. So, I will drive his truck and trailer, and Dorothy will drive ours.
Dad has a 6000lb tag that he pulls with a Silverado 5.3L/auto/3.42. He feels it pulls as good as the 99/5.3L/auto/3.73 because of the increased torque of the 2000 (This is the Silverado/camper content).
Hopefully, we can get togethter then.
Mike L 00 2500 4x4 6.0L 5spd Reg Cab Longbed Deadhorse, Alaska 6-6-99
I just read some interesting stories on camper mounts on the Happy Campers BB. Look under Power and Strength and then slide in camper mounts. Never heard of anyone on here having these problems.
I wonder if he had HappiJac mounts, or some imitation. My Phoenix camper came with hardware store mounts that were 5/16" diameter with no give or built in spring. The HappiJac's are 1/2" and have 3/4" of give in the front mounts. We did manage to twist the frame enough (off road) to cause one of the hardware store mounts to straighten out and fly off. Since I replaced the tie downs with the HappiJac's we have had no problems.
Comments
I got my new converter today. After about an hr. it was in but not working!! It didn't have any 12v output. Called the factory and they are sending another one tomorrow. Just my luck.
Do any of you use lp catalytic heaters? If so; how well do they work. I'm thinking of getting one. With my luck, the darn thing will probably COOL rather than heat.
Coolcontractor---I have a Sun Lite Eagle SB and like it (pop-up}. Will give you more info if you want it.
Check the carrying capacity of you truck, subtract the weight of all the people you will carry and gear and food, etc. For us, two people (325 lbs), gear, food, water, etc. all adds up to 800lbs. Yours may be higher. Estimate high and you may get closer! After that, subtract the weight you have used from the available capacity to find a maximum camper weight. Then check if the manufacturer has a max. camper weight rating for your truck. Try not to exceed the smaller of those two numbers.
Then check out the websites for the various factories for specs, options, floor plans, etc.
Try and decide what you need, want, and want to avoid in a popup. And which models look like they will work for you. Check into local delivery. Some are factory only, or big bucks for delivery and setup.
Then ask the factories for local owners that you can talk to. And maybe even see the campers, how the roof goes up/down. Storage space inside. Talk to the owners. Maybe you can narrow your choices down that way.
Some places to look for factory websites:
http://www.rvamerica.com/data/genindex.htm
http://www.rvia.org/
http://phoenixcampers.com/index.html
http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/
Good Luck,
Mike L
http://www.starcraftrv.com
http://www.hallmarkrv.com
http://www.palominorv.com
http://www.northstarcampers.com
He emailed me a few weeks back to say that they will be doing a project on RVs. I don't know what they will come up with - we'll have to wait until we see the article when it comes out. I doubt that it will be of any great help in rating slide-in campers, however, and pop tops are just a small percentage of the slide-ins.
A skim of ice across the whole Connecticut River this morning. Camper is in its shed.
I ended up using #10 stranded copper wire to do the jacks. I'm glad I did because Romex is too big and stiff to work with in tight quarters.
I spent all weekend and now have the jacks on and wired to one location. Still need to connect the wires to the control unit, clean up some routing, and seal all the holes. Some parts of this job were pretty tricky. Like drilling into 1" of free space next to the water tank, from the outside. Get that one wrong and you've got a major problem. The left rear jack is next to the water heater and the sewer hose storage compartment. There was no place to put the connector because the cable from the jack motor is short. I ended up putting the connector INSIDE the sewer hose compartment. It took some creative cutting but worked well in the end. Another few evenings and it will be done.
Quite a few of the same parts are sold in both types of catalogs – primarily appliances, sinks, faucets, and related stuff. There are items that are sold in the marine catalogs that are not sold in the RV catalogs, but would work in an RV.
In your opinions am I making an erroneous assumption that the marine equipment would be of higher quality than RV equipment? My thinking is that, given the environment that boats exist in, they would require sturdier, better built equipment. If something on my camper breaks I can easily drive somewhere to fix it or get it fixed; that wouldn’t always be the case on a boat.
It will be interesting to see what type of report Consumer Reports does on RVs. This is an industry that’s crying for someone to do the type of reporting that Consumer Reports produces.
It appears to me that magazines that purport to do evaluations of equipment are merely acting as shills for the manufacturers; they rarely, if ever, find anything negative about any of the things they evaluate. After all, we can’t lose any advertising dollars can we?
I couldn't argue with your reasoning.
I would think that boats that have plumbing and appliances would generally be more expensive than camper, and boaters would want better quality stuff for the money they spend.
I put a plastic sink faucet in my camper, and it was a step up from the POS that was originally installed. I'd really be upset if I was 200 miles from shore when I discovered that!
Mike L
The marine appliances may be smaller, which would help preserve living space in your camper.
I chose the wireless remote version. I recommend it not only because it's handy, but also for the ability to run all four jacks at the same time. The manual version has a switch on each jack.
Take a look.
Could be a good idea!
Do you have some 1' square plywood pieces so the feet don't sink into the sand at DV? It depends on the campground. The one that I suggested at Furnace Creek is hardpacked dirt, not sand. But, others are paved or sand.
Only 14 more shopping days till Xmas!!
Mike L
No Mike, DV wasn't my motivation for the jacks although I'm glad to have it done before we go. I've been meaning to cut some plywood footing squares but haven't done it. Last time I dropped it in the forest I used flat rocks from a creek bed. It didn't work very well. The new jacks have a bigger foot, about 5" diameter, so I won't need a footer most of the time.
Now that the jacks are done I can go on to the water pump project. After that, two more projects and I'm done. Mike I need to come by this week and check out the rubber mounts you found.
I am definately interested in buying your jacks. The only problem I see is that you are in California and I'm in Washington. I can't imagine it would be very cost effective to ship those jacks. Do you have any plans to be up in the Seattle area between now and spring?
Couple of questions. How old are the jacks? Have you had any problems with them leaking fluid?
If you would like to take this discussion offline, my email address is up to date in my profile.
-Mike
I'll send you an e-mail.
They recommend (but don't supply) a 40 amp breaker for the main feed. I used a 30 amp because it's all the local auto store had. So far it has not tripped so that gives some indication of the current requirement. I'll measure the actual current some day just to satisfy my curiosity.
I have been researching pop-up campers for a few
months. I like the 4-Wheel Camper and the Lite
Craft Camper (Although I have never seen one up
close in person). I have read several postings
regarding 4-Wheel Campers. Does anyone know about
the Lite Craft?
I am interested in using my future camper in cold
weather. How do these type of units perform in
freezing weather. Is the fresh H20 system
insulated, or is it useless in sub-freezing temps?
It also appears that I should opt for a ceramic
type heater as opposed to the fan blown furnace.
Does the ceramic heater give off fumes that smell
up the interior?
Thanks for your help!
#238 of 245: Heater (vince4) Thu 14 Dec '00 (09:43 PM)
I've had a catalytic heater and it did have a very
slight odor but not bad at all. Out there the heat
feels so good, you don't care if it smells like a
goat. Just leave a roof vent and window open a
little and it will work fine. It's by far the most
efficient heater you can choose.
#239 of 245: Pop-ups... (jheil) Fri 15 Dec '00 (01:33 AM)
Live2Ski,
If you scroll back to message 155 or so there are
some very informed responses to query I made about
pop-ups by Mike L, Jim, Vince and others. They
should give you quite a bit of info to think about.
In repsonse to your query about Litecraft... I
stopped at their factory north of Denver Colorado
about 3 months ago. I also stopped and visited
Phoenix pop-ups at the same time. They too, are in
the Denver area. I was able to look at a couple
of the Litecrafts. I felt quality was a little
better than Phoenix but I'm an UNinformed future
buyer of my first ever pop-up. I was just going by
what my general thump on the walls and kick the
tires impressions were.
I do know that even though it might be expensive
to do I will visit all the showrooms of all the
campers I am considering before making a final
decision (FourWheel, Phoenix, Litecraft). A
purchase of $10,000. makes me justify a nice road
trip.
Good luck and please let us know what you finally
decide on.
Best regards, Joe
#240 of 245: converter/cat. heater (oltroll1) Fri 15 Dec '00 (05:49 AM)
I finally got a converter that works and doesn't
have noise in it. The factory rep. still doesn't
know why the old one put out interference.
I talked with a rep. from US cat. heaters this
week. The clearance for their heaters is 4" on the
sides ,18" above and 30" in front. The 30" in front
presents a problem. I would have to make it a
portable one on legs and only have one choice as to
where to put it. Anyone ever had one with less
clearance?
#241 of 245: fan blown furnace - yes (markbuck) Fri 15 Dec '00 (11:33 AM)
Yawl can do what you want, but I kinda like
heating systems that exhaust the combustions
products OUTSIDE the area being heated, at least if
you want to heat spaces that will be occupied by
living things.
#242 of 245: Heaters (vince4) Sun 17 Dec '00 (12:17 AM)
Markbuck I also like the idea of a vented heater
and would select a furnace for a hardside with
plenty of battery reserve. But for a popup with
less insulation and maybe less battery and propane
reserves I wouldn't hesitate to put in a catalytic.
They burn much cleaner than the burner in a
furnace so have less byproducts to vent in the
first place.
oltroll1, I don't like the idea of a freestanding
heater. It's a hassle to deal with and sounds like
a safety hazard. What if it fell over? I'd say the
30" clearance is important for flammable items like
fabric, but I wouldn't worry about a wood wall or
something being a little closer. Where are you
thinking of putting it, and what is too close?
If the mounting location doesn't have any other problems I would mount it. 26" is a little close but is not really a problem. First, even if you set it on high I doubt the fabric would get anywhere near hot enough to ignite. More importantly, you will be in the camper and you have control over the temperature. If you can't run it on high safely then don't. You could also obtain an insulating throw to drape over the fabric when the heater is in use. My heater had quite a range of output; on high it would glow red a little and on low it was just warm.
I find that there is plenty of heating capacity in our heater and stealing some heat from it would not cause a problem except during times of heavy demand. It seldom requires firing except when hot water is running. It stays quite warm on the pilot ligh alone. This is because the burner is designed for a fast recovery time when the hot water is depleted. I could see a system where radiant coils were located in the floor of the camper taking little space and providing real comfort on a cold morning. Also the coils could take a turn or two around a holding tank. There might be a need for a hot water to air exchanger for fast warm up, since radiant heat would probably come up more slowly. The hot water to air component could be obtained from any junk car heater. Because the water heater temp is usually set at 140 degrees so that people will not be scalded and most radiation/radiators are rated for capacity at 180 degrees or so, whatever heat exchanger is used should be downrated a bit.
I have a brochure from Webasto Thermosystems that makes a diesel fired hot water heater that is sold for large diesel trucks. It is used for engine warm-up and to keep sleeper cab temps in acceptable range. That way the truck engine does not have to idle all the time the driver is sleeping. It is expensive and bulky for camper use, however, and most of us already have a hot water heater. It also uses enough battery for the pumps and oil burner so that a battery pack is included. (Using the camper hot water heater to warm the pickup engine at very low temps is probably not a good idea because of the toxicity of engine antifreeze, even if a water to water heat exchanger was put in the system.)
If a small propane or gasoline fired boiler were connected to flexible piping, it could be placed on the ground while the camper was parked. That way there would be enough vertical height in the system so that a thermosiphon would be possible. Then there would be no need for a pump or battery, and the boiler would run as long as there was fuel. These possible systems would have to be appropriate safety relief valving and provisions for expansion.
Well, this is a good way to spend a winter evening. Lots of new snow here.
I need to file that idea away for when I make my own, perfect camper with none of the problems/comprimises of commercial products. Yah, like all the other 'projects' that never happen.
Mike L
We hope everyone has a Joyous Christmas and a safe and prosperous New Year!!
Mike & Dorothy Ledtje
Thanks, Joe
Would you mind reposting your comments about wastewater and hoses? For some reason it didn't take. I'd be interested in your thoughts.
Many thanks, Joe
If you hook up a hose to the sink drain on a camper and run the hose into the woods, weeds or desert river there is generally hell to pay, however, even though the end of the hose is exactly where one would empty the bucket. I think this is because just the sight of the hose upsets human sensibilities - we are simply biased against pipes and hoses. It is true that a hose can carry a lot more water than most people feel like transporting a bucket at a time. Also true that one cannot see what is going through the hose until it comes out the end - which is too late to do much about. On the other hand, alot of the stainless steel in our camper kitchen drawer is stuff we have pulled out of various rivers where people have emptied their dishwater (and their utensils at the same time).
The gray water tank on our pop top is one of its most convenient features. It saves us a lot of time as we clean up the dishes and ourselves and allows us to get rid of the gray water in a way that is both ecologically sound and does not offend the sensitivities of those with a bias against hoses. To get a gray water holding tank you pretty much have to go to a 10 foot pop up, however. Some company should make a flexible collapsible gray water holding tank that could be connected to the sink drain of an 8 foot pop top and stuffed into the space along side the fender well. That way one could have a 10 gallon tank on board and drain it at dump stations.
It is illegal to discharge gray water onto the ground from the camper. Of course it's okay if you are tent camping and dump the same water on the same ground. Go figure. So I would drain into my jug, which satisfied the rangers even though there was nowhere in camp to dump the jug except on the ground. Some (few) campgrounds have waste water drains, or if the bathrooms use flushies you can always empty it there.
I just returned from that trip and flushed the system. Wow, I can't believe the quantity of junk I got out of there. The water heater is the culprit I'm sure. This is an important task to carry out once or twice a year.
You need to power flush the system, just draining it isn't enough. Also, the portion to treat is after the pump, not the fresh water tank. I connected a garden hose to the city water inlet for a high pressure water source. Then opened the drain valve on the water heater and removed the cap on the system drain hose (my camper has a drain hose near the dump plumbing).
Water shot out of both, it was full of calcium (?) deposits (my granuals) and a little rust. I used a compressed air source and blew into each outlet just to add more pressure and turbulence. You could get away without that if you don't have a compressor. Be prepared to get wet! My shirt was covered with calcium granuals after being soaked by the stream leaving the water heater.
I was shocked by the amount of junk in the system. My camper is 9 years old and has probably never been flushed in this way. I recommend you do it more often than that.
We traveled on some nasty roads (1-2 mph speeds) and some OK dirt roads (10-20 mph). Camped out on Goler Wash near the Barker Ranch (where Charles Manson was captured). And again up Johnson Canyon on a slope so steep we had a difficult time getting level. Dig 6" holes under the front tires and 6-10" of rocks and 2x6s under the rears. Vince just backed in and let all the air out of the air lift and about 4-8" under the fronts.
I've got some pictures of Vince coming down some slopes going into Titus Canyon. I'll post them where everyone can see them when I bring them to work.
Weather was good, days 60's, nights mostly 20's and 30's. One morning the curtains were frozen to the side window for an hour after we turned the heat on in the morning.
We wandered out to Darwin Falls - 30 foot waterfall in the middle of the desert!!!
Death Valley is a great place, plenty of 4wd stuff, and much to see even if you have 2wd and a big camper. But the little pop-up finds the out of the way trails much easier, so much that Vince is looking for a good used one! Any body know of one for sale, preferably in Northern California?
Mike L
http://community.webshots.com/album/8462467uzEJwXMptJ
Mike L
http://members.home.net/vofm/death.html
http://members.home.net/vofm/oltroll_truck.jpg
Ed, what beach is that?
http://members.home.net/vofm/dv/death.html
http://members.home.net/vofm/guests/oltroll_truck.jpg
Had a palameno PU fold down for about 15 yrs previous but needed more room for the grandkids after they discovered camping with us. Don't think the 5th wheel would be a good idea on your trip. Makes me think about a PU camper again. Have Silverado HD excab LT 4x4 w/8100/allison on order -- shur hope it gets here by spring. Getting tire a pulling that 5th wheel with '90 F150/351 eng..
Enjoyed your pictures -- Thanks
75v
Nice grill guard, never seen one quite like it.
N75v111,
Where in Iowa? I'm from Dike, my dad currently lives in Elberon. He had to move when Dike got too big (800 and rising) so he moved to Elberon (pop 101). My dad pulls a tag around Iowa all summer. 78 and he camps one week, one week home all summer. Sure hope I can do that when I'm 78.
Talked to dad on Christmas day, he said it was 27 below. Brrrrrr! I always said there are only two reasons I left Iowa - summer and winter.
Later,
Mike L
75v - Loren B
Elberon is about an hour south of Waterloo, just north of Belle Plaine, south of Dysart. Just another one of the many small, dying towns in the midwest.
Two things we must have when we visit Iowa are:
Corn Nuggets from the Dysart Drive-in. Tell Rhonda that Mike and Dorothy from California said hello. If she doesn't pick up on that tell her 'Bob Ledtje's son'.
Maid-Rite. Can't believe they are not available outside of Iowa. Eat them 2-3 times every summer. Of course the Maid-Rite store in Marshalltown doesn't have ketchup, and I like ketchup on my Maid-Rite!
Of course, I also miss thunderstorms and the smell of ozone after a good one.
Mike L
Maid-Rite phobia -- We have 'ol high school' friends' who live in Ft Collins and they always stop at the Maidrite and gorge then pack up ice chest full to take home with them- In fact they were just here last nite because of a funeral in Des Moines today, but they came here just to get the Maid-Rites - We always take some out when we go visit also. AND I USUALLY TAKE HOME BECAUSE I 'HAVE TO HAVE KETCHUP' on them also-- Won't eat one unless have ketchup!!!
Hope you could stop by next time your come back. Be Nice to meet you guys and if you don't mind four place Cessnas give you a ride OVER dysart.--- The 75v is part of our Tail Number)
We plan 10 day driving trip to Arizona City half way between Tuson and Phoenix Feb 20th there about.
75v (llbovee@marshallnet.com)
Fisher Controls -- (loren.bovee@frco.com)
But it is still there and the malts are quite good.
We will be back this summer. When I don't know yet. I promised my dad I would take him to Detroit so he could see the Henry Ford Museum. We have to arrange a time. There is also a reunion of his WWII outfit in Ann Arbor in Sept, so maybe we will do both on the same trip. He could do it all himself, but the big city traffic bothers him. So, I will drive his truck and trailer, and Dorothy will drive ours.
Dad has a 6000lb tag that he pulls with a Silverado 5.3L/auto/3.42. He feels it pulls as good as the 99/5.3L/auto/3.73 because of the increased torque of the 2000 (This is the Silverado/camper content).
Hopefully, we can get togethter then.
Mike L
00 2500 4x4 6.0L 5spd Reg Cab Longbed
Deadhorse, Alaska 6-6-99
Mike L