I would say longing to drive the V-6 after having driven the four is not going back for seconds, it is trying a different flavor.
It went like one for four on attributes they specifically mentioned, but on that "one" they said "thumbs way up". I would call that overall lukewarm at best.
I did note that they drove a 4-cylinder manual shift EX, yet the curb weight was up to 3353 lb. This car is getting porky. Here's hoping this is the last upsizing this model gets for a looong time.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
definitely too big. I'm turned off, that's for sure.
Maybe its because I'm too harsh of a critic, but yeah, if I say "hey, I wanna try this car again!" that's a pretty good thing. In other words, as much as they had bad to say about the materials and styling, it obviously wasn't bad enough to make them say "ugh! keep these vehicles away from me!"
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Any time someone says "styling ripped off Hyundai", I can't help but think about slapping that person's head, and tell him/her... "duh! What goes around, comes around".
I don't think "what goes around comes around" is a very good attitude to take when your latest flagship sedan has copied ALMOST TO A TEE most of the styling of the Hyundai Sonata.
Literally, to the layman these two are going to be indistinguishable at 10 yards from now on. Both even have a badge that says 'H' on the grille. People aren't going to know an Accord when they see one. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Am I looking at the wrong car? Are we talking about the '08 Sonata? The one that looks like the Accord from 2 redesigns ago?
Honestly, I'm not trying to be fecetious. I really want to see for myself, so I'm looking at the pics on Edmunds right now. I click on the Sonata and I see '03-'05 Accord. I click on the new Accord and I see '04 TL in the sides and I do see something familiar in the rear, but I don't believe its Hyundai ... I could be mistaken. I'm thinking its something American. Also a bit of 5-series in the rear, as others have pointed out on the Accord boards.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
To me, if you look at the new Accord head-on from the front, it looks exactly like an 11/10ths Sonata. A little wider perhaps, but that's it. If you look down its flanks you get more of the same impression, but it isn't as strong. I think probably people who can identify cars do so from the "face" of the car, so it's that front end that poses the biggest problem.
I would think it was just me being weird, but lots of people have mentioned the resemblance now, the latest being that Autoweek editor in the article I linked.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
so... we're talking about just the front? I see Scion TC in the front, personally. The reason I don't see the Sonata in the front is because the grille is shaped differently, the fenders slope differently, the headlights are shaped differently .... I mean, is it just me? It has to be. I must be either too obtuse to see the resemblance or too anal. I dunno.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I don't think it is you. They all look the same to me any more. Whether it is a mid sized sedan, CUV or PU truck. One does something different and the rest jump on the bandwagon.
Its not about "attitude", its about reality. When I first saw 2005 Sonata, the first thought that came to my mind was my 1998 Accord, complete with a chrome strip on upper part of the grill (which was an accessory in the Accord). So, now if an Accord builds upon that look, it is copying something from in between? If you think so, you (and those others) are failing to connect the dots.
And I consider those folks and most around here to be more than just laymen.
I actually saw my first 08 Accord a few weeks back. I thought it was an old Saturn! The styling of the new Accord is horrible. Too many different shapes/bends/cuts around the car. This car won't sell on styling, lucky it has reputation. :sick:
was a runner-up for the NACOTY award. I guess that's the good news. The bad news is it only got about half as many points in the voting as the new Malibu, which was of course the winner.
It took me a while to warm up to the styling of the '03 when it came out. I guess I may eventually warm up to the styling of the new Accord now too. I do think the coupe looks great. The sedan looks weird, like it was stretched out like taffy on purpose to increase interior volume. IMO the "taffy stretching" approach to styling leaves a lot to be desired! :-P
It does bear a resemblance to the old Saturn L-series sedans - if you took an L200 and inflated it like a balloon (stretching in all directions, IOW), you would get close.
I don't expect them to have a lot of trouble selling Accords though. Underneath the styling the mechanicals are good and the rep is well deserved. I sure hope it knocks Camry off its throne in 2008. That's a perch which the Toyota doesn't deserve IMO.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I must admit when I read the title of this thread I laughed. I bet all companies that are in trouble wished they had Hondas problems: increased sales and profits, most fuel efficient lineup with a diesel coming in a year.
Regarding the new Accord, while Honda did "stretch" it out of my sights, it's apparent they had to increase its size to make room for the Fit and Civic, I imagine with the next generation, the Accord will grow a couple of inches to compete with the Avalon. BTW, they'll still sell close to 400k Accords.
My bias is not against Volvo cars. It is against Volvo drivers. They have to be the WORST on the planet. Like they are are only cars on the road...
Wait this is a Honda thread. I hate Honda too. Well at least the 1979 Accord POC I owned. I may have to give them a go if they come up with a great diesel SUV like the Pilot.
I like the way you say hate certain make/models and then turn around and give them a test drive. And even buy them now and then.
My wealthy neighbor wears a Rolex but drives only Volvos. I may have to go test drive one and see if my luck has changed (and see if I can be as generous as you in giving them a go).
Back to the topic at hand, Honda is increasing CR-V production in the US.
"Japan's second-largest automaker is expanding U.S. output to hedge against a stronger yen, which cuts the repatriated value of dollar-denominated sales." Bloomberg
I thought currency manipulation was helping the Japanese automakers - funny way to take advantage of that "help."
...but the new Pilot has a major case of the uglies. I'm beginning to think that Honda needs some new talent in the design studio. The front end on that one is awful.
I like the way you say hate certain make/models and then turn around and give them a test drive. And even buy them now and then.
I was on the rebound from my disappointment with the GL320 CDI transmission. The Sequoia was just there at the right time to get my attention. I do like to drive it. Nice smooth ride with a very smooth engine transmission. Lots of room for stuff. I can wander out into the desert in relative confidence and wonderful comfort. Who knows maybe Honda will see the error in their designs in a few years and come back to earth. Put in a high mileage diesel engine and I can be persuaded to forgive them for the 1979 Accord.
Its bland yeah and the cheaper plastics I did notice at the auto show that I went too in late in 2007 but at least the exterior of the 08 Accord Sedan looks better than the 03 model exterior of the 4 dr Accord. The exterior design of the 03 Accord I never understood why Honda even approved that design to go into production. At least the 08 design I can understand why Honda would approve it for production purposes.
To me the front of the 08 Accord sedan has the grille of the 96-97 Accord and an evolution of the 98 Accord's headlights. Tailights scream 05 RL and maybe 94-95 Accord.
As far as autoweek saying it looks like a Hyundai Sonata copy thats ridiculous since the 06+ Sonata looks the front of the 98 Accord which was a copy of the 97 Camry front end in the first place.
That has to be dissapointing for Honda though to lose COTY to the Malibu though. I mean the last gen Malibu was a middle of the pack competitor at best(it shows how far GM has come though.)
I guess Honda will have to downsize the Accord for the next gen model run and put better interior pieces back into the car. Honda only lost CR's best mid-size car to Nissan Altima by 1 point in the V6 comparo in CR so the Accord is still a top dog(well one of the the top dogs)in the class. The Accord 4 cyl only lost the Altima 4 cyl by 6 points.Hard to believe the Altima is the top dog in the mid-size class now. I wonder how the 98-02 Accord performed against the 95-99 and 00-03 Maxima's in CR back in the day.
"I'm beginning to think that Honda needs some new talent in the design studio"
I agree, although Toyota pales by comparison.
If Honda gets some new talent in the styling department, can Acura borrow them from time to time? They could sure use the help too. The new MDX... :sick:
I haven't seen any pics of the new TL and TSX coming this year, so maybe those will be an improvement. The RDX looks OK, with it my biggest gripe is Acura has too many big bloated vehicles and not enough fun sporty CARS any more.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"I haven't seen any pics of the new TL and TSX coming this year, so maybe those will be an improvement. The RDX looks OK, with it my biggest gripe is Acura has too many big bloated vehicles and not enough fun sporty CARS any more."
I wouldn;t count on Acura offering more sporty cars in their line-up without being bloated any time I mean the days of Acura offering the Integra/RSX are long over. I mean even if you look at BMW I mean the only thing they have thats non-bloated is the M3, 3 Series, and the upcoming 1 Series. The 5 Series is bloated.
"If Honda gets some new talent in the styling department, can Acura borrow them from time to time? They could sure use the help too. The new MDX..."
Yeah the new MDX I don;t like it in the styling department. It looks like they tried too benchmark Audi's new SUV and I don;t really don;t get excited about Audi's styling for the most part except for the 02-05 A4 and the current generation A8 before the refresh to the front end. The 01-06 MDX was so much better looking than the current MDX.
Comments
I would say longing to drive the V-6 after having driven the four is not going back for seconds, it is trying a different flavor.
It went like one for four on attributes they specifically mentioned, but on that "one" they said "thumbs way up". I would call that overall lukewarm at best.
I did note that they drove a 4-cylinder manual shift EX, yet the curb weight was up to 3353 lb. This car is getting porky. Here's hoping this is the last upsizing this model gets for a looong time.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Maybe its because I'm too harsh of a critic, but yeah, if I say "hey, I wanna try this car again!" that's a pretty good thing. In other words, as much as they had bad to say about the materials and styling, it obviously wasn't bad enough to make them say "ugh! keep these vehicles away from me!"
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Literally, to the layman these two are going to be indistinguishable at 10 yards from now on. Both even have a badge that says 'H' on the grille. People aren't going to know an Accord when they see one. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Honestly, I'm not trying to be fecetious. I really want to see for myself, so I'm looking at the pics on Edmunds right now. I click on the Sonata and I see '03-'05 Accord. I click on the new Accord and I see '04 TL in the sides and I do see something familiar in the rear, but I don't believe its Hyundai ... I could be mistaken. I'm thinking its something American. Also a bit of 5-series in the rear, as others have pointed out on the Accord boards.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I would think it was just me being weird, but lots of people have mentioned the resemblance now, the latest being that Autoweek editor in the article I linked.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I see Scion TC in the front, personally. The reason I don't see the Sonata in the front is because the grille is shaped differently, the fenders slope differently, the headlights are shaped differently .... I mean, is it just me? It has to be. I must be either too obtuse to see the resemblance or too anal. I dunno.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
And I consider those folks and most around here to be more than just laymen.
Reputation goes a long way. Some people are well known Honda bashers for example. :P
It took me a while to warm up to the styling of the '03 when it came out. I guess I may eventually warm up to the styling of the new Accord now too. I do think the coupe looks great. The sedan looks weird, like it was stretched out like taffy on purpose to increase interior volume. IMO the "taffy stretching" approach to styling leaves a lot to be desired! :-P
It does bear a resemblance to the old Saturn L-series sedans - if you took an L200 and inflated it like a balloon (stretching in all directions, IOW), you would get close.
I don't expect them to have a lot of trouble selling Accords though. Underneath the styling the mechanicals are good and the rep is well deserved. I sure hope it knocks Camry off its throne in 2008. That's a perch which the Toyota doesn't deserve IMO.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I must admit when I read the title of this thread I laughed. I bet all companies that are in trouble wished they had Hondas problems: increased sales and profits, most fuel efficient lineup with a diesel coming in a year.
Regarding the new Accord, while Honda did "stretch" it out of my sights, it's apparent they had to increase its size to make room for the Fit and Civic, I imagine with the next generation, the Accord will grow a couple of inches to compete with the Avalon. BTW, they'll still sell close to 400k Accords.
One reason I liked Edmunds when I found it in '98 was because it's biased. Especially this part:
"We exist for the consumer, and write to that audience" (link)
Now, if I was bashing Volvo in many of my posts, I'd certainly get a bashing reputation eh?
(I'm pretty fond of Nissan drivetrains too btw).
Wait this is a Honda thread. I hate Honda too. Well at least the 1979 Accord POC I owned. I may have to give them a go if they come up with a great diesel SUV like the Pilot.
My wealthy neighbor wears a Rolex but drives only Volvos. I may have to go test drive one and see if my luck has changed (and see if I can be as generous as you in giving them a go).
Back to the topic at hand, Honda is increasing CR-V production in the US.
"Japan's second-largest automaker is expanding U.S. output to hedge against a stronger yen, which cuts the repatriated value of dollar-denominated sales." Bloomberg
I thought currency manipulation was helping the Japanese automakers - funny way to take advantage of that "help."
although, I did own a volvo and we now have a bmw in the garage. hmmmm...
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I was on the rebound from my disappointment with the GL320 CDI transmission. The Sequoia was just there at the right time to get my attention. I do like to drive it. Nice smooth ride with a very smooth engine transmission. Lots of room for stuff. I can wander out into the desert in relative confidence and wonderful comfort. Who knows maybe Honda will see the error in their designs in a few years and come back to earth. Put in a high mileage diesel engine and I can be persuaded to forgive them for the 1979 Accord.
To me the front of the 08 Accord sedan has the grille of the 96-97 Accord and an evolution of the 98 Accord's headlights. Tailights scream 05 RL and maybe 94-95 Accord.
As far as autoweek saying it looks like a Hyundai Sonata copy thats ridiculous since the 06+ Sonata looks the front of the 98 Accord which was a copy of the 97 Camry front end in the first place.
That has to be dissapointing for Honda though to lose COTY to the Malibu though. I mean the last gen Malibu was a middle of the pack competitor at best(it shows how far GM has come though.)
I guess Honda will have to downsize the Accord for the next gen model run and put better interior pieces back into the car. Honda only lost CR's best mid-size car to Nissan Altima by 1 point in the V6 comparo in CR so the Accord is still a top dog(well one of the the top dogs)in the class. The Accord 4 cyl only lost the Altima 4 cyl by 6 points.Hard to believe the Altima is the top dog in the mid-size class now. I wonder how the 98-02 Accord performed against the 95-99 and 00-03 Maxima's in CR back in the day.
I agree, although Toyota pales by comparison.
If Honda gets some new talent in the styling department, can Acura borrow them from time to time? They could sure use the help too. The new MDX... :sick:
I haven't seen any pics of the new TL and TSX coming this year, so maybe those will be an improvement. The RDX looks OK, with it my biggest gripe is Acura has too many big bloated vehicles and not enough fun sporty CARS any more.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I wouldn;t count on Acura offering more sporty cars in their line-up without being bloated any time I mean the days of Acura offering the Integra/RSX are long over. I mean even if you look at BMW I mean the only thing they have thats non-bloated is the M3, 3 Series, and the upcoming 1 Series. The 5 Series is bloated.
"If Honda gets some new talent in the styling department, can Acura borrow them from time to time? They could sure use the help too. The new MDX..."
Yeah the new MDX I don;t like it in the styling department. It looks like they tried too benchmark Audi's new SUV and I don;t really don;t get excited about Audi's styling for the most part except for the 02-05 A4 and the current generation A8 before the refresh to the front end. The 01-06 MDX was so much better looking than the current MDX.