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FYI, I got mine for WAY under Invoice. $1200 under, and with a very high trade allowance (nearly 2Gs more than any other dealership). I got a black GTS with sun/sound and Nav Tech for right at 20.2 out the door where as MSRP was $22.6 and invoice was 21.4 or so.
Mileage wise I am seeing around 34mpg on the GSP at 75mph in the flat. In mixed, aggressive driving I am still in the high 20s.
And I was a bit surprised at no ECS in the GTS flavor, but after some thought I really am not that surprised based on price point. And more importantly, ESC isn't that great... having had it on my Grand Prix it was 'meh', and I found myself turning it off as much as I left it on and of little use in the rain (though nice in snow).
Snow tires? That's well and good, but I ALSO prefer ECS or plain traction control, if available, and proper tires all in unison.
Good luck, and I wish U well in, and with, your GTS!
Peace!<- :shades: -
The Sandman
For the people concerned with lack of Traction control and ESC
From only an owner and driver standpoint having ESC and traction control only makes a small difference in preventing accidents. Not having it means you need to be a little more aware of the abilities of your car and the conditions of the road in order to have the most control.
From a purely resell/trade in standpoint then yes you want those features because they help the car maintain it value over the years better than a car without.
Bottom line is everyone has their reasons for why they buy one car or another. But to like everything about a perticular car except for the fact it lacks ESC or traction control is a little irrational.
"Bottom line is everyone has their reasons for why they buy one car or another." How true! I will choose whatever machine I wish to purchase with the precise features I want, whether my options choices (such as ESC) are "irrational" to others or not.
That's it.
Peace!<- :shades: --
I mean c'mon their function is to provide the car with better handling thus providing a certain level of added safety in inclement driving conditions. That's what the technology is designed for and that's why it is implemented on cars these days.
The added safety that ESC and traction control provide are offset by a driver with more skill, or also by a driver who is more aware of road conditions and adjusts their driving habits accordingly.
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To make it more clearer than before; A person looking for a new car who decides to buy the one that has ESC/traction control over one that does not, but prefers the looks, price, ergonomics, etc etc etc. of the former.....is acting irrationally.
Again to be more clear, if you have say two cars lined up and they both have similar price points and you like everything about both cars but one has ESC/traction control and one doesn't then it makes sense that it might affect the decision towards the one with.
How about where I can get some floor mats that fit? Either Mitsu made or otherwise? I tried a set from walmart but they were too big.
Or that aux cable for my ipod? I don't see how a lil cable can cost $50.
You should be able to get an aux cable for less than $25 easily
check e-bay
craigslist
newegg
or froogle for the lowest price
Thanks
I believe the AUX audio input jacks only come with the upgraded Rockford Fosgate system.
As for floor mats... yeah, good luck. The factory ones are nice, with Lancer stitched in them and they are cut to shape with grommeted hook holes for the staydowns. The pan layout is a bit different that your standard 10 buck wally world rug special from their automotive department.
I don't think the base stereo system has aux in, so you will need to wait for a PAX or similar device to add to your stock system to give you aux inputs. I had to do it on my Grand Prix, ran me about 60 bucks for that unit (but that one also gave me line level outputs... a pure aux in was cheaper as I recall).
And as for the stability control debate... I just don't see the value in it for the cost to me on the sticker of the car. ESC systems in 2 wheel drive, especially front wheel drive economy cars, are next to useless and innefectual. Until you get into mid range and especially higher end cars with AWD they don't do a whole lot... there are so few RWD cars right now (though thank goodness tehy are on the rebound!) that they really don't do much to justify the cost on the low end spectrum of FWD vehicles. You should be more worried about handling, contact patch and tire type, ABS and braking in general as well as brake force distribution in a very light, compact FWD type sedan like the Lancer... and there it just shines.
I beg to differ with you regarding the merits of stability control. I have personally owned vehicles with and without ESC, and with and without AWD. I have also attended some performance driving schools taught by professional drivers. Stability systems are of immense value to 99% of drivers and in many situations, AWD, FWD, or RWD. I suggest you attend a driving course such as one at the Panoz facility in Braselton or similar, with expert instruction. I think you'll have a different opinion after doing some emergency avoidance training in wet and dry conditions in vehicles with and without ESC. No comparison. Not even close to useless and ineffectual, quite the contrary. Not only can I attest to this based on track experience, but also real world in foul weather situations. Do some research online--Bosch used to have a great tutorial on stability control and how it works on their site, don't know if it it still there. Cheers.
ESC for the novice or limited skill driver is of huge benefit... but you won't convince me that a 'real driver' who relies heavily on ESC to bail their butts out in hard driving is a 'good driver'... they aren't.
I agree that driver skill is important. However, it is not a matter of old-school drivers who honed their skills to the expert level without ESC versus drivers who have been coddled by ESC and have no skills. You will find that most professional or performance driving instructors will be the first to tell you of the benefits of ESC technologies. A computer that is monitoring the pitch, roll, yaw rate, speed, throttle position, and braking can make the proper decision to correct an instability issue far faster than you and I the human can. Not even close. By the time you have even realized there is an issue, the ESC has probably begun to correct it. The ESC system can simply process data, select an the most likely appropriate response, and act on it light years faster than we can physically move to apply steering or braking input.
I would modify your statement that ESC is of benefit to novice or limited skill drivers. I would correct this to state that for the 5% or less of the population that has extensive professional training in high speed and/or accident avoidance driving, and who hone these skills on a track regularly, ESDC is of little benefit. To the other 95% of drivers, including the experienced amateur driver such as probably you and I, 9 times out of 10 ESC will react faster and more precisely than you or I can. I'm a pretty experience driver in a lot of weather, and have attended a fair amount of professional instruction, and I'll tell you from experience that ESC will smoke me in an accident avoidance situation far more of the time than I will beat it.
An accurate analogy would be chess. Yes, it is still possible for a human to beat the best computers at chess. However, unless you are one of the top 1% of players in the world, the computer can think and act so much faster than the human player that the computer has now come to the point where it will win the vast majority of the time. Occasionally, the human may pull one out and win. Now, the difference is, in chess you have plenty of time to mull over your decision, so the ability to think and react quickly is less important. In driving, not only do you have to analyze all the complexities of the driving situation, but you have to do it in a matter of seconds or less, and react appropriately under this time limitation. Computer wins even more of the time.
Again, I appreciate the need to know your vehicle, yourself, limits, etc, and I am not discounting that. ESC is not for those situations where you have the time and ability to use your skill appropriately. However, ESC is of incredible use that one time in a hundred where your skills and reaction times are not good enough to stave off a serious accident. You may have been a little tired, be thinking of what you are going to do next weekend, be carrying on a conversation while driving, listening to talk radio, whatever. The point is that no matter how good of a driver you are, since you are not a computer you cannot pay 100% of your attention toward driving 100% of the time. The ESC system does nothing but monitor, tens or hundreds of times per second, many variables that anticipate or react to an emergency. It does not get tired, it does not drink coffee, it does not listen to the radio, it does not think of what a good time was had at the beach last weekend.
Considering that on a VW, for instance, ESC is something like $400 give or take, and probably at similar prices or standard ( Hyundai Sonata ) elsewhere, it is a no-brainer even if it saves you from one or two minor incidents over the lifespan of your ownership. If it saves me one insurance deductible, one less hassle of taking my car to the repair shop while my car is in the body shop, one 1/2 day less off work to deal with my wrecked car, one less instance where the safety of my family is compromised in a potential accident, the best $400 you could spend.
Our skill in foul weather situations may be extensive and we may have been accident free for years, but this anecdotal comment does not change the fact that this is a weak predictor of future performance. I mean, I have lived in my house for years with no fire, but I still buy a fire extinguisher and keep it in the kitchen rather than trusting my vast experience at preventing fires. It just makes sense to use the best technology available to prevent issues if the cost is not stratospheric.
To apply the "old-school" logic to other areas, we should not be using antibiotics, or telephones, for instance. We should hone our skills at infection avoidance instead of wasting money on antibiotic technologies. We should use the postal service instead of making a faster telephone call since that was good enough for decades prior to phones. Just kidding, of course, but you get my point. Just because we learned to survive without some technological advance does not mean that when an advance comes that is an improvement we should shun it.
I submit that the relatively minimal cost of ESC technologies is far, far outweighed by the potential benefits for the overwhelming majority of drivers.
Anyway, gnnr, appreciate the debate and your points.
Matt
gnnr,
What is a PAX and where could I buy it?
Where could I get a pure aux in?
I gotta tell ya, guys, I am drawn to this car because of it's looks. Simply awesome body styling that, BTW, looks much better in person(esp.with Rally red paint!)than in pictures.
I just don't see why I should be "afraid" of driving my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS w/CVT tranny and Sun and Sound package and marvelous styling and disc brakes the size of their Outlander SUV just because there's no ESC! I dont buy that argument and I won't buy it.
BTW-sound and smart driving skills are more important than "having to have" ESC and driving like you think you can in any weather condition. The flow of traffic moves a titch too fast probably and I wonder if one of the reasons for that is because so many millions of American yahoo's feel overly confident in their rig's engineering folly's...I...I mean engineering improvements that they "think" they can speed in to and out of any driving situation their courageous little minds can humm theirselves in to.
It does remind me of a story I read in either the Everett Herald or Seattle Times while I was still living in the great Pacific NW. In northern Oregon there are some long stretches of highway that are beset by windstorms from time to time.
Bad, nasty windstorms that blow farmer's dust across the highway. One day, a sunny day IIRC, a long line of driver's on a long, downhill stretch of this northern Oregon highway came up upon a duststorm that was just plain evil looking. Might they slow down and try to drive with their brain's turned on and be safe?
Nah. Not this bunch. Headlong in to the storm they went(visions of Dennis Rodman's tattoos a-flurry in my brain). Some of the drivers used their noggins and pulled off the highway to safety. Not nearly enough of them did and a major pileup occurred. Now why would they drive in to a duststorm that they could not see through- one that they couldn't see ahead far enough to drive safely through?
Those that pulled off and drove a ways up one of those huge sloped highway banks could see some of the carnage and what they could hear was really awful. The screeching, crunching and carnage going on down the hill a ways was enough to leave permanent scars of memories in their brains.
IIRC 8 people died and many, many people were injured(15 or so). Several needed to be cut out of their rigs. Interviews were interesting to read but suffice to say the main point here is what were all those speeding Americans smoking? True, some could have been foreign drivers. Not real likely but some of them may have been visiting the U.S.
More likely true was that most of the crashed and crunched were driving dumb and too fast and trusting too much in their own driving abilities. Maybe trusting in their rig's capabilites too much. This crash occurred in the late 90's IIRC.
Would ESC have saved their sorry souls? I really, really doubt it. There's this wonderful asset called common sense that did save a dozen or so of those drivers that sunny northern Oregon Columbia River type of day. Windy, dusty, nasty day.
No, I'm not saying ESC is a bad thing or a bad idea. My next rig may indeed have it installed. Do I feel slighted that my '08 Lancer doesn't have it? Not in the slightest.
The car is sure and safe and solid and beautiful. To pass up a car like this because it lacks ESC baffles me just as much as why a large group of American drivers didn't see the wisdom of getting off a highway that they could not see down. Yikes. Reminds me of that Alabama song "I'm in a hurry to get things done...I rush and rush until life's no fun. All I really have to do is live and die, but I'm in a hurry and don't know why."
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
As for it being the sole factor that keeps me from buying a Lancer? Of course not. Is lack of ESC a factor in my purchase decision when many competitors may offer this feature? Sure. I definitely think the Lancer is a great looking car, one of the best in class on the market right now, and this holds appeal for me. But, all other things being equal, I give greater weight to safety than appearance. People can talk crash test results, air bags, etc, all day, and this is great, but the best accident is the one you can avoid in the first place by a combination of driver skill and vehicle capability. My level of skill is the same whether I am driving a Honda Civic, a Lancer, a Mazda 3. The level of protection in the event of an accident, and the level of accident avoidance technology ( ESC ) may differ from car to car, so this is one of many factors in my purchase decision.
We can always find anecdotal evidence to support or refute anything. I can talk about the one person in a hundred that was better off not wearing a seatbelt, or the few people out of a million that did well in a motorcycle accident despite not wearing a helmet. This does not change the fact that, in general, wearing a seatbelt and a helmet are probably far wiser decisions on the whole than not. I'd argue that the majority of the time, all other things being equal, an ESC vehicle will outperform a non-ESC vehicle when reacting to a potential accident on the road. Is it a cure-all? No. But, I invite anyone here to attend a professional driving course for a couple of days where you get to experience ESC vs non-ESC on a track with a wet skidpad, emergency lane changes, et cetera. If after that you think ESC is a waste of your time and money, so be it, but I'd be surprised if you think that.
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ESC as an option can run low or high in terms of cost, and you have to bear in mind you get what you pay for. Some systems are barely more than a mildly smart braking force distribution and tire slip manager (which the Lancer has, mind you). Kind of like AWD systems... there are some that are AWD in name only, and some that truely are AWD.
I do agree that having a traction control system of some kind would help out most drivers and cars, and it shoudl be an option on the Lancer most decidely in this day and age... I just haven't found much benefit to them in the last two cars I owned, and they have been through some seriously bad road conditions (black ice, ice, snow storm/blizzard, heavy rain and wind, sand on the road, oil on the road, gravel roads, etc). I suppose one could argue that they were so sublime and subtle that I didn't even notice it, but I don't think so... the only times I can recall that they helped was one black ice situation, and I had already started my correction when the system kicked in; it was decidedly not how I would have handled it and I had to compensate a second time for it's own management features, nearly causing rather than helping to avoid, an accident.
I guess my point is that on a low end, innexpensive car like the Lancer it's not so much of a sales or performance sticking point. Hell, a lot of drivers will turn off the ESC/TSC if possible when driving aggressively at the track in my experience, especially for launches or some cornering/slides.
And I will agree fully that if it's an option take it and it should count in your decision to buy or not buy. As a major point of decision I am not so sure, but it's definately in the mix (everyone has different priorities). For me the platforms handling, stabilty, excellent braking system, BFDS, and class leading airbag setup offset the lack of ESC... it was on my mind believe it or not as my last two cars have had ESC/TCS.
Thanks for the reply. When I say ESC, I mean ESC, stability control where the yaw rate of the car is monitored and controlled. ABS with brake force distribution is not stability control, but rather a sub unit with far less functionality that is a component of an ESC system. True ESC systems are a whole league beyond ABS with EBD. As far as traction control goes, this again is a whole different animal that strictly deals with getting you started from a stop in slippery weather and is of zero value at 35 or 45 mph when you slide.
If you get a chance, google the Bosch ESP website and watch some of the videos, you may find them interesting.
Take care and good talking with you.
Correct, many drivers on a track will disable ESC. This is due to the fact that on a track, you are in a much more controlled and predictable environment than on the open road, unless you are out and out racing as in the Indy 500 or something like that. As far as the average person with a little track time, there is a lot more structure than when you are flying down the interstate in the rain at 65 MPH with 100 other cars around you piloted by possibly weak drivers.
Would the Lancer benefit from ESC (or at least TCS)? Sure. Is it missed... not by most consumer considering this car at this price point, nor by all drivers.
I have another issue with my Lancer's radio that I am trying to figure out.
I programed my favorite stations into the memory and when I try to use the button to change stations on the steering wheel, instead of switching to my memory stations, It just scans the radio stations. Is there a way I could fix this?
With a heavy body and solid suspension design and really good brakes and an ample portion of common sense(which includes speed control on highways and biways)the new 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer is a solid, safe and steady vehicle as it comes from Japan.
No, I don't want to construe that it isn't someone's perogative to pass on the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer because it lacks ESC. I respect someone wanting to be a safe driver and wanting their rig to have up-to-date safety-enhancing equipment and yes, that is totally their own choice to make.
I just don't agree that I need to have ESC on my '08 Lancer GTS in order to be completely safe, so many outside factors influence safety during driving. A very healthy dose of careful, common-sense driving is still IMO the best defense against getting in to a nasty car accident. My right foot has been programmed by my brain to be a rev-limiter through the years. Accident avoidance includes many other factors, yes, but not having ESC still doesn't ring true as being totally necessary on all new world order cars. I am open to read up some more to edumacate myself further.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Luck!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I figure a healthy dose of common sense, employment of learned driving skills in the particular situation that arises, large 4 corner disc brakes the size of Mitsu's Outlander SUV and ABS brakes w/EBD is more than enough. Seriously.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Once you get it to work the system is really awesome. Voice recognition is superb, either dialing by number or by name. Bluetooth is one feature of the Lancer that constantly gets "ooohs" and "wows" from my passengers when I demonstrate its capabilities.
I want to know if you can help me with a radio issue that I have. I am trying to figure out how to fix this issue.
My issues:
I programed my favorite stations into the memory and when I try to use the button to change stations on the steering wheel, instead of switching to my memory stations, It just scans the radio stations. Is there a way I could fix this?
I also want to know if you have a IPOD adapter? I am contemplating in buying the Mitsubishi Kit (mz607411ex) but I am not sure it lets you play your playlist.
Thanks
Ipod: If you mean integration as in controlling it from your HU as well as remote wheel controlls then there is nothing just yet. I would expect one shortly, and it's likely if there is one for the Outlander it will work with the Lancer.
On ESC:
Kia Optima ( http://www.kia.com/optima/optima-features.php ) it's only an option on all models. Comparing a GTS Lancer to a OPtima EX I4 you pay 600 for that option and another 1500 for the appearance package, 800 for the sunroof... and it still is not as good looking, well handling, or nearly as well equipped as the GTS while being over $1000 more in cost.
Hyundai Sonata ( http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/sonata/trim/comparetrim.aspx ) has it standard along with active head restraints. Kudos. However half the model line has been discontinued, it gets worse mileage and performs questionably, and even fully loaded can't touch many of the features of the Lancer let alone handling, braking, interior room, etc. A SE with comporable equipment to the Lancer is nearly $24K, and it still lacks Nav, BT, a good stereo, looks, handling, 18" rims and performance tires, etc.
Scion. I have to assume you mean the Tc. To get it close in equipment bumps the price up to a hair over $23 and that's without Nav, a lesser stereo, no BT, less safety features, lesser braking performance and handling. And it's a 2dr coup with a shorter warranty to boot. And the Tc does not have ESC ( http://www.scion.com/#tCStandardFeatures_safety )
The Rabbit can't compete on equipment, even fully loaded. Dunno about handling or braking, but in terms of reliability and warranty the Lancer should be a win as well given the recent bad history of electrical and engine problems with VW cars including the Rabbit. It's also slightly more expensive, and they are not going to lower the price or deal nearly as much given the brand. Less airbags too. And I can't tell if it has ESC, TCS, or BFD - it's certainly not listed on their site. The IHS shows it as optional, but when you go to build a Rabbit it's not given as an option you can add on.
The Jetta... its a lot more money to get it equipped similarly.
The Sandman :confuse:
When you are talking about the Optima's price, you are not including discounts and incentives that are readily available and cut a few thousand bucks off its price. Also, what is the problem with ESC being an option on the Optima, when it isn't even available on the Lancer? And ESC is available on the Optima without the appearance package and moonroof--there are posts to that effect in the Optima discussion here.
What do you mean by, "half the model line has been discontinued" on the Sonata? In fact, the model line has just been doubled by adding GLS V6, SE I4, and Limited I4 models for 2008. The fuel economy of the I4 Sonata is about the same as the I4 Lancer, but the Sonata has more power and is a much larger car. In braking, the Sonata is no slouch. And it has the interior room of a full-sized car, and is classified as such by the EPA. How is the Lancer classified, for interior room? A Sonata SE I4 is in no way close to $24k when equipped like a comparable Lancer; the SE I4 starts under $20k and discounts/rebates are readily available. But it's a different class of car entirely, competing with the Galant, not the Lancer.
As for the Rabbit, traction control is standard and ESC is a readily-available option, as are side rear torso airbags, giving it a total of 8--which is one more than the Lancer offers. With alloys, ESC, and 8 airbags, the Rabbit 3-door lists for about $17k--around the same price as the Lancer ES.
VW does well in resale but it is $20k for a 4 door model. Also if VW's electrical engineers can't figure out how to end the plague of circuitry woes, why should I be burdened with them?
Sonata and Optima are good cars. I would buy either one in the V6 trim, however, resale is low and depreciation high on both. I own an 06 Kia Sportage and it's a fine, quality sport-ute.
The new Lancer looks like the complete package except for the engine reviews. The wheels, Nav, brakes, solid chassis, warranty, and handling are much improved from the last model. But it too had poor resale values. The new model may possibly rectify the shortcomings of previous Lancers.
Just my 2 cents
On the Sonata. When I went to their site they showed half the models as discontinued on their comparo page (hence my comment). The Sonata was brought up by you, and they are indeed pricing out higher on MSRP for comparables with the GTS lancer. I honestly don't know that car (don't trust the brand... my brother had another from that maker just a few years ago and it was a shop queen... was in the shop more than it got driven) but the Lancer's interior room is surprising. In comparing it to my last car, a 04 GrandPrix the lancer has more leg room front and back, more headroom by a wide margin, and while the trunk is smaller, it's not that much smaller... but I believe it is considered a compact sedan (And rightfully so).
On the rabbit... I still can't find squat anywhere that lists ESC as an option so I will have to take your word for it. You would think the manufacturer would put stuff like that on their site. The extra airbags are optional as is ESC, and to equip one to the GTS Lancer level the price is higher and the equipment not as good.
Many people are walking out the dealer door with a loaded GTS Lancer for under 21, some under 20... FYI.
Thanks for the corrections. And I do agree that no TCS or possibly ESC as an option or standard is a shortfall in the model. They will be available in late 07/early 08 with the next two models to emerge and I suspect given that the idiot lights on the dash have a TC and ESC indicator not covered in the manual that it is in the plan. I personally don't find much value in ESC myself, but I am not a particularly weak driver either (IMHO)... but for most it is a good option to have definately.
VW has a big problem on their hands with customer service, electrical and computer systems, etc. Shame, I looked hard at them before making a purchase (along with Mazda3).
Agree on the Sonata and Optima... and they have their own quality issues it seems. Resale is why I went away from GM and Ford (buy american!) after all these years. I have had two GPs, and Grand Am, a V6 Stang, an Escort, a F150, a SunBird (turboLE), an Explorer Sport, along with a single dodge and a Celica. Also owned a Monte Carlo (totally hot rodded), and driven for very extended times a Ranger, a Tercel, and probably several others I forget now. The GM's have universally been strong running, dead reliable vehicles but the false perception of bad quality and dated tech/design (okay, mostly false) kills their resale and I just got sick of it.
On the Lancer engine. It's actually surprisingly peppy. I really suspect two things from the reviews I have seen. The drivers aren't doing any break in training (the ECU learns how you shift and drive the car and tweaks itself to better perform to your expectations) and they aren't properly managing the manualmatic shifter on the CVT. If you leave it in drive the car takes a bit before it builds power in the higher rev band, but if you drive it's artificial gears it can actually chirp the tires, even smoke them a bit and wipe more than a second off it's accel times easy. Resel hasn't been great, but it's been better than my GMs of late that's for sure, and I feel the same that this new line will hold value better (much better) than the last.
If you configure the Rabbit here at edmunds.com, you can see ESC as an option.
BTW, how do you know the GTS is the most popular Lancer? Do you have sales figures broken down by trim line? I would think the most popular trim is the mid-level ES, which along with the DE is all I see advertised in my local paper.