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Comments
Actually the point I was trying to make - that it was likely cost prohibitive - holds whether the issue was satellites, cells or even replacement units in the cars.
I probably have more trouble with the fact that they didn't put it units that could be both analog and digital in the first place. It's not like no one knew digital was coming.
> the fact that they didn't put it units that could be both analog and digital in the first place.
The first cellphones I have had were analog up to a year or so ago. Why didn't the cellphone companies sell analog-digital cell phones all the time. "It's not like no one knew digital was coming." ????
Foresight is much better for those not doing the engineering in advance when they can look at it in hindsight.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This isn't some sudden discovery.
When they came out with Onstar analog was everywhere and digital was just in the beginning stages.
Certainly the line had to get drawn somewhere. I'm just of a mind that says in the age of 6 year car loans (not that I would get such a thing) marketing equipment that goes obsolete before the car is paid for doesn't strike me as a good way to keep customers.
My thought on the deal was that if I renewed for a period that would go past Jan 1, 2008, they would need to provision for an upgrade (May 2005 + 3 year would be May 2008.) So, now I expire in August 2007 and unless I get the upgrade they will only renew me on a month to month basis through December.
I'm considering doing a 2 year renewal (if the $15 upgrade applies) between now and August (and get another 3 months free). We switched from Sprint to Verizon wireless about 2 months after I renewed the Onstar in 2005. I might just add that as another line to our Verizon shared minute family plan if I can ($10 for each additional line and we have an excess of minutes on our current plan.)
If I do the 2 year (3 month free) again and pay $15 for the upgrade, then the 6 free months from the 2 renewals is worth about $100 savings off their normal price...so, I will be a little ahead in the long run. Still not completely convinced the value of On-Star is worth it, but I guess it might be if you have a air-bag deployment or had to have them locate a stolen vehicle.
Thinking about that we may not really know about On-Star until the Analog starts going away. When I was reading up on the equipment, the upgrade to digital seemed to say you would be analog & digital then. I think on my phone I can distinguish what I am connected through, but I don't know that you can if using the On-Star.
The cell phone companies were complaining that it was costing them too much to keep a redundant mostly unused system operational, they are the ones that lobbied the FCC for this ruling. Now that everything is digital and all new phones are set up to run on the digital networks there is no need for the analog service. The FCC had to give the go ahead because in the license it stated they had to maintain both systems, and if they didn't they would lose the rights to run any of the cellular equipment.
On my Sprint phone I get digital roam at our cottage, where I used to get analog roam. Onstar doesn't tell you if you are on digital or analog, only red or green light to tell you if you were on or off the network.
I think the charge for roaming on Verizon analog is a buck a minute.
I had a customer stop by a few weeks ago. He needed the Onstar upgrade, so I got his name, number, VIN, mileage, and asked which package (Safe and Sound $199/Directions and Connections $399) he needed. I ordered the upgrade kit and called him when it came in. In the meantime, he went surfing on Onstar's website and ordered a year's subscription. When we did the upgrade, I charged him for a year subscription and the $15 fee. He did not want 2 years, he thought he had to order the subscription and all we were doing was the upgrade. After about 1/2 hour on the phone with several people at Onstar, we got him straightened out.
The moral of the story-the dealership will charge you for the package +$15 for your upgrade. Onstar charges our GM open account automatically when we order the upgrade kit.
Supposedly, Onstar will only sell 1 month of service at a time for vehicles that are still analog-but this guy was able to buy a year.
Also, the new subscription gets tacked onto the end of whatever time you have left on your current subscription. If you get phone minutes, they add on, too. You don't lose your old minutes. Your phone number will change, however. There is no way for the dealership to let you keep your old number. (I've had a couple of people peeved about that
My first question concerns the availability of OnStar with the upcoming 2008 Chevrolet AVEO models: Does anyone out there know if OnStar will be made available with the '08 AVEO, either as standard equipment or extra cost option...at least with the more expensive versions?
Does anyone ever think that maybe GM should license other automobile manufacturers, notably imports, with OnStar?
And last, but not least: Why haven't copycat companies come up with an OnStar like service. OnStar has monopolized this market long enough. What's up with that?
Cheers...
Peace! :shades:
-Rocky
I'm not sure about the '08 Aveo, they tend to be tight lipped about that stuff until just a few weeks before you can order one from the dealer. A good dealer will tell you if it will be an option in the next model, they have been sent the package on the model changes, they just want to sell the stuff on the lot so they don't offer the info unless you ask and persist about not wanting a '07.
I would not be surprised if someone did not come out with some sort of hack/upgrade that would allow a transition to a newer system. I have looked into this a ton, and know that the manufacturers are pretty solid on the information. I know with mercedes, MOST vehicles after 2000 (aka 2001+) have available upgrade paths.
As far as I know, the cars that used the OnStar branded system were ALL GM Products, Acura, VW, Audi, Lexus and SAAB. I agree that it is pretty crappy that they did this, and that something that is a safety system, should not be able to be made obsolete.
To be clear... currently there are two companies out there that offer this type of service. OnStar (which has their own call center) and BMW Assist (uses the ATX call center) and I am not quite who mercedes uses, but I think it might also be ATX.
The FCC complaint email address is fccinfo@fcc.gov
The only offer GM made to me was a free additional year of Onstar service if I purchase a new Onstar-equipped vehicle. And when will they obsolete THAT system?
Then I'll sue Dell too because it only has a 500mhz processor, when I'm sure they knew there were going to be better processors someday.
And I'll sue Verizon themselves, because all my old cell phones from previous years will be useless.
I hope the sarcasm is coming through loud and clear.
I mean, when I bought my first car in the 70's, I had an 8-track system. That became obsolete when cassette tapes became the rage. Then we got CDs, instead of casettes. And each time I, along with the rest of America, upgraded.
Same thing with video taping--beta tapes, the VCR, then DVDs. Again, I upgraded each time.
The other thing that bugs me about about this issue is when something new first comes out, it's expensive. Wait a little bit and prices drop (microwave ovens, digital cameras, HD TVs, etc.).
Now, if you can fins one, they'll give it to you free with a tank of gas....
They were giving Onstar away in 03. It was preinstalled on my brother's (the same brother actually)Saab. Free year of service. He took the free year and then dumped it, but for those that found it useful I think a four year useful life is cutting it short. They certainly weren't selling it as "oh, and in four years it will be obsolete."
Unlike an 6 track which you could still paly now if you were so inclined, this is dead. Dead. Dead.
That said, I don't see it in the courts. I can't see why GM couldn't make a better offer than a smaller discount for your trouble than you get because it's a holiday weekend.
I think of it as a public relations blunder. I guess they don't.
Here in upstate NY we are tougher than you people in the rest of the country. We don't baby our drivers. Why on some parts of I-87 there isn't even cell service so I doubt your fancy On Star would even work. Sure, every so often a few weenies drive off a cliff and freeze to death because there is no cell service, but who cares? Better to thin out the weak than to offend the wildlife with those ugly cell towers.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Maybe GM could offer special "Analog Onstar Service Dogs" to the affected people. The dog would bark and grab your keys if you tried to lock them inside, a behavior that seems to be common to Onstar users. I'd have to figure out the finer points like what happens if the car breaks down.
ROTFLMFAO!!
I don't think Toyota has anything like OnStar to add value to its cars.
>I think a class action law suit should put the last nail in their coffin.
That's a ridiculous statement. The earlier models that aren't able to be modified, before whatever year it is, probably have 1% of the original owners still paying the fee for monthly service. Many will have been traded out already and the next owners aren't going to pay the monthly fee for the OnStar service.
Your argument is a nonstarter to me. Who cares. The later models are adaptable and OnSTar will do it free for a year's contract. Honda can't do that... they don't have Onstar either.
I have OnStar on my car and it's adaptable and I don't care. I used it for a couple of years and dropped it.
Save the hateful threats for companies that put in bad transmissions in their cars and extend the warranties to 100K so long term owners eventually end up paying for a bad transmission. Save the threats for companies that build motors that sludge up. Save the threats for companies that put transmissions on their cars that have a shift flare and have a dangerous lag when quick acceleration is called for...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In fact I believe the largest recall in automotive history belongs to Toyota. So they did surpass all auto companies in that for sure. Enjoy the articles I linked below, few word say volumes...
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107619
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-05-31-toyota_x.htm
Almost all of the import car company recalls are not widely published in mainstream media, and the ones that are only make it to the 25th page of section R of the newspapers. I'm not saying that th US automakers don't have room for improvement, what I am saying is the imports have problems too, they are not just buy and drive forever like they want you to believe.
Week of July 16th go to the Gulf coast for vacation. SES light comes on but performance & fuel mileage seem the same. Get back that weekend and decide to put vehicle in Monday for the SES light and On-Star upgrade since the wife is going to be out of town on business leaving Monday, returning mid Thursday. Drop it off Monday afternoon and wait on a call from service. Call them late Tuesday, SES was fixed for less than $100, but the On-Star upgrade takes 2 days...we don't keep them in stock. So, finally ready Thurday and pick it up. Okay.
Monday, 4 days or so after upgrade, I get my credit card bill. $2.26 charge for On-Star Subscription. So, I call them up and ask about it. "Oh, your subscription would run out August 13 and that charge gets you to August 17 for your billing date." Well, I never was asked or authorized it so I made them take it off for the principal of the issue. I looked at my On-Star account on-line today and it has not been updated to show the subscription through mid August 2008. So, I guess I'll have to keep and eye on my account and make sure I get the year renewal I paid for and don't get charge any additional monthly subscription. If I do get charged next month, I'll be demanding 2 for one credit.
Oh, I noticed on their web page that their monthly fees are going up by $2 in October or November, but you can avoid the increase by extending your renewal before that time :-).
We can't keep them in stock. Each upgrade kit is VIN-specific. We need your VIN, mileage, name, address, what package you want; all before we can order the kit. Kit usually takes a day or two to get. I've been getting the info when the customer first calls, ordering the kit, THEN making an appointment. It works pretty smoothly that way.
That's totally squirrelly about your subscription/billing date junk. I'm surprised I haven't heard any complaints on that yet.
If you have phone minutes, be sure they got rolled over into the new plan-I've had one customer have an argument with OnStar about her minutes.
Hum, there are what 3-4 model years analog, digital capable to upgrade. How many different kits can there be? Anyway, Memphis is THE central distribution spot for the US. Many parts banks are here and ship all over.
I'm thinking what they did on the subscription/billing date was preparing me to go on month to month since I had not upgraded at that time...but they jumped the gun by almost a month, just 2 days after the date on the letter about upgrading. Waiting on the next months credit card bill to make sure the credit is there and no additional charges.
Have never used On-Star as a phone. Have never added it to our Verizon Wireless plan, had to have the digital upgrade to do that. I doubt that we will since it would be another number to manage. IF Tennessee ever passes a cell phone driver law and I can not get the wife to use the Bluetooth earpiece we got her when we upgraded phones recently, then we might.
I just found out by putting in my VIN number that i have analog only so are you saying i can buy something to get me over to digital? If so what did you do or how did you do it?
According to this latest letter, the Aurora now is capable of being upgraded, and that I'll get more info as to when the upgraded equipment will be available. Any others have a similar experience?
I really do not feel sorry for GM and could care less if they go down the tubes. They have nobody to blame but themselves for poor management and failed business decisions. The inmates are running the prison at GM.
Think I am nuts? Well, I am a Business Development Manager for a Fortune 500 company and have a Masters in Business as well. I am no expert by any means, but I can tell you that GM is a hot topic at every graduate school in the US on a daily basis as an example of what not to do. Only Enron has them beat.
My company is also a supplier to GM. A pretty large supplier too. We have sales engineers that work at the plants. I have been onsite myself. One factory has 6 dedicated guys that mow the lawn and they all make over $100k. The boiler operators make close to $150k....a job that would normally pay $40 - 60k....and they all sit around and eat donuts and [non-permissible content removed] about the next contract dispute.
GM made their bed....now we all have to sleep in it.
Well that Masters in Business, did pay-off because you sure have a way of posting distorted numbers. :sick:
If you hate GM, so much then don't leach off of them with your company. :sick: Please next time before you go postal get your facts straight because nobody at GM, mowing the lawn makes $100K nor do they make $150K as a boiler operator. :mad:
-Rocky
P.S. I do think you have a right to complain about the OnStar issue though.
I thought GM came up with a solution for the analog Onstar vehicles? Though it is not GM that is to blame. It is the FCC and the Cellular carriers that petitioned the FCC to do away with analog. Not all Cellular carriers are dropping their analog service next year. It is still the best in rural areas. I think it sounds better than any of the digital systems. It is all about bandwidth and making more money with less equipment.
GM is NOT the culprit..They are as much a victim as the consumer on this one. Why should GM have to pay. Try to get your celllular carrier to give you a new cell phone when your old analog is outdated. They may offer you a deal for a new one just like GM is doing.
PS
I thought all his claims were too far out to even respond.
https://www.myonstar.com/adt.os
I can't understand why you think they owe you $850! You paid for a service and it was provided , plain and simple. I find it hard to believe you have a business degree and don't understand this simple concept. If you don't want to use the $3500 it's up to you, but if On Star was that important and you're so tweaked out that you won't be able to use it why NOT get another GM car equipped with the new digital box?! Why don't you throw in that you want the GM supplier discount money as well, I mean if you were going to buy GM you wouldn't turn down the discount, so you're entitled to it right?! If On Star is such a vital tool in your driving maybe you should consider the fact that the only other company I know that has a similar system is Benz, and from the guy I know that has had both On Star knocks the other one out of the park.
The FCC decided not to force the cell companies to continue upkeep of the analog cell towers that make your On Star work. How can On Star take your money and not be able to provide the service consistently?! Either you failed to mention, or didn't know is that GM and On Star have lobbied AGAINST this for some time, and began developing On Star boxes that could be upgraded as soon as legislation was drafted to get rid of analog service. Who knows how much money was spent sending people to Washington DC to address this issue for people like you with the analog system. They didn't throw you away, they tried to keep your service intact because as a consumer you wanted the service. Do you really think that On Star and GM wanted to lose the money you paid every year for On Star service?!
As far as the attack you made on the GM workers there are a few things you should know before spouting off.
First, GM contracted out ALL lawn service, snow removal, and landscaping at ALL facilities around 12 years ago. There is no one working directly working for GM getting paid to cut the grass. They might be paying $100k/yr to an outside contractor, but no one is getting a GM paycheck for cutting the grass.
Second the boiler makers running the power plants get paid the same skilled trade wage as any other skilled trades worker. GM sold the power plants to the local power companies but gets a huge discount on the power they use because they provide staffing for these facilities. They run 2 shifts at our power plant and the boiler makers work a 6 day week. So when you figure in the OT of 28 hours a week at time and a half they do make a decent wage, buy remember they work 68 hours a week, not much time for family life! The powerhouse has to be manned 24/7/365, no exceptions.
As a GM supplier you have a duty to keep from bad mouthing the company that ultimately pays your wage. You never ever crap where you eat, it's a basic rule. If GM is such a bad company you should talk to your boss and see about not selling to them anymore, and watch a pink slip come across you desk when it happens.