Actually the point I was trying to make - that it was likely cost prohibitive - holds whether the issue was satellites, cells or even replacement units in the cars.
I probably have more trouble with the fact that they didn't put it units that could be both analog and digital in the first place. It's not like no one knew digital was coming.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
> the fact that they didn't put it units that could be both analog and digital in the first place.
The first cellphones I have had were analog up to a year or so ago. Why didn't the cellphone companies sell analog-digital cell phones all the time. "It's not like no one knew digital was coming." ????
Foresight is much better for those not doing the engineering in advance when they can look at it in hindsight.
Fair enough. I don't go back that far in a cell phone and quite honestly if the only people that were affected were ones that bought in the mid 90s it wouldn't bother me as much. It would be in that "free upgrade from 8 track to CD" category.
Certainly the line had to get drawn somewhere. I'm just of a mind that says in the age of 6 year car loans (not that I would get such a thing) marketing equipment that goes obsolete before the car is paid for doesn't strike me as a good way to keep customers.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
fezo: I think you nailed the issue esp. since GM market this as safety equipment. The fact GM upgraded the ONstar equipment in 2003 to make it compatible for digital and analog tells me they planned for this analog shut down. Not sure why they did not make an upgrade available for analog only equipment esp. for the active accounts. At 500k units, I bet it would have cost less then $50 for each unit. Easily make that up in the monthly service costs.
I renewed 2 years ago and got 3 extra months 'free'. Expires in about August of this year... Soon after that I found out about the 3 year renewal/free upgrade that I could have done. I thought about check with them to see if I could buy another year to qualify for the 3 year free upgrade program. Never did try that back then and I doubt it is that retroactive.
My thought on the deal was that if I renewed for a period that would go past Jan 1, 2008, they would need to provision for an upgrade (May 2005 + 3 year would be May 2008.) So, now I expire in August 2007 and unless I get the upgrade they will only renew me on a month to month basis through December.
I'm considering doing a 2 year renewal (if the $15 upgrade applies) between now and August (and get another 3 months free). We switched from Sprint to Verizon wireless about 2 months after I renewed the Onstar in 2005. I might just add that as another line to our Verizon shared minute family plan if I can ($10 for each additional line and we have an excess of minutes on our current plan.)
If I do the 2 year (3 month free) again and pay $15 for the upgrade, then the 6 free months from the 2 renewals is worth about $100 savings off their normal price...so, I will be a little ahead in the long run. Still not completely convinced the value of On-Star is worth it, but I guess it might be if you have a air-bag deployment or had to have them locate a stolen vehicle.
Digital On-Star coverage. How much dead area is there on the Verizon coverage area? Verizon provides the network for the On-Star coverage. I went and looked and there 'seems' to be much more digital coverage than Analog on their map. I know my recent Verizon phone has much better coverage without going analog than my previous Sprint (2000-2005) did. I don't travel enough to be able to give it a real test (digital Verizon coverage).
Thinking about that we may not really know about On-Star until the Analog starts going away. When I was reading up on the equipment, the upgrade to digital seemed to say you would be analog & digital then. I think on my phone I can distinguish what I am connected through, but I don't know that you can if using the On-Star.
Digital took over everything. Verizon is the main carrier for Onstar and they don't have very many dead zones that I can see on the map. Onstar and Verizon have roaming agreements with all the other cell companies that operate where Verizon doesn't so you still have Onstar service outside of the verizon areas.
The cell phone companies were complaining that it was costing them too much to keep a redundant mostly unused system operational, they are the ones that lobbied the FCC for this ruling. Now that everything is digital and all new phones are set up to run on the digital networks there is no need for the analog service. The FCC had to give the go ahead because in the license it stated they had to maintain both systems, and if they didn't they would lose the rights to run any of the cellular equipment.
On my Sprint phone I get digital roam at our cottage, where I used to get analog roam. Onstar doesn't tell you if you are on digital or analog, only red or green light to tell you if you were on or off the network.
Just looking at Verizon coverage for San Diego CA. A big share does not have any coverage. When you get out in the desert it shows analog only. When that goes away, Onstar will be limited in remote areas. Digital is not very good in remote locations. Where I am right now on the Big Island is analog roam only. It will be interesting to see if Verizon cuts off a lot of customers with no other alternative.
I think the charge for roaming on Verizon analog is a buck a minute.
I'm not getting in on the big debate, but I thought I'd let ya'll know:
I had a customer stop by a few weeks ago. He needed the Onstar upgrade, so I got his name, number, VIN, mileage, and asked which package (Safe and Sound $199/Directions and Connections $399) he needed. I ordered the upgrade kit and called him when it came in. In the meantime, he went surfing on Onstar's website and ordered a year's subscription. When we did the upgrade, I charged him for a year subscription and the $15 fee. He did not want 2 years, he thought he had to order the subscription and all we were doing was the upgrade. After about 1/2 hour on the phone with several people at Onstar, we got him straightened out.
The moral of the story-the dealership will charge you for the package +$15 for your upgrade. Onstar charges our GM open account automatically when we order the upgrade kit.
Supposedly, Onstar will only sell 1 month of service at a time for vehicles that are still analog-but this guy was able to buy a year.
Thanks for the info, I was wondering how that was supposed to work. So I understand this correctly I come in and order the upgrade. After the upgrade is installed I go in and pay the dealer for everything. Onstar is paid through the dealership and I will be set for a year.
Exactly. Also, the new subscription gets tacked onto the end of whatever time you have left on your current subscription. If you get phone minutes, they add on, too. You don't lose your old minutes. Your phone number will change, however. There is no way for the dealership to let you keep your old number. (I've had a couple of people peeved about that )
Profit at GM is down 90% for the past quarter. How else do you expect them to make any profit? You got the $500 towards a new vehicle...did you expect more from a company who is now no. 2 globally and lost profit to boot?
My first question concerns the availability of OnStar with the upcoming 2008 Chevrolet AVEO models: Does anyone out there know if OnStar will be made available with the '08 AVEO, either as standard equipment or extra cost option...at least with the more expensive versions?
Does anyone ever think that maybe GM should license other automobile manufacturers, notably imports, with OnStar?
And last, but not least: Why haven't copycat companies come up with an OnStar like service. OnStar has monopolized this market long enough. What's up with that?
Lexus, has tried to offer a OnStar like package but I'm not sure if they still have it. I believe the Acura RL, has or had OnStar. I did not know BMW, offered OnStar. I believe VW, offered Onstar also in the past but maybe I'm confusing that with the Monsoon Stereo equipment ????
One night after dinner I asked my friend's wife what that black thing on the roof of her new bimmer was. She replied Onstar. Had a good laugh on that one. Asked her if she had the first year free and yup she does. Doesn't plan to purchase after the first year though.
GM is supposed to have Onstar availability in all of it's cars by '09. They say that it will be standard in most, but not all models.
I'm not sure about the '08 Aveo, they tend to be tight lipped about that stuff until just a few weeks before you can order one from the dealer. A good dealer will tell you if it will be an option in the next model, they have been sent the package on the model changes, they just want to sell the stuff on the lot so they don't offer the info unless you ask and persist about not wanting a '07.
BMW offers a system called ASSIST. It has been digital since its inception, and uses the verizon network. Mercedes has a system called TeleAid, and switched from the ATT TDMA Network to the Verizon network around 2003-2004. The best resource for checking out if your car is able to be upgraded, is to go to OnStar.com and click on this link: http://www.onstar.com/us_english/jsp/digital_transition.jsp
I would not be surprised if someone did not come out with some sort of hack/upgrade that would allow a transition to a newer system. I have looked into this a ton, and know that the manufacturers are pretty solid on the information. I know with mercedes, MOST vehicles after 2000 (aka 2001+) have available upgrade paths.
As far as I know, the cars that used the OnStar branded system were ALL GM Products, Acura, VW, Audi, Lexus and SAAB. I agree that it is pretty crappy that they did this, and that something that is a safety system, should not be able to be made obsolete.
To be clear... currently there are two companies out there that offer this type of service. OnStar (which has their own call center) and BMW Assist (uses the ATX call center) and I am not quite who mercedes uses, but I think it might also be ATX.
I have sent complaints to the FCC, my 2 U.S. senators, and U.S. congressman.
The FCC complaint email address is fccinfo@fcc.gov
The only offer GM made to me was a free additional year of Onstar service if I purchase a new Onstar-equipped vehicle. And when will they obsolete THAT system?
I searched the 2008 Order Guide and at least for early production cars On-Star is not an option on the Korean sourced Aveo or Aveo5. It is shown as a free flow option on the '08 Cobalt. BTW my wife was annoyed when she could no longer use her favorite "Star-Tac" phone as its analog service was being phased out. The new digital phone does however have much longer battery life than her late lamented Motorola.
I have a computer with Windows 98 still, which isn't supported anymore. I feel ripped off and think I'll sue Microsoft so they start doing security updates and software revisions for it again. Same goes for my XP computer here soon when they cut off that support. And while I'm at it, I'll sue them AGAIN because I can't play the new Halo 2 video game without upgrading to Windows Vista, since it won't work with any older system already on the market.
Then I'll sue Dell too because it only has a 500mhz processor, when I'm sure they knew there were going to be better processors someday.
And I'll sue Verizon themselves, because all my old cell phones from previous years will be useless.
I hope the sarcasm is coming through loud and clear.
Could not agree with you more. And I have an '03 Olds Aurora that's affected and cannot be upgraded (AAA will do just fine!) I also have an '04 Bonneville that can be upgraded, and I will on my next service visit.
I mean, when I bought my first car in the 70's, I had an 8-track system. That became obsolete when cassette tapes became the rage. Then we got CDs, instead of casettes. And each time I, along with the rest of America, upgraded.
Same thing with video taping--beta tapes, the VCR, then DVDs. Again, I upgraded each time.
The other thing that bugs me about about this issue is when something new first comes out, it's expensive. Wait a little bit and prices drop (microwave ovens, digital cameras, HD TVs, etc.).
Have you looked at VCR prices lately? IF you can find them even. I think Best Buy was in the area of 25 bucks. I believe we paid 400+ for our first one in the 80's. Remember it being a big deal, as we watched Harry and the Hendersons at home!
While I don't agree that Onstar is in the same boat, the story is certainly true in electronics. I remember my brother being an early adopter on the VCR. Was as big as a Buick, top loaded and the remote had a cord! You could only record two programs in advance.
Now, if you can fins one, they'll give it to you free with a tank of gas....
They were giving Onstar away in 03. It was preinstalled on my brother's (the same brother actually)Saab. Free year of service. He took the free year and then dumped it, but for those that found it useful I think a four year useful life is cutting it short. They certainly weren't selling it as "oh, and in four years it will be obsolete."
Unlike an 6 track which you could still paly now if you were so inclined, this is dead. Dead. Dead.
That said, I don't see it in the courts. I can't see why GM couldn't make a better offer than a smaller discount for your trouble than you get because it's a holiday weekend.
I think of it as a public relations blunder. I guess they don't.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I never saw the need for On Star in the first place. Why not just carry a cell phone. Why do you need an operator to dial 911 or AAA?
Here in upstate NY we are tougher than you people in the rest of the country. We don't baby our drivers. Why on some parts of I-87 there isn't even cell service so I doubt your fancy On Star would even work. Sure, every so often a few weenies drive off a cliff and freeze to death because there is no cell service, but who cares? Better to thin out the weak than to offend the wildlife with those ugly cell towers.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
It's good to see a nice, reasoned response in here....
Maybe GM could offer special "Analog Onstar Service Dogs" to the affected people. The dog would bark and grab your keys if you tried to lock them inside, a behavior that seems to be common to Onstar users. I'd have to figure out the finer points like what happens if the car breaks down.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
The cell phone function of On-Star has much greater transmission power than a hand held unit. Reception in fringe areas is supposed to be better. Consider also that an On-Star operator instantly know where you are, a regular cell system operator may not have quick access to your triangulated location.
Well what do have to say about the poor smucks who need Onstar for their GM product before 2002 you Moron. How are they to get the latest when GM so Sorry you out of luck. It just goes to show why the GM Corp is going bankrupted and Toyota is surpassing them in every department including customer service. I think a class action law suit should put the last nail in their coffin.
No one NEEDS Onstar! A class action lawsuit is going to go nowhere because it's NOT GM's fault that the analog cell system is not going to be maintained. You get mad about the issue but no company, including Toyota, would be putting out R&D money to create a new Onstar box to retrofit the older cars. It's not a warranty issue and it's not a safety issue, Onstar is not mandated by the NTSB or MVSS so it's not going to be something that money will be spent on.
>GM Corp is going bankrupted and Toyota is surpassing them in every department
I don't think Toyota has anything like OnStar to add value to its cars.
>I think a class action law suit should put the last nail in their coffin.
That's a ridiculous statement. The earlier models that aren't able to be modified, before whatever year it is, probably have 1% of the original owners still paying the fee for monthly service. Many will have been traded out already and the next owners aren't going to pay the monthly fee for the OnStar service.
Your argument is a nonstarter to me. Who cares. The later models are adaptable and OnSTar will do it free for a year's contract. Honda can't do that... they don't have Onstar either.
I have OnStar on my car and it's adaptable and I don't care. I used it for a couple of years and dropped it.
Save the hateful threats for companies that put in bad transmissions in their cars and extend the warranties to 100K so long term owners eventually end up paying for a bad transmission. Save the threats for companies that build motors that sludge up. Save the threats for companies that put transmissions on their cars that have a shift flare and have a dangerous lag when quick acceleration is called for...
Most of all let's not forget the most famous hybrid of all stalling at highway speed and will not restart. Then there's the power steering that goes out leaving the driver unable to steer the vehicle.
In fact I believe the largest recall in automotive history belongs to Toyota. So they did surpass all auto companies in that for sure. Enjoy the articles I linked below, few word say volumes...
Almost all of the import car company recalls are not widely published in mainstream media, and the ones that are only make it to the 25th page of section R of the newspapers. I'm not saying that th US automakers don't have room for improvement, what I am saying is the imports have problems too, they are not just buy and drive forever like they want you to believe.
'04 Envoy XL analog, digital capable system. Renewed for 2 year plus 3 months free after 1st year, so my paid up plan would run out in mid August of 2007. Got my upgrade offer letter from On-Star dated July 17th, take it into dealer, pay 1 year renewal + $15 and get upgraded to digital system and be able to have On-Star after Dec 31, 2007. Okay, I'll bite on that offer even though we don't use it much.
Week of July 16th go to the Gulf coast for vacation. SES light comes on but performance & fuel mileage seem the same. Get back that weekend and decide to put vehicle in Monday for the SES light and On-Star upgrade since the wife is going to be out of town on business leaving Monday, returning mid Thursday. Drop it off Monday afternoon and wait on a call from service. Call them late Tuesday, SES was fixed for less than $100, but the On-Star upgrade takes 2 days...we don't keep them in stock. So, finally ready Thurday and pick it up. Okay.
Monday, 4 days or so after upgrade, I get my credit card bill. $2.26 charge for On-Star Subscription. So, I call them up and ask about it. "Oh, your subscription would run out August 13 and that charge gets you to August 17 for your billing date." Well, I never was asked or authorized it so I made them take it off for the principal of the issue. I looked at my On-Star account on-line today and it has not been updated to show the subscription through mid August 2008. So, I guess I'll have to keep and eye on my account and make sure I get the year renewal I paid for and don't get charge any additional monthly subscription. If I do get charged next month, I'll be demanding 2 for one credit.
Oh, I noticed on their web page that their monthly fees are going up by $2 in October or November, but you can avoid the increase by extending your renewal before that time :-).
but the On-Star upgrade takes 2 days...we don't keep them in stock.
We can't keep them in stock. Each upgrade kit is VIN-specific. We need your VIN, mileage, name, address, what package you want; all before we can order the kit. Kit usually takes a day or two to get. I've been getting the info when the customer first calls, ordering the kit, THEN making an appointment. It works pretty smoothly that way.
That's totally squirrelly about your subscription/billing date junk. I'm surprised I haven't heard any complaints on that yet.
If you have phone minutes, be sure they got rolled over into the new plan-I've had one customer have an argument with OnStar about her minutes.
Well, I was taking the vehicle in anyway for a SES light and got the On-Star upgrade done at the same time. Only when I called late in the first day to check if it was ready did the service mgr talk about having to order it. Really more of a lack of communication, but when I got a follow-up survey about my upgrade experience there were a couple of questions that seemed to indicate the upgrades might be in stock.
Hum, there are what 3-4 model years analog, digital capable to upgrade. How many different kits can there be? Anyway, Memphis is THE central distribution spot for the US. Many parts banks are here and ship all over.
I'm thinking what they did on the subscription/billing date was preparing me to go on month to month since I had not upgraded at that time...but they jumped the gun by almost a month, just 2 days after the date on the letter about upgrading. Waiting on the next months credit card bill to make sure the credit is there and no additional charges.
Have never used On-Star as a phone. Have never added it to our Verizon Wireless plan, had to have the digital upgrade to do that. I doubt that we will since it would be another number to manage. IF Tennessee ever passes a cell phone driver law and I can not get the wife to use the Bluetooth earpiece we got her when we upgraded phones recently, then we might.
The estimate of how many analog systems that are still under subscription agreements is approximately 500,000 out of 2 million total, with total current subscriptions being approximately 4 million. OnStar's customer loss will be only 10%(+/-). Many of these subscribers will lose their signals and service and still have prepaid subscriptions and prepaid hands free phone minutes remaining. I have asked On Star how they intend to reimburse me for my unused subscriptions/minutes on two vehicles that share this analog problem - 2002 suburban and a 2003 subaru outback vdc. The response from customer service said that my inquiry has been "escalated" to a higher level of authority to answer. If there was an affirmative existing policy in this regard, I assume they would have given me the "sure you will be reimbursed" answer I was looking for. Their escalation causes me to believe that ON Star doesn't have a plan for reimbursement - the aggregate reimbursements could be many tens of millions of dollars and the actual administration of such an effort would be costly to execute as well. If there is a cause for class action it would be for the recovery of all outstanding balances for subscriptions and prepaid phone minutes left as of 12/31/07. Has anyone heard about ON Star's position regarding this?
I just found out by putting in my VIN number that i have analog only so are you saying i can buy something to get me over to digital? If so what did you do or how did you do it?
wrong,wrong,wrong.............. i work for a bmw dealer as a tech,its known as bmw assist,it goes not,repeat not have all the functions and capacities as on-star,and fyi .the bmw system at times will faulter,or fail if a non approved blue tooth phone is paired to the vehicle,a situation which bmw is aware of ,some of gms car can have blue tooth,but with on star ,well at least on my pontiac grandprix gtp coupe,you just push the whitw button on the mirror and say the number you want to dial,with bmw assist ,the capacities vary by car series,but i have never ever seen one unlock doors,honk the horn,flash the headlights,or open the trunk........gm has a great system,and im piping made my pontiac is not change able to digital
Earlier this year, I got a letter from GM/OnStar stating that my 2003 Olds Aurora's analog OnStar would not be upgradable to the new system. So, when my OnStar term expired in May, I simply did not renew as it would only be good to the end of 2007. I also got a letter that my 2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP was upgradable, and I did that. The offer is clever--they "upgrade" for $15, but require an additional one-year On-Star commitment, $199, paid at the time the upgrade is done.
According to this latest letter, the Aurora now is capable of being upgraded, and that I'll get more info as to when the upgraded equipment will be available. Any others have a similar experience?
I am very ticked about this OnStar BS. Anyone know of a lawyer looking for clients? I had a 2002 Suburban impacted by this which I just traded in. I refused to buy a GM product because they have completely ignored my letters and calls. I also have a 2003 Saab which is still under factory bumper to bumper warranty. I plan to drop the car off after the new year stating that the OnStar does not work...should be fun to watch this happen. Think about it....I paid extra $ to have the car equipped with the system, and now I have buttons that are useless. They owe me $850 as far as I am concerned. They also owe me the $3500 I have in rebate dollars on my GM Card that I can't use.
I really do not feel sorry for GM and could care less if they go down the tubes. They have nobody to blame but themselves for poor management and failed business decisions. The inmates are running the prison at GM.
Think I am nuts? Well, I am a Business Development Manager for a Fortune 500 company and have a Masters in Business as well. I am no expert by any means, but I can tell you that GM is a hot topic at every graduate school in the US on a daily basis as an example of what not to do. Only Enron has them beat.
My company is also a supplier to GM. A pretty large supplier too. We have sales engineers that work at the plants. I have been onsite myself. One factory has 6 dedicated guys that mow the lawn and they all make over $100k. The boiler operators make close to $150k....a job that would normally pay $40 - 60k....and they all sit around and eat donuts and [non-permissible content removed] about the next contract dispute.
GM made their bed....now we all have to sleep in it.
One factory has 6 dedicated guys that mow the lawn and they all make over $100k. The boiler operators make close to $150k....a job that would normally pay $40 - 60k....and they all sit around and eat donuts and [non-permissible content removed] about the next contract dispute.
Well that Masters in Business, did pay-off because you sure have a way of posting distorted numbers. :sick:
If you hate GM, so much then don't leach off of them with your company. :sick: Please next time before you go postal get your facts straight because nobody at GM, mowing the lawn makes $100K nor do they make $150K as a boiler operator. :mad:
-Rocky
P.S. I do think you have a right to complain about the OnStar issue though.
I do think you have a right to complain about the OnStar issue though
I thought GM came up with a solution for the analog Onstar vehicles? Though it is not GM that is to blame. It is the FCC and the Cellular carriers that petitioned the FCC to do away with analog. Not all Cellular carriers are dropping their analog service next year. It is still the best in rural areas. I think it sounds better than any of the digital systems. It is all about bandwidth and making more money with less equipment.
GM is NOT the culprit..They are as much a victim as the consumer on this one. Why should GM have to pay. Try to get your celllular carrier to give you a new cell phone when your old analog is outdated. They may offer you a deal for a new one just like GM is doing.
PS I thought all his claims were too far out to even respond.
I can't wait for you to pull in at the SAAB dealer and try that! They are going to laugh you out the door!! This is not a warranty issue, it's a phasing out of analog cell service issue. The warranty doesn't and never will cover this type of problem. If you go to this site and punch in the VIN you will see if your car can be upgraded. If your car can be upgraded there will be a $15 upgrade fee and you MUST pay for one year of On Star service in advance before they will do the work.
I can't understand why you think they owe you $850! You paid for a service and it was provided , plain and simple. I find it hard to believe you have a business degree and don't understand this simple concept. If you don't want to use the $3500 it's up to you, but if On Star was that important and you're so tweaked out that you won't be able to use it why NOT get another GM car equipped with the new digital box?! Why don't you throw in that you want the GM supplier discount money as well, I mean if you were going to buy GM you wouldn't turn down the discount, so you're entitled to it right?! If On Star is such a vital tool in your driving maybe you should consider the fact that the only other company I know that has a similar system is Benz, and from the guy I know that has had both On Star knocks the other one out of the park.
The FCC decided not to force the cell companies to continue upkeep of the analog cell towers that make your On Star work. How can On Star take your money and not be able to provide the service consistently?! Either you failed to mention, or didn't know is that GM and On Star have lobbied AGAINST this for some time, and began developing On Star boxes that could be upgraded as soon as legislation was drafted to get rid of analog service. Who knows how much money was spent sending people to Washington DC to address this issue for people like you with the analog system. They didn't throw you away, they tried to keep your service intact because as a consumer you wanted the service. Do you really think that On Star and GM wanted to lose the money you paid every year for On Star service?!
As far as the attack you made on the GM workers there are a few things you should know before spouting off.
First, GM contracted out ALL lawn service, snow removal, and landscaping at ALL facilities around 12 years ago. There is no one working directly working for GM getting paid to cut the grass. They might be paying $100k/yr to an outside contractor, but no one is getting a GM paycheck for cutting the grass.
Second the boiler makers running the power plants get paid the same skilled trade wage as any other skilled trades worker. GM sold the power plants to the local power companies but gets a huge discount on the power they use because they provide staffing for these facilities. They run 2 shifts at our power plant and the boiler makers work a 6 day week. So when you figure in the OT of 28 hours a week at time and a half they do make a decent wage, buy remember they work 68 hours a week, not much time for family life! The powerhouse has to be manned 24/7/365, no exceptions.
As a GM supplier you have a duty to keep from bad mouthing the company that ultimately pays your wage. You never ever crap where you eat, it's a basic rule. If GM is such a bad company you should talk to your boss and see about not selling to them anymore, and watch a pink slip come across you desk when it happens.
Comments
Actually the point I was trying to make - that it was likely cost prohibitive - holds whether the issue was satellites, cells or even replacement units in the cars.
I probably have more trouble with the fact that they didn't put it units that could be both analog and digital in the first place. It's not like no one knew digital was coming.
> the fact that they didn't put it units that could be both analog and digital in the first place.
The first cellphones I have had were analog up to a year or so ago. Why didn't the cellphone companies sell analog-digital cell phones all the time. "It's not like no one knew digital was coming." ????
Foresight is much better for those not doing the engineering in advance when they can look at it in hindsight.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This isn't some sudden discovery.
When they came out with Onstar analog was everywhere and digital was just in the beginning stages.
Certainly the line had to get drawn somewhere. I'm just of a mind that says in the age of 6 year car loans (not that I would get such a thing) marketing equipment that goes obsolete before the car is paid for doesn't strike me as a good way to keep customers.
My thought on the deal was that if I renewed for a period that would go past Jan 1, 2008, they would need to provision for an upgrade (May 2005 + 3 year would be May 2008.) So, now I expire in August 2007 and unless I get the upgrade they will only renew me on a month to month basis through December.
I'm considering doing a 2 year renewal (if the $15 upgrade applies) between now and August (and get another 3 months free). We switched from Sprint to Verizon wireless about 2 months after I renewed the Onstar in 2005. I might just add that as another line to our Verizon shared minute family plan if I can ($10 for each additional line and we have an excess of minutes on our current plan.)
If I do the 2 year (3 month free) again and pay $15 for the upgrade, then the 6 free months from the 2 renewals is worth about $100 savings off their normal price...so, I will be a little ahead in the long run. Still not completely convinced the value of On-Star is worth it, but I guess it might be if you have a air-bag deployment or had to have them locate a stolen vehicle.
Thinking about that we may not really know about On-Star until the Analog starts going away. When I was reading up on the equipment, the upgrade to digital seemed to say you would be analog & digital then. I think on my phone I can distinguish what I am connected through, but I don't know that you can if using the On-Star.
The cell phone companies were complaining that it was costing them too much to keep a redundant mostly unused system operational, they are the ones that lobbied the FCC for this ruling. Now that everything is digital and all new phones are set up to run on the digital networks there is no need for the analog service. The FCC had to give the go ahead because in the license it stated they had to maintain both systems, and if they didn't they would lose the rights to run any of the cellular equipment.
On my Sprint phone I get digital roam at our cottage, where I used to get analog roam. Onstar doesn't tell you if you are on digital or analog, only red or green light to tell you if you were on or off the network.
I think the charge for roaming on Verizon analog is a buck a minute.
I had a customer stop by a few weeks ago. He needed the Onstar upgrade, so I got his name, number, VIN, mileage, and asked which package (Safe and Sound $199/Directions and Connections $399) he needed. I ordered the upgrade kit and called him when it came in. In the meantime, he went surfing on Onstar's website and ordered a year's subscription. When we did the upgrade, I charged him for a year subscription and the $15 fee. He did not want 2 years, he thought he had to order the subscription and all we were doing was the upgrade. After about 1/2 hour on the phone with several people at Onstar, we got him straightened out.
The moral of the story-the dealership will charge you for the package +$15 for your upgrade. Onstar charges our GM open account automatically when we order the upgrade kit.
Supposedly, Onstar will only sell 1 month of service at a time for vehicles that are still analog-but this guy was able to buy a year.
Also, the new subscription gets tacked onto the end of whatever time you have left on your current subscription. If you get phone minutes, they add on, too. You don't lose your old minutes. Your phone number will change, however. There is no way for the dealership to let you keep your old number. (I've had a couple of people peeved about that
My first question concerns the availability of OnStar with the upcoming 2008 Chevrolet AVEO models: Does anyone out there know if OnStar will be made available with the '08 AVEO, either as standard equipment or extra cost option...at least with the more expensive versions?
Does anyone ever think that maybe GM should license other automobile manufacturers, notably imports, with OnStar?
And last, but not least: Why haven't copycat companies come up with an OnStar like service. OnStar has monopolized this market long enough. What's up with that?
Cheers...
Peace! :shades:
-Rocky
I'm not sure about the '08 Aveo, they tend to be tight lipped about that stuff until just a few weeks before you can order one from the dealer. A good dealer will tell you if it will be an option in the next model, they have been sent the package on the model changes, they just want to sell the stuff on the lot so they don't offer the info unless you ask and persist about not wanting a '07.
I would not be surprised if someone did not come out with some sort of hack/upgrade that would allow a transition to a newer system. I have looked into this a ton, and know that the manufacturers are pretty solid on the information. I know with mercedes, MOST vehicles after 2000 (aka 2001+) have available upgrade paths.
As far as I know, the cars that used the OnStar branded system were ALL GM Products, Acura, VW, Audi, Lexus and SAAB. I agree that it is pretty crappy that they did this, and that something that is a safety system, should not be able to be made obsolete.
To be clear... currently there are two companies out there that offer this type of service. OnStar (which has their own call center) and BMW Assist (uses the ATX call center) and I am not quite who mercedes uses, but I think it might also be ATX.
The FCC complaint email address is fccinfo@fcc.gov
The only offer GM made to me was a free additional year of Onstar service if I purchase a new Onstar-equipped vehicle. And when will they obsolete THAT system?
Then I'll sue Dell too because it only has a 500mhz processor, when I'm sure they knew there were going to be better processors someday.
And I'll sue Verizon themselves, because all my old cell phones from previous years will be useless.
I hope the sarcasm is coming through loud and clear.
I mean, when I bought my first car in the 70's, I had an 8-track system. That became obsolete when cassette tapes became the rage. Then we got CDs, instead of casettes. And each time I, along with the rest of America, upgraded.
Same thing with video taping--beta tapes, the VCR, then DVDs. Again, I upgraded each time.
The other thing that bugs me about about this issue is when something new first comes out, it's expensive. Wait a little bit and prices drop (microwave ovens, digital cameras, HD TVs, etc.).
Now, if you can fins one, they'll give it to you free with a tank of gas....
They were giving Onstar away in 03. It was preinstalled on my brother's (the same brother actually)Saab. Free year of service. He took the free year and then dumped it, but for those that found it useful I think a four year useful life is cutting it short. They certainly weren't selling it as "oh, and in four years it will be obsolete."
Unlike an 6 track which you could still paly now if you were so inclined, this is dead. Dead. Dead.
That said, I don't see it in the courts. I can't see why GM couldn't make a better offer than a smaller discount for your trouble than you get because it's a holiday weekend.
I think of it as a public relations blunder. I guess they don't.
Here in upstate NY we are tougher than you people in the rest of the country. We don't baby our drivers. Why on some parts of I-87 there isn't even cell service so I doubt your fancy On Star would even work. Sure, every so often a few weenies drive off a cliff and freeze to death because there is no cell service, but who cares? Better to thin out the weak than to offend the wildlife with those ugly cell towers.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Maybe GM could offer special "Analog Onstar Service Dogs" to the affected people. The dog would bark and grab your keys if you tried to lock them inside, a behavior that seems to be common to Onstar users. I'd have to figure out the finer points like what happens if the car breaks down.
ROTFLMFAO!!
I don't think Toyota has anything like OnStar to add value to its cars.
>I think a class action law suit should put the last nail in their coffin.
That's a ridiculous statement. The earlier models that aren't able to be modified, before whatever year it is, probably have 1% of the original owners still paying the fee for monthly service. Many will have been traded out already and the next owners aren't going to pay the monthly fee for the OnStar service.
Your argument is a nonstarter to me. Who cares. The later models are adaptable and OnSTar will do it free for a year's contract. Honda can't do that... they don't have Onstar either.
I have OnStar on my car and it's adaptable and I don't care. I used it for a couple of years and dropped it.
Save the hateful threats for companies that put in bad transmissions in their cars and extend the warranties to 100K so long term owners eventually end up paying for a bad transmission. Save the threats for companies that build motors that sludge up. Save the threats for companies that put transmissions on their cars that have a shift flare and have a dangerous lag when quick acceleration is called for...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In fact I believe the largest recall in automotive history belongs to Toyota. So they did surpass all auto companies in that for sure. Enjoy the articles I linked below, few word say volumes...
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107619
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-05-31-toyota_x.htm
Almost all of the import car company recalls are not widely published in mainstream media, and the ones that are only make it to the 25th page of section R of the newspapers. I'm not saying that th US automakers don't have room for improvement, what I am saying is the imports have problems too, they are not just buy and drive forever like they want you to believe.
Week of July 16th go to the Gulf coast for vacation. SES light comes on but performance & fuel mileage seem the same. Get back that weekend and decide to put vehicle in Monday for the SES light and On-Star upgrade since the wife is going to be out of town on business leaving Monday, returning mid Thursday. Drop it off Monday afternoon and wait on a call from service. Call them late Tuesday, SES was fixed for less than $100, but the On-Star upgrade takes 2 days...we don't keep them in stock. So, finally ready Thurday and pick it up. Okay.
Monday, 4 days or so after upgrade, I get my credit card bill. $2.26 charge for On-Star Subscription. So, I call them up and ask about it. "Oh, your subscription would run out August 13 and that charge gets you to August 17 for your billing date." Well, I never was asked or authorized it so I made them take it off for the principal of the issue. I looked at my On-Star account on-line today and it has not been updated to show the subscription through mid August 2008. So, I guess I'll have to keep and eye on my account and make sure I get the year renewal I paid for and don't get charge any additional monthly subscription. If I do get charged next month, I'll be demanding 2 for one credit.
Oh, I noticed on their web page that their monthly fees are going up by $2 in October or November, but you can avoid the increase by extending your renewal before that time :-).
We can't keep them in stock. Each upgrade kit is VIN-specific. We need your VIN, mileage, name, address, what package you want; all before we can order the kit. Kit usually takes a day or two to get. I've been getting the info when the customer first calls, ordering the kit, THEN making an appointment. It works pretty smoothly that way.
That's totally squirrelly about your subscription/billing date junk. I'm surprised I haven't heard any complaints on that yet.
If you have phone minutes, be sure they got rolled over into the new plan-I've had one customer have an argument with OnStar about her minutes.
Hum, there are what 3-4 model years analog, digital capable to upgrade. How many different kits can there be? Anyway, Memphis is THE central distribution spot for the US. Many parts banks are here and ship all over.
I'm thinking what they did on the subscription/billing date was preparing me to go on month to month since I had not upgraded at that time...but they jumped the gun by almost a month, just 2 days after the date on the letter about upgrading. Waiting on the next months credit card bill to make sure the credit is there and no additional charges.
Have never used On-Star as a phone. Have never added it to our Verizon Wireless plan, had to have the digital upgrade to do that. I doubt that we will since it would be another number to manage. IF Tennessee ever passes a cell phone driver law and I can not get the wife to use the Bluetooth earpiece we got her when we upgraded phones recently, then we might.
I just found out by putting in my VIN number that i have analog only so are you saying i can buy something to get me over to digital? If so what did you do or how did you do it?
According to this latest letter, the Aurora now is capable of being upgraded, and that I'll get more info as to when the upgraded equipment will be available. Any others have a similar experience?
I really do not feel sorry for GM and could care less if they go down the tubes. They have nobody to blame but themselves for poor management and failed business decisions. The inmates are running the prison at GM.
Think I am nuts? Well, I am a Business Development Manager for a Fortune 500 company and have a Masters in Business as well. I am no expert by any means, but I can tell you that GM is a hot topic at every graduate school in the US on a daily basis as an example of what not to do. Only Enron has them beat.
My company is also a supplier to GM. A pretty large supplier too. We have sales engineers that work at the plants. I have been onsite myself. One factory has 6 dedicated guys that mow the lawn and they all make over $100k. The boiler operators make close to $150k....a job that would normally pay $40 - 60k....and they all sit around and eat donuts and [non-permissible content removed] about the next contract dispute.
GM made their bed....now we all have to sleep in it.
Well that Masters in Business, did pay-off because you sure have a way of posting distorted numbers. :sick:
If you hate GM, so much then don't leach off of them with your company. :sick: Please next time before you go postal get your facts straight because nobody at GM, mowing the lawn makes $100K nor do they make $150K as a boiler operator. :mad:
-Rocky
P.S. I do think you have a right to complain about the OnStar issue though.
I thought GM came up with a solution for the analog Onstar vehicles? Though it is not GM that is to blame. It is the FCC and the Cellular carriers that petitioned the FCC to do away with analog. Not all Cellular carriers are dropping their analog service next year. It is still the best in rural areas. I think it sounds better than any of the digital systems. It is all about bandwidth and making more money with less equipment.
GM is NOT the culprit..They are as much a victim as the consumer on this one. Why should GM have to pay. Try to get your celllular carrier to give you a new cell phone when your old analog is outdated. They may offer you a deal for a new one just like GM is doing.
PS
I thought all his claims were too far out to even respond.
https://www.myonstar.com/adt.os
I can't understand why you think they owe you $850! You paid for a service and it was provided , plain and simple. I find it hard to believe you have a business degree and don't understand this simple concept. If you don't want to use the $3500 it's up to you, but if On Star was that important and you're so tweaked out that you won't be able to use it why NOT get another GM car equipped with the new digital box?! Why don't you throw in that you want the GM supplier discount money as well, I mean if you were going to buy GM you wouldn't turn down the discount, so you're entitled to it right?! If On Star is such a vital tool in your driving maybe you should consider the fact that the only other company I know that has a similar system is Benz, and from the guy I know that has had both On Star knocks the other one out of the park.
The FCC decided not to force the cell companies to continue upkeep of the analog cell towers that make your On Star work. How can On Star take your money and not be able to provide the service consistently?! Either you failed to mention, or didn't know is that GM and On Star have lobbied AGAINST this for some time, and began developing On Star boxes that could be upgraded as soon as legislation was drafted to get rid of analog service. Who knows how much money was spent sending people to Washington DC to address this issue for people like you with the analog system. They didn't throw you away, they tried to keep your service intact because as a consumer you wanted the service. Do you really think that On Star and GM wanted to lose the money you paid every year for On Star service?!
As far as the attack you made on the GM workers there are a few things you should know before spouting off.
First, GM contracted out ALL lawn service, snow removal, and landscaping at ALL facilities around 12 years ago. There is no one working directly working for GM getting paid to cut the grass. They might be paying $100k/yr to an outside contractor, but no one is getting a GM paycheck for cutting the grass.
Second the boiler makers running the power plants get paid the same skilled trade wage as any other skilled trades worker. GM sold the power plants to the local power companies but gets a huge discount on the power they use because they provide staffing for these facilities. They run 2 shifts at our power plant and the boiler makers work a 6 day week. So when you figure in the OT of 28 hours a week at time and a half they do make a decent wage, buy remember they work 68 hours a week, not much time for family life! The powerhouse has to be manned 24/7/365, no exceptions.
As a GM supplier you have a duty to keep from bad mouthing the company that ultimately pays your wage. You never ever crap where you eat, it's a basic rule. If GM is such a bad company you should talk to your boss and see about not selling to them anymore, and watch a pink slip come across you desk when it happens.