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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?



  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Nooo, the new cadillac would not be going after the 1 series. that is going to be a tiny car and not suited for american roads and luxury. I believe it is a gamble that will not pay off for them UNLESS they really make it some kind of mini sporty car that kicks a**. The $29K caddy would be a 3 series size.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    that is going to be a tiny car and not suited for american roads and luxury.

    The 1er is about the same size and weight as the '90s 3er was.

    I believe it is a gamble that will not pay off for them UNLESS they really make it some kind of mini sporty car that kicks a**.


    You're likely correct about a RWD BLS matching up with the current fat bloated sack of a 3er.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The Ultra (at 5 liters and perhaps 400 hp) would make some sense in the CTS as an option over the DI 3.6. The big question here is what Cadillac does with the sigma lineup in the future. The 2008 CTS is going to be somewhat bigger than the current CTS (wider), so adding the V8 as a top of the line trim to the CTS would allow the STS to move more up market and could become a V8-V12 model for the future.

    As I see it the Ultra is a replacement for the northstar, so I do not see them as different engines in the long term. I do understand that the ultra is all new, and hopefully much better.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Ok it does look like something that younuns will buy. How much will it be?
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I would guess the base versions would theoretically be in the upper $20s, but the vast majority would actually go out the door in the low-mid $30s, and a loaded 135i might get close to $40k.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Ahh the price of Luxury!!!

    And that is how this discussion got started!!
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    The only V8 we will see in this new CTS, is in the CTS-V with a supercharged 7.0 V8 putting out 550-600 hp. ;)

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    in plain english, the CTS-V will get the Corvette V8.

    GM's not taking any shortcuts this time around. Expect to see fur flying when this 5-series killer comes out in the fall.

    Yes, it IS a 5 series/E-Class/A6 competitor. Cadillac has wisely decided to not do small cars in the U.S. Ever. Get over it. Move on. The CTS is just properly priced without the badge markup. And it's going to blow a hole in the sales of those old stodgy designs. Almost 55K CTS sales last year - that's pretty respectable.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,197
    7.0 V8 putting out 550-600 hp.

    What's the gas milage on that one Rocky? :cry:
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Somehow I don't think gas mileage will matter to the average buyer...
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    And where is GM going to get this 7-liter blower? The super Corvette is only getting a supercharged 6.2L. If GM wants any real prestige for the CTS-V, it should be the car to introduce the Ultra V8, in twin-turbo form.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    Who the heck cares? I doubt the person who will buy a car with a 600 hp engine has fuel economy as the highest priority. "Gee, I wonder if my 1970 Plymouth Superbird with the 426 Hemi gets better fuel economy than a Toyota Yaris?"
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,197
    I think the typical buyer might not have MPG as their top priority, but it's still a factor. I'd much rather have Corvette type gas mileage in my supercar than say, the Hummer.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I think that the next gen CTS_V may get the Ultra, but that is my guess.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    I predict Highway fuel economy numbers will be 26-30 mpg because of the tall over-drive. ;)

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    bumpy, nobody knows the details yet....

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I predict Highway fuel economy numbers will be 26-30 mpg because of the tall over-drive.
    Heh. Your fault if you get the automatic.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    Well the 6th gear in the automatic is pretty tall also. ;)

  • autoboy16autoboy16 Posts: 992
    Yes the RL is the flagship and was a total wash out. I admit honda screwed it up. Think of the MDX as the flagship. The MDX costs almost $50k fully loaded and IMO is a better value than the RL. The TL is also a better value than the RL.

    One space where I see car companies mess up in terms of sales is overlapping. Lets take BMW for example.

    The 335i with 300hp or a base 528i with 230hp? For a mom with a kid, she'd get the 5. A father would get the 3.

    Also lexus messed up in that department also.
    The gs' 303hp 3.5l v6 or the 298hp 4.3l v8?

    Acura overlapped the TSX and TL(Base) somewhat but there is difference between the two. Thats something caddy did with the STS and DTS. I hope the Next DTS is FWD. The DTS in the lineup is like Lexus' ES. Its a tweener. Its for people who want a large car with comfort from a certain brand. Sort of like acuras RL but the RL is too small.

    More than likely, The next STS will be made with the next Impala and Pontiac G8. Thats probably what Lutz will do.

  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The next DTS will be RWD and probably will be a zeta platform model (like the G8 and Camaro). What is not clear is what they will do with the STS. The RWD DTS will be a large car (larger than the G8). The price tag will probably remain somewhere near the current levels.

    I don't really see the overlap at BMW though. The 335i is under $40,000 before options, while the base 5-series (525) is over $40,000. But more to the point, a 3-series is a different car than the 5-series. The FWD DTS is also a different car than the STS. Even when the RWD DTS is in production, the current STS will be a different car. By the time a RWD DTS goes into production, we may have a new STS too, so there may be some overlap, if both are zeta platform models.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Posts: 992
    The Cadillac is a good overlap example. With bmw, I meant overlap is in where one model finishes, another starts. The 40k 335i coupe or the 528i sedan? The 550i sedan or a 650i? Still, not a great example...

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    2008 CTS Details


    Here are somethings I got from the salesman's guide on the 2008 CTS, that wasn't well-known by the public.

    *LED light pipes in headlamps and taillamps
    *No visable moldings around fron and rear glass, to provide a clean look.
    *Largest exterior gap tolerance is 3mm.
    *Ultra View Sunroof covers over 70% of the roof.
    *CTS will only use Michelin tires.
    *All interior gap tolerances are between 1mm and 2mm.
    *All control knobs were tunred for feel.
    *Every interior touch point was engineered to be soft-to-the-touch (glove box, door assist handles, center console, etc.)
    *Wooven headliners and pillars.
    *White ambient LED lighting in door pulls, foot wells, and recessed between upper and lower IP's.
    *Front seats use "thin seat" technology.
    *Optional "Mulberry" leather seating.
    *Available Forward Lighting System and Xenon HID headlamps.
    *Available power rake/telescoping steering column.
    *Available heated steering wheel.
    *Four way power lumbar and articulating head restraints.
    *DVD-based navigation system--30% faster at route calculation that current systems.
    *8" high-resolution full VGA infotainment display/navigation system and full touch-screen.
    *Smart Remote Start System--automatically activates climate control, heated/cooled seats.
    *RainSense Wipers
    *Heated Windshield Wash System--heats up to 80-degrees Celsius.
    *In-dash 6-disc DVD changer--supports variety of media.
    *Standard 8-speaker Bose sound system
    *Optional Bose True Surround Sound Audio--10 speakers, 300 watts.
    *Integrated Hard Disc Drive--USB jack in cent console, CD's downloadable to HDD, and digital audio recording capability.
    *4-wheel disc brakes with Dynamic Rear Brake Proporioning--for improved braking in corners.
    *3 suspension levels--FE1, FE2, FE3
    *Standard Premium ZF Servotronic Steering Gear
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I guess what you mean by overlap is a price overlap, where one can choose a loaded 3-series or a base 5-series for about the same money. Or, at Cadillac, one can get a loaded CTS for about $42,500. This is the same price as a base STS (V6) or base DTS (V8).

    The point is that the 3-series is a 6 cylinder car with very good handling. The 5-series is a bigger, more luxurious sedan that, with the 6, will not handle quite as well. The Cadillacs are also 3 different cars, with the CTS a V6 car, that being smaller, will handle better than the STS, which is bigger. The DTS is a FWD luxury barge style of car. I can't see that anyone who knows what they are buying will be confused about what they want. I would probably prefer the CTS with a nav to the base STS.

    What I am thinking about getting is an SRX program car though.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Price overlap is in every vehicle manufaturer out there. Why even discuss it? Just the way it is. Why does a slightly larger car have to be more expensive than a slightly smaller car?

    That would only work if they both had the same features on all versions of each model. But that is not the way it works. The buying Public, the market, wants a range of choices on, say the 3 series, and the 5 series. A base 5 series will have less equipment than a loaded 3 series so they will overlap in how much they cost. So I guess the question is should BMW not sell the lightly featured 5 series? I would say not since they seem to be selling them.
  • jkr2106jkr2106 Posts: 231
    *Smart Remote Start System--automatically activates climate control, heated/cooled seats.

    Looks good, if I had the money I'd definately get one (hopefully one of my parents will consider it in 2010). I'm a little old-fashioned, though (even though I'm only 18) about this technology. What I would much rather see Cadillac have standard is keyless start (as in a button on the dash). Remote start is a nice option for those who want it, but I don't like the prospect of falling asleep with my keys in my pocket and finding the car running.

    Is keyless start available w/o remote start? That would make Cadillac the Standard of MY World. :blush:
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    Hitting a button is not a major sales decider for me. Well your 18, and thus have a lot of options. I don't know your finacial situation but you can get a very nice used luxury car that you probably can afford. My suggestions would be used Bonnevilles, Olds Aurora's, Buick Rivera's from 95-99, Cadillac's Sevilles, Devilles, Eldorado's, CTS's ;) All of these cars would be cheaper on insurance and you would have a powerful nice car being just 18. Just a suggestion :)

  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Hitting a button is not a major sales decider for me."

    Hey, rock....I don't think any of those examples have keyless start. Just because they may not be a major sales decider for you, doesn't mean they aren't for someone else.... ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    Good god hitting a button to start my car on the inside is a deal breaker ? I'd rather have a keyless start feature than hitting a button on the dash to start my car. The keyless remote on the 08' CTS also allows me to turn on my heated seats or AC/Ventialtion function in the CTS, which is more important to me. ;)

  • jkr2106jkr2106 Posts: 231
    While I'm sure those are really nice cars, when I do get my car, it will be much smaller and RWD or (preferably) AWD. Plus, I want something a little more current than the obsolete Aurora/Riviera/Seville/Deville/Eldorado. My dream car right now which will never be produced is a Cadillac CTS-V Coupe AWD automatic.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Whos says it will never be produced? yea, you are right, it may not be an automatic.
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