Where is Honda taking Acura?

rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
I've watched in my lifetime Honda take Acura from a small car brand to a premium luxury division that not only builds cars but now also produces luxurious gadget filled SUV's. I'm just waiting for Honda, to make a Acura truck to complete the line-up and my best guess it will happen after the VTEC V8 and/or V10 come on-line. ;)

Rocky
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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Any idea's, thoughts, where y'all see Acura headed ???

    Rocky
  • derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    Well the new MD-X is being pitched as somewhat of a cut-price BMW X5. The RD-X targets the X3, too.

    I think with the next generation of Acuras, they'll move the TSX and TL upmarket (after all, they killed the RSX to appear more upmarket). They'll make the TSX different from the Euro Accord and pitch it at the 3-Series more, maybe even pit the TL and RL against the 5 and 7-Series, respectively. They'll try and hold onto their value/bang for your back card as long as possible, so I don't see FWD going away for a while.

    I think they'll also market their technological attributes more, and most likely spread SH-AWD across the range. The first stop in their rise to the top will be Audi.

    They make a great range of cars at the moment (with the possible exception of the boring-as-sin RL), and I think they've cornered the near-luxury market. Next stop? Luxury. Stay tuned.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    derrado1,

    That was a good post..... :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/category/cat.Acura

    Rocky

    P.S. I hope that is the next SH-AWD TSX !!!! :surprise: If I was Acura, I'd add another turbocharger to the Honda 4-cylinder and run circles around EVO's and WRX's :D
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Mom, said Gentex, is going to start building more mirrors for Honda and Acura. A promotion was offered to employees in a drawing that would allow them to drive a Acura TL for a day full of fuel at each plant. I was hoping mom would win but some other lady won. :( Gentex, FYI also will start selling mirrors to Lexus.....

    Rocky
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 17,460
    there is just something about a fwd that needs to pretend it is a rwd based awd that bothers me. :sick:
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT
  • derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    Well that's unfortunate.

    I had to giggle though... you put the commas in the wrong place, so it looked like Gentex was telling you over a cup of coffee that your mother secured a big contract to build mirrors for Honda.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    explorer,

    I understand your concern but in all honesty it doesn't bother me at all. If it works....it works... right ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    derrado,

    I apologize for my grammer. I admit I stink. Please find it in your heart to forgive me. ;)

    Rocky
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    rockylee: I've watched in my lifetime Honda take Acura from a small car brand to a premium luxury division that not only builds cars but now also produces luxurious gadget filled SUV's.

    Acura started out as a luxury car division with the Legend. Honda, however, also gave Acura the sporty, small, relatively inexpensive Integra, which showed its somewhat schizophrenic approach to the division. This approach has persisted since 1986.

    Over time, while Lexus has been accepted as a full-fledged luxury car maker, Acura has settled into the near-luxury range.

    Today Acura appears to be jettisoning its small cars - hence, the demise of the RSX - and moving to near-luxury SUVs and sporty sedans. The forays into the true luxury market have been mixed since Acura dumped the Legend for the RL.

    The RL shows its Honda roots too clearly for a vehicle in the $50,000+ segment. Plus, people buying vehicles in those segments want a V-8 and the option of rear wheel drive, neither of which are offered by Acura.

    At this point, Acura reminds me of Pontiac in the 1960s - a marque that is clearly a step up from its more plebian sibling (Chevrolet for Pontiac; Honda for Acura), with strong sport-luxury overtones, but definitely not a full-fledged luxury marque.

    And if it keeps offering the RL with a V-6 and styling that resembles a buff Accord as its flagship, it won't be accepted as a full-fledged luxury marque.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    grbeck,

    I loved the post pal... ;)

    I say I pretty much agree with all that you had to say. I OTOH don't want Acura, to become a
    "full blooded" (Texas redneck word) luxury car maker. I think once you cross that line you can get a little soft. I agree Acura blundered the RL project by not offering a V8. OTOH they could of added a couple of those turbochargers from the RDX, and advertise the RL has Twin-Turbo power and that would of worked alot better than doing nothing ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    It looks like Acura, copied "Delphi's Magneride" system that is found on the Corvette, and many Cadillacs. Ferrari, bought the system from Delphi, and I don't know why Acura, just didn't do the same ? I see audi bought it also for the Audi R8 ;)

    Acura's- "Active Damper System" is a carbon copy knock-off of "Magneride". I wonder if Delphi's systems patent ran out or is Acura, took a cue from the Chin-E class and clone a good thang when they see it ?

    Regardless the MDX, has a "Magneride" cloned suspension which will no doubt put it at the top of the class for the perfect balance of ride comfort and performance. ;)

    Rocky

    http://www.delphi.com/news/pressReleases/pr_2006_11_30_001/

    http://www.acura.com/index.aspx?initPath=MDX
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Did you see the drawing for next TSX ? If that car get Acura's new Turbocharger that might be a car worth looking into, eh ? I forgot you are kinda against AWD, but then again SH-AWD will probably be a option on the TSX. I predict Acura, will offer the consumer premium value that meets or exceeds the competition within the next couple of years. Acura's future has never looked better than it does today. The customer has a brand-new MDX, RDX, and will soon have a new NSX, TL, TSX, RL, in the next couple of years all which look very promising based on speculation/rumors.

    I'd love to give the Type-S TL a test drive but unfortunately for me I don't have a local dealership nearby. :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Does anyone know what other engine applications if any Acura, will use there new
    "state of the art" turbo on ???

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    TORRANCE, Calif. — Acura has released a teaser sketch of its Advanced Sports Car Concept, which will make its debut on January 7 at the North American International Auto Show.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=118916

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Question to the forum...... Do any of you believe like I do that Honda/Acura, has the most technology and/or gadgetology of any car manufactors ????? I honestly believe we haven't even seen the tip of the ice-berg yet. What do y'all think ?

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Don't like it.

    Honda is a good engine builder, and has made some good suspension systems and a couple or more good body styles. This is not one of them. Looks for RWD eventually, if they care to compete. In a more costly car, I would more likely go with a BMW in RWD, and maybe a Mercedes, if the reliability issues get worked out, the Audi for a FWD / AWD or the less expensive AWD cars - Subaru. In American RWD, the CTS seems the best bet. As for Acura, its OK, but it is wait and see as to how special looking the Accord will be. Anyway, nice engines. Winning race cars. The Acura line has nothing which I see as exciting looking. At a higher price, it has to be more. BMW comes to mind.
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Okay thanx Loren.....I just figured you'd be happy about the new 08' TSX. I know how you like sporty fuel efficient cars. The TSX, will only be in the mid-high $20K range which will make it very attractive to a segment of buyers. I believe you get alot of car for your money and I'd like to know what you like from Subaru, that is comparable in quality and engineering ?

    The SH-AWD is more advanced then Subaru's AWD system. Subies system works like Oldsmobile's Smart-Trak AWD where it distributes power from front to rear where slippage is occuring which i wouldn't classify as a techno-marvel ? :surprise:

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The Sport 4 looks pretty good. Saw the other pics. Looks like the too tall doors, with tiny windows = not so good. The SH Preludes did handle well. Yeah, the technology works. Personally would prefer the RWD cars. Subaru specializes in AWD, and for a pretty fair price. Would buy the Legacy, I guess, if going AWD. I don't live on ice though. More like coastal California, where temps I must say have been low. I my city way down to 28 degrees by night and sometimes under 60 * around noon time. A real cold snap here :shades: It got so cold, I had to put a sweat shirt on.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    LOREN,

    What does BMW really give you over Acura ????? All I see is a higher price and a marginal performance gain. Sure the 335i will out-run a TL Type-S but at thousands more. The Type-S IMHO has a nicer interior and more gadgets. You also don't have to fumble with i-drive and a unreadable navigation system. BMW, also employs performance inhibiting technologies like "active steering" that most drivers don't like anyways.

    I'm not saying BMW's aren't a nice car but from a value standpoint nobody touches Acura..... ;)

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    I guess small near luxury is the in thing, as the Volvo C30 will be out in 2008 . With a turbo, it will be fast. Those looking for a hatch, with a cool look, may like it. Wonder if Honda will fire back with one like that?
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Acura to me equates to a nicer Honda. I would save the money and buy the Honda Accord. Yes, older Bimmers may be better. Some new ideas are too much techno overload. An Acura looks like a nice Honda.
    You could go Infinity and get RWD for what, say 35K? I am not really into the expensive line of Japan makes. I would go Cadillac or German first.
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    I guess I'm very surprised based on what I know about you that Acura, wouldn't be among the top of your list of favorite brands. To me it fits your personality. I agree Acura needs to go RWD and have SH-AWD as a option but they are quite popular in snowy climate area's making FWD a better choice so-far. I know in California, many folks don't care for AWD because the weather is nice most of the time. However the SH-AWD system enhances handling performance no matter what the weather is. SH-AWD also adds the peace of mind of having 4 wheels ready to grab the tarmac if somebody is a inconsiderate driver and pulls out in front of you in the rain and you have to make a split-second correction of the wheel. ;) You living in California, one would assume would venture up to Lake Tahoe, for some snow sports ??? :blush:

    I'm getting very excited about the 09' Acura TL w/ SH-AWD. If the 2008' CTS, is basically the same as the current model with just a better interior I will wait for the 09' TL w/ SH-AWD. The 09' CTS-V, will have the same gadgetology as the regular CTS. I know I will have the MKS, to look at also. I don't see anything in model year 2007' worth buying with the exception of the new GMC Sierra Denali. I'd rather wait for the 2-mode hybrid on that model due out next year. The only other cars in 2007' I like is the Acura MDX and RDX. I'd love to take the Acura MDX, for a test drive. :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Loren,

    So you like the C30 Volvo. It's not my cup of tea. I'm wondering when Volvo will fire back with a AWD version of the C70 ???? A C70R would flow to the top of my list as lemko says in a New York second. :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    I know Acura's are a nicer honda. Lexus, cars are nicer Toyota's. Look at the ES 330 and tell me that isn't a nicer camry ????

    I think Honda, does a great job making Acura's more upscale because they do change the hardware and not just cosmetics like other car company's. ;) The Infiniti G35 is a nice car. It probably is the best new car value on the market IMHO. However in a few years I think that will change with the introduction of the 09' TL. We can say thank-you to Infiniti, for raising the bar higher. What I mean is the "bar" as the best car money can buy bar. :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Loren,

    Have you test drove any Acura product in the last 3 years ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Chrysler had a wonderful styled car in the Crossfire, which did not sell. Why, you may ask. The car was a two seater, limiting sales, which in itself not too bad. The back window, due to style, was hard to see out of, which in itself, not a deal breaker. The car was not the easiest to get in and out of, which is pretty much the norm for a sporty car, but once again threw a few more off the list. The car was not too expensive, yet costly for a Chrysler - something not too costly for a Mercedes buyer, yet this was not a Mercedes. Style was pretty radical, which throws some people which are perhaps shy to drive something too showy. Performance was not Porsche like, nor Buick like, something in the middle, thus had its limitations. The inside was a bit claustrophobic in nature, and it has those high door window sills, like the photo of the future Acura. Get an idea where I am going on this one.

    It does look really cool. If performance is Ferrari like, it may be a decent selling car for the few in need of such a car. If marketed correctly, it may sell better than the current NSX, but how many units are sold of those? From what little I know of the NSX, it may be a neat car to buy used if one has the money to support the car. I have seen the car a couple times, and was impressed by the style.

    Currently, I am very impressed with the Porsche Cayman. Great look without too radical a design as to be unusable in daily driving.
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    You know what Loren, a Acura NSX would make a nice sports car used. ;) Wasn't last year, the last year of the NSX ?

    Rocky
  • danilodanilo Member Posts: 69
    The BMW is in a class all it's own. It has better handling, better braking, better accelleration, no tourque steer, better leather, better shifting, better heated seats, The list goes on and on. I have owned three Acura's and two BMW's. Acura needs gadgets to sell their line, BMW is simply the ultimate driving machine!
  • jguanjguan Member Posts: 1
    the acura TL can post the same, if not better numbers than a 330i. the braking is about the same from 60-0, same 0-60 times and same quarter mile times. and the same slalom times. class of its own? i dont think so, bmws are just overrated, and its way more over priced for what you get. leather seats are standard? cmon! gimme a break.
  • danilodanilo Member Posts: 69
    Well, I owned a 2004 330xi and traded it for the 2006 Acura TL. Sure it had some nice things on it but the difference was clear after driving it on a trip for two hours. Simply put, The TL was not friendly with my back, not to mention my wife's. The response time to pass was not at all in line with the "specs" listed. The "heated seats" actually turned themselves off after heating. And the radio while it boasts 5.1 was ok at best. Then it snowed and the TL decided to slip and slide all over the road. FWD had a lot of torque steer. After a month of owning it, My wife said," Go and get the BMW". So I did. The BMW is a far more refined machine with better quality interior. Not cheap plastic which others have stated in the TL. If all you do is look at the specs on paper, you are doing yourself a great disservice. Do you think a radio with more "watts" it better simply due to more power? I have a 25watt tube amp that will kick more than a 150watt. It is obvious you have never really driven a BMW. And I am not speaking of a three minute test drive. You need to really drive it. When you do, you will see the difference is quite clear.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Some reading material for you. I can't see the NSX as a Rockymobile, though.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Leatherette or should I say Vinyl or Pleather is more like it as standard in a BMW. BMW's are overrated, over priced and more importantly over hyped as the ultimate driving machine. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    I've always liked the NSX styling. It was totally unique. :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Well in order to get a BMW up to Acura levels in equipment you are going to have to spend in the mid-upper $40K range on the BMW 335i. Give me a TL Type-S and a $10-13K discount. If your TL slid around like you say you must be driving with summer tires ? Any car without proper tires or a good set of winter tires will slide around on snow and ice. ;)

    Rocky
  • hondacura4hondacura4 Member Posts: 6
    As the current owner of 4 Honda/Acura vehicles (2005 Honda Odyssey Toruing, 2003 Acura CL-S 6MT, heavily modified 1995 Honda Civic Ex sedan, and a 2002 Honda S2000) I think I should say something.

    Most major manufacturers have a little platform sharing. Some do it well (Honda/Acura/Cadillac/Buick) some dont (GM/Ford/Toyota/Chrysler)so lets not go there. Drive a TL, TSX, and a Accord and there is a tremendous difference in feel and they all share the same platform. Saying a TL is a nicer Honda Accord would be saying the Caddy DTS is a nicer Buick Lucerne. So I dont think thats important.

    Although Acuras line of cars is good, Id like to see more higher performing sedans and coupes. The TL, TSX, and RL are great but Acura could really use some RWD performance vehicles in its lineup each having its own seperate platform, yes its exspensive but it saves weight. Both RWD offerings from Honda (NSX/S2000) have outstanding chassis composure and civility so why cant Acura produce RWD performance/luxury sedans? Honda says "we dont have the resources" but I beg to differ. Didnt they just come out with a line of personal/business JETS?

    If Acura goes RWD here is how it should be: the TSX (base turbo 4 and V6 models) would cover the 3 Series, the TL (base V6 and V8 models) would cover the 5 Series, and the RL (base V8 and a V8 Hybrid) (think LS460h L) would cover the 7. Have a RWD sports/luxury coupe with a big h.o. V6 (think Infiniti G35C) also make a Honda spinoff (think Nissan 350Z) for the more hardcore enthusiast. Leave the MDX/RDX as is because they already perform better than most in their segements.

    The S2000 is great ( I have a 2002) but it doesnt cover enough of the market because its ONLY available as a convertible and some people dont care for the hummingbird type drivetrain although I love it. Anyway, keep the S2000 in the lineup as well. Oh and dont let the vehicles age to the point where they are totally not competitive. The 3.5 RL, the outstanding NSX, and the Integra were overdue for major redesigns way before they got them. The S2000 (although still competitive) is getting a little long in the tooth. Acura/Honda certainly has the engineering know how and the technology to do it so whats the problem?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Sounds like a nice plan........ ;)

    Rocky
  • bigo08bigo08 Member Posts: 102
    am Not a very big fan Acura but if they go RWD that would definitely put them up there with BMW.
  • danilodanilo Member Posts: 69
    Rocky

    I have no dispute with the fact that you can buy a TL for less. You can say the same thing comparing the TL Type S at $38K plus vs the new Altima SE loaded up for $31K. Comparing the specs on them are close as well. And no I did not have summer tires on the TL, I had the factory all seasons. I did buy a snow package but the results were not much better. And the issue you have with seats? The premium package includes leather. The TL has leather standard... So what! You can get any option you want on the BMW. Not so on the TL, Everything is standard. But there are more options on the BMW, like sport seats, rear sunshade, PDC, etc. And BMW Has better equipment. Like, brakes, Auto drying vented front/rear. Stomp on the TL's brakes for a while and they fade, the BMW does not by design, again I have experienced both.

    So the fact remains:

    I owned both the '06 TL and the '06 BMW. And spent $34k for the TL and $42K for the BMW. ($8K). The TL has a better NAV system. But, the BMW blows the TL away in drive ability. Again, I am speaking of experience, not specs. While I agree the TL is a nice car, It does not compare to the BMW when in the real world. I spend a lot of time on the road and trade cars frequently. I have owned both Acura and BMW and the BMW clearly is a better driving machine. It is interesting though: Everyone slams BMW on them being overpriced/rated, but then compare their car to them. Simply put, BMW is the benchmark for which cars rated. And for those who do not understand what that means. BMW is the ultimate driving machine.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    BMW is the ultimate driving machine.

    Well at least for another year, eh ? :blush:

    Rocky
  • zondafzondaf Member Posts: 1
    Dude, I think you're just trying to give Acura a bad name. My cousin has a TL and it is NOTHING like you say it is. There is no back pain, no skidding around in the snow, not much of a torque steer and I don't recall the heated seats turning themselves off. The BMWs are overrated, overpriced and overhyped as someone said.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    I do agree.....I had a 05' TL and my experience is the same as your cousins. ;)

    Rocky
  • danilodanilo Member Posts: 69
    "Dude"

    First of all, The TL's heated seats are designed to turn off after they heat up when in the "high" position. That comes from Acura not me. Further more, your comments are derived from "hear say" and not from experience as I seem to have seeing that I actually owned both. Acura has had numerous complaints on their torque steer from several forums. As do most FWD automobiles. And let's set the story straight: I did say Acura was a good vehicle in my last comments. I am simply saying that the people who say BMW's are overrated have not really experienced them. I too thought that until I really drove the BMW and discovered the real difference. Again, in the real world BMW has it in the way of drive ability. And again, you always see Acura comparing themselves to BMW. You don't see BMW comparing themselves to Acura. Look at all the forums out there. BMW has always come out on top. Hmmm, interesting. Slam all you want, BMW is still rated the best automobile yet again. Consumer's most wanted as well, Acura came in third behind BMW first (no surprise) and Cadillac second. That is "Consumer's" most wanted for 2006 and the Caddy beat out Acura. For those who do not know, Consumer's are the people. BMW stands by it's motto as "The Ultimate Driving Machine".
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.thehollywoodextra.com/movies/acura%20concept.html

    Not sure I agree, but very funny, nonetheless.

    Bob
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    At the National Auto Museum - Reno, you can view the original ;)
    http://www.automuseum.org/NAM_collections_phtmcsr2.shtml
    -Loren
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Arm chair racing with spec sheet is fine, but the primary difference between a mainstream sedan and a luxury sedan isn’t “performance” but in quality and feel of virtually everything inside. Neon SRT-4 was a damn fast car, wasn’t it?

    The TL's heated seats are designed to turn off after they heat up when in the "high" position.

    Of course they are. The purpose is to maintain the temperature as opposed to toasting the buns.

    I am simply saying that the people who say BMW's are overrated have not really experienced them.

    This is an extremely poor assumption on your part.

    Consumer's most wanted as well, Acura came in third behind BMW first (no surprise) and Cadillac second.

    I am actually surprised that Acura beat out the likes of Lexus and Mercedes. These two, besides BMW, Audi and Cadillac can be considered more “wanted” by non-enthusiast brand than Acura or Infiniti. In fact since the day I have owned my TL, I have been surprised a few times that many didn’t know Acura was manufactured by Honda! This includes several of my friends who actually drive MBs and BMWs (and amusingly enough, can’t tell the difference between six cylinder or eight cylinder engines, or RWD versus FWD).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,972
    Ha, I once knew a girl who had an Integra, and she didn't know it was a Honda product!

    I suspect there are Lexus/Toyota similarities too.
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