Neon, I have to admit, not familiar with them so I'll take your word on that. I get it all the time. Why would you but a BMW? They are way too pricey. You can get more car for less. You traded your TL for what? By the way, These comments came from people who have never driven a BMW let alone a TL. I try not to assume anything. I will re-phrase... MOST of those... As for the seats? Well, The TL as you know has a high and low with the high turning off after heating up and going back on when cooled down, the low is low. On the BMW (and other german cars), there are three settings where all three keep warm.(temp control) They do not turn off and have not had a problem as far as I know. I'm not sure I agree with you in that some people simply can not tell the difference between FWD and RWD or even AWD. I personally don't get that but my driving style is considered spirited. They do not know what they are missing I guess. Sounds like you like to drive so I've got to ask... What was the deciding factor in your TL purchase? and Did you drive the BMW? I actually bought the TL in 06 but to be fair I came from a BMW so My expectations were high. The salesman told me it was as good as if not better than my old car. To me it was a far cry so I went back to BMW. For me it was a huge difference. I try to comment on the cars I actually have driven/owned. "MOST" of those who say overrated/overpriced have not driven them. So if price was not a factor, what car would you own?
For me it would have to be the Bugatti Veyron "1001HP" Nice!!
I am not into leasing, and could never justify buying one. Being a "driver", I put 20-30K miles/year, and need something more sensible than getting carried away in the flood that is chasing prestige like most of my friends do. The only way (and route taken by my friends) is either leasing or buying use. Not into either although they both make BMWs almost as affordable as many mainstream cars.
The TL as you know has a high and low with the high turning off after heating up and going back on when cooled down, the low is low.
The low setting works well for me. I have tried the high setting and fail to see why it even exists. It can make the seat uncomfortably warm. As for turning itself off, the feature is to maintain a temperature than continuous operation to do so (like an efficient climate control system). When was the last time you wanted your home heating system to run continuously?
I'm not sure I agree with you in that some people simply can not tell the difference between FWD and RWD or even AWD.
I wasn't looking for an agreement, but was telling you about actual people who don’t know the difference and would buy nothing but MB and BMW (and in some cases, Lexus). I don’t think they are missing anything. They are driving those vehicles for same reasons most do. Spirited driving? My Accord sees more of it everyday than most BMW drivers around dare to care about.
What was the deciding factor in your TL purchase? and Did you drive the BMW?
TL is a wonderfully balanced car, something that seems to be true of most Honda vehicles. Nobody should take it as a sports car designed to see race tracks. It is what it is, a sharp looking Touring Luxury sedan. Sweet engine, seamless shifts, excellent appointments (NAV is the only option), firm riding but not harsh, and despite my heavy footed driving, I have been averaging a reasonable 24 mpg over 6K miles (50% city).
Believe me, I am as much a spirited driver out there as anybody can be within barely legal limits. I also understand that FF cars need to be driven differently than FR cars need to be driven different than MR cars or RR cars or AWD cars.
I have driven plenty of 3/5 series BMWs, and regularly drive a friend’s while hearing about his stories with the car (and another friend who has been experiencing sudden loss of power on highway in her ’04 330i recently). I am just way too logical to drive a BMW (or any European make for that matter) at this time.
As for the 04 330i, there is a recall I think it was on the coils. They replaced it on my '04 330XI. "Car may experience rough running and loss of power" Have them take it in it should be under warranty.
Seriously, why bother doing something that's already been done? And, in the case of BMW, being done very well.
Infiniti has already tried to make themselves over as the "Japanese BMW". While it certainly has improved the image of the brand, the G35 still sells at roughly half the pace of the TL. Frankly, for all the investment they put into it, I'm not sure it's doing a whole lot better than the I30 it replaced.
Lexus tried their own 3 Series competitor with the IS300 and it flopped, big time! The new IS cars are certainly worthy vehicles, but they also fall short of the TL's sales pace. Heck, even Lexus's own ES sells more copies.
There's a difference between sports cars and sportee cars, as Mr. Shiftwright would explain. While I don't doubt that smaller, RWD cars with bigger engines would be a better way to build sports cars, it appears the larger market is just fine with cars that are simply sportee. Why is targeting that market such a bad idea?
I'm just not sure why so many people think that playing follow-the-leader will get Acura ahead in the game. Furthermore, I'm not sure why so many people seem to think that Acura would be the company to unseat BMW if they did target that part of the market.
To answer the original question... Back into more direct competition with the 1st tier luxury marques.
With every new generation, prices on cars creep upward. The price increases are often 3-5%. It seems that will recent redesigns, Acura has been pushing the higher end of that range. No doubt some of the prices have caused a fuss, but Acura is also adding more content and finally getting serious with some of their interior materials.
They've also dumped the very lowest priced vehicle in the line-up and brought in a more... ummm... adult car to fill the entry slot. I doubt it is coincidence that the TSX also gives Acura the chance to move the TL a little higher in the 30K price bracket.
Why aren't they using bigger engines and RWD platforms to move up?
Why should they?
If Honda went and built new factory lines for V8s and RWD vehicles, those costs would need to be covered with higher profits. So, at a time when Acura is getting serious about their interiors, such a plan would require them to begin cost-cutting. As much as they need a V8, they also need to keep up with entertainment technology, safety, and luxury amenities.
Besides, who said Honda isn't going to use V8s and RWD platforms? I suspect it's just a matter of making sure the ship is in safe waters before overhauling the rigging.
Honda seems to consider RWD sacred. When they put RWD in a car, it'll be a bench mark for years to come. The NSX was considered a big step forward in '91, and the S2000 placed 1st in an edmunds roadster comparison. I think they will use SH-AWD to replace their FWD cars and keep RWD for the purist sports cars.
This is an interesting discussion. Here is my 2-cent (having own 2004 Accord EX V6, 2005 Acura TL A-Spec and now BMW 550i):
Honda Accord EX-V6: very good interior finish and design. V6 gives you ample of passing power and acceleration. My only complaint: the automatic transmission seems a bit slow to down shift and handling is not as sharp.
Acura TL: sharper handling than Accord, a bit more power (not much at low-end though) and more elegant interior. There was some rattles after 6 months
BMW: Take one around the corner and you'll understand. We're usually obsessed with 0-60 time but forget handling. I love my TL but even with A-Spec it's like a boat compare to BMW. I'm not talking about the 550i that I own. I test drove 330i, 335i and they all beat my TL in term of handling. However, both the Accord and TL beat BMW on interior design and functionality.
The bottom line: pick the car based on your priority. Either way, you'll be happy
If anything, Audi would like to be in Acura's position. Remember, Acura sells 2.5 times as many vehicles as Audi does. Audi's best seller is A4 with sales volume close to half that of Acura's best seller (TL).
Yes, The "Super" Handling AWD is primarily a FWD platform first and formost. Unlike the Audi which is a true AWD. BMW's X-drive is reversed being a RWD first then AWD. This makes for a FWD feel in the RL. Good or Bad? Well when the RL approaches $53grand..... There are a lot of vehicles out there which are stiff competition. I'd keep looking
AWD systems don't define platform (just like engines don't define platform but are adapted/installed in one).
As for this RWD issue, tell me, when exactly do you benefit from it? In RL, SH-AWD allows the car to be "more" RWD (upto 70% power to rear wheels) than X-drive does in BMWs (upto 60%). It works like that, when needed, and not when it isn't.
As a matter of fact, SH-AWD allows RL to retain cushy ride, yet be able to keep up with "sport sedans" around the corners with impressive grip even on relatively hard all-season rubber.
in "luxury" car sales these days (sales of luxury cars having expanded like threefold in the last decade while the overall market remained mostly stagnant), Honda is attempting to make over Acura into the line of cars Americans expect from luxury divisions. Thing is, it will be hard to gain the required respect and prestige for big sales increases, given Acura's background as the division that was clearly made up of Hondas, a half notch up.
Beyond that, Honda has to stay true to its roots while emphasizing the luxury attributes that Americans like most. Lexus has done this best of all, which is why of the three Japanese carmakers with luxury divisions it is the only one to have gained much respect (and still less than BMW/MB certainly). Will Acura become the more reliable Audi if Honda follows its current line? Yeah, probably, but Honda will have to work on the interiors a lot before that happens. And they will have to introduce much more competent autobahn-style cars that top the range well above RL's current price and performance threshold.
All the cars should have SH-AWD ASAP for Acura to begin to have the necessary tools for its upmarket move. And handling needs to improve - both in terms of sporty (among the smaller models), and in terms of shielding the driver from our crappy pavement on long drives down the interstate.
Having driven the TL a few times, including some longer drives, I have to say that although handling is pretty good, there isn't enough road feel at the steering wheel. And it is true what people say, that low-rev power isn't all that - it like many Hondas needs to rev some and build up its steam before it goes. That is especially true of the TSX, of course, with an engine that is easily outclassed by the turbo 2.0 in Audi's A3/4.
Lastly, I will be TICKED if Honda cancels the NA Integra just to bring out a $25K sport-hatch-thingy to compete with the Volvo C30. That would fall under the heading of "what the heck were they thinking?"
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Not sure what you are actually attempting to say here but AWD in it's truest form is supposed to be just that All Wheel Drive. The SH-AWD by it's design absorbs quite a bit of HP. this is a reason why the RL is "sluggish" in relation to it's HP rating. In addition, the System is a primary FWD auto which switches on demand. Not a horrible thing but stomp on the gas at a light and you'd better be holding the wheel. Not so in an Audi or BMW... FYI: The BMW X-drive allows infinitely variable distribution between Front/Rear. You are referring to the old system.(60/40)(62/38 for the 3 series).
Now how does the SH-AWD retain a cushy ride? A matter of fact? Uh, suspension maybe? I'd challenge the RL any day to go head to head with a BMW 530/330i. As a matter of fact, There was a head to head and RL failed miserably. (As a matter of fact) $53grand? No thanks
You need to know more about SH-AWD, before passing a judgement.
The SH-AWD by it's design absorbs quite a bit of HP. this is a reason why the RL is "sluggish" in relation to it's HP rating.
RL's off-the-line performance is hampered by gearing. The same is true for MDX. In fact Europeans, especially BMW, knows how to impress with gearing done just right for excellent 0-62 mph run.
If you're going to suggest SH-AWD system itself saps more power than other AWD systems, provide facts directly related to the issue, not assumptions.
the System is a primary FWD auto which switches on demand.
Another thing you might just learn now. SH-AWD is a permanent AWD system that keeps all wheels engaged at all times. Only front-aft and side to side (rear) distribution varies continuously (and does so proactively via throttle use even without traction issues) unlike most AWD systems in the market.
ok, But when driving the RL myself I was intrigued by the led's which lit up the dash "showing" the front to rear relationship and it was showing torque to the front wheels most of the time..... (On straight line driving). When i asked the dealer, they told me just that, "The RL is primarily a FWD car and switched as needed" Also, for 300hp it is a dog compared to BMW's 255hp. Hmmm, Gearing? Yes gearing, There are more gears in the SH-AWD which by nature absorb more power. Another thing about AWD is permanent engagement is NOT necessarily a good thing. Proactive via throttle? So What!
Both the RL and MDX now use the SH-AWD... Gearing issues? Yes. AWD gearing. The old MDX which My father owns actually is better of the line. I was surprised to see that but now I am convinced it is due to the SH-AWD. Thanks for clearing that up!
Now how does the SH-AWD retain a cushy ride? A matter of fact? Uh, suspension maybe?
I didn’t say SH-AWD does it, but that it allows RL to use softer riding qualities while allowing the car to have impressive cornering abilities. Now only if Acura would implement SH-AWD with sport package. As it is, let me know if you know another car that can pull 0.87g on the skid pad wearing all-season rubber while its ride is dubbed comfy.
I'd challenge the RL any day to go head to head with a BMW 530/330i.
As a matter of fact, C&D did have a head to head comparison with BMW 530i (which finished sixth among eight cars, and A6/4.2 was involved as well which finished fifth). RL finished second, behind M45 Sport. The comparison actually addresses virtually every complaint that you have made an attempt to put here.
Don't convince yourself with something that isn't factual. Despite all the complaints, C&D has seen RL run 0-60 in 6.3s (and 6.4s), thats about what anybody should expect from a 4000 lb, 290 HP car. It could save couple of ticks if Acura shortened the first two gears.
If you need a tutorial on gearing (and the direction Acura has opted to take as opposed to BMW), I can dig up my discussions on this issue for you.
When i asked the dealer, they told me just that, "The RL is primarily a FWD car and switched as needed"
Only if dealers knew better. Take my word for it, under cruising conditions, RL has a 70-30 split (it NEVER goes to 100-0 under any circumstance), and can send upto 70% to the rear wheels during cornering.
Another thing about AWD is permanent engagement is NOT necessarily a good thing.
Until now, that is how you chose to describe true AWD system.
First you say the best AWD systems are AWD all the time then you say permanent engagement is not necessarily a good thing.
Which is it?
Also If something is primarily FWD then that would make me think it uses the front wheels for more then 50% of the split so the 70/30 split makes sense.
VTM-4, the lesser version of SH-AWD would be considered primarily FWD because it is FWD until slippage is detected as in any reactive AWD system, or proactively when throttle is applied (in which case slippage isn't a requirement).
Maybe you need some glasses, Never said AWD all the time is best, I did say AWD in it's truest form is indeed that. No way it is the best, Rather not. As Yourself has proclaimed the RL is.
As a matter of fact, SH-AWD allows RL to retain cushy ride, yet be able to keep up with "sport sedans" around the corners with impressive grip even on relatively hard all-season rubber. Those are your words, not mine.....................
I didn’t say SH-AWD does it, but that it allows RL to use softer riding qualities while allowing the car to have impressive cornering abilities. And how does it "Allow" a better suspension? Hmmm, interesting.
Said that the RL had the best AWD system, Land Rover has the best AWD system everyone should know that, so stop sticking words in my mouth.
And you seem to have a bit of a problem or obsession. Responding to post after post in a series instead of just making one post to keep things together. All these extra unecessary posts are just silly.
But whatever I dont care I will leave you to your obsession and just ignore you.
Here is Acura's site, "When cruising in a straight line up to 90% os power is directed to the front. From a stop under hard acceleration, up to 45% is directed to the rear, and up to 50% to rear in accellerated cornering. Oh and it can also send 100% of the torque to the outside wheel. Not bad, but not 70/30 as you stated. The RL is far better than a 70/30 configure. Unfortunately for Acura, The RL, even with all it's gadget and SH-AWD gizmo has not been a big seller. Primarily due to it's lack of real excitement in the real world. I'd take an Audi A6 any day over it and of course a BMW.
By the way, the front wheel drive car was designed for cost savings, not performance... FYI
It suggests "upto 70% to the front wheels" under normal crusing/low throttle cornering (not 100% which will make it FWD, or 90% as is the case in RDX).
that was a funny little flurry of posts! Give me the rear-driver, I say. But if I can't have it, then AWD is a good second best. Which is pretty much the thinking that Audi and Acura (and Volvo, and Saab, and...) have to battle in asserting the sporting characteristics of their cars. Mainly because the automotive press in general prefers the rear-drivers too. How do actual owners drive these cars out in the real world? Not in any way REMOTELY like the press does. Which is to say, having a little sporting pretension and a whole lot of cushiness is probably the best route for a luxury car company to take.
Problem for Acura THERE is that Lexus kind of owns that end of the spectrum, and MB does a really good job of it too for the badge-obsessed. Good luxury cars just need to NOT wallow in cornering and be responsive to the pedals to satisfy 95% of the drivers out there.
I think it's amusing that MB, Saab, Audi, and now Volvo (with the C30) have been reaching DOWNMARKET the last few years, just as Honda has decided to take Acura UPMARKET. :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I've been through two winters (winter has not hit New England yet this year...) with my '05 TL. To confirm what an earlier owner stated, it is not at all a snow car. I am hoping that it is the Bridgestone EL42 tires. I've driven FWD all my life and with all-season tires, never had an issue. The TL is the first front-driver that really makes me think about driving in the snow.
Next winter, new/different all-seasons will hopefully tell the tale...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
first of all, honda needs to offer more models like lexus...they have 4 sedans, 1 convertible, 3 SUVS, and 2 hybrids. Although honda is coming up diesel so they won't need a V8 and will be fuel-efficient...another alternative to hybrids...but they are only offering it to trucks (MDX). Also lexus has IS-F sedan, IS-coupe, and also a GS-F sedan coming up and pricing for the IS-F sedan is expected to be around 50k which is also expected to undercut BMW's upcoming M3 and MB's upcoming all-new C63-AMG. As you all know that these models are designed with BMW's M, MB's AMG, and Audi's RS and S models. The point is that lexus is coming out that TOYOTA image (fuel-efficient)and still undercuts the european Models pricing. although it does have hybrids...but they are still viewed as performance-hybrid vehicles. Lexus knows that to become the No. 1 luxury brand, it has to be like the european companies but undercut their pricing. Now Acura, acura doesn't even offer a damn full-size luxury sedan or a freaking V8 like lexus, audi, bmw, MB. Acura is still sticking to that honda image. about the all-new rdx...acura could've gone with a small V6, but they didn't and chose to put a turbo underneath its hood. i have read a lot of reviews about the rdx and i am quite surprised that it offers worse fuel economy (17-19) than the MDX (21-25)!lexus doesn't even offer a V4 in its line-up and neither does BMW, MB, and Infiniti and acura still does. so acura needs to make wise decisions like lexus and offer more variety in its line-up and distinguish itself from others.
Yeah Sorry, I get a little carried away. Agreed Acura is heading in the right direction. While they are not there yet, who knows... Someday maybe. Point taken.
Internet forums are typically all hearsay. Everyone posting here can say that they own this and that and manipulate facts and figures to fit their position.
I see, and as I read this you sent, it also says up to 40% to rear under straight hard accelleration and up to 70% to rear when cornering. Acura obviously believes this is enough by their research. BMW is different in that it is 40F/60R in normal straight line accelleration, but can deliver 100% to either front or rear depending on the situation(yaw rate, speed, etc). So one feels more like FWD and one is more RWD so I guess it depends on how you drive and how you like to feel the road.
I assume you have some sort of experience with repair bills? I personally have not encountered anything out of the norm, The 4yr/50K covers everything, even the wiperblades, which They replace every year for me Not many car manufacturers can say that.
Comments
For me it would have to be the Bugatti Veyron "1001HP" Nice!!
That's a gooden Loren.
Rocky
Only while being towed
-Loren
I am not into leasing, and could never justify buying one. Being a "driver", I put 20-30K miles/year, and need something more sensible than getting carried away in the flood that is chasing prestige like most of my friends do. The only way (and route taken by my friends) is either leasing or buying use. Not into either although they both make BMWs almost as affordable as many mainstream cars.
The TL as you know has a high and low with the high turning off after heating up and going back on when cooled down, the low is low.
The low setting works well for me. I have tried the high setting and fail to see why it even exists. It can make the seat uncomfortably warm. As for turning itself off, the feature is to maintain a temperature than continuous operation to do so (like an efficient climate control system). When was the last time you wanted your home heating system to run continuously?
I'm not sure I agree with you in that some people simply can not tell the difference between FWD and RWD or even AWD.
I wasn't looking for an agreement, but was telling you about actual people who don’t know the difference and would buy nothing but MB and BMW (and in some cases, Lexus). I don’t think they are missing anything. They are driving those vehicles for same reasons most do. Spirited driving? My Accord sees more of it everyday than most BMW drivers around dare to care about.
What was the deciding factor in your TL purchase? and Did you drive the BMW?
TL is a wonderfully balanced car, something that seems to be true of most Honda vehicles. Nobody should take it as a sports car designed to see race tracks. It is what it is, a sharp looking Touring Luxury sedan. Sweet engine, seamless shifts, excellent appointments (NAV is the only option), firm riding but not harsh, and despite my heavy footed driving, I have been averaging a reasonable 24 mpg over 6K miles (50% city).
Believe me, I am as much a spirited driver out there as anybody can be within barely legal limits. I also understand that FF cars need to be driven differently than FR cars need to be driven different than MR cars or RR cars or AWD cars.
I have driven plenty of 3/5 series BMWs, and regularly drive a friend’s while hearing about his stories with the car (and another friend who has been experiencing sudden loss of power on highway in her ’04 330i recently). I am just way too logical to drive a BMW (or any European make for that matter) at this time.
As for the 04 330i, there is a recall I think it was on the coils. They replaced it on my '04 330XI. "Car may experience rough running and loss of power" Have them take it in it should be under warranty.
My '06 330XI gets 25mpg ave so I hear ya there.
Logical? "Mr. Spock"
Being an engineer, it is easier to take the path of logic than getting carried away by emotions.
Infiniti has already tried to make themselves over as the "Japanese BMW". While it certainly has improved the image of the brand, the G35 still sells at roughly half the pace of the TL. Frankly, for all the investment they put into it, I'm not sure it's doing a whole lot better than the I30 it replaced.
Lexus tried their own 3 Series competitor with the IS300 and it flopped, big time! The new IS cars are certainly worthy vehicles, but they also fall short of the TL's sales pace. Heck, even Lexus's own ES sells more copies.
There's a difference between sports cars and sportee cars, as Mr. Shiftwright would explain. While I don't doubt that smaller, RWD cars with bigger engines would be a better way to build sports cars, it appears the larger market is just fine with cars that are simply sportee. Why is targeting that market such a bad idea?
I'm just not sure why so many people think that playing follow-the-leader will get Acura ahead in the game. Furthermore, I'm not sure why so many people seem to think that Acura would be the company to unseat BMW if they did target that part of the market.
(That is a good thing)
With every new generation, prices on cars creep upward. The price increases are often 3-5%. It seems that will recent redesigns, Acura has been pushing the higher end of that range. No doubt some of the prices have caused a fuss, but Acura is also adding more content and finally getting serious with some of their interior materials.
They've also dumped the very lowest priced vehicle in the line-up and brought in a more... ummm... adult car to fill the entry slot. I doubt it is coincidence that the TSX also gives Acura the chance to move the TL a little higher in the 30K price bracket.
Why aren't they using bigger engines and RWD platforms to move up?
Why should they?
If Honda went and built new factory lines for V8s and RWD vehicles, those costs would need to be covered with higher profits. So, at a time when Acura is getting serious about their interiors, such a plan would require them to begin cost-cutting. As much as they need a V8, they also need to keep up with entertainment technology, safety, and luxury amenities.
Besides, who said Honda isn't going to use V8s and RWD platforms? I suspect it's just a matter of making sure the ship is in safe waters before overhauling the rigging.
Honda Accord EX-V6: very good interior finish and design. V6 gives you ample of passing power and acceleration. My only complaint: the automatic transmission seems a bit slow to down shift and handling is not as sharp.
Acura TL: sharper handling than Accord, a bit more power (not much at low-end though) and more elegant interior. There was some rattles after 6 months
BMW: Take one around the corner and you'll understand. We're usually obsessed with 0-60 time but forget handling. I love my TL but even with A-Spec it's like a boat compare to BMW. I'm not talking about the 550i that I own. I test drove 330i, 335i and they all beat my TL in term of handling. However, both the Accord and TL beat BMW on interior design and functionality.
The bottom line: pick the car based on your priority. Either way, you'll be happy
If they can get 9/10ths of audi's driving feel combined with 9/10ths of their interior feel but with Acura reliablity...
Whooo would that be a hot line of cars.
Rocky
If anything, Audi would like to be in Acura's position. Remember, Acura sells 2.5 times as many vehicles as Audi does. Audi's best seller is A4 with sales volume close to half that of Acura's best seller (TL).
As for this RWD issue, tell me, when exactly do you benefit from it? In RL, SH-AWD allows the car to be "more" RWD (upto 70% power to rear wheels) than X-drive does in BMWs (upto 60%). It works like that, when needed, and not when it isn't.
As a matter of fact, SH-AWD allows RL to retain cushy ride, yet be able to keep up with "sport sedans" around the corners with impressive grip even on relatively hard all-season rubber.
Beyond that, Honda has to stay true to its roots while emphasizing the luxury attributes that Americans like most. Lexus has done this best of all, which is why of the three Japanese carmakers with luxury divisions it is the only one to have gained much respect (and still less than BMW/MB certainly). Will Acura become the more reliable Audi if Honda follows its current line? Yeah, probably, but Honda will have to work on the interiors a lot before that happens. And they will have to introduce much more competent autobahn-style cars that top the range well above RL's current price and performance threshold.
All the cars should have SH-AWD ASAP for Acura to begin to have the necessary tools for its upmarket move. And handling needs to improve - both in terms of sporty (among the smaller models), and in terms of shielding the driver from our crappy pavement on long drives down the interstate.
Having driven the TL a few times, including some longer drives, I have to say that although handling is pretty good, there isn't enough road feel at the steering wheel. And it is true what people say, that low-rev power isn't all that - it like many Hondas needs to rev some and build up its steam before it goes. That is especially true of the TSX, of course, with an engine that is easily outclassed by the turbo 2.0 in Audi's A3/4.
Lastly, I will be TICKED if Honda cancels the NA Integra just to bring out a $25K sport-hatch-thingy to compete with the Volvo C30. That would fall under the heading of "what the heck were they thinking?"
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Now how does the SH-AWD retain a cushy ride? A matter of fact? Uh, suspension maybe? I'd challenge the RL any day to go head to head with a BMW 530/330i. As a matter of fact, There was a head to head and RL failed miserably. (As a matter of fact) $53grand? No thanks
For your reading pleasure.
The SH-AWD by it's design absorbs quite a bit of HP. this is a reason why the RL is "sluggish" in relation to it's HP rating.
RL's off-the-line performance is hampered by gearing. The same is true for MDX. In fact Europeans, especially BMW, knows how to impress with gearing done just right for excellent 0-62 mph run.
If you're going to suggest SH-AWD system itself saps more power than other AWD systems, provide facts directly related to the issue, not assumptions.
the System is a primary FWD auto which switches on demand.
Another thing you might just learn now. SH-AWD is a permanent AWD system that keeps all wheels engaged at all times. Only front-aft and side to side (rear) distribution varies continuously (and does so proactively via throttle use even without traction issues) unlike most AWD systems in the market.
I didn’t say SH-AWD does it, but that it allows RL to use softer riding qualities while allowing the car to have impressive cornering abilities. Now only if Acura would implement SH-AWD with sport package. As it is, let me know if you know another car that can pull 0.87g on the skid pad wearing all-season rubber while its ride is dubbed comfy.
I'd challenge the RL any day to go head to head with a BMW 530/330i.
As a matter of fact, C&D did have a head to head comparison with BMW 530i (which finished sixth among eight cars, and A6/4.2 was involved as well which finished fifth). RL finished second, behind M45 Sport. The comparison actually addresses virtually every complaint that you have made an attempt to put here.
If you need a tutorial on gearing (and the direction Acura has opted to take as opposed to BMW), I can dig up my discussions on this issue for you.
When i asked the dealer, they told me just that, "The RL is primarily a FWD car and switched as needed"
Only if dealers knew better. Take my word for it, under cruising conditions, RL has a 70-30 split (it NEVER goes to 100-0 under any circumstance), and can send upto 70% to the rear wheels during cornering.
Another thing about AWD is permanent engagement is NOT necessarily a good thing.
Until now, that is how you chose to describe true AWD system.
Which is it?
Also If something is primarily FWD then that would make me think it uses the front wheels for more then 50% of the split so the 70/30 split makes sense.
And you seem to have a bit of a problem or obsession. Responding to post after post in a series instead of just making one post to keep things together. All these extra unecessary posts are just silly.
But whatever I dont care I will leave you to your obsession and just ignore you.
Here is Acura's site, "When cruising in a straight line up to 90% os power is directed to the front. From a stop under hard acceleration, up to 45% is directed to the rear, and up to 50% to rear in accellerated cornering. Oh and it can also send 100% of the torque to the outside wheel. Not bad, but not 70/30 as you stated. The RL is far better than a 70/30 configure. Unfortunately for Acura, The RL, even with all it's gadget and SH-AWD gizmo has not been a big seller. Primarily due to it's lack of real excitement in the real world. I'd take an Audi A6 any day over it and of course a BMW.
By the way, the front wheel drive car was designed for cost savings, not performance... FYI
"During straight-line cruising and moderate cornering below about half throttle, up to 70 percent of the torque is delivered to the front wheels"
It suggests "upto 70% to the front wheels" under normal crusing/low throttle cornering (not 100% which will make it FWD, or 90% as is the case in RDX).
Problem for Acura THERE is that Lexus kind of owns that end of the spectrum, and MB does a really good job of it too for the badge-obsessed. Good luxury cars just need to NOT wallow in cornering and be responsive to the pedals to satisfy 95% of the drivers out there.
I think it's amusing that MB, Saab, Audi, and now Volvo (with the C30) have been reaching DOWNMARKET the last few years, just as Honda has decided to take Acura UPMARKET. :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Next winter, new/different all-seasons will hopefully tell the tale...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
If you bought- good luck with all the repairs outside of warranty :P
Internet forums are typically all hearsay. Everyone posting here can say that they own this and that and manipulate facts and figures to fit their position.