I hope you have live...but let's follow this thought. I did not even mention BMW in my last post.. . Of course Car and Driver has named BMW 3 series in top two performers in sports sedan category for the last "ten years" I am sorry you cannot afford to drive the "ultimate Driving Machine"..
Oh well let's get back to the facts again.. If GM continues to lose market share every year as they have done since 1970 this could be ( now watch closely) a BAD THING... !!
So why buy a GM product that is already for a facelift one year after it has been introduced...?
All these target #I that GM missed are too bad, but at least I'll have a car that not everyone else has. I like the way it handles. It is NOT a noisy car either. I like the looks too. I'd buy it all over again. Am I the only Aztec owner who likes there car? Let's hear from someone who actually DRIVES own instead of so many pessimistic auto-enthusiasts.
I agree with "waymoresblues", I want to hear from Aztec owners... who are you? what job do you have..? What is your income level? I just want to know the kind of person buys an Aztec. If you guys like it....buy it. I don't begrudge anyone from making their choices. I just want to hear your justification on making an Aztec purchase. Also, what else did you look at before the Aztec? Just curious, Mark PS. My Bio.... I'm an Accountant, have a 2000 Mercedes E430 sport and a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ltd. Income... six figures. Want to share?
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
Some of the practical designs aspects of the Aztek are great as shown in the camping commercial that's been run for the vehicle. But the stlying is pitiful, the styling of the whole Pontiac line save for the Grand Prix is pitiful. Compare the current Sunfire, Firedbird, Bonnevile and Grand Ams to the prior generations, what has GM been thinking? Hopefully the Rendezvous will have much of the practicality of the Aztek, it looks a lot better from the pics I've seen.
The horrible styling of the Aztek should surprise no one. Its from a company that in its infinite brand management wisdom decided to take away all cars from the Oldsmobile line that appealed to aging boomers and seniors in 1999 and then wondered gee where did all the sales go in 2000. Goodbye 88, LSS and Cutlass, what an idiotic decision. The average age of US citizens is going up and GM shifts one of its brands to attract a younger buyer. And I say this as a 30 year old. What's bad for me is that I have a GM card, so I kind of have to buy a GM. Oh how I miss my Ford Citibank Visa during times like these.
I am in the market for a new vehicle. The Aztek is in the running as that automobile. To answer the question of Mark156...What kind of person would buy the Aztek? I am a single mother of two young children, 3 and 5...my income level is 18,000 a year(Pennies to your six figure income.)I work in the travel industry. I don't think the aztec is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen, but its not the uglyest either. I currently own a 98 Grand Am, best car I have ever owned. I can't imagine not staying with Pontiac, or at least with a GM product. Now, my question to you...is it the looks of the Aztec that bother you so much, or the idea that someone like me would actually own it? Or should I say...someone like you!
Hi Hellorhevn, Yes, it's the looks of the Aztec that bother me. I was once a GM owner but they lost me at the age of 22. I will never buy another GM product again. And, at the age of 42, they have lost a lot of money from me because I have purchased seven new vehicle since then (Mostly foreign). So, I would say that I have spent about $254,600 on new cars in the last 20 yrs. My GM experience happened 1981. I will never forget the awful experience I had. Bad service, bad dealership, junkie product and awfull depreciation. Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
Why are you here bragging about your income and the wonderful cars you have? Seems to me someone with you kind of money would have better things to do than complain about the Aztek's looks and how bad your GM car was 20 years ago??
I know your question was not addressed to me, but if you don't mind I'll chip in my 2 cents.
Obviously, first it's hard for me to identify with someone who would consider *only* a Pontiac. In my humble opinion, Pontiac builds the worst-designed, least attractive, most adolescent cars sold in the US, with the lowest-quality interiors by far. They have extremely poor resale value, generally poor performance in safety tests, and have below average reliability.
I understand that your experience with your Grand Am has been good, and I assume that's because the car hasn't broken down on you. While that should certainly be a factor, objectively speaking it's merely a "stastical sample" of n=1 (where n is the number of cars surveyed, so to speak). In other words it’s more accurate to consider reliability, resale, and safety statistics as published by the guvmint, insurance institutes, etc. Because the Pontiac brand performs extremely poorly in all these areas, I’d never even consider buying one.
However, even if Pontiacs rated highly in these areas, I’d still never buy one because they remind me too much of the cars my friend Charlie used to draw in the 6th grade, but Pontiac seems to have younger and/or less skilled designers than Charlie ever was because I’m pretty sure Charlie, on his worst day, never could design anything quite as objectionable as the Aztek.
If you like the Aztek because it’s roomy, there are tons of roomy vehicles. If you like it because your Grand Am has been reliable, statistics suggest you’re unlikely to have the same luck with the Aztek. If you think the Aztek is safe, the platform it’s built on has a very poor track record. If you’re highly value-conscious due to your income level, the depreciation on this vehicle will astonish you (if hardly anybody likes new Azteks, even fewer will have any reason to consider a used Aztek, especially after the emergency facelift is completed).
Give us a break..!! IF someone does not like the Aztek, there is no need to ridecule that person.. All you seem to do is cut down people who are not in love with the Aztek like you are ..!! Get off your Aztek high horse and at least consider that a lot of people do NOT like the Aztek..
as for "HELLORHEVN" if all you make is $18,000. a year that's ok, however you have young children PLEASE reconsider your decesion.. The Aztek is the SAME platform as the "Montana" minivan wich came in DEAD last in a insurance institute offset crash test (yes the Aztek has not been crash tested) however, with little ones you should not take any chances... With your income level try looking a Subaru Forestor, Hyundai Santa Fe( 5 yr 60k warranty), Mazda Tribute, or my choice would be a three year old 4Runner...Plus as a working mother if financial disater were to occur than if you had the sell the Aztek you might only receive 50% of what you paid for it within one year.... Also did you know that GM has already designated the Aztek for a facelift in the year 2002.. This will Destroy the resale of the 2001.....
"Now, my question to you...is it the looks of the Aztec that bother you so much, or the idea that someone like me would actually own it?"
The idea that GM would foist this on you is what I don't like. If your Grand Am is as good as you say, what are you doing buying a new vehicle that is 50% more expensive than your annual income?
You will really take it when you try to sell too. Since GM's president even admits the Aztek is abhorrent and in need of an unheard of first year make over, the 2001's will always be called "the ugly ones"
Since Mr. Isellplastiac never responded, I did my own analysis. a 1998 Grand Am is worth 52% of its base original price. a 1998 Accord is worth 70% of it's new price. Both were around 16k new. Take 22% of 16k and the difference is = $3520 (146/mo in 24 mos.)in extra depreciation the Pontiac buyers suffered. I don't think anyone will make the argument that driving a Grand Am is worth one cent more than a driving a Honda. Think of it as your subsidy to Hertz and Avis because the market is flooded with ex-rental cars GM practically gave away. The point of this is that you shouldn't give your money to a company that has contempt for it's customers.
Buy a pine tree air freshner for the Grand Am and Keep your money.
While I will not defend Pontiac Styling (except the Grand Prix which is nice), Pontiac reliability is average. Further there is no proof that Aztek is unsafe, that re-sale will be poor or that reliability is not average or better. In fact, there have been no major reported problems and one can not deny that Aztek is a very practical vehicle.
Ya it's ugly... ya sales are slow... ya you wouldn't buy it, but some people do like it. I would probably not buy one (mainly cause my wife would kill me), but with the prices they are giving them away at, it sure is hard to resist.
The dealers have a huge inventory of unsold Azteks. Just wait until the revised ones come out. The "old" 2001's will still be sitting there. I'll bet you will see $5000 rebates on the current ones when the new ones come out. So, If you like them, be patient a few months- you will get a near-give-way deal.
The only area where Pontiac is at or above average is #5, because Pontiacs are not expensive to repair or maintain (except inasmuch as they're unreliable, but that's covered in #1).
2, Vehicle popularity. This is quite possibly the most unpopular, disliked vehicle produced by the big 3 in the last 2 generations.
3, Supply vs. Demand. Huge supply, microscopic demand. There will be a torrent of Azteks unleashed on the public at firesale prices, especially once the new design comes out.
5. Design Generation. A new design is coming out 1 year after the original, so the original Aztek won't even get a primary market advertising boost (where ads for new Azteks, which look like the old ones, boost demand for the old ones). If you advertise a "new" Aztek, the secondary market receives no benefit from this at all.
6. Safety. The platform is legendary for its poor crash ratings. Aztek-specific ratings have yet to come out, but I'm not holding my breath.
This car is virtually guaranteed to have a residual value at or very near the bottom of all cars produced. Every single factor except for maintenance costs is weighted heavily against residuals.
You are right in saying re-sale will not be great. How bad it will be is impossible to determine. This is why I suggest you drive it into the ground or lease. If neither appeal to you, definitely not a good buy although heavy discounts will make the re-sale blow a little better.
Dindak, how could you consider buying a car that is already poor seller before you even buy it. As you know, leases are figured on residual value. So, with a low residual, you will be paying a higher note to cover the heavy depreciation. You probably could get a Lexus RX300 for near the same note. Do you think the Aztec will become popular in a few years, I think not. No wonder your wife would kill you, you would be wasting so much money. Leave the car buying to your wife, she sounds like she might make a wiser decision.
BTW, I'll never forget my experience with GM. I know it was a long time ago, but bad experience is a bad experience. Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
Here's a thought on Aztek resale values... since they are only going to look this bad for the 2001 model year, and since they aren't selling, these will be very rare. Have you priced an Edsel lately? Not cheap. Maybe we should all buy a few Azteks and put them in storage and make a killing in a few years time on the collector market!! ;-)
ab348, that was funny. But, if you put that money in a mutual fund for for 25 yr... you could buy every Aztec that was made in 2001. LOL! A friend of mine has a 1958 Edsel Citation completely loaded. Cool car. I think he paid about $8,000 for it about 4 yr ago. It has the buttons for the transmission in the center of the steering wheel. Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
I guess you make too much money to know that a Lexus and an Aztek are nowhere close in "cost". The lease payments for an Aztek would be 1/2 that for a Lexus, probably less.
20 years is a long time to hold a grudge. 20 years is a whole generation ago. While GM doesn't make the best cars in the world (aside from Corvette), they do make some pretty nice vehicle. They also have some very cool stuff coming like the Saturn Vue, 02 Escalade and Pontiac Vibe.
Now, Dindak, we've all learned about the wisdom (or lack thereof) of basing our production expectations on the concept cars GM churns out, right?
I do agree, though, GM is certainly capable of building good cars, and the Corvette (as you metion) is probably one of the finest vehicles ever produced by any company (aside from the crappy interior, mais oui). The car is the equal of supercars costing 5 times as much.
I just realized I have been spelling Aztek wrong.. sorry.
Dindak, I've seen RX's for $399.00 a month.. what would a Aztek run on a lease? It can't be much cheaper. I know the RX would cost more, but in comparison, and if you are buying... the resale would be tremendously better.
I have little bit of a GM track record even though my experience was 20 yrs ago. While I was buying imports my parents have been buying GM. When I bought a new '89 Maxima SE, my Mom bought a '89 Buick LeSabre. She had so much more trouble with little items including the transmission etc. (windows not working, car not starting) Mine was no trouble at all and we drove about the same in mileage. Both of my parents still drive Buicks of which the newer models have been OK mechanically. I like more ummmph!
I was at the Los Angeles Autoshow last week and let me tell you, the Cadillac Escalade is typical of GM. A totally plastic dashboard with cheap looking knobs and the headlights look like they came from the Ford LTD Country Squire station wagon from "Vacation". The Buick Rendezvous was not too bad looking. But in the lower price range ( >$20,000), the PT Cruiser is a winner as is the VW bug. Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
Dink give it a rest, the Aztek is a FAILURE..........GM loses market share every year..!! I bet your long lost relatives said the "world is flat".. Or "Men on the Moon: Impossible"
I bet your father said: "In 1970: WHo would ever buy those funny looking cars made by them [non-permissible content removed] companies like Toyota and Honda.."
Wake up and smell the Roses, Try sailing another ship and get off the "SS Titanic otherwise known as GM..!!!
toploozer... get a life. All you ever do is dump on everything. Your insults and repeating what you have already said 100 times does nothing but discredit you.
"I've seen DX's for $399.00 a month". This is a totally meaningless statement. How much down? What term?? What is the mileage limit?? With similar dollar amounts down and comparable lease terms, a RX will be twice the price as a mid range Aztek.
As for the Escalade, it has been receiving rave reviews. Not sure what you saw. It's way too big for me, but I'm sure it will be a big seller. PT Cruiser is more in my range though.
Sorry I do have a life and I am very interested in REAL SUV's, this weekend we went out and bought a 2001 Toyota Landcruiser. This will haul my 5000pd boat across the state of FLA.. Well maybe you could dream about owning a real SUV, until then I guess you might be able to pick up your DEATHTRAP MINIVAN with extra plastic coating. This extra layer of coating will protect your Aztek when you are park your Asstek in the "WaLmart Shopping Center" I do hope your new job as a greeter will pay your Aztek Lease... Anyway you continue to put down BMW , I guess those who cannot afford can only make fun of those of us who can...
Yes, I am one of those suckers that bought an Aztec! I really do like the vehicle, however I am experiencing some problems with the electronics- no one is quite sure of the REAL problem... This is my first time here, so be gentle. Believe me, I get a lot of grief being the only one around these parts that drives one. I would like to know if any other owners have had any problems with their Aztec? I really don't care to be involved in the apparent arguments, I understand some people hate them, but could use some help if anyone else has been experiencing any difficulties?
Dindak, I know that leases can vary greatly. If you really read what I was saying...I was saying that I bet for not much more, you could own a RX even if you pick exactly the same terms. RX's list for about $39,000 and Aztek's for about $27,000 (just guessing...not sure really) If you were considering a PT Cruiser, you have picked a great vehicle. I bet the resale value will hold pretty good. I know pretty soon they will churn'em out like cookies. But it's cool vehicle for sure. Also, I was wondering also why you always put "BMW's Rule".... what do you mean by that? Do you mean nothing else comes close? I like BMW's but Mercedes aren't too shabby either.
youbyou1, what did you consider before the Aztek? What do Azteks list for completely loaded with "tent"?
Topgn, did you consider the Sequoia? I saw at the LA Auto Show that they listed for $44,000 where the Land Cruiser was about $61,000. The Sequoia seemed like a good value for size and equipment. Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
There are so many predictions on this board about GM and the Aztek, you'd swear it was a convention of prophets and soothsayers! Magical almost, the way some people know how the Aztek will turn out.
My own crystal ball shows that the Aztek will survive, or at least a derivative of it will. I know that upsets some of the Tek haters, but yes, I predict that in the year 2010 Azteks will roam the Earth, and will have multiplied like rabbits. Have we forgotten it is a useful car? Don't we remember that the idea is incredible? While looks are more an objective matter, some might say that they are futuristic, which means they lend themselves to future trends. And if you stop and think about it, why yes! it does look futuristic or like something I have never seen before. People hated the looks of SUV's in general when they came out in the 80's. People hated the looks of the newer Dodge trucks when they first hit the roads (they sell well now). People adapt.
Could anyone explain what justifies the Lexus RX costing $40,000? Is it that great of a vehicle, or is it the cool logo that jacks the price up so much? I mean Armani isn't all that much better than the rest, but its a great way to buy a name brand that makes you feel like you fit it with the cooler kids.
Topgun. Remember that in the year 2001, YOU said "who would ever buy those funny looking cars by Pontiac called Azteks"
There is a $10K difference in list prices between an AWD Lexus ($36K) and a Aztek AWD GT (26K). Factor in what you would actually pat and the difference is probably closer to $15K. Would I rather have a Lexus... you bet. Would I buy an Aztek, not likely. I am only here to learn more about it as it is an interesting vehicle. People like topgn have unfortunately pushed out many of the people who did own or were interested in the Aztek. It's a shame. The forum should probably just be shut down.
The most important factor in lease costs is depreciation. A 1999 Lexus RX 300 has retained 84% of it's original price; It has depreciated about $5000 A 99 Plastiac Montana is worth 64% of its orig price. It's lost $8200 of its value.
Personally, I dislike the RX as well. It's a rijiggered Camry, us also relatively useless offroad, and looks stupid. Compared to the Aztek, the RX Jennifer Aniston and Mother Theresa all rolled into one, but compared to most vehicles it's a little strange looking for my tastes.
However, consider just build quality. The Aztek looks like a Tonka truck. The RX has incredible build quality, small gaps, interior accoutrements that operate with surgical precision, and it has some CLASS, some dignity, even if the aggressive design lines are a little too ambitious for a Camry. It's like the difference between Junior's 5th grade Art project and a Rembrandt.
Not a bad idea at all. GM should keep building the buzzy drones and focus solely on fleet and police sales. A huge portion of their sales are sold as fleet anyway, and police departments are now forced (egad) to buy front-wheel drive or SUV cruisers. They could still turn a buck and not have waste precious dollars paying competent designers and managers to design cars that fall somewhere in the happy middle between EXCRUCIATINGLY BORING (Monte Carlo, almost everything else) and PHYSICALLY REPULSIVE (Impala, Aztek, several hundred others).
Actual consumers with even a small dose of good taste can continue to look elsewhere. Like even Daewoo for the love of god.
Feel free to point out anything "fabricated" old bean. :-) jmatero and others have made some reasonable corrolations between the mini vans that the Aztek is based on and the Aztek itself. This is far from "fabrication."<<<
It is true that the Aztek is based upon the -Van. But to use data from those vehicles for barrier results IS fabrication. The platform provided the running gear not the body structure.
I've been watching our local dealer "Plaza Motors- Cadillac,GMC,Pontiac,Buick" because they have two Azteks out front. A deep burgundy and steel blue. I think they have been there for about two weeks so I'll see if they ever sell'em. I drive by there daily on my way to the Post Office. One car that looks really nice is the Eldorado convertible (Custom made for the dealership).
My brother, a retired Policeman, hated when they came out with anti-lock brakes because the tires would not squeal. Sometimes with the siren on, people just don't pay attention or move out of the way but when they slam on the brakes to squeal the tires, all of a sudden you have their attention. My sisters husband, a policeman, likes the crown victoria rather than the Impala's that are starting to come in. Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
The Rendezvous is a much nicer looking vehicle. Not sure it's me though. Seems more like me in 10 years. I'm more the Pathfinder/ Explorer type, maybe even the 02 Trailblazer if they are as good as the reviews are.
"The platform provided the running gear not the body structure."
Not true.
<< Give me the common part numbers then. While it is based upon the U platform, nothing in the body structure is interchangeable. Floor pan is similar, cradle is a derivative, rear suspension is a derivative but not the body. None of that can give you any indication about barrier test results. That this vehicle has hinged doors instead of sliders should enhance it's results, most mini vans tend to buckle when tested. Those big openings with little structure don't work too well in side impacts or high speed frontals. But I'm sure some lawyer funded "research foundation" will give you some results that you can skew into "results" that you like.
A few months ago, I posted that the only way GM would sell Azteks would be the same way they sell all of their unwanted vehicles: to the rental car agencies. Lo and behold, I was in Chicago a couple of weekends ago, and was renting a car at Avis. I was offered the following choices for a 'mid-size' car: Camry, Malibu, Grand Prix...or an Aztek! I thought I would laugh myself silly. The Aztek isn't the same vehicle type, nor even in the same price class, as the other three. It seems as if the rental car companies are having as hard a time just *renting* Azteks as Pontiac is selling them.
" Floor pan is similar..." Floorpan is the most important structural element of the body shell. The designs of the doors, roof, pillars have much less of effect on the overall rigidity.
I would like to say that there is nothing wrong with a critic. That said, I am still amazed by the NEGATIVE critics focused on this vehicle. I do love to read the comments, many posters have the beginning of a literary career on their hands... (chuckle). I guessed that people were going to have very strong feelings about this when I first saw the clays at Styling. I gotta admit that I didn't and don't see "IT" either! To add my voice (unrequested as it is), to the fray about the crash testing, I agree that "similar", "like", "almost", etc. ARE NOT "the same as"! I have seen enough first-hand FMVSS crash, barrier, side impact, and any number of physical abuse tests to know that there is no substitute for the real thing, the moment the vehicle hits, or is hit by another mass. Please don't try to convince me otherwise. I have seen the competition's as well as our own concepts fail, and I have seen both succeed. IF the financial, product, and manufacturing people all work together to further the product, we WILL, and HAVE, created some outstanding products suitable for YOU, the public to enjoy, love, hate, envy,despise, ad nauseaum. This is a complex business, the competition, both inside and out is incredible! When I started here 20 years ago, I never would have believed the things (idiotic, and sucessfull) that I have dealt with. I just hope we can find a product guy to lead us! (oh well, a guy can dream, can't he?)
Interesting to read your profile. What is a dimensional engineer? With all of those German cars in your background maybe you should work for D-C.
I fear that there are few, if any, "car guys" left in the management stream at GM nowadays. Seems like all of the bigwigs came there after selling soap or toothpaste or dog food. Someone -- might have been you, dunno -- posted a while back something like "the last car guys there were Stempel and Reuss and look what happened to them". Seems to me that this is what has been wrong with much of GM's product the last several years -- the decision-makers have no clue about what they are deciding. Can't imagine a Stempel looking at an Aztek and thinking it could sell.
Also, my perception is that the financial guys have an inordinate amount of influence over decisions because of the need to satisfy Wall Street and try to keep the share price pumped up. Used to be that GM was a car company first and by doing that they were able to maintain healthy share value. Now it seems like they are a financial company first and foremost that just happens to produce cars. If you have to take some content out of a car to satisfy the bean counters then it seems to get done too easily. Hence the preponderance of ugly gray interiors which are undoubtedly cheaper to produce in mass quantities than a choice of 3 or 4 colors.
The other aspect of having "car guys" in charge has to do with marketing. I get the impression today that the brand managers establish an image that they want for a line and then get the car built to match that image, regardless of whether the end product makes any sense. Car guys, when they were in the loop, used to sometimes be able to prevent that sort of nonsense from happening.
Now, please don't tell me that Wayne Cherry is considered a car guy.
Comments
I am sorry you cannot afford to drive the "ultimate Driving Machine"..
Oh well let's get back to the facts again..
If GM continues to lose market share every year as they have done since 1970 this could be ( now watch closely) a BAD THING... !!
So why buy a GM product that is already for a facelift one year after it has been introduced...?
WAKE UP... BMW RULES DUDE!!! Buy one and be cool folks. Skip the Aztek.
Topgeek has spoken!
Just curious, Mark
PS. My Bio.... I'm an Accountant, have a 2000 Mercedes E430 sport and a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ltd. Income... six figures. Want to share?
The horrible styling of the Aztek should surprise no one. Its from a company that in its infinite brand management wisdom decided to take away all cars from the Oldsmobile line that appealed to aging boomers and seniors in 1999 and then wondered gee where did all the sales go in 2000. Goodbye 88, LSS and Cutlass, what an idiotic decision. The average age of US citizens is going up and GM shifts one of its brands to attract a younger buyer. And I say this as a 30 year old. What's bad for me is that I have a GM card, so I kind of have to buy a GM. Oh how I miss my Ford Citibank Visa during times like these.
Now, my question to you...is it the looks of the Aztec that bother you so much, or the idea that someone like me would actually own it? Or should I say...someone like you!
GM Proud...GM Owner
Obviously, first it's hard for me to identify with someone who would consider *only* a Pontiac. In my humble opinion, Pontiac builds the worst-designed, least attractive, most adolescent cars sold in the US, with the lowest-quality interiors by far. They have extremely poor resale value, generally poor performance in safety tests, and have below average reliability.
I understand that your experience with your Grand Am has been good, and I assume that's because the car hasn't broken down on you. While that should certainly be a factor, objectively speaking it's merely a "stastical sample" of n=1 (where n is the number of cars surveyed, so to speak). In other words it’s more accurate to consider reliability, resale, and safety statistics as published by the guvmint, insurance institutes, etc. Because the Pontiac brand performs extremely poorly in all these areas, I’d never even consider buying one.
However, even if Pontiacs rated highly in these areas, I’d still never buy one because they remind me too much of the cars my friend Charlie used to draw in the 6th grade, but Pontiac seems to have younger and/or less skilled designers than Charlie ever was because I’m pretty sure Charlie, on his worst day, never could design anything quite as objectionable as the Aztek.
If you like the Aztek because it’s roomy, there are tons of roomy vehicles. If you like it because your Grand Am has been reliable, statistics suggest you’re unlikely to have the same luck with the Aztek. If you think the Aztek is safe, the platform it’s built on has a very poor track record. If you’re highly value-conscious due to your income level, the depreciation on this vehicle will astonish you (if hardly anybody likes new Azteks, even fewer will have any reason to consider a used Aztek, especially after the emergency facelift is completed).
Get off your Aztek high horse and at least consider that a lot of people do NOT like the Aztek..
as for "HELLORHEVN" if all you make is $18,000. a year that's ok, however you have young children PLEASE reconsider your decesion.. The Aztek is the SAME platform as the "Montana" minivan wich came in DEAD last in a insurance institute offset crash test (yes the Aztek has not been crash tested) however, with little ones you should not take any chances...
With your income level try looking a Subaru Forestor, Hyundai Santa Fe( 5 yr 60k warranty), Mazda Tribute, or my choice would be a three year old 4Runner...Plus as a working mother if financial disater were to occur than if you had the sell the Aztek you might only receive 50% of what you paid for it within one year....
Also did you know that GM has already designated the Aztek for a facelift in the year 2002.. This will Destroy the resale of the 2001.....
The idea that GM would foist this on you is what I don't like. If your Grand Am is as good as you say, what are you doing buying a new vehicle that is 50% more expensive than your annual income?
You will really take it when you try to sell too. Since GM's president even admits the Aztek is abhorrent and in need of an unheard of first year make over, the 2001's will always be called "the ugly ones"
Since Mr. Isellplastiac never responded, I did my own analysis.
a 1998 Grand Am is worth 52% of its base original price.
a 1998 Accord is worth 70% of it's new price.
Both were around 16k new. Take 22% of 16k and the difference is = $3520 (146/mo in 24 mos.)in extra depreciation the Pontiac buyers suffered.
I don't think anyone will make the argument that driving a Grand Am is worth one cent more than a driving a Honda.
Think of it as your subsidy to Hertz and Avis because the market is flooded with ex-rental cars GM practically gave away.
The point of this is that you shouldn't give your money to a company that has contempt for it's customers.
Buy a pine tree air freshner for the Grand Am and Keep your money.
BMW rules man!
Ya it's ugly... ya sales are slow... ya you wouldn't buy it, but some people do like it. I would probably not buy one (mainly cause my wife would kill me), but with the prices they are giving them away at, it sure is hard to resist.
The "old" 2001's will still be sitting there. I'll bet you will see $5000 rebates on the current ones when the new ones come out.
So, If you like them, be patient a few months- you will get a near-give-way deal.
1. Reliability
2. Vehicle popularity
3. Supply vs. demand
4. Repair/maintenance costs
5. Design generation (current/old)
6. Safety
The only area where Pontiac is at or above average is #5, because Pontiacs are not expensive to repair or maintain (except inasmuch as they're unreliable, but that's covered in #1).
2, Vehicle popularity. This is quite possibly the most unpopular, disliked vehicle produced by the big 3 in the last 2 generations.
3, Supply vs. Demand. Huge supply, microscopic demand. There will be a torrent of Azteks unleashed on the public at firesale prices, especially once the new design comes out.
5. Design Generation. A new design is coming out 1 year after the original, so the original Aztek won't even get a primary market advertising boost (where ads for new Azteks, which look like the old ones, boost demand for the old ones). If you advertise a "new" Aztek, the secondary market receives no benefit from this at all.
6. Safety. The platform is legendary for its poor crash ratings. Aztek-specific ratings have yet to come out, but I'm not holding my breath.
This car is virtually guaranteed to have a residual value at or very near the bottom of all cars produced. Every single factor except for maintenance costs is weighted heavily against residuals.
BTW, I'll never forget my experience with GM. I know it was a long time ago, but bad experience is a bad experience. Mark
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
20 years is a long time to hold a grudge. 20 years is a whole generation ago. While GM doesn't make the best cars in the world (aside from Corvette), they do make some pretty nice vehicle. They also have some very cool stuff coming like the Saturn Vue, 02 Escalade and Pontiac Vibe.
I do agree, though, GM is certainly capable of building good cars, and the Corvette (as you metion) is probably one of the finest vehicles ever produced by any company (aside from the crappy interior, mais oui). The car is the equal of supercars costing 5 times as much.
Dindak, I've seen RX's for $399.00 a month.. what would a Aztek run on a lease? It can't be much cheaper. I know the RX would cost more, but in comparison, and if you are buying... the resale would be tremendously better.
I have little bit of a GM track record even though my experience was 20 yrs ago. While I was buying imports my parents have been buying GM. When I bought a new '89 Maxima SE, my Mom bought a '89 Buick LeSabre. She had so much more trouble with little items including the transmission etc. (windows not working, car not starting) Mine was no trouble at all and we drove about the same in mileage. Both of my parents still drive Buicks of which the newer models have been OK mechanically. I like more ummmph!
I was at the Los Angeles Autoshow last week and let me tell you, the Cadillac Escalade is typical of GM. A totally plastic dashboard with cheap looking knobs and the headlights look like they came from the Ford LTD Country Squire station wagon from "Vacation". The Buick Rendezvous was not too bad looking. But in the lower price range ( >$20,000), the PT Cruiser is a winner as is the VW bug. Mark
I bet your long lost relatives said the "world is flat".. Or "Men on the Moon: Impossible"
I bet your father said: "In 1970: WHo would ever buy those funny looking cars made by them [non-permissible content removed] companies like Toyota and Honda.."
Wake up and smell the Roses, Try sailing another ship and get off the "SS Titanic otherwise known as GM..!!!
As for the Escalade, it has been receiving rave reviews. Not sure what you saw. It's way too big for me, but I'm sure it will be a big seller. PT Cruiser is more in my range though.
Well maybe you could dream about owning a real SUV, until then I guess you might be able to pick up your DEATHTRAP MINIVAN with extra plastic coating. This extra layer of coating will protect your Aztek when you are park your Asstek in the "WaLmart Shopping Center" I do hope your new job as a greeter will pay your Aztek Lease...
Anyway you continue to put down BMW , I guess those who cannot afford can only make fun of those of us who can...
This is my first time here, so be gentle. Believe me, I get a lot of grief being the only one around these parts that drives one.
I would like to know if any other owners have had any problems with their Aztec?
I really don't care to be involved in the apparent arguments, I understand some people hate them, but could use some help if anyone else has been experiencing any difficulties?
youbyou1, what did you consider before the Aztek? What do Azteks list for completely loaded with "tent"?
Topgn, did you consider the Sequoia? I saw at the LA Auto Show that they listed for $44,000 where the Land Cruiser was about $61,000. The Sequoia seemed like a good value for size and equipment. Mark
My own crystal ball shows that the Aztek will survive, or at least a derivative of it will. I know that upsets some of the Tek haters, but yes, I predict that in the year 2010 Azteks will roam the Earth, and will have multiplied like rabbits. Have we forgotten it is a useful car? Don't we remember that the idea is incredible? While looks are more an objective matter, some might say that they are futuristic, which means they lend themselves to future trends. And if you stop and think about it, why yes! it does look futuristic or like something I have never seen before. People hated the looks of SUV's in general when they came out in the 80's. People hated the looks of the newer Dodge trucks when they first hit the roads (they sell well now). People adapt.
Could anyone explain what justifies the Lexus RX costing $40,000? Is it that great of a vehicle, or is it the cool logo that jacks the price up so much? I mean Armani isn't all that much better than the rest, but its a great way to buy a name brand that makes you feel like you fit it with the cooler kids.
Topgun. Remember that in the year 2001, YOU said "who would ever buy those funny looking cars by Pontiac called Azteks"
A 1999 Lexus RX 300 has retained 84% of it's original price; It has depreciated about $5000
A 99 Plastiac Montana is worth 64% of its orig price. It's lost $8200 of its value.
The Aztek will depreciate much more.
$5000 or 8200, which vehicle cost more to own?
However, consider just build quality. The Aztek looks like a Tonka truck. The RX has incredible build quality, small gaps, interior accoutrements that operate with surgical precision, and it has some CLASS, some dignity, even if the aggressive design lines are a little too ambitious for a Camry. It's like the difference between Junior's 5th grade Art project and a Rembrandt.
Seriously, Even if the Aztec is a flop, they will all be gotten rid of, most of them being to rental fleets. So either way GM gets their pennies.
Question: will they offer all the "outdoorsy" options in the Rendevous? Just curious if they may take that approach to one-up the RX.
Actual consumers with even a small dose of good taste can continue to look elsewhere. Like even Daewoo for the love of god.
It is true that the Aztek is based upon the -Van. But to use data from those vehicles for barrier results IS fabrication. The platform provided the running gear not the body structure.
Not true.
My brother, a retired Policeman, hated when they came out with anti-lock brakes because the tires would not squeal. Sometimes with the siren on, people just don't pay attention or move out of the way but when they slam on the brakes to squeal the tires, all of a sudden you have their attention. My sisters husband, a policeman, likes the crown victoria rather than the Impala's that are starting to come in. Mark
Not true.
<< Give me the common part numbers then. While it is based upon the U platform, nothing in the body structure is interchangeable. Floor pan is similar, cradle is a derivative, rear suspension is a derivative but not the body. None of that can give you any indication about barrier test results. That this vehicle has hinged doors instead of sliders should enhance it's results, most mini vans tend to buckle when tested. Those big openings with little structure don't work too well in side impacts or high speed frontals. But I'm sure some lawyer funded "research foundation" will give you some results that you can skew into "results" that you like.
BTW, I took the Camry...
Floorpan is the most important structural element of the body shell.
The designs of the doors, roof, pillars have much less of effect on the overall rigidity.
To add my voice (unrequested as it is), to the fray about the crash testing, I agree that "similar", "like", "almost", etc. ARE NOT "the same as"! I have seen enough first-hand FMVSS crash, barrier, side impact, and any number of physical abuse tests to know that there is no substitute for the real thing, the moment the vehicle hits, or is hit by another mass. Please don't try to convince me otherwise. I have seen the competition's as well as our own concepts fail, and I have seen both succeed. IF the financial, product, and manufacturing people all work together to further the product, we WILL, and HAVE, created some outstanding products suitable for YOU, the public to enjoy, love, hate, envy,despise, ad nauseaum. This is a complex business, the competition, both inside and out is incredible! When I started here 20 years ago, I never would have believed the things (idiotic, and sucessfull) that I have dealt with. I just hope we can find a product guy to lead us! (oh well, a guy can dream, can't he?)
I fear that there are few, if any, "car guys" left in the management stream at GM nowadays. Seems like all of the bigwigs came there after selling soap or toothpaste or dog food. Someone -- might have been you, dunno -- posted a while back something like "the last car guys there were Stempel and Reuss and look what happened to them". Seems to me that this is what has been wrong with much of GM's product the last several years -- the decision-makers have no clue about what they are deciding. Can't imagine a Stempel looking at an Aztek and thinking it could sell.
Also, my perception is that the financial guys have an inordinate amount of influence over decisions because of the need to satisfy Wall Street and try to keep the share price pumped up. Used to be that GM was a car company first and by doing that they were able to maintain healthy share value. Now it seems like they are a financial company first and foremost that just happens to produce cars. If you have to take some content out of a car to satisfy the bean counters then it seems to get done too easily. Hence the preponderance of ugly gray interiors which are undoubtedly cheaper to produce in mass quantities than a choice of 3 or 4 colors.
The other aspect of having "car guys" in charge has to do with marketing. I get the impression today that the brand managers establish an image that they want for a line and then get the car built to match that image, regardless of whether the end product makes any sense. Car guys, when they were in the loop, used to sometimes be able to prevent that sort of nonsense from happening.
Now, please don't tell me that Wayne Cherry is considered a car guy.
Good luck.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6