Pontiac Aztek

lbthedog

If everything was the same? Besides the Aztek and the PT Cruiser, are there any other new cars to talk about?

mark156

lbthedog, we surely don't want things to be the same, that's why cars of the 50's and 60's did so well. They were very individual. If GM would pull from the designs from that period, you would have successes like the PT Cruiser and the VW Beetle and the upcoming Thunderbird. Several months ago Automobile magazine showed a few retro designs for the '59 Cadillac, '53 Cadillac and a few others. They were great.

GMdrone, I too would like a Bentley, it's one of my favorite cars. I saw a Silver Bentley Arnage Red Label at the LA Autoshow last week..... coooool car,425 HP. $209,000. It's amazing at that price you still have options. As I recall, rear heated seats were not standard nor is a sunroof. Mark

myfunsun

I think that gm is doing the right thing with its partnership with toyota to produce the vibe. I can't wait to get toyota quality at pontiac prices!

lbthedog

Saw a "blurb" over at the Jayski site. All sorts of NASCAR rumors. This guy claims that Pontiac has built a 340 hp Aztek to be the pace car for Daytona. Don't blame me for starting this if it isn't true but.....

barresa11

Naw...I really think the "blurb" is that the Aztek is being prepared to be a battering ram for the professional demolition derby circuit! I can think of two "positives" with this situation, 1) We will finally see just how good it is in a collision, and 2) there will be less Azteks on the road.
Sorry to kick it while it's down but the Astek is a great package w/a needlessly hideous exterior. Hopefully, the rumored "redesign" will help move some of these towards GM's goal of 75,000 units (never mind that they bragged they had the capacity to build more to meet demand!)

oac3

I started reading this forum only a couple of days ago, and quickly found that if I needed some relief from work or stress caused by the significant other, I can simply read a few more posts on the Aztek... I find your posts so full of laffs and the wife wonders what the heck is causing so much rauckus laughter each time. I will keep this site away from her for sometime. I sure enjoy you guys/gals posts. My sincere thanks to GM for making such an awful and hideous looking 'whatever'... Did see one on the freeway here in SoCal and I couldn't believe it. Ouch ! Gawd !! Geez!!! What-the-**** was that ???

Oh well, back to my rocking chair. And if I ever need a laff, I know where to find one now...

gonzo7

Some of the more sensitive readers here have complained about name calling and bashing ans such. Days ago I posted about depreciation rates providing statistical evidence about my forecasts about the Azteks depreciation and there have been no responses. I guess you prefer hearing how ugly it is.

tincup47

Pres of GM was quoted in the Automotive News that he is committed to the Aztek and according to dealer surveys, the #1 reason for purchase is styling and the #1 reason for rejection is price. He stated that GM is going to fix the price.

mark156

I thought your information was great. I'm not sure what you wanted us to say about it, but thanks for your input. I, too, had mentioned how depreciation rates would effect lease payments so it was nice to see actual rates. That's why I compared the RX300 with the Aztek. Happy Motoring

Mark

barresa11

And I would venture to guess that the #1 reason for "not buying" would also be styling! Yea, that certainly equals a vehicle capable of competition fear inspired sales success. Once again, GM demonstates the type of selective hearing they have been so guilty of in the last couple of decades!

Sporin

Not a rumor...

Aztek WILL pace the Daytona 500... here it is.



330 hp, much bigger wheels, painted all that grey plastic with body color. This goes a long way towards "fixing" the Aztek design. I wonder how much this one-off will influence the redesign?

I give credit where credit is due... still not my cup-of-tea, but it is a giant improvement.

dindak

Wow... That does look better. The lack of cladding helps big time. Still think I would sooner go Rendezvous.

Picture is great !!

vadp

In my opinion the Daytona Aztek looks much better than the Rendezvous.
Cool color too!

Sporin

Yeah, I don't think the Rendezvous is very good looking either. It's certainly not as "gaudy" as the Aztek, but the proportions and weird hatch shape haven't changed. I think it's only "good looking" in comparison to it's Pontiac cousin.

gonzo7

The pace car actually looks pretty good. It looks more like the original prototype than the production one did.
What is sad about the pace car is that Pontiac has admitted what was obvious to any one with eyes. The classing is ugly and the wheels look too small. If it is obvious to both them and us,
Why did they make it that way in the first place?

Answer: Corporate arrogance.

ruteger

'Corporate Arrogance' is something that's been ingrained into the GM system for quite a long time. Unfortunately, they'll never get over it and it will eventually be the ultimate downfall of the corporation. Besides the Aztek, the abandonment of the Oldsmobile nameplate is another recent example of how fouled-up things continue to be at GM.

I suppose the Aztek Pace Car is an improvement if one swooned over the styling of the Korean-built Pontiac LeMans of a few years back. Personally, though, I think the Aztek, unless it's completely and dramatically redesigned, is going to be doomed to always fall into the category of 'You Can't Polish a Turd'.

It's amusing that the 'best' thing GM can come up with to pace the Daytona 500 is the Aztek. The f-bodies are going to be discontinued next year. They used the Monte Carlo (no great styling tour de force there, either) last year. They should probably stick to just using the Corvette (the Z06 would have been okay), but that's about it. Using the Aztek to pace the Daytona 500 glaringly shows the lack of anything even remotely interesting coming from GM anymore.

I still say the Aztek was really designed by the French and/or Homer Simpson.

dindak

You are beating a dead horse dude.

jmatero

You see, in the picture above, that the roof, rear hatch and window surrounds (formerly painted the car color) are now all black. This is excellent because it hides all of the odd lines (mainly in the tail end) and just uses the vertical C pillar as "accent". Also, by painting the plastic lower cladding, the old horizontal fender lines are gone which make the wheels look bigger.

hellorhevn

I have been gone for a few days, and seem to have not missed much in the line of postings. I see some are still GM bashing and well others have managed to calm themselves a little.
I may not have gotten much help in finding my next automobile from any of you, but I have gotten quite a few laughs. And the car salesman at my local Pontiac dealer, well lets just say we might be hearing from him soon. He wasn't too pleased when I printed your postings out and delivered them to him at my last test drive.
I still think Azteks are nice looking vehicles. Yet I will agree the Daytona Aztek is much better looking. And since I am in no hurry to purchase anytime soon, I think I'll be holding out for the 2002's.
Untill then...Happy Postings!

mark156

Hellorhevn, if you buy an Aztek, you won't be laughing at the depreciation hit you be taking. All cars depreciate, that's a fact, but why torture yourself. My '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ltd. QD, 4x4 listed for $38,000, pd $34,000. When I trade for a 2002 model car, I'm assuming I'll get about $20,000 on it wholesale. $14,000/3yrs is $4,666.70 a yr. depreciation. Not too bad in my opinion. So, I retained 59% of value in 3 yrs. from what I paid against what I will get wholesale. I may decide to sell it myself which would increase my percentage. Mark

p0926

dindak- The Aztek isn't dead yet....that's why it's still subject to repeated beatings. Besides, it's fun!

What I find interesting is how Pontiac has managed to pull off a rare feat...they've produced a vehicle that has received an almost universal reaction. Never mind that this reaction is purely negative, it's still highly unusual that such a large majority can agree on the merits (or lack thereof) of any one vehicle design.

Hey that Daytona pace car does look better. They still need to rework the beak, slab sides and rear end, but at least it's a start.

-Frank P.

teo

This morning I saw 2 Azteks....both of them were driven (A red and a dark blue model)by what it looked like middle aged women....I wonder if women really find the Aztek more appealing than men do???

Also, I visited my Pontiac dealer during the weekend to test drive a new Bonneville and a Grand Prix GT....my salesman told me that they are selling an average of 4 or 5 Azteks a month!!! Their store is losing money big time with those behemoths in his lot. Compare to a sales average of 25 to 30 Grand Prix models he sells per month. He also told me that most people, including, himself hated the rear hatch design and the overall exterior looks of the vehicle. I climbed inside one in the showroom, and I found the interior very spacious and extremely well put together by GM build standards...too bad the rest of the vehicle is not in par with the interior.

tincup47

for the Aztek have been far off the target. Average buyer is 42 yo female, far from the youth market the vehicle was targeted at. For all the discussion, it basically is being bought by people who want a minivan that is different, not by traditional SUV buyers.

gmdrone

is a name that they give to my thankless search for the perfect part. I spend my time measuring all of the parts, processes and operations in search of six sigma. It is a bit like holding your arm into the fire and timing how long it takes for the flesh to catch fire. I know that it sounds like a joke, but about sums up my function. The other part of it is trying to devise a way to bring the part, process, or product back into specification with no power to release or alter. I must convince a committee of accountants or engineers (usually book-learned with MBAs and no idea of which end of the screwdriver to insert into the screw) that something needs to be done, and how to do it.
Seriously, I am a twenty year veteran of product and manufacturing engineering. I started in the now-defunct Fisher Body Division, and have survived the meaningless restructuring and re-naming of countless divisions. I believe that the demise of GM started when Roger Smith rose to power in the early 80s and introduce the idea of fiscal responsibility.
I AM convinced that the corporate stratagey is to out source all aspects of manufacturing, from the design clear through production. That will be too bad, because we used to make good cars, and we still do, it's just that they don't have any souls any more, and for car guys, that's a shame!

By the way, NO. Wayne Cherry is NOT a car guy! Harley lives forever in my heart, as does Zora!

vadp

"That will be too bad, because we used to make good cars, and we still do, it's just that they don't have any souls any more, and for car guys, that's a shame!"

Souls or QUALITY?

dindak

teo: Big problem in hitting the target is price. I have talked to teens who think it's totally cool, but they can't afford it. Perhaps with the re-design for 2001 will come a new price/option package.

gmdrone: I think there are some really good cars/trucks mixed in the GM line-up. Unfortunately, GM has neglected the small/ entry level cars like Cavalier and Saturn. I really hope the money they are pouring into new small cars produces something good. The new Saturn Vue, Rendezvous and Pontiac Vibe look like a good start.

ruteger

You are absolutely correct. Smith's rein as CEO of GM is the real culprit of the state of the corporation today. Although all domestic manufacturers were miserable in the seventies, Smith excaserbated the situation manifold times when he was at the helm in the eighties and hastened what appears to be an irreversable downward spiral. The Pontiac Aztek is nothing more than another segment of the continuing saga of GM corporate mismanagement.

vadp

"The new Saturn Vue, Rendezvous and Pontiac Vibe look like a good start."

Good start? Give me a break.
BTW the Vibe is a Toyota design.

lbthedog

There is a difference. I guess a lot of the posters here are just like the people who used to buy the Eagle Talon/Mitsubishi I forgot the name, Though both were built on the same line, same everything except facias, the Mitsubishi got totally different quality ratings. Granted the the Vibe will have Toyota running gear, it is not a Toyota. The Matrix is a Toyota all the way. The lines of who does what are getting a bit blurry around Detroit but don't give Toyota credit for the Vibe.

vadp

Talon and Eclipse were twins.
The Vibe and Matrix are going to be exactly the same wayl.
How can they have different reliability ratings?
They are essentially the same vehicle, that will be build on the same assembly line from the same components by the same assembly workers.

drzoom1

Hello all,
I have been lurking for a few weeks and would like to introduce myself. I'll (35 yom) be purchasing a new car for my young family (wife, 2 year old and 6 month) late this summer. The Aztek in on our short list (along with Regal, Aurora and Saturn L series wagon) primarily because of its looks. We are leary of purchasing another Pontiac (have Sunbird, sold Grand Am a few years ago) and we have had great luck with our '94 Regal (105,000 with only replacing the battery, tires @ 100,000 and struts at 105,000). Our concern with the Aztek is resale value, safety (I have not yet reviewed any impact tests) and long-term reliability. My guess is the drive train/engine will be not be a problem (as much as possible for a Pontiac) since it is not a new design. My concern is things like electrical, paint, interior etc. We will be looking hard at year end offers (July/August) for Azteks and Auroras.

This is my first new car purchase. Will try to keep you posted.

dindak

"They are essentially the same vehicle, that will be build on the same assembly line from the same components by the same assembly workers".

Actually you are wrong... the Vibe will be made in California, Matrix will be asembled in Ontario and the Vibe is a JOINT design between GM and Toyota. There is a lot of Pontiac in Vibe.

As for your other scoffing, care to explain?

jcandor

Dr Zoom: I hate to start the day off on a sour note, but you have got to be kidding me. The Sunbird truly has the distinction of being the single most awful car produced in the past 15 years, in every single category. I got one for a loaner once and after 2 days in it, I wanted to gnaw off my own arm and beat myself unconscious with it. For the love of GOD, there are other companies out there besides GM. If you're leery of buying another Plastiac, may I humbly suggest, then, that you at least consider...another brand??!?

If you're concerned about resale value, here's a hint: The market is flooded with unwanted, despised Azteks. The vehicles are already legendary for their unrelenting offensiveness and unmitigated dislikability. Think of something else that exists in abundance, is ugly, and for which there is no market demand. Like, say, dead cats. How much would you pay for a dead cat? If you did purchase a dead cat, how much resale value could you reasonably expect to recover? Very little, because dead cats are ugly, unpopular, and all too common, just like Azteks.

Finally, I have to ask what kind of tires you put on the Regal. You say you squeezed 100,000 miles out of 'em? You must have been halfway through the steel belts. Either that or you bought tires made of solid stone. I mean to say, that's only two to three times as much wear and tear as the hardest-compound tire available anywhere outside North Korea.

Either way, you're evidently not THAT concerned about your family's safety or you wouldn't buy the hardest-compound, worst-performing tires on the planet and/or wear them down to the belts, and then ponder the purchase of a "family" vehicle based on a platform that earned the lowest possible safety rating from the federal government. It would be cheaper and probably safer if you forego tires altogether and just drive around on your rims. You could get at least 150,000 miles that way and could save yourself the inconvenience and expense of wasting money on tires that actually offer traction.

Along the same lines, have you considered removing and selling your headlights and tail lights? I imagine you could place a small candle in the back window and just carry a flashlight in the front with you, occasionally turning it on at night in case any other cars, pedestrians, animals, etc. are in your way. In the long run, you could probably save a hundred dollars if everything goes just right, and you could auction the headlights on Ebay and get another $30 for the set.

But even that could not compete with the joy of driving on balding, rock-hard tires, squeezing preposterous amounts of deadly mileage out of them, every additional mile another victory over common sense, public safety, and basic human decency. Every mile another nickel saved and another head-on collision outwitted.

But perhaps I'm overreacting.

BTW, your wife's a bit young, isn't she? Do you live in West Virginia?

gonzo7

And some people called ME harsh.

dindak

"But perhaps I'm overreacting."

Ya think?????????? Jeeze.. take it easy bud.

p0926

jcandor- Too much coffee this morning or what? I'll admit I was shocked by the 100K tires but then I noted that drzoom1 stated that he had never purchased a new car so I figured that the 94 Regal probably had new tires on it when he bought it used.

-Frank P.

mark156

jcandor, that is one of the funniest letters. I hope drzoom1 can see the humor in it.

drzoom1, surely you can expand your list that doesn't include doomed vehicles. You won't be able to find parts for your Aurora in a few years. Yep, GM screwed up again and their having to cut out the whole Olds line. Even the Aztek your thinking about has been slated for a major change (according to the folks in this forum). You might want to consider a different brand like jcandor suggested. I'm assuming you are looking in the $26/27K range or less. A Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, Nissan Pathfinder, Toyota CRV, Dodge Caravan, Honda Accord, or the Honda Odyssey , there are so many more popular vehicles available that have decent resale value and demand on the used car market.
Mark

vadp

Automotive News
Jan.8, 2001

"Jointly developed by General Motors and Toyota, the Vibe will be built off the Corolla platform.
The Vibe and the matching Toyota vehicle will be assembled at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA. Both front-wheel and all-wheel-drive will be offered.
"It was a true collaboration," said Robert Reuter, GM's chief engineer for joint venture programs."
"Pontiac defined the styling. Toyota did the execution.""

TOYOTA DID THE EXECUTION!!!

How about that, dindak?

oac3

thanks a mil' for making my day !!! your write-up on drzoom1's request is a classic ! i say it once again, you can beat an aztek for laffs..... geez, jcandor, say, did you consider writing as a career ? the world can surely enjoy more of your humor and 'candor' (no pun intended) on matters dear to you.

keep u the good work (ehm, writing) and i'll stop by here to read about the aztek and jcandor especially. you have a fan in me now...

peace

jcandor

Whether I succeeded is debatable I guess, but I did intend the above diatribe to be funny. I have to admit that I was a little hot under the collar about driving 100,000 miles on a set of tires, but as "p0926" (and, wow, what a pen name) says, he probably bought the car used. Whew.

Writing actually is my profession, but I haven't figured out a way to get paid for writing screeds like the one above yet. I just pound the Aztek for my own, private amusement. I mean, it just never gets old. It just keeps getting funnier and funnier.

Somebody, pleeaase, tell me again about how brave GM was for building something "new" and "different" and not at all like all the other "boring cookie-cutter" cars out there like...uh...the Miata, the MR-2, the Jeep Liberty, the Honda S2000 or Insight, the BMW Z3, the Porsche Boxster, the PT Cruiser, the Plymouth Prowler, any of the Jaguars and...lets see...the Ford Focus, the Volkswagen Beetle, any Audi, and...what else am I missing? Yes, just a bunch of anonymous people-pods. I say, thank you, GM, for going out on a limb and trying something different, just to break up the monotony.

I'm done, I'll be quiet now.

ngliebe

I enjoyed the sarcasm in your last posting.
Your'e right..."new" and "different" isn't always good. (usually,...Just not by GM). The [non-permissible content removed]-tick is an obvious disaster. It cannot be disputed.
Plastiac is a joke of a brand. Mark my words,
Buick will meet the identical fate of Oldsmobile in four years. It's embarrassing that such a cornerstone of our beloved American Auto Industry is a joke in our own country. Thank the UAW for that. Even the salesguy I know at the Plastiac dealer near us will not drive one ([non-permissible content removed]-tick)home--He's afraid of what the neighbors will think.

vadp

ngliebe,
yep, exactly. UAW IS the reason.

rkuehn

Just got my first up-close look at an Aztek in a hotel parking lot, might be a rental vehicle. Good God it is offensive. I think it was the entry-level version with tiny go-kart wheels.

If one must shop for an Aztek PLEASE wait for the refresh. We don't any more of the current public menace design on the road. And we don't want to reward the design team for this disaster.

Suggest the Toyota Highlander (base not Limited) would be a good alternative, price is comparable. Maybe the Buick Rendezvous, it looks OK. Escape/Tribute might be good for MY2002, but its definitely a first-year model to avoid given the recalls.

God it was awful...

dindak

Not sure about your source, but this is from the Toyota corporate web site :

"Matrix will be built exclusively at Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Canada, in Cambridge, Ontario".

and a link for the whole story...

http://www.toyota.com/html/about/news/archive/press_release/product/docs/2001/20010108matrix.jsp

vadp

I suspect that the Matrix is going to be just one of the several versions of the Toyota variant.
There is not enough of information available at the moment.
And It looks like Toyota and GM themselves are not really sure how it's gonna all play out.

drzoom1

Good evening jcandor. I was rolling with laughter after reading your post at work today. You did succeed by posting a very humorous tirade:) You have no idea how disappointed I was that I did not bring my Edmunds Password to work so that I could immediately reply to your post. Where does the hostility come from? Do you work for the Fords or DC? Or has GM downsized you? I'm amazed that one person with so much disdain over a particular model of car would spend so much time on a bulletin board about that car. I, for example, do not care for figure skating. However, I do not hang out on figure skating web sites slamming people who do like figure skating.

FYI, Our Sunbird has succeeded in being a very economical car. My wife bought the car before we got married and paid around $11k seven years ago. Since then, we have only replaced the alternator, battery and the tires. While others no doubt have had problems with Sunbirds (why else would they stop making them?), we have had good luck. That being said, I agree that it is a weak car. No power and lots of road noise to name a few weaknesses. However, it is easy to service (spark plugs, oil, air filter) and it definitely beats car payments. I'd rather buy a $25k car and pay cash than buy a $35k car and make payments. JC, I hope we can agree that car payments in general are not cool.

Regarding the 100,000 mile tires. I bought the Buick from the original owner with the original tires. The tires were in degraded shape when I replaced them, but they were by no means a safety hazard. Indeed, they still had tread when I replaced them.

Are you still reading JC? The resale value is probably not a big issue as we plan on keeping the car for 6-7 years and 100,000+ miles. The difference in resale between an originally $25k car with that type of wear is likely to be insignificant (say $2-3,000 by the year 2007/8).

Mark, we are early in the selection process and are considering other cars. However, we will have about $3k in GM points come this summer. Compared to Toyotas, that buys a lot of cool GM features/power and still leaves some $ left over for an extended warranty. The Toyotas I've taken a look at seemed, imho, to be a bit bland. The Camry is pretty striped down compared to, say, a Regal. Regardless, I'll be stopping by a Honda dealership this weekend to check out the Accord.

Car appeal is very subjective.

JC, I hope you at least agree that me spending this time answering you posts is as silly as your passionate reply to my original post. Good luck with your budding writing career. I'll keep you posted as my shopping venture goes forward.

dindak

drzoom1 : Unfortunately, this forum has attracted a number of GM bashers and some others with very extreme views. The verbal attacks were certainly not needed. Aztek does suffer from likely low re-sale and is a bit ugly to most, but it pretty decent in the utility department and is pretty well built. GM points are a very strong reason to buy something from GM and there is nothing wrong with that.

vadp : All the information you need is at the Toyota web site. It's quite clear. Perhaps the writer of the article you read has made a mistake.

pilot374

I'll try to yell over the sound of Jcandor and his groupies patting each other on the back. Pure literary genius, worthy of Whitman or Steinbeck. The Aztek is a great vehicle for purpose and function. It rides nice and is very comfortable and roomy. Buying concerns can be narrowed down to a general "what will become of this car?" Will it be restyled slightly for next/this year? Will it be completely rehauled soon (3 years or so)? Will it be discontinued in the relative near future? Nobody knows for sure, probably not even GM. Probably the Aztek will not be discontinued, but restyle is likely. That means that the current models will be marked down drastically and you can get a great deal on one. Others say that the platform the Aztek is built on is not good in crash tests. That is based on the Montana's crash results (Montana and Aztek are built on the same platform). But the Aztek's actual crash results are not available yet, so nobody can truly say it is an unsafe vehicle, yet. Good luck...

drzoom1

Good to see the voice of common sense! To be honest with you, my wife and I are not hell-bent on any particular car, other than the fact we prefer GM to take avantage of our points. Despite being an engineer, I'm not a gearhead who lives to compare compression ratios between engines. Not that doing this is a bad thing, I just simply don't care about that level of detail.

As you all are aware, you lose negotiating strenght when all you want is one model. Come this summer we will have an order of prefered cars, but we will purchase based on the best deal available considering third party extented warranty costs (regardless of reliabilty ratings, I don't want the headache on unplanned repair bills), accumulated GM points, rebates and possibly even financing options (i.e. the 0.9% finance option).

Regardless, it is great to have the WWW to hear ALL opinions, whether one agrees or not. So, JC and Company, take it easy and enjoy your day.

gonzo7

The Aztek will be redesigned next year. The President of GM has even said so. Notice how you no longer see ads for the aztek? GM pulled them because they don't weant people seeing how ugly the thing is. They want so redesign it and save the concept. Basically "wait til next season"

The current ones will always be the ugly ones and are and will continue to be given away.

One question for GM lovers: Why do they spell it "gages" on the dashboard but "gauges" in the brochures?