Pontiac Aztek

topgn

Thank's agiain, that article you posted about the Aztek is GREAT>....!!

mrobinson3

Yes, this is an odd comparison. I was looking for a car with good gas economy and a large, versatile storage area, and since my wife has a great Pontiac Bonneville, I thought the Aztek might be a good choice, offering some of the same do-dads and features I liked from her car.
Of all cars I compared on their merits, I stumbled across the Chevy Astro. I didn't even know they made them any more. Anyway, I went to a dealer and got inside. What a ride! Man, for an older design, that thing is top rate for the amount of money it costs. I see ancient ones from the 80's here and there, so they must be reliable.
Back to gas economy. No way would I buy a Jimmy or a Suburban or even a Land Cruiser for that matter -- the Nissan Xterra stinks, too. But I read reviews on the 2wd Aztek saying it gets only 18mpg on average -- the same reviewers gave the 2wd Astro 15mpg! With a 27 gallon (bam!) gas tank!
So my choice comes down to cavernous cargo space and removable 3rd row seat, or modern styling plus 3 mpg.
I actually like the Aztek style (gasp), and it appears a little smaller, in case I need to do city driving. But if I remain out in the suburbs/country commuting to work on back roads with no traffic.....
It looks like a no brainer when you compare the prices and the features.
What do you think? (Aside from the fact that the Astro/Safari is an old design)

- Mason

gonzo7

They should offer that with a "screaming chicken"
hood sticker as a commerative "Smokey and the Bandit 25 Anniv. edition". Maybe stick some of those phony side fender vents on it too- that's the only gimmick they forgot.

dindak

I think "topgn" forgets that not everyone can afford a "BMW". I'm not sure why he keeps bragging about it here. Don't think anyone cares about as we are not comparing cars.

barresa62 : Fear mongering people is silly. The Aztek is safe, it's just not as safe as other cars. Why do you care, you live in Ireland??

barresa11

No, I don't live in Ireland. You'll find that you can change your flag by changing your location on your profile. I did it to show my heritage...ok..I was bored.

I said specifically based on the AVAILABLE CRASH DATA, the Aztek is not a safe vehicle. I should have included a tag line of: It's all relative or something like that. Sorry if you think it's "fear mongering", it's not! Anyhow, it's not like it's going to hurt the Aztek's sales numbers. It seems like a lot of the buyers don't listen to reason anyhow....and that's ok. Maybe, I'm the one unreasonbable...naw, I'm just stubborn. Must be that Irish heritage thing! :-)

Stephen

dindak

Of course it's fear mongering. The Aztek is perfectly safe and saying it is not safe is inferring that you have a good chance of getting into an accident and/or being hurt. That is simply not true. There is a slightly better chance you may be injured in CERTAIN crashes but that is all these tests show. If you say a Pinto is unsafe, I will agree.

As for sales, the only thing that will help is the re-skin for 2002. Hurry up Pontiac!

theiceman

You're quite within your rights to express your disapproval of anybody telling you that you're putting your children at risk regardless of what vehicle you choose. There are certainly far more respectful ways of saying "the Aztek received 3 stars for rear passenger protection in side impact tests". That unassailable fact should stand on its own - without the embellishment of extremist and alarmist rhetoric - and owners and prospective buyers should be aware of it.

The fear-mongering seems to be intent on needling Aztek owners and is certainly ignoring:

1. that there are some otherwise fine vehicles (lets use the 2000-01 BMW 3-series as an example) that have never been independently tested for side impact;
2. that the NHTSA uses adult-sized dummies in its tests and does not use its crash test results to make conclusions about the safety of children; and
3. there are other very popular vehicles which have earned 3 stars or less for side-impact protection of rear passengers: Buick Century, Buick Regal, Chev. Lumina, Chrysler Concorde, Chrysler LHS, Daewoo Leganza, Dodge Intrepid, Dodge Neon, Ford Escort, Ford Focus 2dr, Ford Mustang, Ford Taurus, Mazda 626, Mazda Millenia, Nissan Altima, Oldsmobile Intrigue, Pontiac Grand Am, Toyota Camry, Toyota Corolla, Volkswagen Beetle.

There are two further points which have to be made on this last item:

1. some of these cars test extremely well in the IIHS tests. Among the above cars which receive NHTSA's 3 star ratings for rear seat side impact protection and which were also tested by the IIHS and received acceptable or better results there, you will find:

Toyota Camry (IIHS best pick midsize) Mazda 626 (good) Nissan Altima (acceptable) Mazda Millenia (acceptable) Chev. Lumina (IIHS best pick fullsize) Ford Taurus (IIHS best pick fullsize) Buick Regal (acceptable) Dodge Intrepid/Chrysler Concorde(acceptable) Ford Taurus (IIHS best pick fullsize) Volkswagen Beetle(IIHS best pick small cars) Toyota Corolla(acceptable) Ford Escort(acceptable)

2. Given the huge disparity between the Azteks sales and the sales figures for any of the above cars, I would wager that more children will travel in the back seats of these vehicles than in the Aztek. As I had stated in an earlier post, if it was the welfare of our children that was at the heart of the fear-mongerers who criticize the parenting acumen of Aztek owners, their "arguments" would logically have greater impact elsewhere. The fact that these arguments continue to be made here by self-avowed Aztek haters perhaps explains their persistence in remaining here when there is greater work to be done elsewhere protecting our future generations.

I must apologize for wading into this forum. I had promised myself that I would stay away from here until the attention-seekers got bored and went elsewhere - of course, that may never happen so I had resigned myself to never coming back. I had only wanted to post a link to a report on the design tweak (and speculation about a price drop) and other links to some reviews I recently came across...

the new design: click2houston.com
a review: roadtestonline.com
another review: consumersfirstlook.com

Cheers! theiceman

gonzo7

If I had passed on any of the many ripe quotes in the story: http://www.click2houston.com/sh/money/stories/money-20010129-110112.html

I would have been called rude names.

garlascop

My wife & I actually like the Aztec (Insert insult here).

Anyway, we're looking to buy the AWD GT version but only want it in Yellow.
We took one for a test drive but were told that Yellow is not available.

I was kind of surprised by this since its in all the commercials, their web site & on the portfolio they sent us.

Does anyone have any evidence to refute this?

I think the dealer is just trying to get rid of their leftovers.

I live in N.Y.

Thanks

tonychrys

Obligatory insult: Aztek? And in yellow? Yeecchh! It's sort of like the guy who buys the yellow corvette beacuse no one else wanted it, so that's the only way he could afford a corvette. The only car that looks good in yellow is a Ferrari.

Here's the answer: Go to www.gmbuypower.com
Plug in your zip code and you'll be able to search all the dealer's inventory within any radius you want. I actually already did a search and Yellow isn't an available color according to the site.

Good luck and happy hunting.

gonzo7

Bait and Switch

tonychrys

Actually, I'd like to post a retraction: It was an insult to the Corvette and Ferrari to put them in the same sentence as the Aztek.

Now back to our regulary scheduled marketing disaster.

dindak

tonychry : Another day.. same joke.

garlascop : Have seen a yellow one, but I'm not sure if it was AWD. I think yellow is probably the best color I've seen. Looks good on the Escape also.

iceman : Well said again!

topgn

"Marketing Disaster"

Can you think of another vehicle that was MORE of a failure than the Aztek in the last 30 years
(cannot include the Yugo)...trivial pursuit question...???

tonychrys

Actually I can... and can't. It was back in '80 - 82? My boss at the time bought a car, first year model, which was soon orphaned within 2 years. I think it was a Chrysler sedan. For the life of me I can't remember the name of it. He thought it was hot stuff, I remember thinking what a piece of marketing crap soon to be orphaned.

dindak

Don't you guys every get tired of posting the same thing over and over??

mark156

Tony, was it the Chrysler Imperial? Chrysler tried to copy the "slanted trunk" of the '80-'85 Cadillac Seville. Chrysler wanted to bring back the "Imperial" name plate with a 2 door version coupe. I think this Imperial only lasted two years. A remember a friend of mine was a Chrysler fanatic and loved that car. I didn't care for it.

Mark

guy21

Marketing disaster 2

When Pontiac tried to market the GTO in the Nova body with a Chevy engine. Don't remeber the year.

gonzo7

1974

tonychrys

Nope, not the Imperial, but I think it was like the LeBaron, but it wasn't a LeBaron. And it might have been a Dodge, not sure.

Oh god, hate this. It's like when that song is stuck in your head!

millergr

Just thought I would respond to Yellow Azteks. I have a Yellow AWD GT on order which will be built the week of April 16th. Currently there are not any yellow ones on the lot since they have just recently restarted production. The yellow was supposed to have been a 2002 color but GM was able to pull that color ahead for 2001 due to public reaction of the concept car.

Look forward to reading more posts about the Aztek and can't wait for DIMELESS Chrysler to go under!

Greg

tonychrys

I just thought of it, it was a Dodge Mirada, cousin to the Imperial.

And Dodge only sold 5,120 Miradas, so yea, they beat Pontiac in terms of bad marketing. Plus there were tons of recalls.

teo

The host has given up in the 'Circus' this topic has become.

Now we are discussing ancient car marketing failures such as the Dodge Mirada...go figure.

Wanna talk about marketing failures:

the entire Chrysler line-up except the PT Cruisers. No and don't blame Daimler for their current situation...their products simply suck in terms of quality and reliability.

However, no one dares to attack Dodge or Chrysler because the cab forward boats look pretty.

Grow up bashers!

tonychrys

Chrysler is a joke also... jeez, just go over to the "Jeep Grand Cherokee" discussion and see folks post the same problems, over and over. What's really a joke is how every owner starts off with "I really love my JGC, I've only had to replace the driveshaft, brakes, etc."

The joke is on the American public who've become apathetic and have been convinced by the Big 3 that these type of quality issues are normal. I can tell you from owning both American and Japanese vehicles, there IS a difference in quality and overall execution. My current GM vehicle is reliable, but it "feels cheap". Plus, trying to get warranty service is like pulling teeth.

But let's get back to talking about the Azzztek!

dindak

Japanese/US quality and reliability gap gets smaller every year. It's almost not worth talking about any more on newer models. Consumer Report's new issue shows that, not that I take much stock in their reviews.

tonychrys

I don't disagree with you per se, but the bottom line is that I own both American and Japanese and can speak from personal experience. And from personal experience, it amazes me whenever I talk to somone who has only owned American cars all their lives and really thinks that rampant problems are "to be expected."

And the only thing you can do about the "cheapness" is either hire better designers, or get rid of all that expensive UAW labor so that there is more money left over to use better quality components with tighter tolerances, and still be able to price-compete in the marketplace.

I better stop now before I really start to rant...

Now let's talk about the Aztek!

dindak

Well I've owned both Japanese and American and I've had good luck with both. My neighbor had the transmission blow on his 99 Accord so I know Japanese cars aren't perfect either. Basically I just buy whatever I deem the best value performance and quality wise. I looked at buying another Accord, but I liked the Intrigue better (and it was a better deal than the V6 Accord). I have zero regrets.

As for the Aztek, I am not really interested in it but I am very interested in it's Mexican cousin the Rendezvous. From what I hear from owners of the Aztek is there are no major quality issues which is a good sign. Other vehicles I am looking at include the RAV4, Saturn Vue, Ford Escape and Mazda Tribute. Basically a smaller SUV with decent mileage. Who knows, if the re-skinned Aztek looks a bit better I may even take another look.

garlascop

Thanks for the info millergr.

I'll go this weekend to see if I can order one from a different dealer!

topgn

When looking at reliability of the top automotive lines including GM , in the year 2000, they were rated as the following:

1. Acura
2. Lexus
3. Infiniti

GM, the father of the Axtek, was not even in the top 5 ...

dindak

Those cars all cost thousands more than an average GM vehicle. They better be better!

gonzo7

And after Infiniti, Lexus and Acura come:

4. Honda
5. Toyota
6. Nissan
7. Subaru
8. Mazda

(are you seeing a pattern here?)

These are priced about the same as the GM line up- now, what's the excuse?

gonzo7

Not surprisingly, the Saturn is GM's highest ranking product at # 16.
The rest of the GM's are at the end of the list just above
Jaguar and Jeep.

How can GM make a higher quality product for Saturn but not the others?

If quality matters at Saturn as their words and actions indicate, Did they decide quality doesn't matter for Pontiac,Olds etc...?

Again- they are interested in making cheap cars(in quality and price) for Hertz and Avis.

dindak

First of all.. the top 5 are :

Lexus

Porsche

Infiniti

Toyota

Acura

Buick is 10th, Cadillac is 11th and Oldsmobile is 13th.Some Japanese brands like Nissan and Mazda finished 19th and 20th.

GM cars are right in the middle. Not the best, but far from the worst. The big problem with what you have presented is the there is always a story behind the numbers. The difference between the rankings is not very big. For example :

Toyota has 299 problems per 100 cars, Buick has 340.

http://www.jdpower.com/global/jdpaawards/releases/110200.html

barresa62

Many similiarly priced "foreign origin" vehicles made it ahead of GM on the JD Powers list, whether or not it was by 1 pt or 1000 they still had better quality. And, yes I agree that the gap is closing. The point was, it still exists.

Stephen

lbthedog

The stats you reference (J D Power) are close but are not the "bottom line". The only valid numbers to judge "quality" are held by the manufacturers. Those numbers are based upon warranty claims. J D Power doesn't get those numbers from manufacturers. Ford, GM, DCX, Toyota and the rest would be insane to let the "fox inside the hen house". They get their data from owners that they survey. There is a gap. But that does not mean every Toyota is perfect. Neither does it mean every Aztek is a lemon. But these days the quality issue more a matter of chance. I believe the quality issue has left the manufacturer and is now in the hands of the dealer. You have a better chance of getting a bad dealer than a bad car.

tonychrys

"But that does not mean every Toyota is perfect. Neither does it mean every Aztek is a lemon."

Absolutely agree!

" But these days the quality issue more a matter of chance. "

Absolutely disagree!!!!

The only number that matters is the percentage of defects per cars sold. And I propose that if theoretically GM sold 1000 cars there would be 100 bad ones (10% defect rate) and Toyota sold 500 cars there would be 25 bad ones (5% defect rate). These are numbers for illustrative purposes.

There will be bad cars in EVERY brand, but the percentage is determined by the quality/tolerances on the components used, the assembly and QA/QC methods in place, and the overall attitude of the workers and management in a company.

Ever hear the horror stories of the "Friday built" GM cars? Nothing like UAW workers dropping whatever they are doing so that they can make that afternoon beer.

I'd still like to know how my seatbelt got installed backwards on my Pontiac. Nothing like paying attention to the details...

drew_

Guys, let's get back to the Aztek. There are discussions in the News & Views message board regarding domestic vs. import brand names. Continue them there please.

Thanks

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards

kissfan1

AZTEK CHRONICALS

Well, the drive to Florida was eventfull. We left last Friday from Toronto in clear weather. By time we hit Buffalo there was a driving snow storm. We needed to get further then Buffalo so we pressed on. (againest my better judgement). The Aztek was rock solid in the snow. We saw 18 wheelers ditched and a Lexus 300 flipped over it was a bad accident and had us a little shakin. As we carefully pressed on south ward the snow turned to rain and I must say the Aztek was the most secure feeling ride I've had in years.

We stopped near Pittsburgh . Next day we motored all the way to Savannah and rested. The Aztek delivered 23.9 highway which I was satisfied with considering we were in the mountains.

Once we hit the flats of Florida it edged up to 24.3 which is very good. No mishaps. During the trip we counted 37 'Teks. Got a stone chip on window shield.

Overall , the Aztek has delivered outstanding ride, great versatility (we flipped those seats every which way). Very satisfied with quiet ride, highway performance. I'll keep you posted.

By the way I'm at Vistana resorts.......Yellow Aztek in parking lot. Talked to guy driving it. Said it was best rental vehicle he has ever driven.

All the best. (Gonzo....never saw Gomer)

; ) .......your Aztek smile......miss me!!

drzoom1

Has anybody paid less then invoice for a 'Tek (not including factory to dealer or consumer incentives)? If so, how much below. Seems like with 4 month supply, new model year just around the corner, slow sales and a slowing economy, something would have to give.

dindak

barresa62 : Obviously you missed the point. Yes Toyota's have a whopping 40 less problems per 100 than Buicks but.. what are those problems? How are they distributed? All I'm saying is that the JD Power numbers don't tell the whole story.

kissfan : Glad you had a good Aztek vacation. What kind of mileage did you get on the highway?

drzoom1

Good hear Kissfan with some actual 'Tek information (sometimes I think I'm in the "bashGM" forum!) Your mileage sounds good. How many people are making the trip? Kids? Do you have anything attached to the roof?

You mention the quite ride, did you have sound-deadening undercoating applied when you bought your 'Tek?

Happy trials and safe drinving!

madwmn

For years I've owned mini vans, both GM and Ford (a real mistake--can you say lemon?) to transport the kids, their friends and sports equipment. I drive about 20K/year. My lease was up, my kids are now driving, and I was looking for something different. Test drove the Escape (small back seat, terrible interior design, only fair gas mileage, and not a great price, even with vendor discount), Explorer (nothing special in any way), Highlander (small back seat and not very comfortable), Blazer and Jimmy (lousy mileage, small back seat) and finally the Aztec. Is the exterior ugly? Some people think so, but personally it's growing on me. I find the PT Cruiser and Ford Focus pretty obnoxious myself, but I don't obsess about it. The Aztec has plenty of room, great extras, I'm getting 22 mpg city driving, and the price was certainly right. I've taken a lot of heat from my co-workers. One guy has nicknamed it the 'urban assault vehicle.' Personally, I kind of like that term.

I did a lot of research, waited three months to make a decision, and followed this board and others closely. It seems people here are spending a lot of time dancing around the actual topic of the board (it is the Aztec) and discussing foreign cars, classic cars, and everything else under the sun.

Bottom line--this vehicle is a lot of fun to drive. It has many creature comforts, and for someone who drives as many miles as I do, that's critical. I work in downtown Detroit and see many of them every day. On the day I took delivery, my dealer was delivering four Aztecs. If you don't like it, don't buy or lease one.

Has anyone out there owned an Aztec for > 6 months? If so, how is it performing? Any problems?

lakelanierbum

I must say when I first was looking for a new vehicle the Aztek was not my first choice. The looks alone drove me away from it. I test drove the Explorer, Jimmy, Rav4, and quite a few pick-ups. Now mind you, I was trading in my 1999 2500 Silverado loaded crew cab all the extras and hated every minute I drove the thing, just waiting for the next thing to break on it. As the dealer was pulling around another Jimmy for a test drive. Joking I told him to through me the keys for the Aztek sitting out front I thought what the heck at least I can say I drove one. I was hooked!
The room, ride,and all around fun I have in the vehicle has been outstanding, wherever I go there is always someone checking it out (love it or hate it) it is different and that is what makes it so special. Thank you Pontiac for breaking the box mold! And proving you don’t need to spend a bundle to have great fun with your vehicle.

jmatero

Hey Kissfan! Glad your trip was safe! Hey, do yourself a favor and get that chip sealed down there in Florida (any glass shop can do it)... Because of the temp extremes, that little "chip" could turn into a large crack when you get back to the cold here up north!!

Have fun!!

infinia1

the more i read here the more i want an aztek! i really wanted one back in september when i bought my alero but the price was just too hi! does anyone know if gm has lowered prices yet? i'm afraid the loss would be too great on the alero plus at the time azteks were about $5000 more. but i want one now! i like a car that not everyone has. last week i left wyoming for vacation to denver then went to salt lake and i didn't see 1 aztek the whole time! i like exclusivity (is that a word?). gm, take the price of an aztek gt down and i just may be in!

lbthedog

Bought one from the first shipment. Only mechanical problem is the rear hatch. Some times it releases fully, other times it doesn't. The fit of the carpeting on the passenger side could be better but have no other complaints. The six disk changer is the cat's azz. I knew going in that some people wouldn't like it but that's their problem, not mine.

stever

drew_ Mar 20, 2001 4:40pm

Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

sunny2001

drzoom, et al.....dealers in TX are openly advertising the vehicles well below invoice in the paper. Last Saturday, the Aztek that MSRP's for 23,035 (base model 1SB package) was being advertised for $18,895. I've been able to shave another $500 off and get the camping package, all via the i-net. According to Edmunds, dealer invoice on this model is $21,098

I've yet to bite, but its a buyers market anticipating the Rendezvous debut to create increasing pressure for dealers to move Azteks off their lots at even lower firesale prices. I drive by a Pontiac dealer every day on the way home from work and have seen the very same Azteks in their lot for 2 months now. Went there on Sunday to take a no pressure look and saw six being stored in an out-of-view fenced back lot. If I can get $6000 off the overpriced loaded model's MSRP, I'll be a happy 'camper".

The best is yet to come....bashers: keep bashing - we Aztrekkies awaiting purchase only stand to benefit.

gonzo7

If you like an Aztek and don't care about what others think- good for you!- You shouldn't worry about other people's opinions.

What gets me are the avant-garde style leaders who buy something that looks like the Aztek and then blow a gasket when they hear what others think of their vehicle.

If you like Azteks just waita while--Better deal will happen. When the redesigned ones approach in a few months and the Rendevous shows up they will be giving the current ones away.
Most of the ones my local dealer has arrived in July/2000. One salesman joked if I bought a new truck he'd throw in a free Aztek.

tonychrys

If what you say is true gonzo, I wonder what kind of beating the dealers are taking? Afterall, dealer holdback in most cases is only designed to allow the dealer to carry a car for 90(?) days. After that, the interest they are paying on the car starts to eat into their profits.

Maybe GM is kicking back additional monies to apologize for the fiasco? One wonders...