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1.Recalls are issued ALL THE TIME, even by your beloved Toyota, even by LEXUS...in the first year of production for the LS400 back in 1990. As someone said, its better to catch the problem sooner than later.
2.Wow, its not like vehicles have even been restyled only a year after their debut...oh wait, I'm forgetting about the 50s!
3.Toyota dealers are reknowned for not budging on prices and have a bad reputation for combining unwanted items in your invoice.
4.A friend of mine recently went from a '96 Avalon to a used '00 Regal LS.
5.EVERY SINGLE DOMESTIC MANUFACTURER selling cars in large numbers in the U.S. before 1970 has been loosing market share, including Ford and Chrysler. When you have more sharks in the water, there's less fish to go around.
6.GMs such as LeSabre, Malibu, Impala, DeVille, Regal, Intrigue and Silverado have been rated "Best Buys" by various agencies.
And it feels good to defend the Alamo. Who wouldn't like that, to be part of the history of America? I gotta so, Sam Houston is calling me...
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Well I was not even alive in the fifties.
However, The last 20 years of driving I cannot remember a worse flop than the Aztek..
Though if you were driving in the fifties, I can see why you are a GM fan.. Most people over 60 still prefer domestic to foreign...However, if the trend stays the same, GM's market share is litterally dying off...!!
Saw my second yellow Aztek today. Best color after black.
Many cars get nose/tail restyles early into their production. And yes, some even after only one year. Some T-birds in the '70s had new noses after a year because folks thought they looked to much like an LTD. One of the late 80's chrysler new yorkers got a new nose/tail after only one year because people thought they were ugly and too "square". Infiniti's original Q45 made it a year and a half before an emergency "grille add-on" procedure up front. The early 90's Cutlass 4-door made it one year before the tail/bumpers were done over because of an odd "curve-up" that didn't work with the rest of the shape. I also recall the Buick Riviera having to be re-styled after 12 months because folks wanted the "droped tail" look and thought the squared-off look was ugly. This isn't new... sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss. In the case of the Aztek, the problem isn't just "odd" styling but unbalanced styling with no consistency. That's why people are so put off by it.
Again, the 2002 Aztek is NOT being restyled (major) or redesigned. GM will use paint and wheel changes to create a "new look". That's a lot less drastic than what some other companies had to do.
Big flop? Try the Volkswagen Rabbit plant in Pennsylvania. Try looking at the sales of DCX's minivans. Roughly 70 to 80 thousand units below forecasts. Ten billion dollars gone in a year and a half. Try the warranty numbers on a Mercedes M-Class, somebody's got to be the worst. Guess who?
The Aztek isn't a bad vehicle. Takes some "adjustment" to enjoy the styling. But if everything was the same, the world would be a dull place. It gets a consistent 23 mpg around town, can't say many other vehicles with it's capacity can do that. The so called antique powertrain will run forever and on the odd chance it breaks, it costs pennies to fix. So a few attention starved critics want to complain. Too bad they have to fabricate the complaints. (What recall is popgun referring to in post #1995?, no recalls current on the Aztek, haven't been any at all)
I have complete confidence in my choice of vehicle for my family. (Old joke here) I took the scissors out of the glove box so it's plenty safe now. GM should have named it the "Kleenex" because it attracts so many criers. Until my neighbors and relatives become dependent upon Toyota, Nissan, or Volkswagen for employment I have no desire to purchase any of their products. The same goes for other products besides automobiles. Not going to say that I get the best performance across the board, but I don't have starving neighbors either. But I don't think I am getting the worst product either. I will say that if GM did a better job of advertising the Aztek it would sell. The marketing is horrendous. They already know who IS buying but they refuse to shift the focus. I don't understand that. So the twenty something group doesn't like it. The group that is buying, thirty something to forty something with a kid or two, the ads aren't pointed at them at all. There are no station wagons in the GM lineup. Or Fords (except for Focus) or DCx's. Just minivans and sport utes. Well the minis are too big and clunky and the sport utes have no handling and are inefficient. The Aztek is the perfect size for me. And just to crank up some of the doom and gloomers, it's got a personality. That's the part they don't like. Now all it needs is some creative marketing.
Mother of two kids drives up and sees her 10year old being picked on by some bullies....
She zooms up to the kids in her black Aztek to the curb with "Kiss Playing loudly in the background"..
The Bullies turn to see were that awfull music is coming from..They see the Aztek coming at them, then flee in horror as this black demon with a pig nose is gunning for them...!
Narrator comes on and say's "when you need something to scare away the nasty things in life ..the Aztek could be the car for you..!!
Aztek one AWESOME vehicle.
I always thought customer satisfaction was key to a vehicles rating.
Also as far as first year vehicles go this one has been trouble free. Try reading the Ford Escape and Mazda Tribute postings, and read about the recalls, the fuel smells, engine noise, rattles etc. I've seen none of that from Aztek owners.
So how about driving one and developing an informed opinion instead of simply bashing a vehicle because it doesn't fit your preconceived idea of what a vehicle should look like.
I've been to the Escape/Tribute postings and read many of the complaints about what you mentioned above inclulding one that has people complaining about rust already appearing on the exhaust and bolts underneath their trucks.
I'm not exactly sure when the Aztek came out last year, but it's got to be close to a year now, and still no recalls. That has to say something for the quality of the Aztek.
Besides, if the Aztek was really bad, don't you think that the owners would be the first to mention it? I know that if my Bonneville (or my previous Regal) had bad mechanical problems, quality, or whatever, I'd be the first to say, "Hey, steer clear of this rolling piece of junk!"
I highly value their "opinions". Some of our friends dispise GM and many of their comments are formulated from this pre-disposition. It is a free world and all are allowed their opinion and I think they are good people who are great fun.
Rarely will you see a positive post from our good friends. Why.......Because they do not live with the vehicle. They see the styling and repeatedly harp on the same stale issues. Non owners can only REHASH the stale old issues and sit back and poke at US owners trying to irritate us like bullies in a school yard.........who cares.
But the facts are indisputable:
1. No recalls......remarkably solid built vehicle. I would go on a limb and say the best built in GM's stable.
2. Owners are remarkably satisfied.......From the Yahoo owners groups. To the opinions issued back to GM. (My sales guy shares them with me.....because he knows my interest) Their is a community of owners that are so satisfied that they go out of their way to tell others.
You know how it is when you use a great product.....you tell others.
3. Compared to others at the lower end (Tribute/Escape) and even the higher end (the remarkable x5).......are riddled with troubles recalls and consumer complaints.
4. Did GM mess up marketing......My god YES they did. Bringing the product to market with RED and Black only is something so foolish........that only Communist Russia could imitate.
No cool colours.....no 4WD. While buying my Sentra......I took out the Xterra very difficult seating position.....rough ride....but good marketing thus good sales.
Take a lesson GM.
Ultimately.......the OWNERS of the AZTEK are the people who truly know the vehicle. They live with it.....They often love it. Sales are picking up and will continue (by the way Great Article In National Post........ "AZTEK WORTH THE VEHICLE LOAN")
They refernce a buzz slowly building around the vehicle.....and a growing swell of interest.
Good news for a great vehicle!!
Did a nice little piece in the Toronto Star today on the Rendezvous. Should be at dealerships in 2 weeks. Can't wait!
Now GM bashing is something else.
Toyota makes good (GREAT) vehicles all around. GM makes good vehicles all around, with occasional great ones mixed in. Quality, these days, can connote many definitions. I prefer reliability measure.
Now when it comes to R-E-L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y, domestics in general, are a little gray-bearded (read: less) relative to the imports (excluding the KIA's, Daewoo's, Suzuki's, Yugo's, etc.. of this world, in this category). GM, the undisputed leader of the domestic pack, has simply being awful these past few years, with one bad release after another. The recent recall of the MY2002 mid-sized SUV's - Envoy, TrailBlazer and Bravada- leaves much to be desired of the General. I mean, call it whatever you like, it is a disaster any way you look at it. So if one were to harp on this disaster, would this be GM-bashing ? Nope. reality it is !
So 'Tek owners take heart... You do have a reliable vehicle, so far...
Dindak has been pretty hard on topgn and gonzo7. Both topgn, gonzo7 and jmatero all make this forum much fun to read. That they "bash" the 'Tek is, I suspect, a way to needle many of the owners and wannabe-owners. Nothing too much in that. This is done everyday.... If you cannot have fun, you should go stick your head somewhere else... :-) So let Topgn and dindak and jamtero and gonzo7 and kissfan and lbthedog and others have their fun and continue to enrich this forum with their opinions... All opinions should be welcome !
just my .02 cents worth...
all the best.......
I am sure it has a few techinical bullitens, however I do not believe people are really cross shopping the X/5 and the Aztek..
One more Point: The BMW was tested at IIHS unlike the Aztek, which to date has not been tested. Although the Montanta Minivan (sister platform) has and came in DEAD last..
But what did IIHS say about the BMW X/5
"one of the safest vehicles we have EVER tested "
Regardless of SUV, Minivan, or sedan...!!
SO I tell you what, I will put my family in the BMW anytime, and I guess the fact the Latches do not work, or the navigations system is crap, or the windshield wipers do not work all the time......the simple FACT is, they most likey will survive a car accident, while in a Aztek it would be questionable..
Give up the BMW comparison, I will bet $$$$ VERY few people are cross shoping the BMW and the Aztek Minivan....peace..!!
lIVE LONG AND BUY BMW...
I am glad a few people have the class to appreciate my opinion of the "PUMBA THE TALKING PIG ..AZTEK.. remember Edmunds said this not me....!
It strikes me that the major quality issues involve the M-Class and the X5, both made stateside. Just a bit thought-provoking.
Does a loaded model EVER exist in a dealer's lot with the towing package in it or are they always special order? Is a towing package really needed if one is only going to occasionally tow something lightweight?
Does the tent set up easily, like within 5 minutes?
What separate controls do passengers have in the back seat re the stereo and air? Do they need headphones to listen to something different?
Louis
Fact:
3 Recalls ... 2 Affecting STEERING....Please read:
Vehicle Description: Passenger vehicles. During assembly of these vehicles, the lower end of the spindle may not have been inserted completely into the
coupling. In such a case, the fastening bolt used to secure the connection may not completely engage the spindle within the coupling. During driving, it would be possible for the spindle to disconnect.
This could result in a loss of steering capability and increasing the risk of a crash.
This vehicle has another serious steering recall.......And a child restraint system recall.
I ASK YOU THIS..........IF THE AZTEK HAD THESE TYPE OF RECALLS..........WHAT WOULD YOU SAY........HOW WOULD YOU AND EVERY NAYSAYER TRASH THE AZTEK IF IT HAD SUCH SERIOUS ISSUES........I can tell you Topgun you would destroy the AZTEK if it had a child restraint problem......or could carreen into a wall like the X.5 (IIHS tests not witstanding.)
Now how does this relate to the AZTEK...... well 1/2 the price and a perfect vehicle. No recalls! No page on EDMUNDS dedicated to problems associated with the AZTEK......Edmunds changed the name......Why we do not know.
So that is the only reason why I mention the vehicle.
I do not do it to inflame or upset. If I spent $70K cdn....I would be livid.
AZTEK is AWESOME!!
As for the Envoy recall, it's bad. It is however, now worse than what has happened to Ford and the 2002 Explorers. At least GM is big enough to recall rather than let people get injured. Companies like Honda, Ford and BMW have lots of problems but will never admit to it until they have to.
I think the Envoy recall can really hurt GM at a time when they can't afford it. It's all about PERCEPTION. Here they come out with a trio of really good looking and desireable vehicles, and then issue a press release that says "Do Not Drive Them, contact your dealer and have him tow the vehicle". This could really kill sales at a critical time.
Sure other vehicles have problems and their share of recalls, but I understand Ford is holding back on the Explorer to make sure everything is right so that they don't get into this exact situation. They are trying very hard to alter the public's PERCEPTION of the vehicle after the Firestone fiasco.
PS- are you still gung ho on the Rendezvous? If so, you are a braver man than I (meant as a compliment). I usually stick to the never buy a vehicle in its first or last year of production rule of thumb. This recall has enforced that belief for me.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
You are right, SUV recall is not good but I'm happy GM recalled quickly rather than have people possibly get hurt.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I haven't checked out whether readers can access the Post article (web site is www.nationalpost.com), but read for yourself how Kissfan provides only one angle of the review. TRULY MISLEADING, KISSFAN.
As one person commented on the vehicle in the article.....it's so ugly, it's cool.
A colleague of mine mentioned the same thing to me - how he can't believe how many he's starting to see on the road.
As for the comment "it's so ugly, it's cool" - I'll take that as a compliment. After 12 years of different minivans, I was sick and tired of driving something you saw driving at you umpteen times a day. Different was a big part of my attraction to the Aztek.
Mark
For a company its size, its car inventory is poor. So, hire new car designers, stick the DOHC engines in, offer MANUALS, and get the quality up. Eventually thay recover some of their market share. My $0.02
A lot of posters in this forum seem to take the QUESTIONABLE SAFETY CHARACTERISTICS..of the Aztek...like a Ostrich who sticks his head in the sand, so as not to see the tiger about to attack him....!!
Hell, Honda had a situation where 2 generations (8 years worth) of Accords had to be recalled because the gas-filler tube (runs from the filler cap to the tank) would rust and fail. Despite that, when the next generation came out, it was recalled for the same thing. Ford just went through the same thing with the Escapes... recalls during the launch of an all-new vehicle. That's why the 2002 Explorer is 6 months late to market. They were terrified it would have some kind of recall that would sink it. If the GM SUV problem turns out to be a design defect, the only explanation would be they rushed the vehicle to market so as not to be "outdone" by the 2002 Explorer.
Now, the Ford Escape recall situation is different than the GM SUV recall. With the Escape/Tribute, there have been 6 official recalls... but 5 of them took place before ANY of the vehicles were delivered. In fact, most were repaired by Ford before they left the factory parking lot so no owners were inconvenienced. Only the final recall involving a defective Wiper part involved some owners having to return their vehicles so as far as Escape owners are concerned, there was only 1 recall. That's why sales haven't been effected. In the case of the new GM SUV's every one on the road is supposed to be flat-bedded back to the dealership... they're telling owners not to drive them back... that will scare future buyers a little more than a defective wiper part and will probably cause a sales "hit". That's too bad because from everything I've read, they were supposed to "put GM back on the map".
I'm anxious to see what happens with the '02 model...any spy shots to anyones knowledge?
I'd like to see it succeed, it just needs a little surgery to its exterior and it will sell...I think the Rendezvous is going to be a big success with the ladies. Very cool dashboard in it!
If you think about it, GM did it right by introducing the Aztek first. They knew the styling would be at the bleeding edge, so its like "You don't like the Aztek, so you'll probably like this."
Let us hope, for GM's sake, (and maybe for the sake of the domestics in the red-hot SUV market) that the Buick version makes it in both popularity and sales, and its intended market target. If this should flop, combined with the Envoy/T Blaizer/Bravada fiasco, in a time of declining economy, the General may have a lot of explaining to do their share-holders (I am one)...
I sure am hoping that they make it :-) (fingers and legs crossed....
As for BMW and Toyota and recalls... yes, every car company voluntarily (or in some cases... Chrysler is notorious for this...involuntarily) recalls vehicles. Even BMW. Hell, they're currently recalling every car they build because the machine used to mount the tires on the wheels damaged the tire sidewalls. It happens. What I DON'T like is when a company has a problem/defect that is clearly a safety issue and they have to be forced by the Gov't to recall the cars. Prime example is Chrysler with the old minivan rear hatch latches failing. Or GM with the "side-saddle" gas tanks on their old pickups.
I, too, hope the Rendezvous will make it. From my observations, everyone (reviewers/owners) loves the Aztek as a vehicle, they just can't get over the styling. Buick's version should remedy that.
One other thing. The upcoming Saturn VUE will be marketed towards young people (pricing-wise) while the Rendezvous goes toward middle-class customers. I hope there are enough daring individualists with decent finances out there to keep the Aztek alive!
Hey look bashers, even Ford knows what the world is coming to.
Here's the link: http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories/ford409.htm
Since these boards allow speculation, this sounds just like the Aztek all over again.
http://www.stlct.com/Press/VUE.html
Nowhere in that article did it say "Aztek like vehicle".
"Since these boards allow speculation, this sounds just like the Aztek all over again. "
Hmm, again since the Aztek was never mentioned in the article, I don't see the correlation. Oh, maybe we skipped over the fact that the Ford Taurus is one of the best selling cars of all time. So maybe Ford will get it right with this vehicle? They sure have a sales hit with the Escape.
Details about the new vehicle are scant, but the following picture emerges from sources familiar with the project: It is expected to ride on a front-wheel-drive platform with all-wheel-drive variants available. It is not clear if the unit will seat seven, a configuration that could encroach on the seven-passenger Ford Explorer. The unit will feature carlike unibody construction rather than a trucklike body-on-frame."
You complain about the Aztek but seem to know nothing about it. Second paragraph is a good description.