Neither am I a fan of Small vehicles but I wanted fuel economy and a fun vehicle. It is a good complement to the Aztek.
About the AZTEK........They are flying out of the dealership near my place. I talk to my sales guy all the time as I getting in his hockey playoff pool.
He sold 2 on Saturday.......a buzz is starting about the vehicle. Very cool.
From Brian in Halifax. He has been following our little discussion group and filtered through the good and misleading info posted here.
After doing the research he decided to pick up an AZTEK...... Congrats Brian!! Thanks for the email and all the best with the vehicle.
Even the naysayers......who try so hard to influence......cannot hide the fact that the AZTEK is a quality vehicle that delivers solid performnce in a FLEXIBLE FUN PACKAGE!!
No he did not win it at Timmy's . As far as the atmoshere in here. I can tell you that some posts that get through would never be allowed on some the other boards. (ie: x5....Did BMW pay you to change the name from X5 Problems to BMW x.5 III.........lol....protecting their brand)
But Steve......you are not all bad. I purchased the Sentra based on your recommendation and I think I've made a better decision.
Quit trying to censor the world. You like your vehicle, and many people like your spunk. However, neither you nor I own the web site, so just post your message, and if you feel jmatero or anybody else is being deceptive, I am confident you will rebut them. I think jmatero is a straightshooter. However, it is evident that many buyers of vehicles, including Aztek, buy it for reasons unrelated to the safety issue (for better or worse). Fine, so be it.
Now gonzo on the otherhand is a scream, and should be applauded for bringing people to the site.
Hope you like the Sentra, but really, I warn you against using Armorall (?) on the dash. Look at the way it curves and direct the car to a low-lying sun -- it will be very very difficult to see from the driver's position. Other than that, a really solid little car.
Well the Aztek surpassed 3000 units in March.. It just proves the theory if you continue cutting the price of a commodity, it will sell..!! No matter how unsafe the Aztek is or how terrible the resale is, people will buy it because it will be priced way below the competition >>>Honda CRV, Toyota, Hyundai Santa Fe, and other MINIVANS..!
Hey this sounds like typical GM marketing.. Beat the competition not with quality, but with price point...!!!
If you're considering the Aztek but are frightened off by the 3 star side impact rating, please be aware that many of the best selling vehicles in North America today have this rating or worse.
Other '01 vehicles with 3 star (or less) rear side impact ratings: Chev Prizm Ford Escort Saturn SL Toyota Corolla Chev Cavalier Dodge Neon Ford Focus * Mazda 626 Pontiac Sunfire Volkswagen Beetle Buick Century Chev. Lumina Chrysler Concorde Daewoo Leganza Ford Mustang Ford Taurus * Mazda Millenia Mercury Cougar Mercury Sable Nissan Altima Oldsmobile Alero Oldsmobile Intrigue Pontiac Grand Am Pontiac Grand Prix Toyota Camry * Chrysler LHS
Note: * denotes a vehicle on the list of top 10 best sellers in the US in 2000.
Just to balance the safety information presented by others...
Since I'm still a thousand plus miles or so from the nearest Krispy Kreme, I think I'm gonna outlaw any reference to that place. Tim Horton's is ok I guess, but there's nothing like a warm K.K. donut coming down the conveyor belt into my mouth.
Meanwhile U.S. manufacturers are into their biggest slump in a decade. Dunk that in your coffee while you're hunting for a "below invoice" Aztek. Steve Host Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Steve, please understand, the only reason I go to Krispy Kreme is so my two year old son can watch the "factory". I'm hoping he will either become a mechanical engineer or, one day work at KK and bring home free donuts. I also like to poll the trend-setting 16 year old staff concerning the state of the automotive industry.
Closest KK is near Buffalo NY. I have heard that people drive there for donuts. I'm am doubtful these things are worth an hour drive. KK comes to Toronto area next year.
And to balance THAT, here is a list of 2001 SUV's and Mini vans with 3 star (or less) rear side impact ratings:
2001 Pontiac Aztec
I seriously doubt the average buyer of an Aztec cross-shops ANY of the cars you listed above... and for that matter, ANY car. They cross-shop suv's and mini vans.
Not to be confrontational, but lets look at it this way...
You're child decides to become a law-enforcement officer and you're shopping together for bullet-proof vests. 35 models currently on the market have been tested.
As a concerned parent, you do some research and learn that of the 35 tested:
MOST have 5% chance of a bullet causing serious injury
SOME have 6%-10% chance of serious injury
ONLY ONE has an 11-15% chance of serious injury
Now, your kid likes the styling of that "ONE" with 11-15% chance... he also likes the way it feels.
But, after reading that the one he really likes is the lowest rated of the bunch, he gets "scared" and asks for your advice. So, as a parent, which model do YOU advise he purchase? Should he get the one he LIKES or the one that offers the most protection for his money?
Listing the results of some popular cars is the same as saying to your kid "Well son, I wouldn't worry about that vest you like getting the lowest rating... look, these helmets over here have the same rating" The point being, sure, other items have the same protection and are popular But HE's shopping for a VEST... not a HELMET.
Of course there are some cars that have 3-star rear side impact ratings. And this IS relevant if you are considering an Aztec vs. one of those cars. But, EVERY Aztek owner posting here cross-shopped SUV's mainly... others cross-shopped minivans. To suggest that people shopping for an Aztek shouldn't be "scared" about the 3-star rating because a Taurus and a Camry got 3-stars serves no purpose.
All of the "big three" admit that utility isn't even the main reason most choose SUV's over cars... Buyers - particularly women -are buying SUV's because of the perception that they are SAFER than cars. They truly believe that riding higher than a car affords them and their passengers additional safety. When discussing rear-side impact protection, they are correct... ALL 2001 SUV's (except the Aztek and Forester) received 5-stars.
The following 2001 SUV's received 5-star rear side-impact ratings:
Chevy Blazer Chevy Tracker Ford Escape Ford Explorer GMC Jimmy Honda CR-V Honda Passport Infiniti QX4 Isuzu Rodeo Jeep Cherokee Jeep Grand Cherokee Lexus RX 300 Mazda Tribute Mercury Mountaineer Nissan Pathfinder Nissan Xterra Olds Bravada Suzuki Vitara Toyota 4-Runner
The Subaru Forester got 4-stars The Pontiac Aztek got 3-stars
These are ALL of the 2001 SUV's tested to date. You can form your own opinion.
I NEVER claimed the Aztek is Unsafe.... I simply pointed out that it is not AS SAFE as other cross-shopped vehicles. YOU are the one spreading "untruths" here... putting words in our mouths and suggesting we're spreading "lies".
Enough of the [non-permissible content removed]-for-tat... If you're thinking of buying an aztek, go to http://www.nhtsa.gov and compare the aztek to every other SUV in the 2001 model list and form your OWN opinion.
I think you have beat this thing to a pulp. Yes the Aztek could be safer. Yes that should be considered when buying. Yes there are better vehicles out there.
Safety isn't all in the crash test ratings and there is no definitive authority on the subject of which vehicle is intrinsically safer than another.
Dindak: your latest post summed it up nicely.
Jmatero: The readers on this forum have heard your message ad nauseum and I think we're suggesting that your your safety awareness campaign would best be taken where it would have the greatest impact - say, to the Taurus or Camry boards where I am sure hundreds of irresponsible parents lurk awaiting for your inspired guidance.
I go on with this is because folks like lbthedog insist on posting things like "there are worse vehicles out there"... and all I'm saying is this... fine... please list for us the Minivans and SUV's that are worse than the Aztek.
You're right, this has been going on too long and I'll shut up now. Man, it's hard not to respond to posts that are written to mislead people though.
Your point is well taken. Still, there likely is cross-shopping between the Aztek and some other non-SUV's - as counter-intuitive as that sounds. At the end of the day, it must be acknowledged that the Aztek's NHTSA scores are puzzlingly low in rear side impact.
You know, we're having a hard time working up indifference on this very subject in the "Vehicle Safety" topic in "News & Views" and yet here....
.....used cars from private parties in the past (I despise dealers & their antics) - nevertheless, I am pondering a new Aztek for a bargain basement price - Did the $1000 factory rebate expire yesterday? If so, is there a better one replacing it? Now the naive question - how does one factor a rebate into negotiating a price? For example, if dealer invoice is $20,000 and there's a $1000 rebate, do I start from 19, not 20 because the dealer is made whole by the manufacturer?
In just a matter of days...when I last glanced the discussion was going on about French Canadians liking the Aztec. You realize that the women that was the chief designer for it was French and had worked for Renault?
"General Motors designers are being challenged to rein in flights of fancy and focus on the critical elements of their projects ``I am rigorous, and that is not what designers like,'' says Anne Asensio, the 37-year-old design executive hired from Renault SA in May 2000. She was handed the key job of ensuring that each GM brand develops and maintains a distinct image."
She was just hired in May and had no chance to get her hands on the Aztek! Nice try jkidd2.
I talked to a GM rep on-line yesterday and she told me the $1,000 rebate has been extended until, I believe, July 2. Production ends on April 6 (this Friday). If you can wait, better deals will be abundant after July 2 when the dealers need to make way for the 2002s. Only downside of waiting is you will likely not get the exact options/color combination you are looking for.
As far as negotiations go, if the dealer invoice is $20,000 offer $19,000. I do not know for a fact, but I'm guessing the $500 dealer rebate was also extended. Overall, I suggest you do not start your negotiations at $18,500, but end your negotiations at $18,500. You should not have too much of a problem finding a dealer to bite on selling a 'Tek within $100 of invoice, less any incentives.
I live in the great midwest and will be purchasing a 'Tek as soon as we sell our second car, a '94 Sunbird that has turned out to be a low cost vehicle to operate over the 7 years we have owned it (albeit a cheaply built car). I have found several dealer's willing to sell an Aztek at $100 over invoice.
Quote from the article regarding Jerry Flint's speech to GM:
"Design. What do you want me to say? GM invented car design. Harley Earle. Bill Mitchell. I knew some of these people. Now, you have the Aztek. For god's sake, why couldn't they hire somebody? Ford did. Chrysler did. Mercedes and BMW did. They all do (not the Japanese, their designers really are Japanese.) Now, GM did hire someone from the outside, a French woman from Renault. Now, I like French women, and I wish her well. I am sure she is talented. But please explain to me who buys French Renaults besides the French and a few Spaniards. Who? Nobody. Why can't GM find an American who understands the American culture and who can create a PT Cruiser or a Thunderbird? Why do they hire a foreigner?"
I assumed he was talking about the designer of the Aztek.
jmatero says, "But I'll steer-clear because my KIDS ride in the back seat and there are MANY other choices that offer MUCH better rear-side impact protection. So FOR ME... read carefully...not EVERYONE...but FOR ME... I won't take the chance." Well, the car he drives his kids around in is somewhere between 1% to 14% safer in rear side impact crashes than the Aztek according to the NHTSA. If you look at the low end(1%), his car isn't much safer at all than the Aztek. Maybe, he should look for a much safer car than that. I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to bash jmatero in any way. In fact, some of the comments he makes are good ones. It's just the way he goes about it. I just had to put my 2 cents in.
In the Northeast Region the Aztek Consumer Cash Rebate went up to $1,500 for the April 3rd to October 1st time frame. The Dealer Cash of $500 ended on April 2nd. The Free Camping Package is scheduled to end April 30th. Orders for the April 10th date are scheduled for production the week of April 30th. there are no restricted options. As of March 28th, Pontiac announced that 2001 Aztek production would extend through mid-November 2001. This is to give more time for Pontiac to implement minor exterior enhancements. Another overlooked way to lower an Aztek (or any GM) purchase is the GM Card. Up to $1,500 in earnings can be applied to an Aztek purchase or lease.
Last April, I was in the market for a Mid-sized wagon and had $22,000 to spend. I bought the safest one on the market I could afford. That's the VW Passat Wagon. That's the point I was making in regards to the Aztek. I was shopping for a Mid-sized wagon and I compared them all on NHTSA and IIHS and the ONLY wagons that came close were the Ford Taurus (3-stars), Mercury Sable (3-stars), Saturn L-series (2-star driver side) Volvo v70 (5-stars, but WAY out of my price range) and the Subaru Legacy Wagon (5-stars, and again, too expensive... by 5-grand+). That left the VW Passat and that's what I purchased.
The point being, if you're in the market for an Aztek, there are other SUVs and Minivans that are the SAME price or LESS expensive that offer GREATER rear passenger protection.
And yes, 1% isn't much more than the Aztek, but 14% is and when it comes to my kids, I'll take that 1% anyday.
Safety pales in comparison to having a car your kid's friends think is cool.
Sure, you might survive an accident in your boring ol' car but an Aztek owner can unfurl their tent and enjoy a fresh, cold soda-pop from the cooler while waiting for the ambulance.
There are no standards besides "stars" given. Does anybody know what a "star" equals? Does it mean "you did your homework"? What does it compare to? Let's do a little bit of simple physics. Mass in motion equals energy. More mass is more energy than less mass. Big car hitting small car equals more mass. Big wins. Now I don't care what ten star rated small car you have when a three star big car hits you, you loose. The Aztek is a four thousand pound vehicle. While that mass works against it in a barrier test, it works for it in a vehicle to vehicle test.
I've had enough of this silly arguement. You can't convince me and many others that the Aztek is flawed mechanically. And I have no intention to praise or insult your vehicle. I will say that I have zero confidence in the NHTSA ratings because I have absolutely no idea how they assign them. Stars? Why not Moons? Or Flowers or something. The EPA has figured out that GM, Ford and the rest are better at testing for emissions than they are. Why not NHTSA? NHTSA doesn't really have a great track record. Any agency that has Joan Claybrook as alumni is not an agency that I can believe in. If you choose to make your choices because of a government rating, more power to you. But don't tell others to think the same way as you.
Look, you're obviously living in a "denial bubble" sir.
The government tossed a 3,000+lb object at car bumper height into the side of a Pontiac Aztek last month. The back-seat passengers had an 11-20% chance of serious injury.
The government tossed the same 3,000+lb object at car bumper height into the sides of 34 other 2001 minivans and SUVs. The back-seat passengers in the majority of those vehicles had a 5% Chance or less of getting a serious injury.
Apparently, you haven't even GONE to the site and read about the Aztek because if you did, you wouldn't be asking silly questions like "Does anybody know what a "star" equals? Does it mean you did your homework? What does it compare to?"
And yes, it is clearly stated what the side impact stars mean... from the NHTSA.gov site:
UNDERSTANDING THE STAR RATING FOR SIDE IMPACT CRASH TESTS
Why Are We Using the Star Ratings?
In response to Congress' request to provide consumers with easily understandable vehicle safety performance information, the National Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) developed the 'star' scoring system for the frontal crash test. The results are reported in a range of one to five stars. This star rating methodology has been extended to the lateral impact.
How Do I Interpret the Different Levels of Protection for Side Impact Crash Tests?
Drivers and passengers in the side crash rating receive a one to five star rating, with five stars indicating the best performance. The side crash star ratings are assigned based in the chance of a life threatening chest injury for the driver, the front seat passenger, and the rear seat passengers. Head injury is not measured in the side crashes. For every vehicle in a severe side crash there are two vehicles in severe frontal crashes.
What Do the Stars Mean? 5 stars = 5% or less than chance of serious injury 4 stars = 6% to 10% chance of serious injury 3 stars = 11% to 20% chance of serious injury 2 stars = 21% to 25% chance of serious injury 1 star = 26% or greater chance of serious injury
A serious injury is considered to be one requiring immediate hospitalization and may be life threatening.
Side Crash Test Procedures.
The test configuration represents an intersection type collision with a 3015 pound deformable barrier moving at 38.5 mph into the stationary struck vehicle. In the stationary vehicle, instrumented dummies in the driver and rear seat passenger seats register forces during the crash. These measures form the basis for the "Star Ratings" chart.
Oh, and LBtheDOG... I've NEVER told others to think the same way I do. Those are your words not mine. I've repeatedly asked that people research the vehicle they're looking to buy and make their own educated decision.
You don't want to believe in crash tests? Fine. Good luck to you. That's your choice and I respect it. But stop spreading lies by suggesting I'm "telling others to think the same way" as me.
As for your "mass" argument, it has merrit, but the fact remains that if an Aztek broad-sides you in another Aztek, you're much more likely to be injured as a back-seat passenger than in any other 20001 SUV and Minivan.
In fact, you'd be safer riding in the back seat of a Honda Civic being hit by that same Aztek.
Facts sir... you don't like it? Write Pontiac. They're the ones who built the thing. I'd be a little ashamed if I owned one and heard a Honda Civic had a safer back-seat... particulary after spending $25,000 for a 4,000lb vehicle. You don't like the facts, don't read that post.
Look, you've tried very hard to scare people out of the Aztek. Hasn't worked. I promise to wear a helmet if it makes you happy. And no you aren't "safer" in the back seat of a Civic. I posted the link to a site that presents real world data, you chose to ignore it. I've had a great time cranking you up. No reason to stop now.
Try it, but it may disappoint you, no stars, just real world data. And what a shock, the Aztek gets a Excellent, Acceptable and Excellent rating! Real world data! If no data available, they don't make it up.
Has anyone that purchased or leased an Aztek received an incentive from GM that if a friend of thiers purchases or leases an Aztek by April 30th, GM will send them $200 worth of American Express Gift Checks? All you have to do is fill out the form they send you and include the person's name, address, city, state, and zip along with the VIN from the new Aztek. I received it in the mail a few days ago.
Ibthedog... I don't think Jmatero is wrong...and he didn't say mass didn't make a difference, you are only reading what you want to hear. I don't want to get all involved here in that particular debate, but, crash test results are important to me as with other information that I read. I don't always believe every single word the government says, but I digest it and come to my own conclusions. Sometimes the government can be right. (they are human too)
Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
...gets at least one more long posting. About 2 weeks ago, there was a tragic local 2 vehicle collision between a new Civic & an unspecified minivan (looked like a Montana but I couldn't be sure). From the damage sustained by the Civic, it also appeared that Civic took the brunt of the impact on the driver's side of the vehicle. Mass made a huge difference - obviously. They had to cut the Civic driver out of his car (he unfortunately didn't end up surviving). That little Civic was a mess - I wouldn't have wanted to have been in the back seat or front seat of that thing. I cannot speak for the minivan because the media photos did not show much more than glances and it would be irresponsible for me to speculate why the van driver walked away with no reported injuries.
The point is that, in the real world, if a smaller car gets T-boned by a larger one, the NHTSA's lab tests become rather academic. I know full well that NHTSA's side impact test is the only one which can be compared across vehicle sizes but it is an only an indicator of crash performance not the ultimate arbiter of vehicle safety.
I saw a report (on Canadian TV?) about 2 years or so ago that confirmed something I had long suspected. The primary focus of the story was that the advent of SUV's was changing a dynamic: bumper height was becoming less standard and mass was increasing. This was coupled with increasing speed limits (in some jurisdictions) and increasingly aggressive driving habits (such as red lights being ignored). The result? more side impacts involving greater mass at greater impact speed. As a sidebar, the show looked into side impact crash tests and reported that these test results can change by moving the sled's impact point by just an inch or two vertically or horizontally and can change dramatically as the angle of the impact moves from blunt to acute.
The fact that the NHTSA does not move the impact point around and average the results is naturally related to the fact that they'd have to buy multiple copies of the same vehicle but it would obviously be a stronger link to real world crash performance. According to that story, some cars might do better if the NHTSA did that while others would likely do worse.
So, as it stands, we're left looking at the NHTSA's stars as just an indicator. That being said, these tests should not be dismissed but neither should they be held up as an ultimate and unassailable indication of any vehicle's safety. It is therefore not irresponsible to tell an Aztek owner that their vehicle received a 3 star rating - it is far more so to tell one that your kids are safer in the back seat of your car than theirs are in their vehicles by virtue of the results of a test which many consider to be imperfect.
Like many others, I will stick by the NHTSA's test results as an indicator of safety and will continue to take it very seriously when I buy. But I will not make the leap to real world safety from the results of tests which do not do enough to account for the myriad of crash dynamics that can exist in the real world. Until they come up with a more unassailable safety rating, we can only point at the test results, we cannot make unequivocal statements or claims about the safety of our passengers.
As I said in an earlier posting, I think by now, most readers of this thread are aware of the Aztek's weakest crash result - its 3 star rear side impact rating. That is the only part of any argument I have seen that is irrefutable. Let's drop the other stuff as neither side has real world data to support its arguments that vehicle "A" isn't safe and vehicle "P" is.
Look LB... I went to that link and it says the frontal tests are Excellent and the Side impact are Acceptable (and they link to the NHTSA.gov anyway...)
What's your point? YOU're misleading AGAIN. Cut it out. "Acceptable" for side impact... not "excellent" like you posted. If you won't post accurate data, don't post at all.
The new GMC Envoy, Trailblazer, and Bravada are being recalled.. In fact the notice going out is for all owners to bring them back as soon as possible..or they could lose steering capability...!!!
GM the hits just keep on coming..!!
Between safety recalls and depreciation on the 2001 Aztek ( I think the Aztek will set a new world record for depreciation in it's first year) GM just keeps on making mistakes...!!!
Look, it's an ALL NEW Vehicle... from the GROUND UP... at least they caught it before anyone got hurt.
I really want these vehicles to succeed... from all accounts they are very promising designs and GM really needs a sales success ASAP. I actually like the GMC Envoy from what I've seen. But, since it's a new model, I'd personally wait a year while they work the bugs out. I bet the 2004's will be incredible! Cut them some slack here... they're handling this MUCH better than Ford did with the Explorer. Also, they're still investigating whether it is a design flaw or a manufacturing defect. Maybe the supplier cranked out a group of "bad" ones. I mean, the problem was discovered by Dealers testing the cars themselves on-road prior to sale. I'm sure GM tested these vehicles Off-road under extreme conditions and if they didn't have this problem, it's most likely a manufacturing defect.
I feel bad for the folks who just picked their's up though. Picking up your new car is one of life's "little pleasures" and this kinda throws a wrench into the works. At least they get rental cars. Let's hold off on the ridicule until we hear the final outcome. If it's a manufacturing defect, it was really out of their control. If it's a design flaw, they do deserve "a spanking".
You always emphasize the FACTS - which in this case are for people to NOT drive the vehicles. Wait for the tow truck. You trying to kill off all the "GM lovers" ? LOL
SO got an Aztek as a loaner. Had a chance to sit in it and drive it a bit. I agree with most of the critics about this vehicle. Very bizarre styling,also tons of blind spots especially when trying to see out of the goofy rear window. Mechanically it seemed ok, had some pick up but the engine did rev hard. This vehicle didn't even have AWD yet it stickered at over $28K, way overpriced in my opinion. Maybe the underpinnings are good and will be better used in the Rendezvous and wherever else they plan to use it but my verdict is thumbs down.
She asked the dealer if they were selling any and he said no. I think they give it out as a loaner to try and drum up some interest, isn't working.
GM does a much better job of bashing itself than I do...!!
Example:
1. GM has lost market share every year since 1970.
2. According to Consumer Reports , GM makes the least reliable vehicles...compared to Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, and even Nissan.
3 They came out with the Aztek and did not even come close to their sales goals..In Fact they are redesigning the vehicle in it SECOND year of production. Also the Aztek is being sold at below invoice only 10 months into production..Unlike the Toyota Sequoia that is more expensive and is STILL being sold close to MSRP..
4. Safety...bottom line the Aztek has the same platform as the Montana Minivan..which was rated "POOR" in the IIHS offset crash test.
5. FOR THE FIRST TIME IN AUTOMOTIVE HISTORY.. Cadillac came in third , in the Luxury Category behind Lexus #1 and Mercedes #2..in the year 2000(wow Lexus has only been around since 1990)....... Also according to Auto.com Cadillac (GM's Luxury Flagship) is 33% behind last years sales.
6. 2002 Envoy, Bravada, RECALL;;DO NOT DRIVE THEM this was put out by GM..
7. Oldsmobile >> ask the Loyal Oldsmobile customer what they think of GM...Not to mention the trade in values of all the Olds models.. Ex: Wife's Father Loyal GM customer for 50 years..!! what did he think of GM.."his next Minivan will be a Honda..Another lost GM customer........"
It is very easy to be critical of a company that cannot seem to get it's act together..and for you loyal GM customers. Do you not feel like the Troops in the Alamo saying " We can still win the battle here my fellow 100 soldiers" as the 5000 Mexican troops are pouring into the Alamo..!!
Comments
About the AZTEK........They are flying out of the dealership near my place. I talk to my sales guy all the time as I getting in his hockey playoff pool.
He sold 2 on Saturday.......a buzz is starting about the vehicle. Very cool.
After doing the research he decided to pick up an AZTEK...... Congrats Brian!! Thanks for the email and all the best with the vehicle.
Even the naysayers......who try so hard to influence......cannot hide the fact that the AZTEK is a quality vehicle that delivers solid performnce in a FLEXIBLE FUN PACKAGE!!
Enjoy Brian.....keep us posted.
(You're sure he didn't win one at Tim Hortons?)
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
No he did not win it at Timmy's . As far as the atmoshere in here. I can tell you that some posts that get through would never be allowed on some the other boards. (ie: x5....Did BMW pay you to change the name from X5 Problems to BMW x.5 III.........lol....protecting their brand)
But Steve......you are not all bad. I purchased the Sentra based on your recommendation and I think I've made a better decision.
All the Best.......My good host Steve.
Hi gizmo!
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Now gonzo on the otherhand is a scream, and should be applauded for bringing people to the site.
Hope you like the Sentra, but really, I warn you against using Armorall (?) on the dash. Look at the way it curves and direct the car to a low-lying sun -- it will be very very difficult to see from the driver's position. Other than that, a really solid little car.
It just proves the theory if you continue cutting the price of a commodity, it will sell..!!
No matter how unsafe the Aztek is or how terrible the resale is, people will buy it because it will be priced way below the competition >>>Honda CRV, Toyota, Hyundai Santa Fe, and other MINIVANS..!
Hey this sounds like typical GM marketing..
Beat the competition not with quality, but with price point...!!!
An individual reading this board......SHOPPING deserves to know that.
Anything else.....any claims of being UNSAFE is a BOLD lie.
5 STAR SIDE IMPACT
3 STAR REAR..................HARDLY unsafe.
Do not believe these lies.
Other '01 vehicles with 3 star (or less) rear side impact ratings:
Chev Prizm
Ford Escort
Saturn SL
Toyota Corolla
Chev Cavalier
Dodge Neon
Ford Focus *
Mazda 626
Pontiac Sunfire
Volkswagen Beetle
Buick Century
Chev. Lumina
Chrysler Concorde
Daewoo Leganza
Ford Mustang
Ford Taurus *
Mazda Millenia
Mercury Cougar
Mercury Sable
Nissan Altima
Oldsmobile Alero
Oldsmobile Intrigue
Pontiac Grand Am
Pontiac Grand Prix
Toyota Camry *
Chrysler LHS
Note: * denotes a vehicle on the list of top 10 best sellers in the US in 2000.
Just to balance the safety information presented by others...
theiceman
Meanwhile U.S. manufacturers are into their biggest slump in a decade. Dunk that in your coffee while you're hunting for a "below invoice" Aztek.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I also like to poll the trend-setting 16 year old staff concerning the state of the automotive industry.
2001 Pontiac Aztec
I seriously doubt the average buyer of an Aztec cross-shops ANY of the cars you listed above... and for that matter, ANY car. They cross-shop suv's and mini vans.
Not to be confrontational, but lets look at it this way...
You're child decides to become a law-enforcement officer and you're shopping together for bullet-proof vests. 35 models currently on the market have been tested.
As a concerned parent, you do some research and learn that of the 35 tested:
MOST have 5% chance of a bullet causing serious injury
SOME have 6%-10% chance of serious injury
ONLY ONE has an 11-15% chance of serious injury
Now, your kid likes the styling of that "ONE" with 11-15% chance... he also likes the way it feels.
But, after reading that the one he really likes is the lowest rated of the bunch, he gets "scared" and asks for your advice. So, as a parent, which model do YOU advise he purchase? Should he get the one he LIKES or the one that offers the most protection for his money?
Listing the results of some popular cars is the same as saying to your kid "Well son, I wouldn't worry about that vest you like getting the lowest rating... look, these helmets over here have the same rating" The point being, sure, other items have the same protection and are popular But HE's shopping for a VEST... not a HELMET.
Of course there are some cars that have 3-star rear side impact ratings. And this IS relevant if you are considering an Aztec vs. one of those cars. But, EVERY Aztek owner posting here cross-shopped SUV's mainly... others cross-shopped minivans. To suggest that people shopping for an Aztek shouldn't be "scared" about the 3-star rating because a Taurus and a Camry got 3-stars serves no purpose.
All of the "big three" admit that utility isn't even the main reason most choose SUV's over cars... Buyers - particularly women -are buying SUV's because of the perception that they are SAFER than cars. They truly believe that riding higher than a car affords them and their passengers additional safety. When discussing rear-side impact protection, they are correct... ALL 2001 SUV's (except the Aztek and Forester) received 5-stars.
The following 2001 SUV's received 5-star rear side-impact ratings:
Chevy Blazer
Chevy Tracker
Ford Escape
Ford Explorer
GMC Jimmy
Honda CR-V
Honda Passport
Infiniti QX4
Isuzu Rodeo
Jeep Cherokee
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Lexus RX 300
Mazda Tribute
Mercury Mountaineer
Nissan Pathfinder
Nissan Xterra
Olds Bravada
Suzuki Vitara
Toyota 4-Runner
The Subaru Forester got 4-stars
The Pontiac Aztek got 3-stars
These are ALL of the 2001 SUV's tested to date. You can form your own opinion.
Enough of the [non-permissible content removed]-for-tat... If you're thinking of buying an aztek, go to http://www.nhtsa.gov and compare the aztek to every other SUV in the 2001 model list and form your OWN opinion.
Next topic please.
Dindak: your latest post summed it up nicely.
Jmatero: The readers on this forum have heard your message ad nauseum and I think we're suggesting that your your safety awareness campaign would best be taken where it would have the greatest impact - say, to the Taurus or Camry boards where I am sure hundreds of irresponsible parents lurk awaiting for your inspired guidance.
theiceman
You're right, this has been going on too long and I'll shut up now. Man, it's hard not to respond to posts that are written to mislead people though.
You know, we're having a hard time working up indifference on this very subject in the "Vehicle Safety" topic in "News & Views" and yet here....
theiceman
Fellow motorists tend to say "Oh my gosh! Look at that thing! Avoid it!, Avoid it!"
Thus, perhaps the Aztek's styling is a badly needed safety feature.
or fired by gm
lol........how's your chevette
"General Motors designers are being challenged to rein in flights of fancy and
focus on the critical elements of their projects
``I am rigorous, and that is not what designers like,'' says Anne Asensio, the
37-year-old design executive hired from Renault SA in May 2000.
She was handed the key job of ensuring that each GM brand develops and maintains a distinct image."
She was just hired in May and had no chance to get her hands on the Aztek!
Nice try jkidd2.
As far as negotiations go, if the dealer invoice is $20,000 offer $19,000. I do not know for a fact, but I'm guessing the $500 dealer rebate was also extended. Overall, I suggest you do not start your negotiations at $18,500, but end your negotiations at $18,500. You should not have too much of a problem finding a dealer to bite on selling a 'Tek within $100 of invoice, less any incentives.
I live in the great midwest and will be purchasing a 'Tek as soon as we sell our second car, a '94 Sunbird that has turned out to be a low cost vehicle to operate over the 7 years we have owned it (albeit a cheaply built car). I have found several dealer's willing to sell an Aztek at $100 over invoice.
Good luck!
Quote from the article regarding Jerry Flint's speech to GM:
"Design. What do you want me to say? GM invented car design. Harley Earle. Bill Mitchell. I knew some of these people. Now, you have the Aztek. For god's sake, why couldn't they hire somebody? Ford did. Chrysler did. Mercedes and BMW did. They all do (not the Japanese, their designers really are Japanese.) Now, GM did hire someone from the outside, a French woman from Renault. Now, I like French women, and I wish her well. I am sure she is talented. But please explain to me who buys French Renaults besides the French and a few Spaniards. Who? Nobody. Why can't GM find an American who understands the American culture and who can create a PT Cruiser or a Thunderbird? Why do they hire a foreigner?"
I assumed he was talking about the designer of the Aztek.
So, the words "NOBODY" and "BUYS" in your mind are closely associated with the Aztek?
It's even funnier than I expected.
jkidd2, your're G-R-E-A-T !!!!
Orders for the April 10th date are scheduled for production the week of April 30th. there are no restricted options.
As of March 28th, Pontiac announced that 2001 Aztek production would extend through mid-November 2001. This is to give more time for Pontiac to implement minor exterior enhancements.
Another overlooked way to lower an Aztek (or any GM) purchase is the GM Card. Up to $1,500 in earnings can be applied to an Aztek purchase or lease.
The point being, if you're in the market for an Aztek, there are other SUVs and Minivans that are the SAME price or LESS expensive that offer GREATER rear passenger protection.
And yes, 1% isn't much more than the Aztek, but 14% is and when it comes to my kids, I'll take that 1% anyday.
Who cares about safety!?!
Safety pales in comparison to having a car your kid's friends think is cool.
Sure, you might survive an accident in your boring ol' car but an Aztek owner can unfurl their tent and enjoy a fresh, cold soda-pop from the cooler while waiting for the ambulance.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I've had enough of this silly arguement. You can't convince me and many others that the Aztek is flawed mechanically. And I have no intention to praise or insult your vehicle. I will say that I have zero confidence in the NHTSA ratings because I have absolutely no idea how they assign them. Stars? Why not Moons? Or Flowers or something. The EPA has figured out that GM, Ford and the rest are better at testing for emissions than they are. Why not NHTSA? NHTSA doesn't really have a great track record. Any agency that has Joan Claybrook as alumni is not an agency that I can believe in. If you choose to make your choices because of a government rating, more power to you. But don't tell others to think the same way as you.
The government tossed a 3,000+lb object at car bumper height into the side of a Pontiac Aztek last month. The back-seat passengers had an 11-20% chance of serious injury.
The government tossed the same 3,000+lb object at car bumper height into the sides of 34 other 2001 minivans and SUVs. The back-seat passengers in the majority of those vehicles had a 5% Chance or less of getting a serious injury.
Apparently, you haven't even GONE to the site and read about the Aztek because if you did, you wouldn't be asking silly questions like "Does anybody know what a "star" equals? Does it mean you did your homework? What does it compare to?"
And yes, it is clearly stated what the side impact stars mean... from the NHTSA.gov site:
UNDERSTANDING THE STAR RATING FOR SIDE IMPACT CRASH TESTS
Why Are We Using the Star Ratings?
In response to Congress' request to provide consumers with easily understandable vehicle safety performance information, the National Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) developed the 'star' scoring system for the frontal crash test. The results are reported in a range of one to five stars. This star rating methodology has been extended to the lateral impact.
How Do I Interpret the Different Levels of Protection for Side Impact Crash Tests?
Drivers and passengers in the side crash rating receive a one to five star rating, with five stars indicating the best performance. The side crash star ratings are assigned based in the chance of a life threatening chest injury for the driver, the front seat passenger, and the rear seat passengers. Head injury is not measured in the side crashes. For every vehicle in a severe side crash there are two vehicles in severe frontal crashes.
What Do the Stars Mean? 5 stars = 5% or less than chance of serious injury
4 stars = 6% to 10% chance of serious injury
3 stars = 11% to 20% chance of serious injury
2 stars = 21% to 25% chance of serious injury
1 star = 26% or greater chance of serious injury
A serious injury is considered to be one requiring immediate hospitalization and may be life threatening.
Side Crash Test Procedures.
The test configuration represents an intersection type collision with a 3015 pound deformable barrier moving at 38.5 mph into the stationary struck vehicle. In the stationary vehicle, instrumented dummies in the driver and rear seat passenger seats register forces during the crash. These measures form the basis for the "Star Ratings" chart.
Oh, and LBtheDOG... I've NEVER told others to think the same way I do. Those are your words not mine. I've repeatedly asked that people research the vehicle they're looking to buy and make their own educated decision.
You don't want to believe in crash tests? Fine. Good luck to you. That's your choice and I respect it. But stop spreading lies by suggesting I'm "telling others to think the same way" as me.
As for your "mass" argument, it has merrit, but the fact remains that if an Aztek broad-sides you in another Aztek, you're much more likely to be injured as a back-seat passenger than in any other 20001 SUV and Minivan.
In fact, you'd be safer riding in the back seat of a Honda Civic being hit by that same Aztek.
Facts sir... you don't like it? Write Pontiac. They're the ones who built the thing. I'd be a little ashamed if I owned one and heard a Honda Civic had a safer back-seat... particulary after spending $25,000 for a 4,000lb vehicle. You don't like the facts, don't read that post.
Mass matters
Look, you've tried very hard to scare people out of the Aztek. Hasn't worked. I promise to wear a helmet if it makes you happy. And no you aren't "safer" in the back seat of a Civic. I posted the link to a site that presents real world data, you chose to ignore it. I've had a great time cranking you up. No reason to stop now.
Hey, here's the link again:
http://www.crashtest.com/pontiac/ie.htm
Try it, but it may disappoint you, no stars, just real world data. And what a shock, the Aztek gets a Excellent, Acceptable and Excellent rating! Real world data! If no data available, they don't make it up.
Mark
The point is that, in the real world, if a smaller car gets T-boned by a larger one, the NHTSA's lab tests become rather academic. I know full well that NHTSA's side impact test is the only one which can be compared across vehicle sizes but it is an only an indicator of crash performance not the ultimate arbiter of vehicle safety.
I saw a report (on Canadian TV?) about 2 years or so ago that confirmed something I had long suspected. The primary focus of the story was that the advent of SUV's was changing a dynamic: bumper height was becoming less standard and mass was increasing. This was coupled with increasing speed limits (in some jurisdictions) and increasingly aggressive driving habits (such as red lights being ignored). The result? more side impacts involving greater mass at greater impact speed. As a sidebar, the show looked into side impact crash tests and reported that these test results can change by moving the sled's impact point by just an inch or two vertically or horizontally and can change dramatically as the angle of the impact moves from blunt to acute.
The fact that the NHTSA does not move the impact point around and average the results is naturally related to the fact that they'd have to buy multiple copies of the same vehicle but it would obviously be a stronger link to real world crash performance. According to that story, some cars might do better if the NHTSA did that while others would likely do worse.
So, as it stands, we're left looking at the NHTSA's stars as just an indicator. That being said, these tests should not be dismissed but neither should they be held up as an ultimate and unassailable indication of any vehicle's safety. It is therefore not irresponsible to tell an Aztek owner that their vehicle received a 3 star rating - it is far more so to tell one that your kids are safer in the back seat of your car than theirs are in their vehicles by virtue of the results of a test which many consider to be imperfect.
Like many others, I will stick by the NHTSA's test results as an indicator of safety and will continue to take it very seriously when I buy. But I will not make the leap to real world safety from the results of tests which do not do enough to account for the myriad of crash dynamics that can exist in the real world. Until they come up with a more unassailable safety rating, we can only point at the test results, we cannot make unequivocal statements or claims about the safety of our passengers.
As I said in an earlier posting, I think by now, most readers of this thread are aware of the Aztek's weakest crash result - its 3 star rear side impact rating. That is the only part of any argument I have seen that is irrefutable. Let's drop the other stuff as neither side has real world data to support its arguments that vehicle "A" isn't safe and vehicle "P" is.
theiceman
What's your point? YOU're misleading AGAIN. Cut it out. "Acceptable" for side impact... not "excellent" like you posted. If you won't post accurate data, don't post at all.
GM the hits just keep on coming..!!
Between safety recalls and depreciation on the 2001 Aztek ( I think the Aztek will set a new world record for depreciation in it's first year)
GM just keeps on making mistakes...!!!
I really want these vehicles to succeed... from all accounts they are very promising designs and GM really needs a sales success ASAP. I actually like the GMC Envoy from what I've seen. But, since it's a new model, I'd personally wait a year while they work the bugs out. I bet the 2004's will be incredible! Cut them some slack here... they're handling this MUCH better than Ford did with the Explorer. Also, they're still investigating whether it is a design flaw or a manufacturing defect. Maybe the supplier cranked out a group of "bad" ones. I mean, the problem was discovered by Dealers testing the cars themselves on-road prior to sale. I'm sure GM tested these vehicles Off-road under extreme conditions and if they didn't have this problem, it's most likely a manufacturing defect.
I feel bad for the folks who just picked their's up though. Picking up your new car is one of life's "little pleasures" and this kinda throws a wrench into the works. At least they get rental cars. Let's hold off on the ridicule until we hear the final outcome. If it's a manufacturing defect, it was really out of their control. If it's a design flaw, they do deserve "a spanking".
Just pulling your chain a bit buddy!
Ken
She asked the dealer if they were selling any and he said no. I think they give it out as a loaner to try and drum up some interest, isn't working.
Example:
1. GM has lost market share every year since 1970.
2. According to Consumer Reports , GM makes the least reliable vehicles...compared to Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, and even Nissan.
3 They came out with the Aztek and did not even come close to their sales goals..In Fact they are redesigning the vehicle in it SECOND year of production. Also the Aztek is being sold at below invoice only 10 months into production..Unlike the Toyota Sequoia that is more expensive and is STILL being sold close to MSRP..
4. Safety...bottom line the Aztek has the same platform as the Montana Minivan..which was rated "POOR" in the IIHS offset crash test.
5. FOR THE FIRST TIME IN AUTOMOTIVE HISTORY..
Cadillac came in third , in the Luxury Category behind Lexus #1 and Mercedes #2..in the year 2000(wow Lexus has only been around since 1990)....... Also according to Auto.com
Cadillac (GM's Luxury Flagship) is 33% behind last years sales.
6. 2002 Envoy, Bravada, RECALL;;DO NOT DRIVE THEM
this was put out by GM..
7. Oldsmobile >> ask the Loyal Oldsmobile customer what they think of GM...Not to mention the trade in values of all the Olds models..
Ex: Wife's Father Loyal GM customer for 50 years..!! what did he think of GM.."his next Minivan will be a Honda..Another lost GM customer........"
It is very easy to be critical of a company that cannot seem to get it's act together..and for you loyal GM customers. Do you not feel like the Troops in the Alamo saying " We can still win the battle here my fellow 100 soldiers" as the 5000 Mexican troops are pouring into the Alamo..!!