Pontiac Aztek

tonychrys

No source, like I said, just my prediction.

Having seen various models disappear (not just from GM) from the automotive landscape during my +20 years of driving, the Aztek is a likely candidate.

Why? There is nothing really "unique" about it, other than the polarizing sheet metal. Everything used in it, from the engine to the electronics, is already established GM technologies and products. Because of this fact, there were minimal start-up costs as compared to other, more innovative vehicles. This makes it even easier to close the production line down (in order to change it over to another more promising vehicle).

The whole "cross-over vehicle" market segment that the Aztek tries to play in is mighty competitive and only going to get more so in MY2002. The Aztek was GM's effort to rush a product out to test the waters of this market space. What GM probably learned is that this market space is ripe to be plucked (look at the other carmakers' success), but that the execution of the Aztek idea did not live up to their goals. GM has some tricks up their sleeve with the Rendevous, Vibe and others, and can't afford to concentrate on a vehicle at 20 to 30K (or whatever it is) units a year.

My opinion in all the recent advertising is that it has been an attempt for GM to save face with the dealers. The only thing they have to accomplish at this point is to get the cars off the dealer's lots, the real automotive press (not the local papers) has already dismissed this vehicle. Unless their is a radical change (not just cosmetic), the auto press will simply let the vehicle fade into oblivion. An example of this is the Nissan PF, which the press basically ignored because there was nothing really unique about it anymore. As soon as Nissan dropped the 240hp engine in there, it once again became a desirable vehicle.

Just some thoughts.

dindak

You made it sound like Aztek being dropped was a matter of fact. Your opinions and views are obviously tainted so it's hard to believe anything you say about the Aztek. Personally, I agree that it could be dropped also if it doesn't sell well with the re-skin. That being said, it's FAR to early to predict that sort of thing.

tonychrys

Sorry you interpreted it that way, but I did say "predicted" and wasn't looking to imply "authoritative." Just as you believe my opinions are "tainted", there are many folks such as yourself that believe GM can do no wrong, which is blindly biased. Being a current and past GM customer, I believe my opinions carry just as much weight as the next guy, which is probably meaningless to the GM brass.

lbthedog

Not going to happen, Aztek will live on, no doubt about it. As proof I give the reception the Rendezvous has gotten. Buick took 4 times as many early orders as expected, Ford is retooling a Taurus plant to build a similar vehicle. Aztek may change, GM is known to be in the first stages of a rebop of the U-Van platform but it is not going away.

billybob19

I think GM learned a hard lesson from this - they will market a more palatable (salsa?) and reasonably priced vehicle and keep it in the stable. Doing these 2 things will boost sales. One can't just trot out the brand manager and fool 70000 people any longer.

tonychrys

"One can't just trot out the brand manager and fool 70000 people any longer."

You nailed it. They tried that stunt recently on Edmunds with the 2002 Bravada Brand Manager. She left packing when folks started asking the "tough" questions and harping on GM's past exploits, especially in terms of safety.

As far as what the doggy says, I tend to ignore him. Too defensive and biased for my taste.

lbthedog

Bias?

I hope you're kidding?

akajoe

It is interesting that we all still believe GM is a car company. Much like we still believe IBM is a computer company (it's main revenues come from services, not computers). As a matter of fact, GM produces cars not because it is profitable - heck, there are much more profitable things for GM to make that doesn't require so much capital investment just to make a measily $3-5K on each vehicle (or less than 10% profit margins). Just look at CISCO.

GM is a media company, and building cars is their way of building market share for audience. If GM turns on GSM cell phone service on all their cars equipped with ON-star, they would overnight become one of the largest digital cell phone service providers worldwide (that's why they insist on bundling Onstar with as many cars as possible). If they light up their "Birds" in the sky that are owned by Hughes, they would overnight become the largest digital TV and radio broadcaster for the mobile market. As we spend 2 hours in our cars every day (12% of our waking hours), GM would instantly become a powerhouse media company that could deliver digital programming, communications, and internet to 25% of the US driving market for over 12% of their conscious time. And who knows, if our cars are better equiped for the new economy age than our offices and homes, we may start spending more time in our cars and their timeshare may grow.

What do you think the heads up display is all about? Electronic billboards - always changing, time, location and driver dependent advertising content, nationwide. Much more powerful targeting. They could overnight become the envy of Time-Warner and Amazon combined. DVD players in cars - of course. Direct TV to your car. Internet terminals to your car.

So what is the strategy? Cars are commodities - disposable and readily replaced like PC's. Make them cost effective to replace every 2-3 years. They are like clothing - fashions come and go. Shorter fashion cycles means more turnover, more cars sold. More used cars (turned over) means greater market share of used car audience. Segment the crap out of the market and make a model to appeal to very narrow highly targeted segments (including the extremes). This builds market share. Market share is everything. Once the captive audience is in place, they will profit big on the "gotta have" information services through subscriptions, value added information services, and advertising.

Armed with the GPS and broadband to each and every car, they will know where you are, where you are going, what you are interested in, and tailor information that has the greatest impact and usefulness to you (and their advertising customer). You'll be ordering blue jeans from your car on your way to the Gap store near you that they told you to go with GM being the front-end transaction broker. Same goes with restaurants, hotels, even gas stations. Buy Chevron because it is recommended (for the time and location where you are). The influence they will have on the driver on buying decisions will give them power of advertising and will bring them many very big clients like Nike, Walmart, you name it.

dindak

tonychrys : I have indeed criticized GM for lots of things and the Aztek is a prime example of poor planning. Of course I do like a lot of other things GM does make and I generally have a positive view of the company. I love my Intrigue and given the quality of my car and the Aztek, I may just consider a Rendezvous when my wife's lease is up. I don't like to focus on the business aspect of cars or the company that makes them. I prefer focus on the vehicle alone and that's what makes us different.

akajoe : I have no idea what your point is? GM is not only a car company, neither is Honda or Ford or Diamler.

zircon

Dindak, did you know the general announced that they are turfing their new 3.5 V-6? It was supposed to be put in many other cars, so what's up?

Akajoe is right - the general is really an electronics company, and I don't mean those cheezy delco car steroes. I have watched in amazement as they flog the On Star system. After that 1st free year, though, it will be expensive. Imagine: you're driving down the road and a Beer commercial falshes across the bottom of the heads-up display. Never a dull moment.

What will be cool are these digital subscription radios. GM is supposed to have one out this year. It will allow you to listen to your favourite station right across the country. Commercial free?

dindak

As I understand it, the 3.5L DOHC GM is expensive to make relative to the 3.0L they use in the Saturn/ Cadillac Catera. I think it's a dumb thing to kill the engine as it's one of the best V6s on the market. The 3.0L is very good, but it doesn't have enough HP. I really like the V6 in the Maxima, but the looks of the rear were too hard to take.

GM is heavy into electronics for sure. Love my DirecTV!!!

exzur

Is the optional cargo net system included in the 1SC package for the AZTEK AWD GT? My car was delivered with only one net. Should I get three more nets? There are four nets in the cargo net system according to the brochure. If the net system is included in the 1SC package, why did I not get it? Is this an individual option? Anybody knows?

p0926

Someone posted last winter that GM was unloading the Aztek on rental fleets. Well, I recently took a trip to Orlando and can confirm that I saw more Azteks there in the first 90 mins than I've seen in the past 9 months here in Atlanta. And yes, they all had rental tags.

Also, yesterday I was afforded the opportunity to view an Aztek up close (was stuck behind one in traffic). IMHO they are every bit as ugly up close as I suspected they would be. The rear just got uglier the longer I stared at it. In profile, the wheels are all out of proportion to the overall size of the vehicle and it looks like a minivan. I guess the front, by default, gets my vote as being the least offensive angle to view the beast from, but it needs a major nose job to fix that goofy beak.

Mind you that's just my two cents and my hat's off to the brave souls who have bought one!

-Frank P.

exzur

Glad to hear about your comment with the AZTEK. Was in Florida three weeks ago. What you see was the base AZTEK with the smaller wheels. Wait till you see my top of the line yellow AWD GT AZTEK. Let us compare the two cars side by side, features for features. Here in New York I have seen some 2001 Forester. I also have driven one. Maybe beauty is on the eyes of the beholder. To my eyes, the AZTEK is a better looking car than the Forester.......

kissfan1

What a great post....... You are sooo right. The market share is important but a 1-3 point loss of market share palls when compared to the riches to be had in the media - rich endeavors.

GM are racing to develop apllications that are must have in the vehicle that could generate potential subscription revenues. Broadband access to the vehicle be it TV , internet access are aimed at the captive audience in the vehicle.

There is no question the vehicle of tomorrow will look nothing like that of today. When I say look I do not mean plastic and metal..... I mean the vehicle will be a form of transportation as well as a media outlet.

If anyone saw 6th Day......the vehicle is autopiloted enabling the driver to converse and relate with other passengers or consume "media" (internet or TV). Vehicles are needed to move people......imagine the productivity gains that may be had if that 90 minute drive to Manhatten was replaced with productive work time.

We may not like it but this is where we are going. AKAJOE...... I appreciate you thought provoking post and I agree with you that the vehicle is and will be a "media" outlet whether we like it or not.

; )........... wearing the AZTEK smile.

montanafan

Kissfan, sorry to be the one to bring bad news. On April 2nd, Pontiac did announce a recalled Aztek. Recall 01-004A Passenger Side Air Bag Inflator Module. And I do mean A recalled Aztek, there was only ONE recalled. (Along with 2-Montanas, 3-Ventures, 5-Luminas, and 9-Grand Prixs for a total of 20 cars.). Just wanted to give you the heads up here in the safety of the owners club before the anti-teks in the general area catch wind. For those who are wondering, I have been told it was White Base Aztek in PA.

garlascop

Hey Exzur

I just bought my Aztek GT AWD, Yellow!!
It too came with only one net. When I inquired as to why. I was told when you get the slide out cargo tray you do not get the 4 way net system. I think that's silly but it is GM.

BTW to all those Aztek bashers, this is a great car!! You might try using one before you bash it! My wife & I love it!!

akajoe

I forgot to make my point as I was expounding on GM's media strategy. It regards their marketing strategy and building market share.

Everything moves at Internet speed these days - and that includes automobile manufacturing and marketing. Even more significant, Internet efficiency makes possible and necessary the notion that markets are composed of thousands of niches. People are now expecting to have information and products defined the way they like it - damned the mainstream fashions.

Therefore, while the 80's was the decade of the Japanese defining the 6 sigma automobile that offended no one and appealed to 95% of the market, and the 90's was the decade of positioning products into income segments, the new millenium ushers in the era of the Internet marketing model - individualism. It is the Burger King approach - have it your way. Compromise designs that offend no one also inspire no one - they don't make their owners stand out and don't necessarily represent their owner's personalities (unless the owners are accountants). Like fashion statements, people want the vehicles in which they spend 12% of their time to say something about the: where they've been, what they've achieved, who they are. Individualized designs result in complete satisfaction by offering a value proposition that customers are willing to pay a premium for. This proposition is their individuality.

GM's moves make some sense. They are trying to address many niches which may max out at 30K units a year. Eventually, all cars they make will own a niche of that size. But with so many niches, they will actually expand their market share. To do this cost effectively, they need to consolidate their platforms and their systems across all product lines and to create new niche products with reduced differentiation costs. Marketing costs will be managed by the advent of the Internet. Their build to order program is an example of this. By configuring the product differentiators properly and setting up their factories like Dell computer, they can pull this off and create profit growth along with higher customer satisfaction.

Pontiac Aztek is such a vehicle - it won't be a Ford Taurus (the throat lozenge that nobody hated, but nobody wanted to be seen in). You either love it or you hate it (nobody is neutral about it). Both evoked responses are good from a marketing perspective because it creates mindshare. What you don't want is ambivalence. From this perspective, the Aztek succeeds very well. The special niche is "function before form". Pricing is still a work in progress, but once they get this just right, you can be sure every Aztek owner will be thrilled with their purchase. And those that chose not to buy Aztek will either acknowledge their unwillingness to stick out in the crowd or that they simply hate the thing. But either way, the brand GM is stuck in their minds. And this is a good thing. Marketing is about creating brand awareness (like it or hate it, please don't "not care").

Niche products bring higher profit margins (compared to commodity autos that are just transportation), and result in complete and total customer satisfaction (which builds brand awareness and value). I sense this in Aztek owners.

More later ...

oac3

yep, you do have a lot of good things to say... and such eloquence to boot !!!

the issue of branding, a la GM, is that it itself is going to be the future for many things, but lingering perceptions (rightly or wrongly) of 'quality' will not disappear so quickly. the general is doing some things right, but a helluva lot of things wrong. now, if the general wakes up one day and announce it is a global electronic company, i guess we would all simply say, yep, that's right too. right ?

methinks that while burger king "does it your way", it still trails the big mac is sales, revenue, market share, and the all too deceptive "perception".... yes, you can have it your way if there aren't a bunch of kids and their parents hassling the cook for a truck-load of dem burgers...read: you are all by yourself on the drive through and burger king is only too willing to make it "your way".

in the medical industry, talk/rumor has it that we would soon practice medicine "your way". meaning, medicine designed for specific types of people. watch out for it people. the medicine of the future is to have tylenol, or a form of it, designed entirely for your brother but not for you. why ? something in the genes of your brother makes him amenable to tylenol while you aren't. i am trying to make it sound simplistic here, which it isn't; by a long shot. is this branding too ?

oops, forgot to mention the 'Tek in this piece. well, i just did so my post technically belongs on this board :-)

dindak

Congrats on the Aztek. Yellow is great color.

waymoresblues

I have a non-GT Tek with the 1 SC package and I did get the multi-net system. Tried to figure this out one day and could not. Next time I have a spare hour I'll try reading the instructions (something I hate doing since I think I'm smart! LOL) My guess is that the dealer "borrowed" your net system to make a sale on a 'Tek that didn't have one that came with it...raise some Hell.

millergr

Guys-

When you get the 1SC package and get the cargo tray, you automatically don't get the 4-net system. Instead, they do give you one additional net that can be used at the rear edge of the cargo area in conjunction with the tray. If you have the cargo tray installed you would not be able to use the 4-net system anyways as they both use the same anchor points. I have the cargo tray but am lucky enough to have a friend on the inside who can get me the net system for free. So far I like the tray but I would like to see how versatile the net system is too. I will comment on it when I get it.

Later,

Greg
(2001 Yellow AWD GT)

waymoresblues

package. Anyone hooked this net system up yet? Are there instructions in the book?

rotterdamron

Hi fellow lek owners, I used my TEK for what I bought it for, move my daughter back from college. Taking both seats out was a breeze, small hint, move the driver and passenger seat up all the way. Removing the cargo tray and slide was even easier, loaded up and didn't have to worry bout things flying out as I did with my pick-up. Re-Installing seats and cargo tray was also a snap, by the way, am getting 26.5MPG on the road, does it get any better?

millergr

Waymoreblues-

When did you take delivery of your ride? For some of the early deliveries this year they did not have cargo trays available so they sold some with 1SC pacakages and deleted the cargo tray. I have even seen some models on the lots with the HUD deleted from the 1SC package too for the same reason(those items may not have been available during a certain production period). If you did get the 1SC package and did not see a deletion on your invoice for the cargo tray then I would make a trip back to the dealership as he would owe you the cargo tray or an adjustment.

Greg

stever

Pontiac Aztek Road Test Column from The Business Press.

Steve
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ab348

As one of the Aztek bashers (or at least one of those who has had some fun at its expense) I have given the vehicle and GM a very hard time in this forum (deservedly so I think). Nevertheless I have been convinced by all of the glowing reports here from the converted that perhaps the thing is not the pure evil it appears at first glance. So, for a long (3-hr each way) business trip Wed., I have booked an Aztek from Avis (they have a whole fleet in every color; hope I get the green one). I'll file a full, unbiased and honest report, hopefully Thursday (if the locals where I'm heading don't shoot me first -- I'm sure this will be the first Aztek ever to roll a wheel on their fine land).

dindak

Keep in mind you will be driving a base model with the smaller tires. I'm tempted to rent one myself one weekend for fun. I would certainly scare the neighbors!!

exzur

The base model you will be driving has the fifteen inch wheel. Other AZTEKs come with the sixteen inch wheel. Looking at two cars with two different wheel sizes, makes me hard to believe only an inch seperates the two. I hate to do math finding out the difference in circumference.

The rent-a-car model is decently equipped, but, I consider it strip down comparing to the top of the line AZTEK.

jmatero

I am devistated.

Really.

I just read that Pontiac has decided that AWD will only be offered in the new Vibe with the 130hp engine and Automatic. The GT with the 6-speed, 17" wheels/tires and 180hp motor will only be Front Wheel Drive.

This is killing me because I was... for the first time in my life... seriously considering a GM vehicle and as usual, it looks like they are going to screw it up. What is the LOGIC here? With the wildly popular Subaru WRX wagon selling faster than they can build them.... the Pontiac/GM marketing folks decide all those folks are wrong...? I just can't believe they're doing this. Sorry to go on about it but I'm VERY upset. What is WRONG with this company? If I wanted AWD with 130hp and automatic I'd just buy a RAV-4... how can they expect to sell the matrix/vibe with the same set-up? It just doesn't make sense.

dindak

Will the Toyota version have a 4WD version??

jmatero

oddly enough, the toyota is being built in Canada while the Pontiac is assembled in California. Personally, I don't like the styling of the Toyota and that would be enough to keep me away. I just wish I knew what their logic was when they made that decision. Geez, some would argue (even Kissfan!!) that introducing an "active lifestyle" vehicle and not offering AWD right away played a part in the "aztek disaster" this year. Now they seem poised to do it again. Even more disturbing is that AWD is going to add quite a bit of weight to the car and to offer it only with the 130hp engine and automatic will make it a DOG. Even the RAV-4 and CR-V offer 140+ standard and most think THEY are dogs. 130hp and no stick-shift? Are they kidding? But they'll offer the 180hp Celica motor in the FWD models? I don't get it. It sounds like "GM Marketing Folks Strike Again" to me. I hope they read these boards and change their mind while there is still time. I mean, when the Aztek came out, they showed folks driving on the beach, up a mountain, in deep snow... yet AWD wasn't available for MONTHS.

tonychrys

Welcome to the "World of the General", where logic and (savvy) customer desires are ignored. They are more concerned with the middle of America (and other parts of North America) that love the drivel that the General spits out.

I have a date with the General Friday... to see if they'll finally fix my defective brakes. Should be fun.

waymoresblues

I took delivery of my Tek in August. I'll have to look at my invoice and see if it listed a tray.
I know I don't have that OR a HUD (but with a sunroof...you can't have both can you?)

skyking76

Anyone have some Troll-B-Gone for these trolls that come into a GM forum just to bash GM?

tonychrys

I'm a GM customer, I paid my dues. And I've owned foreign, domestic, downscale, upscale, etc. so at least I have a point of reference to base my comments, rather than the average Joe who has only owned GM/domestic and rants about how great his '95 Blazer is and how he only had to replace the fuel pump three times.

Puhleezee.

lbthedog

Neither were ready when production started. Something about rattles in the tray and the supplier not up to speed for the HUD. It is disappointing that the credit you got for not getting the tray is not the same as if you went to the Pontiac dealer and ordered one as a replacement part. If anybody has found a way of getting one for the price of the credit, please let me know.

93fsu1

Looks like a garbage truck grafted on the backside of a pacer.

93fsu1

Found this at caranddriver.com:

"Inventories of unsold Azteks have risen to 168 days' supply, far above the industry average of 66 days at the end of February, according to Ward's Automotive Reports."

drzoom1

Thank you for your research! I look forward to your report on March sales.

kissfan1

Sit on the side line dance and launch salvos all you want. I've driven the others ....I've shopped the comparatives...... Xterra, Pathfinder, Rav4 , CRV, Santa Fe....... Nothing close to features ,
comfort and ride that the AZTEK provides.

And so far well built solid vehicle. I cannot speak for other GM product.

I will say I drove Grand Am , Grand Prix, Sunfire while I was shopping for my 2001 Sentra SE. Frankly some of the disdain I hear for GM.......is somewhat justified.

I must say the AZTEK GT that I drive and own is unlike any vehicle I shopped for.

By the way.......I coulda leased a Mercedes ML 300 which in all honesty drives very similarly to the AZTEK GT. I was surprised......

Wearing the AZTEK smile.......... ; ) ............. ALWAYS!!!

zircon

Well, owing 2 Hondas currently, both trouble free, I was considering re-joining the GM car family. I diligently built up $3500 credit on my card, but watched some of it wane because I didn't buy their dung-like cars. I started using the card again once it was clear they were coming out with the Vibe. Like matero, I was going to seriously consider trading one of our vehicles for a 6-speed, 180HP AWD. Total machine. A real winner for Pontiac.

What happened? Some wicked loser, probably the same MBA who said 'don't put foldable mirrors or AWD on the Aztek until after 1-2 years' production' comes up with the clever marketing idea of putting the kid's engine only in the AWD, and with an auto to boot. This company is TOTALLY DIVORCED FROM THEIR POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS.

Don't worry Mr. Zarella, your company still has 26% of the market. With marketing like this, this company is DOOMED. Better get the PR machine cranked up for this one - a modern day version of the Vega. All its competitors have 140-155HP, the general: 130.

Surely, somebody from the general must read these threads - somebody stop them from making a critical error.

drew_

I think you're referring to the Mercedes-Benz ML320? It feels completely different than the Aztek...I know because my daily driver is an M-class ;-). They're not even in the same ballpark. The M-class's steering, as well as throttle and brake pedal-feel are typical German and very different the Aztek. The Aztek feels a lot more similar to a minivan, which is not necessarily a bad thing, since I also drive a minivan on a regular basis. :-)

Good luck,

Drew
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zircon

New government out there tomorrow eh?

drew_

Well, no more NDP, that's for sure :-)

You can read more about the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix in Edmunds.com's 2001 NAIAS coverage here:
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/45676/article.html

zircon

I went to the Detroit Auto Show and checked out the Vibe, hence my interest. If matero is correct (I couldn't find anything on the web), the Vibe will be defined by:

0-60 in ONLY 14 seconds. Wow. Did Toyota get scared when they saw the Vibe looked nicer than the Matrix? Did they stiff GM with the dog drivetrain while putting the 180HP one in the Matrix? Time will tell....

I did find the Pontiac head's comments regarding the upcoming Vibe. To quote her (Lynn Myers): "For us, it is very important to understand what these young buyers want and
how do we express it so we are relevant to them."

Believe me Lynn, a 130HP auto AWD is going to get you the geriatric set, not the 25-35 yr olds that you think will buy this thing. This decision, if true, needs to be rethought before you have Aztek II on your hands (i.e. good car but poor sales).

drew_

I have started a new Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix topic. Check out my message there:
drew_ "Pontiac Vibe" May 16, 2001 2:33am

FYI, the Vibe also gets the 180hp engine. However, the base Vibe gets the 130hp engine.


Drew
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exzur

93fsu1, Time to go to the eye doctor.

jmatero

You can go to this link for official Pontiac Specs:

http://www.pontiac.com/vibe/vibe_specs_popup.html

In a nutshell, there will be three Vibe Models: The Vibe, Vibe-GT and Vibe AWD. The Vibe and Vibe AWD will both come with the 130hp engine as the ONLY MOTOR AVAILABLE. The Vibe AWD also comes with an Auto Transmission ONLY. To get the 180hp Celica motor, you have to get the GT model which comes with a 6-speed manual only. The only option on the AWD model is a wheel/tire upgrade from 15" to 16". This is a BIG mistake... Honestly, there should be a Vibe and Vibe-GT with AWD available on both (or at the very least on the GT with the bigger motor and 6-speed).

So, here we have Pontiac ready to introduce another "activity vehicle"... and on the site all they talk about is how you can carry skis and snowboards in the winter and surfboards in the summer but only offer AWD on the base model with Auto trans only... SO... we're talking about a 3000lb+ vehicle with auto-trans, the added weight/drag of AWD and only 130hp? Yikes... for comparison, the similarly sized/weighted 2002 subaru impreza wagon with auto/awd comes with 165hp and people posting in the forums call the power "not fast, but adequate"...and the Pontiac/Toyota will have only 130?

I guess I'm so let-down by this because I thought the General had FINALLY decided to produce the perfect vehicle and it seems like they're going to blow it again. Again, when I shop for cars, GM's are not even on the list but after seeing the Vibe in NYC and reading the ORIGINAL specs, I was ready to leave a deposit! It will be even WORSE for toyota because I fail to see how they can market their version on the same showroom floor as the new RAV which come with a more flex. interior and more std. hp.

dindak

What do you need 4WD for? Just wondering.