Funny how this rewiev seems so much like the current election: Bush claims he won - but we'll count the votes later! Edmunds starts with the premise = "we hate it" then tries to rationalize that. Funny that in the real Aztek owners group (not on Edmunds)...actual drivers...the first thing they mention is how quite it rides. Maybe these "reviewers" had their heads out the window - they love it when the wind blows their floppy ears! No one ever said this site is bias against the Aztek (ha ha). Yes, I read Edmunds...but then I listen to Rush & Dr. Laura for comic relief too!
Edmunds reviewer didn't care for it, and by the sales figures most people don't either. I don't think that should earn insults about floppy ears. Regardless of what any of our opinions are, the only way the Aztek will avoid an early death is for people to start buying them in numbers to justify their continued production. The numbers so far have to be a definite disappointment to the marketing people at Pontiac. They will be lucky to sell half the original sales projection at the rate they are selling now.
Hey everyone, I've been reading the threads since Aztec I. This has got to be the funniest forum I have ever read! Well it looks like the Pontiac is a bomb! Actually Pontiac doesn't seem to be doing very good at all. I live in New England and I drive alot of miles (25 - 30k per year). I am a car fanatic so I am always aware of what is around me and new pontiac models are scarce. I see maybe 1 or 2 of the new Bonne's a month! As far as this new Aztec, I think I have seen one!!! Is anyone buying these things? Saw a Rendevous at the Bayside Expo in Boston. It seems like the guys at Buick and the guys at Pontiac don't get along... The latest practical joke is to place an Aztec on a car lot and run like heck!
I bought an Aztek at the end of August and everywhere I go people stare. They ask me what it is. And tell me how much they like it. An even if it does flop, I'll just hold onto it and it might become a very valuable collectors piece. Anyone remember the Edsel???
I just started reading this forum after investigating the Aztec online. It's wild how hot the reaction to this vehicle is!. I think the problem in not what it is, it's what it's not. It's NOT normal, it's not an SUV, It's not based on ancient styling cues ( like PT Cruz) It's not MACHO,and it's not glamorous (like Lexus SUV), and it's not cheap! I'm also ready to say it's not pretty, but form follows function and it really is JUST a funky mini-van no matter what Pontiac say's. The mistake is to try and tell us it's something it's not like a great indie film that get's sucked up into Hollywood marketing and they try to fit it into some standard demografic and suddenly the commercials don't reflect the film at all. I don't really need an SUV but if I need a mini-van but don't want to look like a suburbanite driving a 4-wheel living- room full of kids watching Pokemon on the pop-down video screen, it might be for me.
I can't beleive the Aztec's styling has grown on me - but it has. Just got back from the local auto show to shop for some type of utility vehicle and found the Aztec really intrguing. We have an 98 Audi A6 Avant, 00 Passat sedan and a 99 BMW M coupe and need to replace our hauler vehicle (93 Eurovan MV). The size and features of the Aztec GT (with towing package) are perfect for our needs. Other positives are it's based on tried and true mechanicals. Will wait for the front end crash tests before making a final decision though, hopefully GM made it more crashworthy than the minivan it's based on. The 5 star front side crash tests are encouraging. Interesting that none of the PT cruiser fans mention it's 2 star front offset crash rating - abysmal - I would never own a vehicle with that poor a rating. I could care less if Pontiac hardly sells any of them - that would actually be a selling point for me. I'd say a slightly used, fully loaded Aztec GT may just be our next hauler vehicle. My next choice is another Eurovan, but at $35k+ I think I'll pass.
One of you said that I obviously don't have a young child and that single young men don't think about such things (paraphrase). This was a comment as regards it's safety as opposed to it's stereo sound quality.
1) I have a granddaughter. 2) Gonzo, which would you rather have, your VW or an Aztek in a crash? 3) As for PT Cruisers: They look cool, they ride ok, but have no power. I have test driven them. I expect that they will be like the beetle, very available in a year or two.
Also consider wrapping yourselves in bubble wrap if this is such an issue for you. I had a friend that was with me in the US Army. He and I were in the Ranger Bn. We did all kinds of dangerous things. However, he spent about half of his pay buying all sorts of health food. He was a very healthy man. He served in several hot spots with me and eventually got out. Three days after he got out he got backed up by a garbage truck. Moral of the story is CARPE FRIGGIN DIEM.
As for 95 wrangler, I am sorry to say this as I know it is a bit argumentative, but why do you start your user name with your IQ? The beautiful thing about this country is that we are free to buy something that others may not like. Or in other words, some people like vanilla ice cream, some people like chocolate or any of at least 29 other flavors that I can think of. Oh and as for another claimed "ugly" car and it's current worth . . . How much do you think an Edsel goes for these days? And if you know anything about it, it was also a feature laden vehicle, way ahead of it's time.
You and gonzo are using a non seq. argument in that a vehicle sales rates on e-bay is no indication of it's worth. I would conclude that all of those people selling them on e-bay is an indication of people's desires to rid themselves of them at a time when the uninitiated can be taken advantage of.
I'm sorry sir, but you're mistaken. The PT Cruisers on eBay are mostly cars with 0-miles that owners are trying to make a profit on. Evidence of this is clear... they have little/no miles and are being auctioned at STARTING prices OVER MSRP. Therefore, they are not being sold to "get rid of them". In regards to your feelings on "accidents"... my next door neighbor (a WW2 veteran who stormed the beaches at Normandy... the biggest dare-devil I ever came accross... he was getting ready to take sky-diving lessons...) was riding in his new Olds Sillouette (Identical to the Aztek....same engine, body structure, transmission, platform, etc...) when an old lady ran a stop-sign, turned into his path and hit him head-on at close to 40mph. Roy was killed and his grandson in the passenger seat lost a leg from the knee down and broke his arm in 2 places. You see, it wasn't HIS fault... it was the other NUT out there. You may not care about the safety of the Aztek, but you will when some nut hits you. Hopefully your grandkid wont be in the passenger seat.
Oh, and as for the safety of volkswagens... I drive a 2000 passat and I suggest you look at these two pictures... one of a 2000 Montana (Aztek) and one of a 2000 Passat. They should speak for themselves.
The Edsel does have a great "collectors" value to it... it's a classic. BUT it took close to 40-50 years for that to happen.... You couldn't GIVE ONE AWAY until the 1970's when they started to become collectors items. In other words, you could compare the Edsel to the Aztek, but you'll have to accept the fact that if the Aztek should be worth $$ as such a vehicle, you'll have to wait for at least 5 MORE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS before you'll find a buyer. Also, I'm not trying to defend the PT Cruiser. I just want to present actual facts as opposed to opinions that have no raw data to back them up. Of course the Beetle is readily available, but it is still being sold very close to MSRP... not HUGE discounts like the Aztek. In fact, VW dealers are just starting to talk price with the beetle......not unusual since it's been out since 1998. The aztek is selling close to cost and hasn't been available on the east coast for more than 2 MONTHS. My local dealer here in Stamford has had the same 8 on the lot ( I pass them EVERY DAY) since late sept!!!!
I agree, they are not a perfect vehicle, then what is? I would wonder what you would say about the Sportage or the Tracker?
You seem to have some kind of axe to grind. You obviously don't like the Aztek. You also obviously don't own one.
As for some nut hitting me, poop occurs. I have no control over what happens out there. If it did happen, I would be hurting; however, I wouldn't blame the vehicle, rather I would blame the person who caused the accident.
Christopher Reeves was riding a horse when he fell off, does he think we need safer horses?
Risk is endemic to life, there is no getting around that. I don't live my life worrying about every little thing that might happen. Kismet, Karma, fate or the Norns, whatever you want to call it, it simply is.
The Taoists and the Vikings had a similar belief that, "A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero but one." So do I live my life worrying about a meteor hitting me in the head? And then as I walk out the door, do I worry that some gnat may have some strange strain of virus that will kill me?
That also doesn't mean that I don't need to take some reasonable precaution, but not to the level that you seem to. But then again, this is a Free Republic, and you can do what you like.
As for the PT Cruiser, again, a cool vehicle. The problem I had with it is that I am 6'1" with 54" shoulders and found it too small. I also didn't like the fact that I had to stand on it to get it to go.
I was not implying that the e-bay sales were because it was a dud, rather, I was playing devil's advocate to stress the point that you reinforce, 11 sales on e-bay does not constitute a scientific study.
And about the VW, I was pointing out that a lot of people who bought them for a lot of varied reasons, changed their mind. People have differing reasons and considerations when buying a new car, for some resale value is important, to me it isn't. My last new vehicle was an 83 Ford Ranger that I had until the day it died. It took a garbage truck hitting it to kill it - and it had 385,000 miles on it when it went. So if I have to wait 5 elections, and the car is still around, I will have a rarity.
This one is for jmatero. FYI I live on the east coast and I bought my Aztek in late August, the 18th to be exact. Yes It was the first one that the dealership sold but since then I have seen 3 others on that lot that have had sold signs on. I love the outdoors and the Aztek has a lot of unique features that just aren't available on other vehicles. I wish you would try one before you condemn them! As for the front crash test results I am very curious how those turn out. Hopefully as well as the side impact test results. As for waiting 5 more presidential elections, oh well I love my Aztek and plan on keeping it for a very long time!
First, Garth you are missing the point..."Risk is endemic to Life" yea so..If the type of vehicle you drive can make the difference between life or death..I think that decision is ,( now follow closely) VERY IMPORTANT...!!!
Kelm: "As for the front crash test results I am very curious" WOW I hope you do not find out the hard way ...Like someone hitting you! The Aztek is based upon the same platform as the Montana, just look at the pictures in post # 284 ( they speak for themselves.. I just hope you do not have a family .
By the way, in South Florida the Azteks are now selling at INVOICE.. Hey in couple years your Aztek might be a great bird bath...!
Yes the Aztek is based upon the same platform as the Montana. The Aztek did VERY well on the side impact test results. Do you know how the Montana did? Look at all the Ford Explorers that keep crashing. It is impossible to compare tests done on one model to that of tests done on a completely different one. Are people actually buying new cars in Florida? I thought all their time was taken up by figuring out how to vote in a presidential election!
FYI, the Aztek's side impact ratings from the NHTSA are 5 stars for the front passengers, but only 3 stars for the rear passengers. This means that the rear passengers have about a 2 in 10 chance of being killed or seriously injured in a side impact with a 3000+ pound car (not SUV or van, which would do much more damage) moving at almost 40mph.
So overall, the Aztek did okay, but not quite as good as the minivans.
Hope this clarifies things! Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
This weekend was the Phoenix Auto show. A Buick Rendevous was on display on a rotating platform. It is obviously related to the Aztek . It looked pretty nice, Kind of a acura MDX combined with equal parts Montana and Mercury Mountaineer. I mentioned to a buick guy that is seems related to the Aztek. He replied that they are related but "Ours wasn't designed by teenagers"
I wonder where you got the name topgun? Do you walk around with a helmet on? Do you wear a bullet proof vest 24/7 and if not, isn't your life VERY IMPORTANT? I just asked a friend who is an actuary and he says that you have slightly more of a chance of being in that specific an accident, than being hit by a stray bullet. So, I ask again, wearing safety glasses?
What you say is true, our lives, health and well being are very important. But, there are several things to consider here. It is my life, and my choice. You are probably also vehemently against smoking and are pro helmet laws, and that is fine. Live your life, enjoy! Don't expect me to live mine by your standards. It seems that society wants everyone to be 100% safe, 100% of the time.
I eat steak and eggs over easy, do you decry that also?
By your standards, we should all be driving M-1 Abrams tanks, I hear that they have tremendous impact ratings.
Sportscar conference for expressing my intent to buy an Aztek. I was banished to the SUV conference for my nonconformist and radical thinking. sniff sniff. Looks like I'll not find any solac here either...as an Aztek owner.
The Buick looked really nice and you could definitely tell it was related to the Aztec. Pricing is suppose to be 35 - 40k!!! That is RX, ML, MD-X territory, good luck!!!
There are suppose to be some other spinnoffs with a little variance. Saturn is suppose to have a version a la plastic body panels and optional 4-cyl? ugh... There is also suppose to be a Snaab version with a higher output Snaab V-6. Saturn actually had their version on display at the Bayside Expo center last month. It looked pretty beefy with some slick 17" wheels!!! The styling is pretty conservative, front end resembles an sl-series. So even if the Aztec bombs (like it seems to be)the platform is not dead.
Look, I've driven the aztek 2x and found it to ride about the same as a short wheelbased dodge caravan. I've NEVER attacked the vehicle and would like nothing for GM to have a success. I personally don't find the vehicle's design balanced (others would call it ugly). That's only my opinion, though. I understand that there are people out there that don't care about safety and, again, they are entitled to their opinions. I look at it this way... if there were two knives for sale... one WITH a handle that looked average or one WITHOUT a handle that looked better, I would forgo the looks in order to prevent the chances of being cut in an accident. Now, people who don't care about safety would argue: "Wear a glove... you can't worry about everything... I've never been cut..." To each his own. If you have an aztek and love it, GREAT! I'm truly happy for you! My only advice to perspective buyers is to wait until the new year... by that time, the NHTSA and the INsurance institute will have tested the vehicles. The problem is not that the Montana/Aztek did "poorly". The problem is that its performance was ABYSMAL. I don't know if the readers are aware of this, but GM actually stopped selling the vehicle (where it is called the Open Sintra) in Europe shortly after its introduction because in crash tests, the steering wheel and airbag actually broke off of the steering column. Please click on the posts below... they show the european crash tests of two vehicles... the montana/aztek van and the euro. version of the toyota sienna. The weights are about the same but you should look at the differences in the pictures.
Again, a picture is worth a thousand words. If you don't care about the crash worthiness of a vehicle, then you might want to look at it another way: Do you want to give your money to a company that cares so little about the safety of its customers? Hope this helps.
Greywolf... the Aztek has received NSTSA SIDE IMPACT ratings for the front and rear passengers. The ratings are 5 star front and 2 star rear. The vehicle has not been front-crashed by either the NHTSA or the IIHS (Off-set ratings). Those are the tests where the Montana/aztek platform had the horrible test results. Again, please visit www.NHTSA.gov and click on "crash tests". There you will find links to other crash agencies world-wide. The Aztek has not been frontal-crashed yet so we can only rely on the results of its twin, the Montana.
Huh, just read the review of the Aztek, very interesting. It seems like someone has an axe to grind. I've owned three different SUVs in the past five years and the Aztek is the smoothest running, most solid feeling and first that feels really solid in the turns. I'm also curious how the reviewer drove the car - I haven't experienced any of the negatives he detailed. Granted we all have opinions, but while reading that review I wondered if we were driving the same vehicle.
You are using a totally non-sequitir argument when it comes to knives with or without handles, and purchasing them.
I wonder what those same tests will show about the Kia, Trackers . . . . Then, I also want to say that I bet my Aztek does better in a crash than my two rebuilt RX-7s. And although I drive defensively, I don't drive the vehicles to accidents, I do what I can to avoid them.
The fact of the matter is that I have now heard from about 50 Aztek owners at aztek@therightwing.com. I have not heard one complaint about the Aztek. And in answer to your question, I haven't heard from any unlucky aztek owners that have been in either head on accidents, or side struck ones. I honestly pray that I never do, because I hope that noone has to go through it.
According to the NHTSA, the Kia Sportage got 3 star front crash ratings to the Montana/Aztek's 1-star. Also, the 2001 Chevy Tracker received a 5-star rear side-impact rating compared to the 2001 Aztek's 3-star. I hope this clears up any confusion as to the safety of these vehicles. As for "driving to" accidents as opposed to "Avoiding" accidents: True, you do have to be a defensive driver... but there are cases where avoiding an accident is an impossibility. I only pray you never have to experience that feeling of helplessness. Make an educated decision before you purchase any vehicle. Also, there was mention above thaby jrbrowzer that the aztek is the best driving/riding of all of the suv's (3) he's owned. This is not suprising because SUV's (with the exception of the nissan pathfinder and a select few) are based on truck chasis. The aztek is NOT an suv... it is a minivan, therefore it is more related to a car than a truck.
I agree, I have driven other SUV's and the Aztek is definately the better choice. I have had my Aztek now for 3 1/2 months and I experienced none of those so called problems that the reviewer experienced. I would like to see another review done using another reviewer and a different test vehicle. As for lslv8, MOST of us do like the Aztek except for jmatero who has some god awful axe to grind! And a few others who simply dont like the looks of it. Hey everyone is entitled to their opinion!
1. The Aztek is UGLY.. 2. It's platform is based upon the UNSAFE GM Montana. 3. You will lose your As_ when it comes to resale.. According to "Intellechoice" The Aztek will lose 50% of it's value in just two years.. 4. IT IS NOT A S.U.V... It is a B.U.V...But Ugly vehicle or at the very least a Minivan with a camping option.
P.S. Hey Kelm Get off jmatero's back..!! He is one of the few people here providing facts and pictures to back his statements. Again, most normal people do not like the Aztek , it has not even come close to target numbers sold for GM. Hey I bet you people who own a Aztek are the same type of people that cannot punch a hole in a election card here in FLORIDA...
OH one last thing.... GO BUSH... Gole take it like a man and quit your crying..!!
The Aztek owners are not interested in facts. You just make their lifes more miserable and put on offensive. BTW Gore is not a man. The machines(computers) are controlling every detail of our lives, why not the politics? (a very scary projection).
I have no axe to grind... in fact, if you look back over the months in this forum, I've defended the vehicle over and over again. I drove the vehicle twice now and my first drive was very much like the new Edmunds review. My second was much better; I mentioned at the time that the first was not properly prepped which might have accounted for the poor quality and rattles. Since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, my only negative comments to date center on the safety of the vehicle. My concern being the fact that the Aztek is structurally (sp?) identical to the Pontiac Montana which is a deathtrap according to every government, independent, domestic and foreign agency that has tested it. As I mentioned before, the government will be crashtesting one in a couple of weeks and we'll know more. I hope, for GM's sake, the results are great. I can't, though, see how they would be much different since the aztek is a montana with different cosmetic styling. We'll see. I apologize if I offended any current owners... I'm just trying to present facts to potential buyers.
Could you post the link again to the NHTSA results for the Montana that you are referring to. You say the Montana got one star but when I search the crash test listings at www.NHTSA.gov I get different ratings. The results I see for 1999 through 2001 are four stars for the driver and three for the passenger in the front impact test and five front and five rear in the side impact test for all three years. I must be looking in the wrong place because I don't see any one star ratings at all. I know you (or somebody) posted the link to those results before, I just can't find them.
With apologies to Joe Cocker and Lennon-McCartney, I'm trying to make sense of the safety discussions and the crash-test results/links. Thus far, Aztek (a stealth Montana?) has been presumed a bad safety performer, based on many recitations of the Montana's frailties in testing.
Yet this week, State Farm, one of the big boys of this sort of thing, lists the Montana as a TOP 36 PERFORMER, in conjunction with a new policy-pricing program. It's up there with the Volvos, big BMW's, Buick Regal (!), Jaguar and Mercedes, full-size vans and Suburbans, etc.
See this: "Following are two lists: State Farm's 36 "best-rated vehicles" referred to above and the vehicle safety discount and physical damage index for all 2001 makes and models.
You're so called facts are merely your own opinion, which mean nothing to me! I bought the Aztek because I like it and the majority of the people I know and speak with like it too! And no topgn I don't live in Florida and I know how to vote which is probably more than you know how to do!!
I wouldn't get too excited over that State Farm rating. Why? Well, if you look, the nearly identically sister vans (Chevy Venture/Olds Silhouette) received a much lower rating than the Montana. This indicates that there are other factors at work here.
What we need to do is to wait for the IIHS 40mph offset crash test results for the Aztek. I have no idea when or if they intend to crash test this vehicle, but if and when they do, it will be most interesting.
I don't really pay too much attention to the NHTSA 30mph front test since it is not a good test of the vehicle's structure. It is entirely possible for a vehicle to receive 4 or 5 stars in the NHTSA test and yet do poorly in the IIHS test (ex. Nissan Pathfinder, for example). However, if it does well in the IIHS crash test, it will most definitely do well in the NHTSA test as well (4 or 5 stars).
Hope this helps! Drew/aling Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
A fact is something measurable; like the number of sides to a triangle. Saying something is ugly is purely subjective and thus, not a fact.
As for the Aztek being ugly, that's just your reflection you are seeing. My Aztek is sweeet!
Resale is not a problem, if you don't intend to sell it. How many times to I have to mention that? Keep your beamer, I'll keep my Aztek, and I won't say that you are a pompous as_ because you are trying to convince a whole bunch of people that you know better than us. Are you a liberal? With your intense desire to dictate, and berate people that you think are not capable of understanding what you think you are saying, I believe you are. You sound just like Al Gore and all those tobbaco hating, animal exploiting, everyone needs to be protected liberals.
Oh and as for the link to the crash photos - it looks like a crash! It looks to me like a big wheeled vehicle hit an Aztek and really messed it up! Bummer. So what is it that I am supposed to be able to tell by this?
As for the Tracker getting all those stars, wow! I can't imagine that little tin can getting all those stars, kinda defies the laws of physics (Specifically laws about mass and energy dispersion). Did they use the same sled? Or was it outcome based testing? Maybe the person doing the test felt like you do about the Aztek and wanted to decide for everyone what they should be driving - let's not forget this is the Klinton era.
As for Sporin, why are you being such an incorrigable miscreant? Why is it that because we have made a choice that you don't agree with, you make pitiful attempts at mocking us? I say pitiful because no matter how much you try I will still be an Aztek owner. My question for you is: Why are you here? I mean, you own little foreign cars, don't you have a life? I mean can't you find anything better to do then to try to make light of other people? GROW UP!
As I was saying, and confirmed by drew . . . A vehicle may do well in one test and poorly in another and if the wind blows the wrong way my hair gets messed up. That is about how much sense some of these tests seem to make.
I am in the process of reviewing both of thoese tests with some fellow MENSA members. One says that he believes that the discrepancies need further review. He is going to review their methodology. I will keep you updated.
My aren't we touchy? I am so glad that you have a wonderful car, I really am. And I am sure that you are not the butt nuggett you sound like here. You are probably a nice guy.
So why are you here and not driving your wonderful clients around in your used BMW which cost 9,000 more than my Aztek GT?
And ooh you THINK you have a better job than I, and this makes you somehow morally superior?
I would opine to the contrary, you seem ignorant, boorish, pushy and holier than thou. You seem to think that because you drive clients around, you are better than someone who might work at BK. Well I would rather associate with someone who works at BK that is not so churlish and opinionated.
It's funny how you come here and brag about your "ultimate driving machine" BMW in a SUV forum. Why are you here anyway? Nothing better to do with your time?
Comments
I'm curious, Why do you think it's not selling?
You think we're all meanies but the matrket place seems to agree with us.
Speaking of turkeys, like the Aztek, Happy Thanksgiving!
It's NOT normal, it's not an SUV, It's not based on ancient styling cues ( like PT Cruz)
It's not MACHO,and it's not glamorous (like Lexus SUV), and it's not cheap!
I'm also ready to say it's not pretty, but form follows function and it really is JUST a funky mini-van no matter what Pontiac say's. The mistake is to try and tell us it's something it's not like a great indie film that get's sucked up into Hollywood marketing and they try to fit it into some standard demografic and suddenly the commercials don't reflect the film at all. I don't really need an SUV but if I need a mini-van but don't want to look like a suburbanite driving a 4-wheel living- room full of kids watching Pokemon on the pop-down video screen, it might be for me.
I could care less if Pontiac hardly sells any of them - that would actually be a selling point for me. I'd say a slightly used, fully loaded Aztec GT may just be our next hauler vehicle. My next choice is another Eurovan, but at $35k+ I think I'll pass.
1) I have a granddaughter.
2) Gonzo, which would you rather have, your VW or an Aztek in a crash?
3) As for PT Cruisers: They look cool, they ride ok, but have no power. I have test driven them. I expect that they will be like the beetle, very available in a year or two.
Also consider wrapping yourselves in bubble wrap if this is such an issue for you. I had a friend that was with me in the US Army. He and I were in the Ranger Bn. We did all kinds of dangerous things. However, he spent about half of his pay buying all sorts of health food. He was a very healthy man. He served in several hot spots with me and eventually got out. Three days after he got out he got backed up by a garbage truck. Moral of the story is CARPE FRIGGIN DIEM.
As for 95 wrangler, I am sorry to say this as I know it is a bit argumentative, but why do you start your user name with your IQ? The beautiful thing about this country is that we are free to buy something that others may not like. Or in other words, some people like vanilla ice cream, some people like chocolate or any of at least 29 other flavors that I can think of. Oh and as for another claimed "ugly" car and it's current worth . . . How much do you think an Edsel goes for these days? And if you know anything about it, it was also a feature laden vehicle, way ahead of it's time.
You and gonzo are using a non seq. argument in that a vehicle sales rates on e-bay is no indication of it's worth. I would conclude that all of those people selling them on e-bay is an indication of people's desires to rid themselves of them at a time when the uninitiated can be taken advantage of.
Buy!
Oh, and as for the safety of volkswagens... I drive a 2000 passat and I suggest you look at these two pictures... one of a 2000 Montana (Aztek) and one of a 2000 Passat. They should speak for themselves.
Montana (Aztek):
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/96026.htm#2
Passat:
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/98002.htm#2
Good luck to you
You seem to have some kind of axe to grind. You obviously don't like the Aztek. You also obviously don't own one.
As for some nut hitting me, poop occurs. I have no control over what happens out there. If it did happen, I would be hurting; however, I wouldn't blame the vehicle, rather I would blame the person who caused the accident.
Christopher Reeves was riding a horse when he fell off, does he think we need safer horses?
Risk is endemic to life, there is no getting around that. I don't live my life worrying about every little thing that might happen. Kismet, Karma, fate or the Norns, whatever you want to call it, it simply is.
The Taoists and the Vikings had a similar belief that, "A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero but one." So do I live my life worrying about a meteor hitting me in the head? And then as I walk out the door, do I worry that some gnat may have some strange strain of virus that will kill me?
That also doesn't mean that I don't need to take some reasonable precaution, but not to the level that you seem to. But then again, this is a Free Republic, and you can do what you like.
As for the PT Cruiser, again, a cool vehicle. The problem I had with it is that I am 6'1" with 54" shoulders and found it too small. I also didn't like the fact that I had to stand on it to get it to go.
I was not implying that the e-bay sales were because it was a dud, rather, I was playing devil's advocate to stress the point that you reinforce, 11 sales on e-bay does not constitute a scientific study.
And about the VW, I was pointing out that a lot of people who bought them for a lot of varied reasons, changed their mind. People have differing reasons and considerations when buying a new car, for some resale value is important, to me it isn't. My last new vehicle was an 83 Ford Ranger that I had until the day it died. It took a garbage truck hitting it to kill it - and it had 385,000 miles on it when it went. So if I have to wait 5 elections, and the car is still around, I will have a rarity.
Joe
Kelm: "As for the front crash test results I am very curious" WOW I hope you do not find out the hard way ...Like someone hitting you! The Aztek is based upon the same platform as the Montana, just look at the pictures in post # 284 ( they speak for themselves.. I just hope you do not have a family .
By the way, in South Florida the Azteks are now selling at INVOICE.. Hey in couple years your Aztek might be a great bird bath...!
Are people actually buying new cars in Florida? I thought all their time was taken up by figuring out how to vote in a presidential election!
So overall, the Aztek did okay, but not quite as good as the minivans.
Hope this clarifies things!
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
It is obviously related to the Aztek . It looked pretty nice, Kind of a acura MDX combined with equal parts Montana and Mercury Mountaineer.
I mentioned to a buick guy that is seems related to the Aztek. He replied that they are related but "Ours wasn't designed by teenagers"
What you say is true, our lives, health and well being are very important. But, there are several things to consider here. It is my life, and my choice. You are probably also vehemently against smoking and are pro helmet laws, and that is fine. Live your life, enjoy! Don't expect me to live mine by your standards. It seems that society wants everyone to be 100% safe, 100% of the time.
I eat steak and eggs over easy, do you decry that also?
By your standards, we should all be driving M-1 Abrams tanks, I hear that they have tremendous impact ratings.
There are suppose to be some other spinnoffs with a little variance. Saturn is suppose to have a version a la plastic body panels and optional 4-cyl? ugh... There is also suppose to be a Snaab version with a higher output Snaab V-6. Saturn actually had their version on display at the Bayside Expo center last month. It looked pretty beefy with some slick 17" wheels!!! The styling is pretty conservative, front end resembles an sl-series. So even if the Aztec bombs (like it seems to be)the platform is not dead.
Montana/Aztek:
http://www.euroncap.com/details.php3?id=vauxhall_opel_sintra_1998
Toyota:
http://www.euroncap.com/details.php3?id=toyota_picnic_1999
Again, a picture is worth a thousand words. If you don't care about the crash worthiness of a vehicle, then you might want to look at it another way: Do you want to give your money to a company that cares so little about the safety of its customers? Hope this helps.
the front rating was 5-star and the rear, 3 star.
Front crash ratings from NHTSA are due in December.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/graphics/2001/aztek-s.jpg
I wonder what those same tests will show about the Kia, Trackers . . . . Then, I also want to say that I bet my Aztek does better in a crash than my two rebuilt RX-7s. And although I drive defensively, I don't drive the vehicles to accidents, I do what I can to avoid them.
The fact of the matter is that I have now heard from about 50 Aztek owners at aztek@therightwing.com. I have not heard one complaint about the Aztek. And in answer to your question, I haven't heard from any unlucky aztek owners that have been in either head on accidents, or side struck ones. I honestly pray that I never do, because I hope that noone has to go through it.
Joe
According to the NHTSA, the Kia Sportage got 3 star front crash ratings to the Montana/Aztek's 1-star. Also, the 2001 Chevy Tracker received a 5-star rear side-impact rating compared to the 2001 Aztek's 3-star. I hope this clears up any confusion as to the safety of these vehicles. As for "driving to" accidents as opposed to "Avoiding" accidents: True, you do have to be a defensive driver... but there are cases where avoiding an accident is an impossibility. I only pray you never have to experience that feeling of helplessness. Make an educated decision before you purchase any vehicle. Also, there was mention above thaby jrbrowzer that the aztek is the best driving/riding of all of the suv's (3) he's owned. This is not suprising because SUV's (with the exception of the nissan pathfinder and a select few) are based on truck chasis. The aztek is NOT an suv... it is a minivan, therefore it is more related to a car than a truck.
As for lslv8, MOST of us do like the Aztek except for jmatero who has some god awful axe to grind! And a few others who simply dont like the looks of it. Hey everyone is entitled to their opinion!
1. The Aztek is UGLY..
2. It's platform is based upon the UNSAFE GM
Montana.
3. You will lose your As_ when it comes to
resale.. According to "Intellechoice" The
Aztek will lose 50% of it's value in just
two years..
4. IT IS NOT A S.U.V... It is a B.U.V...But Ugly
vehicle or at the very least a Minivan with
a camping option.
P.S. Hey Kelm Get off jmatero's back..!!
He is one of the few people here providing facts and pictures to back his statements.
Again, most normal people do not like the Aztek , it has not even come close to target numbers sold for GM. Hey I bet you people who own a Aztek are the same type of people that cannot punch a hole in a election card here in FLORIDA...
OH one last thing.... GO BUSH...
Gole take it like a man and quit your crying..!!
You just make their lifes more miserable and put on offensive.
BTW Gore is not a man.
The machines(computers) are controlling every detail of our lives, why not the politics?
(a very scary projection).
A: Buying one at full sticker when they first came out.
:-(
Thanks,
Todd
Montana Crash Results:
http://www.scottvw.com/forum/Forum5/HTML/000021.html
http://www.euroncap.com/details.php3?id=vauxhall_opel_sintra_1998
Aztek Side Crash Results:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/cars/1717.html
Montana Crash Results:
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/96026.htm
With apologies to Joe Cocker and Lennon-McCartney, I'm trying to make sense of the safety discussions and the crash-test results/links. Thus far, Aztek (a stealth Montana?) has been presumed a bad safety performer, based on many recitations of the Montana's frailties in testing.
Yet this week, State Farm, one of the big boys of this sort of thing, lists the Montana as a TOP 36 PERFORMER, in conjunction with a new policy-pricing program. It's up there with the Volvos, big BMW's, Buick Regal (!), Jaguar and Mercedes, full-size vans and Suburbans, etc.
See this: "Following are two lists: State Farm's 36 "best-rated vehicles" referred to above and the vehicle safety discount and physical damage index for all 2001 makes and models.
http://www.statefarm.com/media/release/list2.pdf
So to my question: what gives? A good design? Driven only by soccer moms, and never over 50 mph?
Just wondering.
What we need to do is to wait for the IIHS 40mph offset crash test results for the Aztek. I have no idea when or if they intend to crash test this vehicle, but if and when they do, it will be most interesting.
I don't really pay too much attention to the NHTSA 30mph front test since it is not a good test of the vehicle's structure. It is entirely possible for a vehicle to receive 4 or 5 stars in the NHTSA test and yet do poorly in the IIHS test (ex. Nissan Pathfinder, for example). However, if it does well in the IIHS crash test, it will most definitely do well in the NHTSA test as well (4 or 5 stars).
Hope this helps!
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
As for the Aztek being ugly, that's just your reflection you are seeing. My Aztek is sweeet!
Resale is not a problem, if you don't intend to sell it. How many times to I have to mention that? Keep your beamer, I'll keep my Aztek, and I won't say that you are a pompous as_ because you are trying to convince a whole bunch of people that you know better than us. Are you a liberal? With your intense desire to dictate, and berate people that you think are not capable of understanding what you think you are saying, I believe you are. You sound just like Al Gore and all those tobbaco hating, animal exploiting, everyone needs to be protected liberals.
Oh and as for the link to the crash photos - it looks like a crash! It looks to me like a big wheeled vehicle hit an Aztek and really messed it up! Bummer. So what is it that I am supposed to be able to tell by this?
As for the Tracker getting all those stars, wow! I can't imagine that little tin can getting all those stars, kinda defies the laws of physics (Specifically laws about mass and energy dispersion). Did they use the same sled? Or was it outcome based testing? Maybe the person doing the test felt like you do about the Aztek and wanted to decide for everyone what they should be driving - let's not forget this is the Klinton era.
As for Sporin, why are you being such an incorrigable miscreant? Why is it that because we have made a choice that you don't agree with, you make pitiful attempts at mocking us? I say pitiful because no matter how much you try I will still be an Aztek owner. My question for you is: Why are you here? I mean, you own little foreign cars, don't you have a life? I mean can't you find anything better to do then to try to make light of other people? GROW UP!
I am in the process of reviewing both of thoese tests with some fellow MENSA members. One says that he believes that the discrepancies need further review. He is going to review their methodology. I will keep you updated.
http://www.crashtest.com/explanations/nhtsa/usncap.htm
Good luck!
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
So why are you here and not driving your wonderful clients around in your used BMW which cost 9,000 more than my Aztek GT?
And ooh you THINK you have a better job than I, and this makes you somehow morally superior?
I would opine to the contrary, you seem ignorant, boorish, pushy and holier than thou. You seem to think that because you drive clients around, you are better than someone who might work at BK. Well I would rather associate with someone who works at BK that is not so churlish and opinionated.