Mitsubishi News

rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
edited January 2014 in Mitsubishi
Do any of you think over the last couple of years, and now what we've seen at the Detroit Autoshow, that Mitsubishi Motors has pulled off a small turn around and become a small profitable niche brand ?????

I personally believe that they are well on their way :)

Rocky
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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Give me a grade on the current products that are being sold now and another grade based on near production model coming out with the Lacer/EVO.

    We won't get to see the EVO Prototype in production yet for about a year :cry:

    Rocky
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,677
    but I sure do like the new 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer design. I wouldn't get an EVO anyway so that doesn't mean much to me.

    I want more information on the new Lancer base model and what Mitsu will offer on it as standard equipment, like ABS, EBD, airbags coming out your ears, etc. Also what will the base 5-speed model cost. That's news this Arizonan can really use. The new Outlander looks good on the surface but I really don't have any performance grading information on either rig at this time. I can tell from these two new Mitsubishi products that they're working hard on producing good solid automotives right now.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    iluv, I like the new Lancer also. I even like the base model but the EVO Prototype-X is my favorite. Perhaps this link will help you out pal. :)

    http://www.lancerproject.com

    Rocky
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,677
    are you getting snow over there in Tejas? Here in the greater Tucson area we have snow levels lowering by the minute but no snow on our ground yet.

    I agree that Mitsubishi is doing way better. And you'll notice that less and less Internet car freaks are calling for their U.S. dismissal? I know that what Mitsubishi would really like is more people springing for their own Mitsubishi and not just "pulling for them" to survive.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    is important, to be sure. From the press and pics, I'd say it looks good on paper, but it really has to offer something class-leading to do any good for Mitsu. That class-leading trait could be value if not performance, but it has to be on top in something.

    The Eclipse debacle is going take a lot of erasing. It's taken this long to get sales numbers back up to 2003 territory. The coupe that was supposed to float Mitsu's boat would be a serious albatross but for fleet sales.

    I like Mitsu, but if they're going to stay serious in NA, they really have to get an edge in some mainstream category and hold it.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    looks like a winner to me!
    Supposed to hit dealerships in March.
    We(spouse and myself) are hoping to see one at the Columbus, OH autoshow in Mid-March( check it out throughly, w/o a sales rep breathing down our necks).
    Definitely going to go test drive one this Spring!

    take care/not offense.
  • derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    Rocky, "reborned" is not a word. I have no idea how anybody could think it is a word, as it both looks and sounds ridiculous. The word you're looking for is "reborn"

    And no, I don't see Mitsubishi becoming any more than a niche player in the US market. It's never really been as popular as Toyota and Honda, even during the glory days of the Eclipse and the Diamond Star Motors operation. Sales will increase, sure, with the more mainstream Lancer and Outlander and that will save them from total obscurity, but they won't be vying for sales spots with Toyota, Honda or even Nissan.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,556
    This may be a dumb question but what Eclipse debacle? I know that the GS was panned by Consumer Reports but the rest of the auto press gave somewhat favorable reviews. In looking at the performance specs it seems to handle well for a FWD and has pretty good power in the GT. Most of the bashing I see on these forums seems to come from the tuners who wish it was an AWD turbo that weighs 2800 pounds. Or are you referring to the lackluster sales which I gather are about half what Mitsu had hoped. BTW, I notice Edmunds says there is $2000 cash back on the GT.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "And no, I don't see Mitsubishi becoming any more than a niche player in the US market. It's never really been as popular as Toyota and Honda, even during the glory days of the Eclipse and the Diamond Star Motors operation. Sales will increase, sure, with the more mainstream Lancer and Outlander and that will save them from total obscurity, but they won't be vying for sales spots with Toyota, Honda or even Nissan."

    I agree they will not be vying for Japanese Big 3 customers but I think sales will go up in the next 3 years. In my opinion it will take them years and years to garner respect like Honda and Toyota. I was reading an article in which Mitsu's sales goal in the US by 2010 was to reach 170K units a year in total sales. In my opinion they might reach 140K-145K units by 2010. On a down note Nissan's luxury Infinti brand outsold Mitsu in 2006(Infinti sold 121K units vs Mitsu 118K units in the US.)

    Mitsu;s current model mix:

    The Outlander looks alot better than the last generation model on the outside. In my opinion the current Outlander it looks to be the size of the 4 Runner or the Honda Pilot at least from what I saw on the outside. I thought the Outlander was supposed to compete with the Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4. The 2006+ Eclipse despite weighing more than enthusiasts would like is alot more respected than the 2000-2005 models. The Galant needs a redo ASAP with a better and a much more clean looking appearence bu that won;t come until the 2009 model year I think when a new generation should come out. I mean in 2006 the Galant sold 23K units which is far behind in sales even behind Mazda 6 sales of 66K units sold in 2006. In my opinion its going to be hard to boost Mitsu;s sales to 170K units by 2010 without a new Galant until 2009.

    Here's Mitsu sales in the US in the past 4 years:

    2002: 369K
    2003: 256K units(I think early in 2003 year they put a stop to the 0/0/0 deals.)
    2004: 150K units I think
    2005: 150K
    2006: 125K

    In my opinion too Mitsu needs a better dealer network too. I mean there is only 1 Mitsu that is close to my house. The other Mitsu dealer that could be considered close by me is 40 minutes away and is hard to get too.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Mitsu sales went like this from 2002-2006 in the US:

    2002: 369K units
    2003: 256K units
    2004: 150K units I think
    2005: 125K units
    2006: 118K units

    I wrote 150K twice for model years 2004 and 2005 by accident in my last post.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    You pretty much covered the finer points!
    }-]
  • kronykrony Member Posts: 110
    Seems to me the biggest challenge is dealers. Here in the midwest you rarely see Mitsu carried by the large multi-brand dealers and almost never see a large standalone one. May be different on the coasts...without strong dealers a turnaround will be tough.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,677
    yeah, I dig the '08 Mitsubishi Lancer, too. I am interested on learning a whole lot more about it. That is one nice looking body style. Gorgeous front end and that little car is one that a spoiler does look good on. A lot of rigs are ruined by having a spoiler out back like that but not this Lancer. If the Lancer indeed looks like the one I've seen in pictures and that's not the new EVO(they are supposed to closely resemble each other)then count me in with interest.
    My wife and I will pay the Sportsman off about June, so driving the '01 Sportage 4x4 until it's wheels fall off enjoying no car payments will probably rule until it becomes imperative we get a new rig.

    And no, I'm not gonna get a used rig, either. Cars are getting so good and $15,000 will stilll buy a decent rig with a decent Warranty, so getting a used rig doesn't appeal to me. I'll be looking at the new Lancer, new Kia Optima, new '08 Chevy Malibu(I really like the new 'Bu in early looks at it on the net), new Suzuki SX4 crossover and sedan and the new Dodge Hornet. Maybe we'll be seriously ready to spend hard-earned pesos on a new car about the time the new Dodge Hornet arrives from China! I'll take it with that silver as a base color and some of those dark grey racing stripes heading right down the center on both sides. Coolio topped off with an Iglesias! It would be cool if DCX did offer the new Hornet's standard with those racing stripes.

    Schweeet! :shades:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    there are stand alone Mitsu shops. My experience with them is that they have been a significant roadblock to moving the brand forward, regardless of density or lack thereof.

    Some of the worst... no, the all-out worst dealership experiences I've encountered have been at Mitsu stands. To an even greater degree than at some of the old Dodge shops, I have come away more confused than I went in, and feeling rather badly in need of a shower.

    And that was when they had seriously competitive product I really wanted!

    Hopefully that's been polished up a bit in the last few years.

    These folks need a hit here...
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,677
    all of this information does figure in when someone finds a new car they're interested in, indeed. My Kia service centers have been professional and courteous and have looked to take care of me and that's going to be hard to top. Figuring in the generous Kia Warranty and low initial pricing it may be hard to leave the brand come trade-in time. Yes.

    The new '08 Lancer looks very cool, though. Maybe a BBB search of local Tucson Mitsu dealers might be useful before even getting to test drive time. Seriously!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    They need to dump the Raider (and I think the sales figures support my argument). A lot of times, people buy Japanese trucks in order to get better reliability (perceived?) than their domestic competitors. The Raider is nothing more than a rebadged Dodge Dakota.

    The new Outlander is nice looking. Nice size, engine is about right for the vehicle (ample power), and the refinement looks good. However, it is now very similar to the Endeavor in size, so that would mean Mitsu needs to do something with the Endeavor. Since the Montero is now discontinued, maybe the Endeavor could be Mitsu's "capable off-road" vehicle. They have a strong history in off road racing with the Montero, so I think they should re-do the Endeavor to fill this niche. Where the Montero was a luxury, off-roader, maybe the Endeavor could be redesigned to compete with the Toyota FJ, or Nissan X-Terra???

    With the Eclipse, Mitsubishi is kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. The "tuners" want an AWD, turbo variant, but if this were available, it would compete too much with the EVO - it would probably even be at the same price point as the Evo in this configuration. However, something needs to be done about the V6, GT Eclipse, as it is too heavy of an engine, and too much power going to the front wheels, in my opinion. Maybe the Eclipse should ONLY be offered as a convertible (Spyder) version??? It could be offered with a larger 4 cyl, or a toned down 6 cyl that would make it more of a competitor for the Chrysler Sebring convertible.

    The new Lancer also looks very nice (from the pics I have seen anyways).

    Lastly, there is the Galant. It is never going to compete head on with the CamCords in terms of volume, but if it were redesigned with the same level of refinement as the new Outlander, and possibly the new Lancer seems to have, it could be a decent alternative.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    The Eclipse was never competition for the Evo, nor vice-versa. Coupe v. sedan and room for both.

    It's too easy to lay it off to the "tuner" crowd. I'm no tuner, and I'm one the biggest critics of the front-heavy, overly-padded exclusively FWD'er the thing has become. It lacks any of the sporting pretense that made it great to begin with. It has become just another entry in the boulevard cruiser class, with a price that makes it attractive, but little else to recommend it over other alternatives. It's an also-ran. Even with a much better skin than the last gen, it's too big, too heavy, and too trendily appointed.

    Mitsu made it very clear that the hoped to broaden the appeal of the model with the last generation, and it worked. Unfortunately, upping the target demographic of any model, while perhaps successful in the short term, is usually the kiss of death for a model or a line long term. This latest is just more motion in the wrong direction.

    Reality is that Mitsu is not a mainstream contender in NA, and won't be, and that they stand a much better chance playing to their strengths. What they lack in refinement, they can easily make up for in engineering, IMO.

    Aside: the genII Eclipse was a work of art outside and in. The cockpit ergonomics and styling make it my all-time favorite, regardless of the somewhat cheap quality of the materials used. I still regard it as the benchmark of what a driver's control center should be; everything in close proximity and where it should be, with very little doo-daddery and fluff. A close and cocooning space that focuses you on driving. Pure art. That's the kind of attention that made it so popular, and the attention was also focused on the appropriate running gear, which was the other half of a great equation. That the exterior styling was so succint and tasteful was merely icing on a great cake.

    I like the first look of the Lancer. I think a new home-run Gallant is a must.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    they need to offer something with the same hardware as the evo but a notch below. A competitor with the regular wrx, civic si, colbalt ss....etc. Right now, nobody offers a fastback style in that segment. I think the exterior style of the eclipse beats the other boxes on wheels, but they need something more suitable in the engine area and a big o honking v6 is not the answer.

    seeing how the fit, xa, xb, yaris are doing, I don't understand why they're not bringing their D5 hatch over. If DCX is courageous enough to bring the smart over using a brand new dealer network, what is stopping mitsu from bringing their more versatile D5? They have one of the lowest customer age anyways and should offer products their cusomter base wants. Not a supersized galant or cuv, but something smaller and easy to maintain, or with a performance edge.

    Go where there seems to be a gaping hole in the market: a cuv with the size, weight and cost similar to the 1st gen rav4 now that it's gone supersize and is not cheap anymore. The 5 door and a new lancer wagon (regular and hopped up flavor), where ford discontinued the focus 5 dr and wagon. And diesel engines
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Yeah we received 6-12 inches depending on where one lives. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    I do agree Mitsubishi, will be a "niche" player. I however do think they can be a profitable one in the future instead of losing money like they have. :)

    Rocky
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Some of the worst... no, the all-out worst dealership experiences I've encountered have been at Mitsu stands."

    Yeah Mitsu dealers in JD powers surveys for sales satisfaction are continuously ranked near the bottom of their surveys.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,677
    we got 6 inches of the stuff overnight. We heard on the Tucson news that the greater Tucson area usually gets snow every 5th year. It is cooolllllddddd over here in the desert, boys!

    Yeah, I like the current Eclipse but it's the new Lancer that could possibly make me trade in small SUV life for the 4-door sedan.

    Upon close inspection the new '08 Lancer doesn't seem to crimp on style in the back or front. And it's a little sedan that seems to be enhanced by it's spoiler, not spoiled by it.

    I need to see the actual production base Lancer and see what Mitsu is going to price it, spec sheet, list of features, etc. If I could pick up a nicely appointed '08 base model Lancer with a 5-speed manual tranny for around $15,000 (with a generous Kia-type Warranty) I might be enticed to snap and bite that one right up. It will have the new "world" engine of Mitsu's-Hyundai's and DCX's, 2.4L 4 cyl.

    Something tells me that all of that last paragraph could be in the realm of possibility. Mitsu can't afford to include Honda or Toyota pricing on complete re-design models in a market that they're really lurching to try and get back into.

    And the goofy 0-0-0 plan won't be repeated, either. :D

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    I mainly as a domestic fan do like the styling of the new Lancer. It seems to pack a bunch of features for the buck. I however personally am a huge fan of the EVO-X. I do think the Outlander is a nice SUV also but could use a bit more power. I do think Mitsubishi, is headed in the right direction for the first time in several years.

    Rocky
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,677
    Well, lookee here. Mitsu is turning their ship around and they are getting right to work on it. They're not outta da woods yet but I'm thinking they're going to make it. I am interested because I see product of theirs that I would enjoy...it's not a big stretch, really. Same with Suzuki, I need to research their dealer network more and see if they would "back up" the sale of the rig with good service after the sale.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Well I think Mitsu is in better shape than Suzuki. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Less raucous, more robust

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=44788?tid=edmu- - nds.il.home.photopanel..1.*

    iluv, you will like this article pal. ;)

    Rocky

    I think the Lancer/Outlander will prove to be critical parts for mitsubishi's turn-around. 10-20 years we will look at both of these vehicals and say they were the starting point. ;)

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAMember Posts: 15,261
    ...dealers have a bad rep around Philly. They market mostly to low-income folks with poor credit. The most notorious is the one at the Cherry Hill triplex that constantly airs screamer ads between Maury Povich and Jerry Springer. Good God, the salesman in the commercial even looks like a slimeball.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    Well the only car I've ever liked a lot from mitsubishi is the new 08' EVO-X. It's pretty upscale and I like the performance and "state of the art" technology.

    Rocky
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,556
    Lancer looks nice. Big style improvement. Why couldn't they put the Al engine block in the Eclipse 3.8 motor to save weight too?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    I'm not sure.....I'm not what one would call a huge fan of mitsubishi, and have a limited knowledge on their company. I just happen t like the EVO-X, and to appluad the efforts they've made in trying to reverse the slide. ;)

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Because the 2.0 in the new Lancer is the Hyundai-developed GEMA engine, while the Eclipse V6 is basically a set of MIVEC heads on the old 6G7x V6.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 14,014
    6G7x V6.

    Good engine when Twin Turbo's were added. ;)

    Rocky
  • ozzexozzex Member Posts: 10
    dudes, looks like nobody knows about mitsu, everybody gets tired saying that toyota and honda are the best, well let me tell you this, they suck big time. honda have like twenty years on f-1 and only one championship when they were togetjer with mclaren, so its basically mclaren champ, toyota have never won anything and they run on every single little class, from paris-dakkar, now lisboa-dakkar to F-1 and now nascar, they have millions in budgets and teams, mitsu runs only a few, no big budgets and they win everything, more than 6 time champions of WRC (world rally championship) lancer EVO form the 1 to the 10. 11 times Paris-dakkar with the montero, 6 on a row including 2006 that just finish, the new baja 1000 with the raider.
    whats the problem ladies and gentleman; "the tree big ones", toyota, honda and nissan dont want to share the market, even hyundai it's doing things better than those 3, how its the honda civic car of the year, that car its nothing, how the honda ridgeline its truck of the year, thats unacceptable, but people buy what they think its good, look at the tests on this page of for example: 07 outlander and 07 rav-4, mitsu its way better, more features and specs, but where a spec of the outlander its almost, i mean fractions of difference of any spec form the rav-4, rav-4 get excellent or very good and outlander gets good or normal, for me toyota and honda sucks, nissan not that much, look at recalls from the eclipse 06 they have what 3 i believe, 06 civic have like 12, so people comon, dont let yourself be tricked and your mind poisoned. Any mitsubishi car will destroy the same class car on toyota or honda, and if you get it tunned, then get ready to kick some as...s :mad:
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    ozzex, man, two words:

    Spell
    Check

    Other than that, we all know Mitsu has engineering prowess in spades, and every now and then they seem to know a good price point.

    Fact is, occasionally their execution and quality control are dicey, and they usually don't have the most sophisticated or refined offerings. End result is that their regular passenger offerings have been lacking in value, refinement, styling and efficiency, and that, other than some of the EVO experience now and the Eclipse experience of nearly ten years ago, we haven't seen bupkus from them to achieve any solid spots on the leader board.

    Add to all that a dealership network that makes "Girls Gone Wild" look wholesome, and they have some ground to make up.

    Frustrating, because they really can put it all together from time to time. '97 Eclipse GSX, for example, IMO.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Are you kidding your saying Honda has done nothing. Look at their sales. I am a honda fan and your saying Hyundai has done more than Honda? Hyundai sure they are competitive now but look at what Honda has done since the 80's. Their only YTD date losses in sales in the US were 1991-1993 in the past 2 and a half decades. Hyundai just stepped into being competitive in the US market 6 years ago as far as product goes and up to 1998(the first year they offered the 10 year warranty)they were pretty unreliable automobiles. I do like Mazda too but they are just starting to show something in the US market after years of rebuilding their line-up.

    The only thing I;m with you on is the Ridgeline winning truck of the year since I think the Ford F Series should have maybe won it. I haven;t compared the RAV 4 with the Outlander but the Outlander does look nice looking though.

    As far as winning races the Domestic Big 3 have won every NASCAR race for awhile but thats racing and yeah I do like NASCAR The Domestics market share has been down for the past 10 years vs the Japanese and lately the Koreans in the US. What I am trying to say is winning in different forms of racing doesn;t transalate into big sales numbers automatically.

    As far as any Mitsu product beating a Honda product I don;t know about that. Depends what you are looking for. If Mitsu is the product for you than its the product for you. For the record, I do like the exterior of the Endeavor alot better than the Pilot's exterior so I'm not biased towards Honda.

    As far as saying the Civic is nothing it has been a class leader(or one of the leaders)in the compact car game for years.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,556
    I don't know if winning rally races has any direct connect with people driving to work. That said I think based on experience Mitsu compares well with the other guys. The Mitsu engine in my Chrysler is the nicest running motor I have ever had. Also I have owned Toyotas which were total junk (maybe I got the token lemon). I agree that perception is reality and people think Toyota and Honda are superior. They will keep buying them until there a few scandals or exploding gas tanks.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    "The Mitsu engine in my Chrysler is the nicest running motor I have ever had."

    Which Chrysler? I owned a '95 Stratus with the Mitsu 2.5L six and a 2001 Sebring coupe with the 3.0L six, and both were smooth, capable and flawless, so my experience tallies with yours.

    I'm a Mitsu fan when it comes to engineering, but they've historically dropped the ball in so many other regards in North America that it's very difficult to keep cheering. One keeps hope, though...
  • ozzexozzex Member Posts: 10
    i'm sorry about my spell, english its my second language, if you you want i can write this in spanish or portuguese but i doubt you will understand, i want to see you speaking 3 languages, even worst, writing 3 languages, but you are right sorry about my spell, i just realize the spell check button.
    well, like you guys just said, honda it's not the best because they sell a lot, i dont hate honda or toyota, i'm just saying that the market in USA it's conducted by the media, people buy what "they" say it's the best.
    And the guy who said people dont need a rally winner car to go to job, now i ask you these, you dont need a formula 1 or a 5 ton tow capacity or a 8 passenger SUV either, or a nascar car right?. so why these companies invest all that money, simple answer: Reputation.
    About the civic: if they sell millions, well they can get the "Best seller car of the century" if you want, in USA of course. ok they are reliable, but not the BEST car, its too much even for honda.
    that car has no "art of the state engineering" at all.
    it's a good teenager or first car, or cheap tuning car but thats all, i want to know if any of the motor trend guys owns a civic, i bet you they dont, unless he get it for free as a trade to win the award.
    About honda has done nothing, well sorry but they haven't. Name one development of these company who has change the way of making cars. Answer: NONE.
    They have reliable cars, cause on the truck segment: they are NEW, on bikes they are good.
    What i mean it's, so many years leading the market and their flagship it's the civic. COME ON.
    They wont even let renault or citroen to come and compete, one (renault) F-1 champion; citroen, WRC former champion, Peugeot, WRC former champion.
    So you will be asking yourself, why they sell better than anybody? well american cars has to face that the muscle cars are good cars if you have the pocket to pay for a 10mpg car with terrible quality, and they were ugly until a few years, they have improve a LOT now, but they still expensive, and an EVO or STI can beat them on the truck anytime, with half size engine.
    Well these companies have something that its really important, GREAT i mean AMAZING marketing.
  • ozzexozzex Member Posts: 10
    Sorry about what i'm about to say, but NASCAR it's the most stupid car race in the world. Of course thats my opinion but i dont see any fun watching cars doing circles for hours, i mean whats the point, don't crash? Its so boring, F-1, Rally, Indy, gran turismo, even go karts, requires more ability and its lots funnier than NASCAR, that by the way its the only car racing that no one else in the world does, its pointless. You dont even need i pilot, just put a robot at the steering wheel.
    Seriously, what you prove? put a f-1 on a NASCAR race, it will destroy the track record, now put a nascar car at a F-1 track, won't be able to do the first corner.
    You need to watch f-1 or rally dude, there are really good drivers, the best of the world.
    Even Drag races has a point, who has the best acceleration? but nascar? no wonder why only domestics race on that crap.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    "Even Drag races has a point, who has the best acceleration? but nascar? no wonder why only domestics race on that crap."

    Obviously TOYOTA doesn't think like you...they are entering into the NEXTEL Cup Series this year. Sure NASCAR has a point, it is to see who can run the most laps the quickest. ;)
  • ozzexozzex Member Posts: 10
    "Sure NASCAR has a point, it is to see who can run the most laps the quickest."

    thats the point on every race, what i meant, its on development, and toyota get in nascar, like i said before, cause of marketing strategies.
    They want to get into the american roots, thats all.
    But i bet you, japan headquarters hate NASCAR, as the rest of the world.
    Why they run F-1 around the world, also rally, also bikes gp, even gran turismo, but Nascar stays here cause nobody else like it.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    ozzex -

    I think you're a little light on your F-1 History regarding Honda.

    Honda won it's first F-1 race in 1965 using a car of it's own design - both chassis and engine.

    Honda returned to Formula One in 1983 as an engine supplier and stayed in the sport for a decade, at various times teaming with Lotus, McLaren, Tyrrell and Williams. Honda engines were considered the ticket to Grand Prix glory due to their power, reliability, and winning track record. Honda supplied its engines to six constructor champions, as well as five driver championships (3 by Senna, 1 by Piquet, and another by Prost), before dropping out of the sport again. Honda-powered cars had won 71 Grands Prix, by the end of the 1992 season.

    Honda didn't return until 2000, and then with the unfortunate BAR team and the rather good Jordan team. The problems with these teams cars were mostly from chassis design and team organization, rather than from the Honda engines.

    On the other hand, I can't seem to recall a Mitsubishi victory in Formula 1 at all.

    As far as Mitsubishi street vehicles, as has been stated above - they're very nice designs, rather questionably executed. They have the potential to be great, but -frankly- aren't right now.

    That's why the topic topic of this discussion contains the word "Reborn" in it. You might also want to note the question mark after "Reborn".
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    well, like you guys just said, honda it's not the best because they sell a lot, i dont hate honda or toyota, i'm just saying that the market in USA it's conducted by the media, people buy what "they" say it's the best."

    I agree with your theory sort of because of think people do buy cars by reccomendations by friends and family or by word of mouth. I like Honda because I have been a fan since I was 14 years old(I am now 27)and I have criticized Honda at times on these boards for the most part dropping the ball on the 03 Accord restyle and also the 07 MDX is just ugly I think. I don't go by word of mouth or what somebody else says about a car in terms of what car I am going to buy. When I had a Mazda and I was working in an office setting people looked down on Mazda and say I should buy a Honda, Toyota, and Nissan because they hold their value better(which is true)or they didn;t know what a mazda even was.

    "About the civic: if they sell millions, well they can get the "Best seller car of the century" if you want, in USA of course. ok they are reliable, but not the BEST car, its too much even for honda.

    The Civic is not going to win any kinda best century of the car award. Are you kidding. We're talking about a compact car and not a Mercedes.

    "that car has no "art of the state engineering" at all."

    Wat do you mean state of the art? The Lancer doesn;t have any state of the art engineering either from what I am aware of.

    "it's a good teenager or first car, or cheap tuning car but thats all, i want to know if any of the motor trend guys owns a civic, i bet you they dont, unless he get it for free as a trade to win the award."

    I agree its good for a first car. The motor trend guys are older in the 30's-50's I think they'll probably own somrthing like an Accord or a chrysler 300.

    "About honda has done nothing, well sorry but they haven't. Name one development of these company who has change the way of making cars. Answer: NONE."

    Has Mitsu really changed the way of making cars? I don;t think so either.

    "What i mean it's, so many years leading the market and their flagship it's the civic. COME ON."

    Their flagship is the Accord to me.

    "Well these companies have something that its really important, GREAT i mean AMAZING marketing."

    Well obviusly they do they get the word of mouth around but than again I think Toyota had some of their worst advertising campaigns before their "Moving Foward" campaign.

    Your acting like Mitsu is a class leader in every segement. I mean they have good engines. I can take an arguement from a GM or Ford fan because of the abuse they take from Japanese Car Fans or even say Mazda vehicles are more competive than they were 10 years but you are talking about Mitsu here.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Of course thats my opinion but i dont see any fun watching cars doing circles for hours, i mean whats the point, don't crash? Its so boring, F-1, Rally, Indy, gran turismo, even go karts, requires more ability and its lots funnier than NASCAR, that by the way its the only car racing that no one else in the world does, its pointless."

    I used to watch Indy Car but once the IRL came in to me it ruined both Indy Car and the IRL. I think Indy Car is now called the Champ Car Series. There is no superstar drivers in Champ Car(formely called Indy Car.) In the earky to mid 90's you had Al Unser Jr, Bobby Rahal, Michael Andretti, Paul Tracy, Robby Gordon, and Emerson Fitipaldi. I just tuned off because Indy Car(now called champ car) lost my interest.

    F-1 I tried to watch it but it just doesn't interest me. Just the lack of passing each other just bothers me. I can watch motorcycle racing though.

    "Seriously, what you prove? put a f-1 on a NASCAR race, it will destroy the track record, now put a nascar car at a F-1 track, won't be able to do the first corner."

    Not everything is about how fast you can go. In NASCAR the fastest car doesn;t always win the race.

    "Even Drag races has a point, who has the best acceleration? but nascar? no wonder why only domestics race on that crap."

    I used to watch drag racing all the time in the mid to late 90's but I just don;t watch it anymore. I still like the sport though but just don;t watch it anymore. I have gone to an NHRA drag race 3 times. The drag races are really fun to go to too.

    As far as NASCArR goes that won me over in 1994. I was a Rusty Wallace fan forever until he retired. Now I have to root for Kurt Busch because he drives Rusty's car now.

    Rally-I have appreciation for what those guys do though despite not watching it. Robby Gordon races Rally sometimes I think. Thats a tough sport.

    I just spent a whole post on every racing series. Lets get back to talking about Mitsu.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Why they run F-1 around the world, also rally, also bikes gp, even gran turismo, but Nascar stays here cause nobody else like it."

    F-1 has really never been popular in the US. NASCAR has a big fan base in the US.

    "But i bet you, japan headquarters hate NASCAR, as the rest of the world."

    That comment is a little drastic.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "development, and toyota get in nascar, like i said before, cause of marketing strategies.
    They want to get into the american roots, thats all."

    Remember winning on Sunday does not mean automatically sell on monday. Look at my most before about the Domestics winning every NASCAR race for years but that hasn;t transalated(for the Domestic 2.5) into keeping their 70% market share of the US market that they had in 1997.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,556
    1997 Cirrus. Same car as your Stratus. 2.5L engine. I like to keep cars until they die of old age. My record so far is a 1969 Plymouth that ran 158000K and took all the teen-age abuse I could throw at it before it finally rusted out. The winter salt in NY really eats cars. I'm hoping the Cirrus will last at least that long...seems to be a bit more rust resistant than other cars I've owned, especially my Totota.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    I think the Mitsu-powered Cloud cars were way in front of their class in most repects when thy hit in '95, and that little 2.5 was a big part of it for me. What miffed me was the utter lack of investment in the platform as it aged. They failed to update it to keep it competitive.

    Subsequent iterations have been nothing to write home about, IMO.

    A rust-resistant Chrysler, eh? Unheard of dear boy, unheard of... ;)
  • ozzexozzex Member Posts: 10
    I use to live in Peru (south america for the retards), and we have japanese and asian cars before usa, but we had before only american cars, my grandpa had like 6, then came asian cars and took over the market together with the european cars, we have Toyota, Nissan, Mitsu, Hyundai, Daewoo, Kia, Susuki, Sang yong (Asia)Volkswagen, Audi, Bmw, Mercedes Benz, Alfa romeo, Volvo, Renault, citroen, Peugeot, Seat, Ferrari, Lambo, Jaguar, etc. (europe)
    And imagine that now we dont have USA cars, only ford and chevy. And a few, very few chryslers.
    Now imagine that asian cars and europeans are under same categories prices, thats why i was telling you that they dont want that to happen here or bye bye domestics.
    Well, my first car was a 82' nissan sunny, it was a good car but automatic transmission, by the way i hate automatic, it takes away all the fun, real cars use Stick shift.
    Then i bought a 92 hyundai sonata, by the way the sonata exists since 86 or before. This sonata had a mitsubishi engine, i swear like 200,000 miles and nothing never broke, it was really fast, never major serviced or nothing, i'm telling i pushed that motor to the limits, it was a really BAD [non-permissible content removed], not because it was big or stupid fast, it was built to last forever, when i left Peru the car still working like new, on the way i bought a 89 Ford Bronco Eddie Bauer from an american that worked on the american embassy, in 2 years and less than 100,000 miles i had two replace pretty much everything. My Nissan broke like 10 times too, my aunt peugeot the same, my friends cars also, bmw's, benz's, alfa's, but my hyundai with lancer engine never did. That car was the S*h*i*t
  • te1963te1963 Member Posts: 13
    I do think that Mitsu is in the middle of turning things around. Last spring I looked at a Galant. I was impressed with the power and looks, but my wife vetoed me and we ended up with an Accord EX. In December, we bought a 2000 Eclipse GT for our 17 year old son. Great car. Lots of power and looks. Just for fun, our son tried out an 07 Eclipse GT. He actually preferred his 2000. He said the 07 felt too big on the outside and too cramped on the inside. It is a really sharp looking car though. I really like the new Outlander and the 08 Lancer looks to be a great product. I'm looking forward to a new Galant. Maybe I can trade my Sienna minivan on one.
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