Cadillac Escalade

microrepairmicrorepair Eastern MassachusettsMember Posts: 508
Not that I'm a GM or Caddy fan, but does anyone
have any information on the new Cadillac SUV that
is rumored to be coming out later this year?
Cadillac has done pretty well with the Seville so
maybe they can do something right with the SUV?


  • CadillacManCadillacMan Member Posts: 5
    Go out to your local GMC dealer and take a look at the new Denali (high line, luxury Yukon). Picture more wood, even nicer features inside, a color-coded, matching grill (like the new STS) with the Cadillac Crest embedded. Basically, there you go...
    If GM can earn some of the market share the extremely popular Navigator has earned, we'll be real happy. We're looking forward to having it in our showrooms late this fall/early winter.
  • microrepairmicrorepair Eastern MassachusettsMember Posts: 508
    If that is the Cadillac game plan, they won't even get me into the showroom. I was hoping they would use stuff from the STS parts bin and come up with something competitive to the Mercedes ML320 or Lexus RX300. I have absolutely no interest in an oversized, overstuffed, over-leathered, overpriced Chevy or Ford wearing a Cadillac or Lincoln badge.
  • yamanyaman Member Posts: 113
    I agree with microrepair. Cadillac should be aiming at the ml320, lexus end of the market. An overpriced yukon won't sell.
  • pomposopomposo Member Posts: 1
    The overall design of the Yukon needs to be redesigned. What Lincoln did on the front and rear end of the Expedition to come up with the Navigator Cadillac has to do to the Yukon, even the Denali so as to give the buyer the sense of exclusivity. Why do you think the Navigator is selling so well?
  • microrepairmicrorepair Eastern MassachusettsMember Posts: 508
    I'm glad to see at least a couple of other people out there agree that there is too much "badge" upscaling going on. For all that extra money, gimme some extra value, not a fancier emblem on the hood.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    As expected, the 1st reviews off the news wires today by auto journalists, indicate another rather average effort by Cadillac. Been there. Done that.

    Will GM ever get it right and set the world on fire with an exceptional product, or will they just continue to set themselves on fire?

  • CadillacManCadillacMan Member Posts: 5
    C'mon guys,
    Get real; grill, fenders, wood package, "badging" and "overstuffed leather" is what put Lincoln on the map... They were floundering to say the least.. Due to the Navigator's market share in luxury sport uts, Lincoln stands to outsell Cadillac for the 1st time in something like 50 years... All Cadillac is attempting to do (a little late) is react and respond with similar packaging... The Expedition was fine, but the Navigator was "better"... Yuppie Ford freaks will buy it = The Yukon is fine, but the Escalade will be "better"...and Yuppie GM freaks will buy it... Don't believe me? Walk in to a Cadillac dealership and ask/inquire about the Escalade - they've all got interested and excited people on a waiting list... In time, and who knows what wrinkles GM will add in to sweeten the pot, there's talk that the ever popular Northstar 32V V8 will enter in to the mix... People in droves have stepped up to the plate for the Navigator - they'll do the same for the Cadillac Escalade.. Preliminary pictures and info I've seen tell me it'll sell in its pier group...and in time, just like the all new 98 STS, impressive technology will find its way to the Escalade... As for the new Lexus & MB sport uts... the jury is still out... and as for side by side comparisons to the Escalade, they'll all have their pros and cons.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788

    Sorry to disagree with you. Even though the Navigator may be a sales success, for being the "premier" SUV statement that Ford could come up with, it does absolutely nothing in terms of moving the engineering/technology benchmark forward. Intellectually (and from every other possible standpoint), it is nowheres near as intriguing as the new Mercedes ML-320/430.

    The Escalade may (or may not) repeat the same sales success of the Lincoln. It certainly won't add to Cadillac's so-called image "the Standard of the World". It's just another badge-engineered model added to the already over-bloated GM model lineup.

    Besides, what does this do to the GMC Denali's image as supposedly the "premier" SUV from the General. It's just the latest example that crisis-management is what controls GM.

  • bigfurbigfur Member Posts: 649
    Being that I work in a GMC dealership I know for a fact that the sales people are really pissed off at GM for this. The Denali was supposed to be THE SUV of GM. Why does GM screw themselves over like this, its AFU.
  • JTRICKELJTRICKEL Member Posts: 1

  • microrepairmicrorepair Eastern MassachusettsMember Posts: 508
    I guess my values must be a little warped. For some reason, I don't think of "wood trim", "leather upholstery", "gold-plated badges", "memory seats with 6 settings", "headlight wipers", "automatic day/night rear view mirrors", and other baubles as meaningful or "better" when it comes to a motor vehicle. I tend to think more in terms of 1) relibility, 2)durability (longevity), 3)ergonomic comfort, 4)handling response, 5)roadholding, and value for the money as more important criteria to use when choosing a motor vehicle. Of course, everyone can make their own choices based upon their priorities. Personally I won't spend 30-38K for a vehicle that is basically the same as a lesser stablemate selling for 22-26K. If the new Cadillac SUV comes with a Northstar engine instead of a GM/generic Chevy/Olds/Pontiac, then it's a start. If they throw in a sophisticated AWD & ABS combo similar to the ML320, then they're getting close to maybe parting me and my wallet.
    For the record, I admire many things about the MB ML320 and the Lexus RX300. However, they are not perfect either and I'm not proposing that all SUV's emulate those two. But there have to be ways to make the top-of-the-line models truly better than their cheaper siblings and therefore earn the right to charge a lot more money for them. The Lincoln Navigator is NOT better than the Expedition, it is just more expensive. It will not last longer, it will not climb steeper hills, and it will not visit the repair garage an less often. To many people it looks better and feels better, therefore let them spend the extra 10K for it. I won't.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788

    The only reason Mercedes will sell less than the Navigator, is because of production limitations. The ML320 has had a 9-12 month waiting list ever since it was announced. Once the DaimlerChrysler deal is completed that will probably change for the better.

    As for those trading in Mercedes ML's for something else - well, you can't please everybody.

    By the way, what is your definition of a "real SUV"? Most people in the know would say that term (SUV) originated with the Jeep; a vehicle that you just put down.

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788

    Your values are just fine.

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The current edition of Automobile magazine has a picture of the new Caddy SUV (aka Truck deVille) next to a new GMC Denali. Aside from a different mesh in the grille and the logos, they're identical. The Truck deVille has a bit more wood inside, and the OnStar GPS is standard. I'm sure it won't be long before we start seeing versions with padded vinyl roofs, whitewalls, fender skirts, and fake wire-wheel hubcaps.

  • jstirpejstirpe Member Posts: 1
    Navigator or Escalade ??
    I am currently leasing a Ford Explorer, but when the Navigator came out, it was love at first site. However, out comes the Cadillac Escalade and now we have some competition. Any advise as to which luxury SUV is really worth the $40,000 plus price tag ??
  • glenn2glenn2 Member Posts: 39
    what a joke
  • meredithmeredith Member Posts: 575
    Edmunds review of the...

    Cadillac Escalade and the Yukon Denali can be found at Luxury SUV Review.
  • PulpfictionadoPulpfictionado Member Posts: 9
    there's an ugly 1 here

    I'd expect greedy dogs like Datsun or Ford 2 dress up a regular SUV, slap another name on it, and jack up the price

    But when the general goes there .....
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788

    This is not the first time that the general has cannibalized other GM products ...and probably not the last time either.

  • azguyazguy Member Posts: 23
    GM makes very GOOD trucks!!!! I can't wait for the replacements of these vehicles but until they are out I am getting the Escalade. I think it is a kick to have the Caddy name on an SUV!!!! I am only leasing it for 2 years as I will be tired of it by then.and ready for a new designed Escalade. I am getting Silversand or white.
  • glenn2glenn2 Member Posts: 39
    It would be a kick alright azguy, to the face maybe. $48,000 for a Tahoe with a Caddy grill??what a waste money.
  • bostnwhalrbostnwhalr Member Posts: 128
    Now that the stock market is beginning to tank, it will be interesting to see how many people piss their money away on what is basically a dolled up Chevy Tahoe which in turn is a Chevy 1/2 ton truck with a back seat and cap. It's amazing!

    As for those that think the Navigator is it, you obviously love to spend money on fancy grills, chrome add-on's, etc. You have way too much cash so send me some.

    This Excalade/Navigator trend reminds me of the 1970's. Remember Opera Lights, chrome, fake convertible tops, spare tire carriers hanging from the trunk? Who needs engineering, responsive engines, cars that handle? This was when American car companies were at their worst. The cars stunk, but what glitz!

    I see the American manufacturers have not learned, but hey there are plenty of buyers waiting with deposit checks so who can blame them?

    Never underestimate people's ability for bad taste!
  • PulpfictionadoPulpfictionado Member Posts: 9
    Yes, it's criminal 2 call a Chevy a 'Lac
    and I am pissed about that
    however, Let's look at the

    It's not just the General & Hank doing this

    leighprice-how many 1971 Chevy Trucks have U seen on the road 2day? That's a rhetorical ?, but I no the answer is "several"

    rsholland, my problem is not W/ the cannibalization.

    Camaro/Firebird have always been the same car, but they've been about the same price

    Now, W/ this Denali/Envoy/Escalade Crap, they're throwing on some useless fringe (It has nothing 2 do W/ the purpose of the truck [that's what an SUV is supposed 2 be ]) and jacking up the price.

    They should just say "this is a CHEVY, damn it, and it's a truck. If U want a Vehicle that makes love to you, get a Jaguar. If U have work 2 do, whip out your *book."

    4get the elitist dogs; every 1else knows who the king is
  • SWCSWC Member Posts: 10
    What a goofy looking truck! Kind of reminds me of the old VW Beetles with the Rolls Royce front ends! (anyone remember those?)
  • techfoetechfoe Member Posts: 2
    If you're trying 2 say the caddy is ugly, you'll never be that right again!
  • arh1956arh1956 Member Posts: 14
    As far as looks go I have always thought GM had it right with their Full-size SUV's "Yukons & Suburbans" , and think the Denali is without question the best looking SUV on the planet ! I also have no problem with using the standard GM engines & drivetrains , but I cannot bring myself to part with 40K+ for anything with drum brakes ! Would a rear disc upgrade to differentiate it from the standard Tahoe be too much to expect for the $10,000 premium ? Come on GM help us loyal upscale buyers out , I don't mind paying more , but I've got to get something besides the look !
  • doctormacdoctormac Member Posts: 1
    if I had to part with anything close to 40k or more I never consider, american made..I would purchase true quality...LAND ROVER.

  • bostnwhalrbostnwhalr Member Posts: 128
    There is more to be said. Unless you are going to do serious off-roading, there is little reason to buy a Land Rover. Look at their forum. Lots of disappointed yuppies who bought one for image and can't stand the reliability problems. The people who swear by them do serious off roading. I assume you know that already.

    I agree that if I were spending over $40k, I would have trouble buying an American SUV. Over $40k, my vote is on the Toyota Land Cruiser. You get Toyota reliability, excellent resale value, decent off road capacity, etc.

    I recently rented a Chevy Blazer for a trip. What a piece of underengineered garbage. I'm sure the Tahoe is much better, but the Blazer does not make GM look like the engineering wonders of the world. No wonder you see low mileage 98's for $20k. No one wants them!

    Sorry for getting off the subject, but has anyone actually bought an Escalade or Denali? This forum is awfully quiet.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Anybody who buys a Tahoe with a "Cadillac" badge on the grille, and thinks they are getting superior product, is nuts.

    I have yet to read a road test (not a press announcement) on the Escalade that has had much positive to say about it. I believe it was Automobile magazine that stated something to the effect that: "Only in a SUV-hungry market, could a vehicle strategy like the Escalade exist." Edmund's was also very critical of the vehicle.

  • arh1956arh1956 Member Posts: 14
    I actually am very aware of all the reviews concerning the Denali , & Escalade ! They reflect the opinions & biases of the reporters testing these trucks & are of very little value to me , as I will drive & evaluate each vehicle myself ! I do enjoy the reports for the entertainment value they offer & appreciate that someone makes this info. available ! The Rover & Cruiser are no match for GM's SUV's for me !
  • bostnwhalrbostnwhalr Member Posts: 128
    GM is very fond of buyers like you, especially if you buy an Escalade/Denali. I don't have a problem with the Tahoe or Suburban, per se. They do what's expected. I just think it is funny that people would shell out $45+ for a Tahoe with a Cadillac badge. Of course, the Tahoe is simply a 1/2 ton Chevy pickup truck with a back seat and cap but that's a whole different discussion. But hey, everyone is entitled to buy what they want.

    It's no mystery why GM's marketshare has dropped from 50% to 31-32% in the last 20 years.

    In terms of whether the Rover and Cruiser are no match for GM's SUV, well everyone has different priorities. I won't argue about Rover, they have their own problems. The one area where GM has everyone beat is in the size of the Suburban. You can't buy a bigger SUV. If that is your priority, you are right.

    If you think the Blazer is the best SUV in it's class, then you definitely are a diehard GM lover and have never driven any other SUV.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788


  • arh1956arh1956 Member Posts: 14
    GM replaced the blazer with the Tahoe a few years ago ! I have a 99 ML 430 & feel it is the supreme SUV on the market ! But I also find the Denali an excellent choice ! I have driven & owned many brands of full-size SUV's "No Hummer" & find the GM's truly good trucks ! Driving one is the only way to know & I've got 240,000 miles on my 84 Suburban !
  • sbc1sbc1 Member Posts: 1
    Anyone out there have a Escalade or heard anything about it?
  • arh1956arh1956 Member Posts: 14
    Escalade is Re-badged Denali with a little nicer interior appointments & On-Star standard & free for a year ! It also offers a 4 year , 50K warranty ! Other than that it is a Denali in a couple of other colors !
  • CadillacManCadillacMan Member Posts: 5
    According to most of you I'm gonna starve...there will be no one willing to part with 45K+ for an Escalade...?
    WAKE UP!!
    The first, of many Escalades is expected in our showroom within the next week or so... Our waiting list must be a mirage right? Deposits (at full sticker price only) are numbering 50+... Don't you people get it? As with the Navigator - the Escalade appeals to people with unlimited (or close) greenbacks who say "I want luxury and service unsurpassed by the base models"... People, this isn't rocket science - There is a market niche and Cadillac is fulfilling the niche just as the Navigator has done... Remember Marketing 101? The people who purchase an Escalade CAN AFFORD IT!!
    A 2 or 3 year lease will account for 85% (projected) of the Escalade business we'll do... Over 50% of the leases will be one-payment leases. When the lease is up the newly designed, technologically improved Escalade will be out... Anything wrong with that logic? Maybe you conservative, careful, practical tire-kickers who analyize a car to the nth degree will all wait and see... and thats fine, but there are a lot of well-to-do (even rich) folks out there (giving a crap about what the stock market is doing) that want the wreath and crest TODAY... Look at the way GM/Cadillac has stepped up to the plate with the new STS... It is a player in an extremely competitive pier group. Forgive me, maybe I'm blinded by optimism and loyalty, but I've got a feeling we'll garner some of the market share of the MB and Lexus in due time. OK - go ahead - keep slamming the Escalade... I feel much better...
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788

    Having a lot of money doesn't necessarily equate with being smart. The Escalade will appeal to "traditional old-fashioned" Caddy folks. I doubt that there will be many "conquest" sales.

    Sure, it gives folks like you something to sell. However, after the initial "gotta-be-the-first-on-the-block-to-have-it-sales-rush" is over, it will turn out to be about as successful as the Izusu Hombre, the Suzuki X-90, the Acura SLX, as well a a host of other losers. It's just another Cimarron (or Edsel), only this time on steriods. It certainly doesn't do anything to help Cadillac's image as a premier maker of motor vehicles.

    Also... if Lincoln comes out with a pickup (as is predicted), will Cadillac also come out with one? What a joke!

  • bostnwhalrbostnwhalr Member Posts: 128
    Sorry CadallicMan,

    I don't mean to abuse your occupation and I agree that the STS is a fine piece of machinery, but unlike the Escalade, you can't get the STS in a different GM car with the same style and performance. That's my point. With the Escalade, you can and its called the Tahoe Yukon or Denali.

    Don't forget, GM was wishy washy about coming to market with it. They were not even going to do it and in a last ditch effort, decided to throw this Tahoe with On-Star and creamy leather on the market.

    As far as your waiting list goes, that's great! More suckers. And good commissions for you.

    As far as service goes, I'm sure your dealer provides excellent service, yet I'm sure there are other dealers that are not so great. By the way, does your service department have as much experience as a GMC or Chevy dealer servicing trucks? Didn't think so. Hmmmm....

    How's that resale value on Cadillacs. In most parts of the country, you can pick up a two year old caddy for 50% of original retail. Try that with a Mercedes or Honda.

    How's that Catera, the Caddy that spends way too much time in the shop. Really reliable, eh? Seen about 2-3 on the road in the past year. Really storming the market.

    You know why everyone is leasing an Escalade, because they don't want to take the depreciation hit. Guess how many people lease an M-Class, very few. And that vehicle still has a 6 month waiting list, more than a year after going on sale. Why? Because it's less expensive, better engineered and you can't buy a less expensive derivative of it at your Chevy store.
  • j35i1j35i1 Member Posts: 1
    the cadillac escalade is a very nice suv . i test drove it the other day it was very comfortable and when i went over speed bumps i barly felt them . I tink its way better then a navigator. On a navigator you would feel every bump on the road
    so if i were you i would buy a escalade.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788

    I'm also not a huge fan of the Navigator. However, at least the Navigator "appears" somewhat different than the Expedition. When it arrives with the DOHC 5.4 later this year, there will be much greater distinction between the Ford and Lincoln - which will help.

    As to your comments regarding the ride; remember these are trucks, not cars. I drove a Navigator when it was first introduced. My memory was the it was very comfortable and HUGE, and with a somewhat "floaty" ride. The name "Navigator" is apt. It felt like I was piloting a boat. I really have no desire to drive the Escalade. It's just not my cup of tea.

    As I have posted before, neither of these vehicles significantly advance the "state-of-the-art" for luxury SUVs. They're just more vehicular clutter.

    Let me also say - to set the record straight - I have no problem with Cadillac or Lincoln having an SUV (or pickup) per say. However, if they are going to make these models, and... because these are supposed to be two premium nameplates, make them "truly premium vehicles" in every sense of the word.

  • bostnwhalrbostnwhalr Member Posts: 128
    Cadillac Man,

    Sorry about being so harsh and picking on you and Cadillac. In New England, Caddy's aren't as strong in terms of sales. We have to deal with harsh winters, stuff like that. So, older folks got smart and moved to Arizona and Florida. That's why you don't see as many Cadillac's here.

    In terms of resale value, that's why they are probably lower in the North East. In fact, a used Cadillac in NE is a great buy! You could probably do gangbusters by coming here and buying low and sell them high in AZ. .

    By the way, I wasn't totally "anal". I do like the STS, nice piece of machinery.

    I was picking on the Catera because reliability has been a real problem according to long term reports I've seen. The car itself is good, but there have been serious reliability issues.

    As for the Escalade, I'll stop picking on it. This is America where we are free to buy what we want and also voice our opinion at the same time. If your customers like the Escalade then that's what counts, right?

    Peace my friend!
  • 94mx594mx5 Member Posts: 7
    Which is worse? Cadillac trying to sell a disguised Chevy, or the fact it took GM so long to jump on the bandwagon? Everyone else (Lincoln, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura) does it. Of course, if everyone else jumped off a bridge...? At least it's a GM product, not like Acura selling a rebadged Isuzu.
  • arh1956arh1956 Member Posts: 14
    Before anyone buys an Escalade see a GMC dealer my dealer says GMC is installing the OnStar free into the Denali's leaving the only discernible difference ; the warranties ! Cadillac 4 Yr./50K. , GMC 3 Yr./36K. & the Caddie is about 4,000 $$$ more ! Check at both dealers before you buy & good luck !
  • CadillacManCadillacMan Member Posts: 5
    arh1956 -

    Other differences on the Escalade include:
    1) Nuance perforated Leather seating (very much different and improved )
    2) Heated seats, front & rear
    3) Real zebrano wood trim / steering wheel
    4) Bose Accoustimas Entertainment Sound system
    5) Onstar SERVICE free for one year
    6) Cadillac Roadside assistance & free loaners
    during entire 4 year/50K warranty period

    Yeah - for 4 grand people need to do some soul searching - depends how deep your pockets are I guess...
  • bostnwhalrbostnwhalr Member Posts: 128
    Also comes down to dealer service in your local market area. The Cadillac customer treatment would more likely be better than at the GMC dealer. Then again, a GMC dealer would likely have more experience servicing trucks.

    I almost forgot, isn't GM coming out with a revised full size SUV based on the new 1999 Chevy "Truck" for a '00 introduction? Based on the positive views given on the pickup truck, it might be worth holding out. At that time, maybe GM will give the Escalade something to further differentiate itself in the marketplace (ie, better drivetrain/engineering refinement choices).

    As much as I am not a big fan of the Navigator for the same reasons as the Escalade, I think Ford is wise in deciding to exclusively install the 300hp 5.4L in it versus the Expedition.

    In my opinion, engineering/design superiority is a good reason to pay a premium for a product. For the Escalade to be successful in the long run, GM should think about what they need to do to separate it from the Denali and its lower cost brethrens.
  • arh1956arh1956 Member Posts: 14
    While the leather is different , I actually am well satisfied with the Denali's! The heated seats and the sound system on the other hand are exactly identical in both vehicles! The Denali has front seats with the seat and backs heated, and rear seats with the seat heated! The GMC dealer here is also a Cadillac dealer and gives loaners for both brands! To me the Wood Wheel and other assorted wood upgrades are nice, but the Denali is exceptional without them! I like both but the GMC seems a better value! If any spruced-up 15 year old platform is a good value at 43K+!
  • no_body_74no_body_74 Member Posts: 5
    Just wait untill the 2000 model year. GM will have all thier SUVs based on the new truck platform. This will also give GM time to actually plan a new Escalade instead of just saying lets slap this part here or there on a Denali and call it a Cadillac. GM will really be moving foward in the next couple of years. As far as Cadillac goes there will be the redesigned Catera built in the U.S. and made for the U.S. market unlike the current generation Catera. For those of you who like the Lexus RX 300 or other SUVs based on a car platform Cadillac will produce a "LAV" or "Luxury Activity Vehicle" based on the new Catera metioned above. It will be an all wheel drive SUV that should come out in 2001 or 2002. There will also be a new rear wheel drive platoform that GM will use throughout its divisions. I think all Cadillacs will be rear wheel drive in the future except for the Deville which is scheduled for a redesign in 2000. I don't know the reasoning behind the Deville staying at FWD. Maybe CadillacMan can explain this. Anyway like I said GM is really moving foward.
  • CadillacManCadillacMan Member Posts: 5
    Nicely put no_body_74

    The main reason for Deville staying front wheel drive is because of it's goal of a luxury ride and not a "performance-oriented" ride. Measuring the "pros and cons" of front wheel drive vs. rear wheel drive for this segment, at this time, GM will elect to keep the Deville FWD.
    Additionally, less torque steer will be noticed on the new Deville when the new platform will be introduced in 2000, based on stiffer beaming of the new Seville for the 98 model year.
    The 2001 Seville & Eldorado will change in to RWD given their competitive class.
    The Escalade should be impressive in it's next generation - but take nothing away from it now... compared to its rival - the Navigator - stacking up value per dollar of MSRP - the Escalade will get a fair market share. We can't keep one here at our dealership for more than 48 hours... People are impressed with the fit and finish.
  • patman47patman47 Member Posts: 1
    Glad to meet you Cadillacman. I have a '96 STS and simply love the car. I've put 78,000 on it already with the only problem being two burned out fog lamps; however, I am experiencing some oil loss (approx. 1 qt per 1500 mi) and will switch to Mobil 1 at 80,000. One thing, I'm sick and tired of hearing all the crap about how much better the E Models, 540's and Lexus' handle than the Caddy. I've owned a 420 and an XJ6 and wouldn't dream of giving up my Seville. Sure, rear wheel drive has the advantage in the dry, but I live in Seattle. Believe me, the Seville is much quicker in the rain!
  • mendorogermendoroger Member Posts: 1're truly a salesman. I am considering buying an Escalade myself...and find the difference in price above the Denali worth every penny. I worry about the service however. I would feel far more confident having the GMC guys handling service on my vehicle. By the way, what does the OnStar service cost annually after that first free year?
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